Grand National - Bet or Boycott?

DemiLion said:
How very dare you forget about the sheep..
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Sheep SCHMEEEEP!!

thats what I say. I only care about particular animals that I decide to choose randomly, simply to cause debate. I prefer not to have rational arguments and reasons. :D
 
dod said:
Can you tell me why YOU think it's a problem.
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Thanks for asking. :)

The problem is not the Ginger McCanes of this world, I'm sure his ethics are exemplary. He HAS to be lilly white, if he isn't the media will jump on him like a ton of bricks.

The problem is the small time breeders who are machine gunning (as in breeding the next big winner maybe) and cross breeding every which way, to try and get to the big time. It turns over millions a year and the rabid need for that special winner is in detriment to the majority of the horse that are bred for the job.

So thats my problem with it. I'm getting it from all sides, but i don't care. It needs to be looked at and sorted. Trouble is it's a world wide problem and needs conviction from every country. That going to work then......

My mother inlaw breeds pugs. The kennel club through their legislation, demand that they have breathing problems and are afflicted with sores due to the folds in the skin. A breeder lobbied them to oust this and was ostracised from the kennel club.

Sooner or later there will be a doc on this, with breeders covering the lenses with their hands and saying f off. I will be more than happy to bump this thread :)
 
simon44 said:
The problem is the small time breeders who are machine gunning (as in breeding the next big winner maybe) and cross breeding every which way, to try and get to the big time.
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like i said earlier people taking up stud services and the amount of foals in the market has dropped significantly due to there being no buyers or anyone wanted the added expense of a foal. small time breeders do not have the cash to waste at the moment.
 
joescrivens said:
because thousands of healthy chickens, cows and pigs are being slaughtered every day for you to eat. Why don't you care about them?
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Thanks for asking. :)

I was veggie and when my kids were born, i wanted them to decide for themselves whether they wanted to eat meat. My daughter Gem loves chicken as does my other daughter Daisy, who also likes sausages and bacon when she visits her mates.

With this in mind, i make sure i eat free range chicken and i catch mackerel now and again. I don't eat any other meat.

I never eat caged hen eggs either. There is a farm near me and i buy my eggs from there.
 
simon44 said:
Thanks for asking. :)

I was veggie and when my kids were born, i wanted them to decide for themselves whether they wanted to eat meat. My daughter Gem loves chicken as does my other daughter Daisy, who also likes sausages and bacon when she visits her mates.

With this in mind, i make sure i eat free range chicken and i catch mackerel now and again. I don't eat any other meat.

I never eat caged hen eggs either. There is a farm near me and i buy my eggs from there.
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Thanks for replying :)

So you eat chicken that is bred simply for eating - healthy chickens that could live their whole life laying eggs. Why so cruel, this over breeding of chickens that you eat needs to stop!!!! Wouldn't you agree?
 
simon44 said:
Thanks for asking. :)

The problem is not the Ginger McCanes of this world, I'm sure his ethics are exemplary. He HAS to be lilly white, if he isn't the media will jump on him like a ton of bricks.

The problem is the small time breeders who are machine gunning (as in breeding the next big winner maybe) and cross breeding every which way, to try and get to the big time. It turns over millions a year and the rabid need for that special winner is in detriment to the majority of the horse that are bred for the job.

So thats my problem with it. I'm getting it from all sides, but i don't care. It needs to be looked at and sorted. Trouble is it's a world wide problem and needs conviction from every country. That going to work then......

My mother inlaw breeds pugs. The kennel club through their legislation, demand that they have breathing problems and are afflicted with sores due to the folds in the skin. A breeder lobbied them to oust this and was ostracised from the kennel club.

Sooner or later there will be a doc on this, with breeders covering the lenses with their hands and saying f off. I will be more than happy to bump this thread :)
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Go and show me the document from the Kennel club stating that Pugs should have "breathing problems and are afflicted with sores due to the folds in the skin." Prove that that's one of the requirements of the "breed standard".
 
simon44 said:
It's against forum rules to go too far ot.

you will ban me.
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I certainly won't, I'm in the thread and won't carry out any moderation in it. I'm also just as likely to be modded by any of the team as anyone else :)
 
dod said:
I certainly won't, I'm in the thread and won't carry out any moderation in it. I'm also just as likely to be modded by any of the team as anyone else :)
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Cool ok,

I did mean to call you Bod then :)
 
Urgh so if you eat meat you don't have a right to object to healthy animals not bred for eating being killed when they aren't up to racing? What a load of crap. Vegetables are what food eats! I'm out.
 
rssmrry said:
Urgh so if you eat meat you don't have a right to object to healthy animals not bred for eating being killed when they aren't up to racing? What a load of crap. Vegetables are what food eats! I'm out.
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whats the answer then?

you have to breed horses to find a racer, not all foals will be suited to racing, horse rehoming as i said earlier isnt really an option at the moment.
 
