Government Eavesdropping

big soft moose said:
as I said earlier if you are not a terrorist or a criminal you have to have an unhealthy dose of paranoia to think that government are interested in your emails or phone calls - the fact that you can freely criticise them on a public forum without finding yourself disappeared demonstrates that the police state stuff is just errant cobblers



have you actually read either of these ? :banghead:

as I said earlier if you think Britain is police state go visit some of the garden spots of the world - North Korea would be a good start, or Myanmar , or Zimbabwe, or Iran to find out what the concept really means.
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In 1984 the state has become all powerful and invades every citizen's life even to the point where even a "wrong" thought is enough to get you jailed or worse.

In Kafka's "The Trial" a man Josef K is arrested by unknown agents of the government for a crime he is never informed of.
 
big soft moose said:
do you accept turnips , or do you fear an uprising of fen people taking control of the turnip exchange mechanism
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I'm not to worried about the fen people due to fact webbed extremities makes it damned hard to pull a trigger :p
 
BRASH said:
Who cares....
As stated, if yer doing nothing wrong there's nothing to worry about. It happens, you nor I will change it. Get over it.
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Like these people did?:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/04/hill-m04.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/05/10/ripa-m09.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/03/ahme-m26.html

http://allenbwest.com/2014/04/briti...publicly-repeating-churchills-comments-islam/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...-a-sin-warns-of-real-life-thought-police.html

http://reason.com/archives/2012/10/17/britains-high-tech-thought-police

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-do-away-with-this-insult-to-free-speech.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-gay-horse-jibe-is-absurd-says-Tatchell.html

EDIT:http://www.examiner.com/article/bri...reaten-to-seize-child-from-nationalist-mother

So a mother is a criminal now because she used to belong to an organisation the govt. doesn't like?

'
 
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And finally (because as far as I'm concerned I've said all i want) a very relevant quote:

“As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air – however slight – lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.”

- Justice William O Douglas


Goodnight all.
.
 
petersmart said:
...But we were also governed by men who, although they may have made mistakes were, for the most part, both honourable and honest - do you really think the governments of today can measure up to them?
...
.
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Sure, if you ignore Churchill's attitude and treatment of the working classes generally and miners specifically, he was a top notch guy! :ROFLMAO:

Don't get sucked into the rewriting of history as a black and white issue (us right-Germans wrong). The Russians were beating the Germans without any need for us to invade mainland Europe (also sick of the BBC describing it as the invasion of Europe, subscribing to the current view that we are optionally European?). The invasion just meant that we got to the negotiating table to ensure Western Europe didn't become part of the USSR. Setting the table nicely for the USA and USSR to posture in a Macho fashion for the next 30 odd years.
 
petersmart said:
So your argument is that those abuses of justice in the past makes it alright now?
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Nope, it was your argument how it was so much better in the past as per your OP ;)

And your so called abuses of justice...well cases like those are rarely straightforward...In my opinion you are seriously over simplifying a lot of this...and doing that based on newspaper articles I would not regard as a wise thing to do...A closed material procedure is there for a reason and the reason for it being closed material in the first place may not be obvious to everyone. So relying on some news paper articles is really not helpful.
 
petersmart said:
Like these people did?:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/04/hill-m04.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/05/10/ripa-m09.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/03/ahme-m26.html

http://allenbwest.com/2014/04/briti...publicly-repeating-churchills-comments-islam/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...-a-sin-warns-of-real-life-thought-police.html

http://reason.com/archives/2012/10/17/britains-high-tech-thought-police

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-do-away-with-this-insult-to-free-speech.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-gay-horse-jibe-is-absurd-says-Tatchell.html

EDIT:http://www.examiner.com/article/bri...reaten-to-seize-child-from-nationalist-mother

So a mother is a criminal now because she used to belong to an organisation the govt. doesn't like?

'
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man you go onto some weird websites...Is this becoming much of an obsession to you? Damn! And that last one is advertising and distributing some serious nasties like mackeeper....

Look where people work, people will make mistakes, the police is not immune to that....And there is always more than one side to any story....
 
Isn't everything I read in the press true then???o_O Shock horror! !

Leftie scaremongering.
 
big soft moose said:
the greater irony is that the reason we were able to get to D Day without losing well before that was the commitment and dedication of the government agencies responsible for national security - attacking them based on an article largely about what foreign governments are doing is naive at best and disingenous at worst.

If you arent a terorist or a criminal you have nothing to fear from this (at least in the way it is implemented in the UK) and anyone who fears the GCHQ is listen to them discussing shopping with their wife or going drinking with their mates is suffering from a high degree of paranoia
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Well said, Pete
Bananeyessss.gif
 
MWHCVT said:
If anyone would like to buy them I have some mk6 tin foil hats going for a song in the classifieds, drop me a PM if your interested :p
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You mean we've to record ourselves singing, in order to get one?
What is this, TP's Saturday Night Takeaway?
 
BRASH said:
Probably but the lefties is the worst;)
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I think they are the most hypocritical about....and it is quite sickening how quick they loose their 'principles' once they get into power and sign away even more powers....It just demonstrates that lot hasn't got a clue about the real world and how out of touch they are.....
 
dejongj said:
I think they are the most hypocritical about....and it is quite sickening how quick they loose their 'principles' once they get into power and sign away even more powers....It just demonstrates that lot hasn't got a clue about the real world and how out of touch they are.....
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This^^^^^^^
 
Hang on a sec. Has anybody - including the OP - actually read what Vodafone said? Here's an extract from the BBC version of the same story:
In most of the 29 countries where Vodafone has major operations, including the UK, law enforcement and intelligence agencies must have a warrant to listen to phone calls or look at text messages, emails or web chats.

The firm said it could not specify the countries that have a direct line into its networks, because those countries have laws prohibiting disclosure of surveillance methods.

In six out of the 29 countries, governments have a permanent link to monitor communications.
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And the Guardian piece the OP linked says:
In Albania, Egypt, Hungary, India, Malta, Qatar, Romania, South Africa and Turkey, it is unlawful to disclose any information related to wiretapping or interception of the content of phone calls and messages including whether such capabilities exist.
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I can't be bothered to work out the overlap between Vodafone's operations and the countries named by the Guardian. But it is clear that the UK government is NOT involved in large scale eavesdropping. So what exactly are we supposed to be appalled by?
 
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