Grey imports

I

Im Bald Ok

Messages
588
Name
Jason
Edit My Images
Yes
I'm potentially in the market for an upgrade from my 7D to a 6D.

I understand that buying a UK model means you can get your camera repaired here in the UK under warrantee/take it back to the shop etc (unless you buy from Jessops/Jacobs or any other UK company that goes bust). However, if for example you buy from DigitalRev, they give you a years warrantee where all you do is send it off to their UK address for repair.

Buying a grey import from Panamoz, for example, is still made by Canon, it still does the same thing, you still get a warrantee for a year and is far cheaper than here in the UK. My understanding is that after the warrantee is up, whether it's a UK model or grey you're still in the same boat?

I see in the classifieds section people are much more inclined to pay more for out of warrantee UK models than greys. Why? Surely they do the same thing. If they break you are no better off with a broken UK model? You've just payed more for the same item?

I imagine this has been covered many times but I couldn't find any answers in the search bar.

Why should I buy a UK 6D over an import? I don't see any reason not to buy an import. Am I missing something?
 
Im Bald Ok said:
I'm potentially in the market for an upgrade from my 7D to a 6D.

I understand that buying a UK model means you can get your camera repaired here in the UK under warrantee/take it back to the shop etc (unless you buy from Jessops/Jacobs or any other UK company that goes bust). However, if for example you buy from DigitalRev, they give you a years warrantee where all you do is send it off to their UK address for repair.

Buying a grey import from Panamoz, for example, is still made by Canon, it still does the same thing, you still get a warrantee for a year and is far cheaper than here in the UK. My understanding is that after the warrantee is up, whether it's a UK model or grey you're still in the same boat?

I see in the classifieds section people are much more inclined to pay more for out of warrantee UK models than greys. Why? Surely they do the same thing. If they break you are no better off with a broken UK model? You've just payed more for the same item?

I imagine this has been covered many times but I couldn't find any answers in the search bar.

Why should I buy a UK 6D over an import? I don't see any reason not to buy an import. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

One thing you may want to consider is your potential liability to pay VAT and import duty etc on a grey import if purchased from abroad.
 
Im Bald Ok said:
Why should I buy a UK 6D over an import? I don't see any reason not to buy an import. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Yup. A rather healthy portion of tax that needs to be paid to make the camera a legal import! :)
 
Depends where its imported from. EU you're liable for the tax in the country its sold from not UK tax.
 
Panamoz and DigitalRev for example, the price you pay is inclusive of import fees etc. Surely It's their responsibility to be paying that?
 
Im Bald Ok said:
Panamoz and DigitalRev for example, the price you pay is inclusive of import fees etc. Surely It's their responsibility to be paying that?
Click to expand...

I don't think it would be DR or Panamoz that would ultimately be deciding what tax etc you have to pay :)

As I understand it, you would be the importer so you are liable.
 
Last edited:
Its got the be said, this forum has an unhealthy obsession with tax collection...
 
received my 7d from Panamoz ordered Sunday morning delivered Thursday morning with nothing extra to pay
 
Georges said:
many discussions. one of them http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=289147
and lists many reasons. I prefer a UK where can bang on their doors if something happens, cheap to return an item, Canon, Nikon and others will honour the item better etc. more warranty fro UK distributor. YMMV.
Click to expand...

from experience I would disagree with this one, I bought my canon 50d from a Uk shop,not mail order, a physical shop,and it packed up within a week so I took it back and got it exchanged but the shop assistant told me that canon will replace a faulty item up to 3 months old and after that they will repair it,fair enough I got it sorted on the day but compare that with the warranty from Panamoz who for a small fee (£28 in the case of the op's 6D)send you a replacement no questions up to a year after purchase.
 
chris954 said:
from experience I would disagree with this one, I bought my canon 50d from a Uk shop,not mail order, a physical shop,and it packed up within a week so I took it back and got it exchanged but the shop assistant told me that canon will replace a faulty item up to 3 months old and after that they will repair it,fair enough I got it sorted on the day but compare that with the warranty from Panamoz who for a small fee (£28 in the case of the op's 6D)send you a replacement no questions up to a year after purchase.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and sending to a UK (London) address so no posting all the way to Hong Kong or anything!