I don't understand why some of you guys seem to have difficulty grasping the concept that not everyone agrees with the exploitation of animals as commodities. I don't need facts and figures to back up my personal view that I don't like the way humans casually use animals for entertainment and financial gain with little regard to their long term welfare.

I remember bringing this subject up once before in another thread on this forum and was ridiculed for it then too. It seems odd that a thread has been posted here asking a question, and those who choose the boycott view seem to be regarded as wrong, regardless of the large element that personal views play in it.
 
neil_g said:
whats the answer then?

you have to breed horses to find a racer, not all foals will be suited to racing, horse rehoming as i said earlier isnt really an option at the moment.
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ban fun
 
onona said:
I don't understand why some of you guys seem to have difficulty grasping the concept that not everyone agrees with the exploitation of animals as commodities. I don't need facts and figures to back up my personal view that I don't like the way humans casually use animals for entertainment and financial gain with little regard to their long term welfare.

I remember bringing this subject up once before in another thread on this forum and was ridiculed for it then too. It seems odd that a thread has been posted here asking a question, and those who choose the boycott view seem to be regarded as wrong, regardless of the large element that personal views play in it.
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are you vegetarian also?
 
simon44 said:
Thanks for asking. :)

The problem is not the Ginger McCanes of this world, I'm sure his ethics are exemplary. He HAS to be lilly white, if he isn't the media will jump on him like a ton of bricks.

The problem is the small time breeders who are machine gunning (as in breeding the next big winner maybe) and cross breeding every which way, to try and get to the big time. It turns over millions a year and the rabid need for that special winner is in detriment to the majority of the horse that are bred for the job.

So thats my problem with it. I'm getting it from all sides, but i don't care. It needs to be looked at and sorted. Trouble is it's a world wide problem and needs conviction from every country. That going to work then......

My mother inlaw breeds pugs. The kennel club through their legislation, demand that they have breathing problems and are afflicted with sores due to the folds in the skin. A breeder lobbied them to oust this and was ostracised from the kennel club.

Sooner or later there will be a doc on this, with breeders covering the lenses with their hands and saying f off. I will be more than happy to bump this thread :)
Click to expand...

I'm still looking for an answer to the pug question, which I think you'll struggle with, and are therefore in real jeapardy of being sued by the Kennel Club for libel. But never mind that just now...................

You took the time to make a point so here's my opinion on the rest of it.

So what?!

Like it or not we have advanced (and I just know that you'll come back with "that's debatable") to a stage where we exert control over animals, be it for food, companionship or ultimately for entertainment. I do not personally believe that animals have the same rights as humans, which is not to say that they should have no rights. You can agree or disagree with that but please don't ram it down my throat that we shouldn't just because it upsets your sensitivities.

You demonstrate in your post however that you don't really know what you're talking about.

I've never heard the term "Machine gunning" but assume it's a controversial term for repeated breeding? If so are you aware that that occurs naturally in the wild? Cross breeding isn't generally a bad thing, perhaps you mean in-breeding?

The rest of your argument, and your supporting links, resort to little more than dramatic hyperbole.
 
onona said:
I don't understand why some of you guys seem to have difficulty grasping the concept that not everyone agrees with the exploitation of animals as commodities. I don't need facts and figures to back up my personal view that I don't like the way humans casually use animals for entertainment and financial gain with little regard to their long term welfare.

I remember bringing this subject up once before in another thread on this forum and was ridiculed for it then too. It seems odd that a thread has been posted here asking a question, and those who choose the boycott view seem to be regarded as wrong, regardless of the large element that personal views play in it.
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and why do you have difficulty grasping the concept that some of us don't have the same issue?
 
onona said:
I don't understand why some of you guys seem to have difficulty grasping the concept that not everyone agrees with the exploitation of animals as commodities. I don't need facts and figures to back up my personal view that I don't like the way humans casually use animals for entertainment and financial gain with little regard to their long term welfare.

I remember bringing this subject up once before in another thread on this forum and was ridiculed for it then too. It seems odd that a thread has been posted here asking a question, and those who choose the boycott view seem to be regarded as wrong, regardless of the large element that personal views play in it.
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the problem is the amount of opinion vs fact. and as marc said previously there are a few horsey people kicking around on here so the rubbish statements are quickly picked up on.
 
There's a difference between breeding animals to slaughter for food (which provides nutrition for us) and killing animals not up to entertaining us. Yes, we can get nutrition other ways but we are meat eaters. The idea that people who eat meat are in some way barred from having an opinion against unnecessary slaughter of animals is absurd. Some of the crap in this thread is unreal.

