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The VAT receipt HDEW give you isn't valid as far as HMRC rules go though as the Vat Number doesn't match the name of the company on the invoice, it's the Vat No for their parent/partner company
Grey Vs Used. Am I missing something?
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The VAT receipt HDEW give you isn't valid as far as HMRC rules go though as the Vat Number doesn't match the name of the company on the invoice, it's the Vat No for their parent/partner company
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That's the difference between evasion (failing to pay due tax) and avoidance (exploiting loopholes so you pay less tax, like Amazon's clever lawyers). Only evasion is illegal.
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But sometimes the tax man gets fed up with a trick and parliament agrees so something gets done about it: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ax-avoidance-loan-schemes-and-the-loan-charge
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Which usually just illustrates their incompetence, look no further than IR35. So poorly thought out it costs more to administrate than it brings in and adds needless complexity for companies and workers.
Does anyone here really worry about how they might change the law in the future? We have the bad decisions they're making in the present to contend with like MTD.
West Camera
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Ah, yes. Moral high ground is always a good issue to discuss. But, whose moral high ground is better is the issue isn't it?I did once hear someone on the radio say that "only the immoral don't want to discuss morality"...
Several years ago I bought two Canon branded batteries through EBay from a shop in New Jersey. I live in California. It was a good deal. The two batteries cost the same as one everywhere else. A year later I got a letter from the shop informing me that the batteries were found to be counterfit, and instructed me to throw them away. The letter also stated that the shop was selling legitimate batteries at a fine price. I did a little research and found something interesting. For one this was the period where lithium batteries were exploding and causing home fires. Also, at this time Canon was conducting an investigation of sellers selling Canon grey market products in Canon branded retail stores. Those caught either were threatened with law suits by Canon or were told to warn customers of the grey market items that had been purchased at wholesale that their purchases at retail were counterfit. Was that a lie? You bet it was. Grey market items are not counterfit. They are simply grey market items. So who has the high ground here? Canon? Not one bit. They were lying. And, as an incentive to Canon retailers Canon was supporting them with the opportunity to make more sales. I kept the batteries. Did not buy new ones. And, have been very pleased with my 'immoral' purchase. I have no qualms about getting the best product at the cheapest price. As for VAT, we in the 'States don't have that burden placed on us my our 'moral' government. You are dancing to a tune that someone else has placed upon you. What do you 'owe' that? Do you comply with every law? When you mistakenly commit a traffic violation when driving your car do you issue yourself a citation and remit the bail to the court? Probably not. So, let's get real about 'moral' high ground. It is only an issue when it is raised to support a 'position'.
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That's your opinion but other opinions exist.
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I was in the IT industry for more than 35 years until I retired about 5 years ago. I never found IR35 a problem, possibly because I paid my tax and NI on the dot and didn't indulge in the sort of practices that show up on the inspectors' reports.
I don't get the dislike of Make Tax Digital. It seems to me that it's a good idea. If you're already using an accounting package just add the MTD module and if you're not then it's a really good reason to get one because it'll make your life easier.
Of course HMRC make mistakes just like everyone else but closing loop holes and catching cheats is a necessary part of their work.
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I think you're conflating things here a bit, buying grey is not immoral, you've just imported something as thousands of people and businesses do every day.
The moral bit comes in when people evade the taxes they're required by law to pay, some see it as minor offense like littering and some see it as robbing the NHS or whatever other sacred cow. No one wants to pay through the nose for equipment but the real reason this happens is because of the savings, how easy it is and the low risk of facing any consequences.
I personally don't see much difference between someone wanting to avoid VAT that's due on purchases versus wanting to be paid in cash so you can avoid declaring it, just there's a much better chance of getting caught doing the latter.
You have state level sales tax which in practical terms for the consumer is more or less the same thing no?
That's a bit over the top isn't it? Don't most North Americans have to deal with IRS every year?
Actually I've always liked how prices in NA don't include tax, I viewed it as a better way of making you aware of the actual costs more so than in the UK where we only see the final price including VAT but if we're criticising how many hoops you have to jump through things seem simpler over here.
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I wasn't talking about your virtue, I was talking about the cost of a badly thought out change to the tax system which has actually taken more money from government, which will keep happening when you approach the problem as looking for cheats rather than does this actually make sense.
If you look to end results, I can tell you how IR35 has cost both people and the government, can you tell us about the actual benefits?
It's added complexity and cost to achieve absolutely nothing. How is it a good idea?
MTD is idiotic, they've taken an established system and added in extra layers of complexity for exactly the same outcome. They've also done this without preparing a system for people so everyone is forced to go out and buy software from private companies, it's akin to making it a requirement to pay Halfords before you're allowed to drive your car on the road.
If that was the true intention we'd have a much simpler tax code.
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Nor was I. My point is that it's easy to comply with the rules but I rather think you knew that.
That's not how I see it but then I'm on the side lines these days and only have to do my tax report once a year. I accept others may see it differently.
You have to pay whoever does your MOT inspection before you drive your car on the road. What's the difference?
If we had a simpler tax code everyone would howl with anger about whatever was left out of the current one. Face it. If you don't want to pay your fair share, nothing will ever please you.
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You made it all about you, if you have no problem with it then it must be a good thing. I raised the point it's done more harm than good yet you don't bother to actually address that point.
Again you're not addressing the point raised, how does MTD benefit anyone? You still have to get all the figures right, the major difference at the moment is you have less control on the final figures submitted and you've had to pay for new software so you can send in those figures.
Why are we paying third parties for something the government could and should have provided itself? The MOT comparison isn't quite right because you're the one doing the actual checking, it's like having to buy a license to do a MOT yourself when you already were doing every step except buying that license from a private company which had no part of the process before.