The amount of 'tax lovers' on here really annoys me.
 
If i was in the market for a grey my question would be will canon repair a grey import that's out of warranty. I seem to remember reading something about one of the major manufacturers not doing this.

I've fallen foul of the HMRC. took 9 months to get rid of them. So I guess you take your chances. Probably 99.9 % won't have any issues at all. I'd be the 0.1%
 
Gaz J said:
If i was in the market for a grey my question would be will canon repair a grey import that's out of warranty. I seem to remember reading something about one of the major manufacturers not doing this.

I've fallen foul of the HMRC. took 9 months to get rid of them. So I guess you take your chances. Probably 99.9 % won't have any issues at all. I'd be the 0.1%
Click to expand...

Yes I'd say that is the case.

Just to ass if it is the shipping company that has been charged with collecting the HMRC stuff it doesn't always happen at time of delivery apparently. I've read stuff where people have been invoiced at a later date, weeks and months down the line apparently.

I think that may only be if it has been flagged by customs as it came in though, in which case you would probably know about it.
 
Last edited:
It's funny how many people on here openly talk about dodging tax, especially considering the overall mood of the country towards tax dodgers at the moment.

It doesn't seem very wise to me.
 
Original Poster said:
The amount of 'tax lovers' on here really annoys me.
Click to expand...
I doubt anyone loves paying tax. But I can understand people being squeamish about breaking the law - particularly those in professions where a rap for tax evasion could be embarassing (civil servants, doctors, police etc) or career-ending (accountants, tax advisors, lawyers).
 
ZoneV said:
It's funny how many people on here openly talk about dodging tax, especially considering the overall mood of the country towards tax dodgers at the moment.

It doesn't seem very wise to me.
Click to expand...

It's also against the forum rules! :rules:
 
swampy said:
received my 7d from Panamoz ordered Sunday morning delivered Thursday morning with nothing extra to pay
Click to expand...

Just out of interest Allan, what was it described as on the customs declaration?


Heather
 
Original Poster said:
Exactly, and sending to a UK (London) address so no posting all the way to Hong Kong or anything!

The amount of 'tax lovers' on here really annoys me.
Click to expand...

...and the number of people on here purposefully breaking the law annoys me...

Go figure!
 
Did there used to be a number to report suspected tax dodgers? Or was that just for benefit fraud?
 
So, illegal appears to be the main reason why not to go grey! I'll go searching for the cheapest UK seller.
 
You don't get something for nothing in this world, you always pay in the end.

People in Greece avoided Tax, paying a heavy price now.
 
A grey market or gray market, also known as parallel market,[1] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer.

As suggested by this definition, grey market trading is not illegal, just is not what the manufacturer would like. Hence the issue of warranties potentially being dishonoured by the manufacturer in a grey market transaction.

The grey market transaction becomes illegal when tax is evaded.
 
Not sure if I should have credited definition to Wikipedia, so, there you go, I have.
 
You could also buy from the UK and get a good deal from Hdew Cameras compared to most other high street shop, if there is any left. They have it at £1419 including a 3 year warranty http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/new-canon-6d-body-only-1167-p.asp and the camera is covered by Canon UK. I've bought around £5K worth of kit from them and had great service from them every time.

I've bought a few items from Panamoz in the past, and likewise, I've had great service from them as well. Every time I've never had to pay any more than the face price on the website and I've even had the packages say camera accessories on them so there's been no attempt to dodge the duties on them. Panamoz will refund any money claimed in duty anyway so you don't really have a problem. I can also vouch for their warranty service too, I had a Sigma 150-500 )S lens go down after 11 months and claimed on the warranty. After only 11 days after I'd first contacted them I had a brand new lens arrive with another warranty card for a year. Excellent service overall and it's very likely I will be buying from them again in the future.
 