"You're not a veggie so your opinion isn't valid" seems to be a popular trump card played on this thread. Now where's the rolleyes smiley?
 
onona said:
What are you talking about, dod? Where did I say that anyone with a view different to mine is being stupid, or is misinformed, or is wrong?
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Sorry, but you're going to have to show me where I said that :thinking::thinking:
 
neil_g said:
the problem is the amount of opinion vs fact. and as marc said previously there are a few horsey people kicking around on here so the rubbish statements are quickly picked up on.
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No, the problem is that Simon is being ridiculed because he has a view that differs from the majority. As I said before, your personal views don't necessarily need to be backed up by facts and figures; if you like horse racing and have no issue with what goes on behind the scenes, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that the people who do have a problem with the industry are idiots, which how Simon appears to be getting treated here.

And I've seen this happen again and again here, especially in this off topic section. It seems those who hold minority or unpopular views are destined to be bashed by a group of regular posters. A debate doesn't have to devolve into a bashfest, you know.
 
onona said:
No, the problem is that Simon is being ridiculed because he has a view that differs from the majority. As I said before, your personal views don't necessarily need to be backed up by facts and figures; if you like horse racing and have no issue with what goes on behind the scenes, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that the people who do have a problem with the industry are idiots, which how Simon appears to be getting treated here.

And I've seen this happen again and again here, especially in this off topic section. It seems those who hold minority or unpopular views are destined to be bashed by a group of regular posters. A debate doesn't have to devolve into a bashfest, you know.
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simon is stating several "facts" and then not responding to follow up questions or counter claims, you can see why people are getting slightly short with him to be honest.
 
rssmrry said:
There's a difference between breeding animals to slaughter for food (which provides nutrition for us) and killing animals not up to entertaining us. Yes, we can get nutrition other ways but we are meat eaters. The idea that people who eat meat are in some way barred from having an opinion against unnecessary slaughter of animals is absurd. Some of the crap in this thread is unreal.

"You're not a veggie so your opinion isn't valid" seems to be a popular trump card played on this thread. Now where's the rolleyes smiley?
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If we ate horse meat problem solved! :D
 
onona said:
Where did I say you personally were responsible?
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Have I entered some sort of time warp here? :thinking::cautious:

You ask me what I'm talking about and then ask me to show where I said "anyone with a view different to mine is being stupid, or is misinformed, or is wrong" ???

If I'm misunderstanding your question then I'm sorry, but I'm just a pore ole country boy.
 
onona said:
But that doesn't mean that the people who do have a problem with the industry are idiots, which how Simon appears to be getting treated here.
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huh?

What does that even mean? This doesn't make sense. I do hate it when people don't have the decency to make sure their posts make sense.
 
onona said:
No, the problem is that Simon is being ridiculed because he has a view that differs from the majority. As I said before, your personal views don't necessarily need to be backed up by facts and figures; if you like horse racing and have no issue with what goes on behind the scenes, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that the people who do have a problem with the industry are idiots, which how Simon appears to be getting treated here.

And I've seen this happen again and again here, especially in this off topic section. It seems those who hold minority or unpopular views are destined to be bashed by a group of regular posters. A debate doesn't have to devolve into a bashfest, you know.
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Spot on. And I might dare to argue that the population of this forum is not indicative of the UK as a whole. But I can't be arsed to back that up so I'll just put it out there as my opinion. But I doubt the majority of the people in the uk (a vast number of which have pets and spend a small fortune keeping healthy and happy) would be happy with what's going on behind the scenes in horse racing.
 
rssmrry said:
There's a difference between breeding animals to slaughter for food (which provides nutrition for us) and killing animals not up to entertaining us.
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is there? what is the difference?

Breeding animals for human use is what it is. We're breeding them for our use, whether that use is to eat intitally or entertain first and then eat is irrelevant.
 
neil_g said:
simon is stating several "facts" and then not responding to follow up questions or counter claims, you can see why people are getting slightly short with him to be honest.
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The latest I see is he's posted a video that at least one person doesn't want to bother watching. Like I said, it's not just this thread; I've seen this happen a number of times now and it's quite tiresome. Honestly, I think the reason he's taking flack is because people don't like his views, not because he's not quoting sources. This feeling is further reinforced by the suggestion a page or so back that he's somehow not entitled to his views if he eats meat, which is frankly a bit absurd. It's this constant stream of ad hominem tactics which really undermines any constructive discussion.

Why can't people just agree to disagree? The world would be a pretty boring place if we all held the same views.
 
joescrivens said:
huh?

What does that even mean? This doesn't make sense. I do hate it when people don't have the decency to make sure their posts make sense.
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You mean you hadn't spotted the way he has been vilified, his opinion belittled because he doesn't know anyone in the business? Come now don't play dumb, it's insulting!
 
simon44 said:
well i will let you watch it in your own time. Then you can say you were wrong.
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avoiding the answer again.

Anyway, here's the kennel club breed standard for the pug

I don't see any reference to compulsory sores or breathing problems?
 
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