DemiLion said:
By evading tax.
Click to expand...

And the like of DigitalRev state that they charge you a figure to cover the cost of import as part of your purchase, I don't have anything but faith that they do actually do that until such time that I see evidence that they do not, can you provide proof that they do not make the payment that they say they do????
 
MWHCVT said:
And the like of DigitalRev state that they charge you a figure to cover the cost of import as part of your purchase, I don't have anything but faith that they do actually do that until such time that I see evidence that they do not, can you provide proof that they do not make the payment that they say they do????
Click to expand...

It is the importer (customer) that is responsible for the payment of VAT and Customs Duty (if applicable) but there are some regions, specifically Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand and the Channel Islands where a Memorandum of Understanding exists.

This means that some traders are able to charge, collect and pay VAT to HMRC for goods purchased by mail order. These traders are issued with a unique authorisation number which must be shown on packaging (or customs declaration) and should also show "Import VAT prepaid".

If any of the companies mentioned above are using this method then it should be easy to verify from the packaging received. If customs declarations are labelled as "gifts" or undervalued then it is fairly obvious what is happening.

A guarantee that VAT will be paid "if caught" (my words) in the absence of the MoU, does not constitute a tax payment regime.
 
MWHCVT said:
And the like of DigitalRev state that they charge you a figure to cover the cost of import as part of your purchase, I don't have anything but faith that they do actually do that until such time that I see evidence that they do not, can you provide proof that they do not make the payment that they say they do????
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly though the wording in the DR T&Cs puts the onus directly onto the purchaser to pay relevant taxes duties etc. The mouseover feature contradicted the T&Cs

Last time I checked, the price they charge to cover 'import handling' or whatever they call it does not go anywhere near covering the taxes that are collectable on the items.
 
One thing that I've always wondered is , what if you emigrate from say China to the UK . Do you pay Vat on everything you bring in ? Also would Canon / NIKON UK carry out repairs for you even if you pay ? I'm sure that if for instance I imported a new car from France or even America and it went wrong a warranty claim in the uk would be honoured .
 
Spuff said:
It is the importer (customer) that is responsible for the payment of VAT and Customs Duty (if applicable) but there are some regions, specifically Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand and the Channel Islands where a Memorandum of Understanding exists.

This means that some traders are able to charge, collect and pay VAT to HMRC for goods purchased by mail order. These traders are issued with a unique authorisation number which must be shown on packaging (or customs declaration) and should also show "Import VAT prepaid".

If any of the companies mentioned above are using this method then it should be easy to verify from the packaging received. If customs declarations are labelled as "gifts" or undervalued then it is fairly obvious what is happening.

A guarantee that VAT will be paid "if caught" (my words) in the absence of the MoU, does not constitute a tax payment regime.
Click to expand...

I think these have been seriously lacking from a few of these Hong Kong companies :)
 
MWHCVT said:
And the like of DigitalRev state that they charge you a figure to cover the cost of import as part of your purchase, I don't have anything but faith that they do actually do that until such time that I see evidence that they do not, can you provide proof that they do not make the payment that they say they do????
Click to expand...

Yup. I can read their Terms & Conditions properly without trying to convince myself that the import is legitimate.

I'd love to know how DR convert their £30(ish) cover charge into a full 20% VAT payment - unless they're paying it out of their own kindness of course.
 
With Digital Rev, the Tax is billed directly to them. As I understand, they get away with most of their imports being untaxed. They add a small amount onto their price that reflects the 'average' number of times they are caught out, so that you never have to pay the full-whack
 
One thing that I've always wondered is , what if you emigrate from say China to the UK . Do you pay Vat on everything you bring in ?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that if the said Camera or gear was less than two years old (proof of purchase is required) one would have to pay import duty.

That is the rule which applied when I was serving in the Army many moons ago.

I got stung back in 65 when I arrived back in UK from Singapore with a Yasheka which was less than a year old. i could not afford to pay the duty so the Camera was impounded.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top