Which would be fine if there was something being gained but as I've already explained we're producing the exact same outcome but just forced extra steps and costs. Could you clarify how things are improved by these changes?
You didn't understand what was being talked about with a margin scheme either, where have I suggested anyone shouldn't pay their 'fare share'?
If you're not going to try and understand what's being talked about perhaps you shouldn't leap to condemn people? Do us all a favour and get off your moral high horse.
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Pound Coin
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MTD is idiotic. Another layer of cost on small businesses. The accounts package I purchased won’t do it, so I’d have to go subscription.
The next step is apparently, to make Corporation Tax digital too, monthly, I think. So there goes a bit of cash flow.
Why don’t the pillocks go after Amazon and Apple? Instead of making running a small business more expensive. And tougher.
The next step is apparently, to make Corporation Tax digital too, monthly, I think. So there goes a bit of cash flow.
Why don’t the pillocks go after Amazon and Apple? Instead of making running a small business more expensive. And tougher.
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I rather think that anyone who disagrees with you is (a) wrong and (b) your enemy. It's one way to look at the world but not one that I find attractive so I'll ignore your postings from now on.
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Again you didn't bother to address any of the points raised, so it's not really a case of agreement or disagreement when you're just looking for excuses to give others sermons.
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This seems rather an odd story. If the shop was claiming they had sold you counterfeit batteries, then surely they owe you a refund or replacement? When B&H apparently allowed some actual counterfeit batteries into their supply chain earlier this year, they offered free replacements. Grey market does not mean fake, of course, though it seems likely that B&H didn't get their dubious batteries from an official source, and there are plenty of counterfeits out there - any suspiciously cheap battery on ebay is probably not genuine.
Earlier in the thread, you mentioned buying some gear that you thought might be 'hot'. I'd assumed you were joking, and responded accordingly, but now I'm beginning to wonder - did you actually suspect it was stolen?
By 'dancing to a tune someone else has placed on you', do you mean 'obeying the laws passed by your democratically elected legislature?'. I believe California has a sales tax, which you presumably pay, and I imagine you are honest when you fill out your IRS forms.
West Camera
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As has been mentioned - everyone has their own opinion and experience. You in the UK may not recall American colonial history. The American revolution was fought over this very thing. Most Americans (even though we are an 'empire nation') believe the best government is one that governs least. So to many government is a burden placed on our backs. As for taxes not many feel the opportunity to pay them is a blessing. Regards VAT, there are many forms or degrees it takes in the United States, and three states - Montana, Oregon, and New Hampshire prohibit all its forms at any level of government within the State's boundaries. So just because we have 'democratically' elected government at different levels does not mean we easily or willingly comply to the necessary evil that it is. Too many times it has been reported in our 'free' press what foolish or corrupt things government manages to waste the peoples' tax money on. So, many feel it is not a test of patriotism to pay taxes to such government. But, then we are not the socialist based society many across the Atlantic are. There, the many who receive such great benefit and subsidy probably feel much different about their governments and the taxes paid to them. Not so, here.
Maybe now we should get back to the original issue here rather than going on about its moral perspective or tax issue. I think I have made myself clear about what my opinion is of the role of each of these in the decision whether to buy grey market products. They would play no role in the decision for me. I can go about 100 miles south from my home to across the Mexican border and buy all the grey market stuff I like, and bring it home with me. I really see no difference in the Canon cameras bought that way compared to those bought at a store just down the block from where I live. This is because there is no difference. It is just government red tape getting in the way. Government interests joining hands with business interests to promote their interests at my expense. The fundamental difference between what you prioritize and what I prioritize is that you place these interests before your own, and we Americans do not.
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So why do you have such a gigantic government? You can talk all you want about your freedoms but when you've got crap like civil forfeiture happily embraced it rings a tad hollow.
There isn't a difference unless you care about warranty support, some people may reasonably decide they want the benefit of local support or they may not, everyone is free to decide if this matters to them or not.
I'm assuming you don't face import taxes on those items which is fine but that's different from the UK where you are legally required to do so, there's no point conflating two different situations unless you can change the law.
Why on earth are you turning this into an us and them argument? It seems nonsensical to only talk about one set of taxes as if that confers some special status on your country versus another especially when we're talking about circumstances which are relevant to the UK specifically.
I am a little curious to know what you think of all those tariffs you're going to deal with soon though.
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I have,
And if I sold items for less than anyone else, the supplier would refuse to supply me until I put my price back up.
This happened with more than one supplier.
There would be no written correspondence regarding my account being on stop, and I wasn't rich enough to take them on, so had to comply or didn't get the stock.
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You have Sales tax - different rules in every state and advertise prices without tax to make pricing unclear.
I'll stick with VAT
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It seems odd a lot of Americans are so insular and stick to a Small Government mantra without thinking through the consequences - who you are in the world and who you want to be.
The greatest thing the Americans have done for the world is space exploration - it has benefitted both the US and the rest of humanity in myriad ways - for this you should have pride rather than a belief that your government spent billions for no immediate gain.
OTOH your small minded and inward looking politicians are a subject of international ridicule whilst promoting the 'greatness' of something they're actually diminishing.
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You need to view a system of government as a whole - you can't cherry pick, it's not to say one is better than the other (US / UK) but you can't expect to not pay the bills for the services that are available - it's just cash in / out at the end of the day. Could both be 'managed' better - for sure, are there some aspects I'd rather were different? Again yes, but I understand the obligation on me to pay my fair share to get the benefits the other side when I and if need them.
Baring some horrendous medical needs I'm as yet unaware of, I like many in the UK will almost certainly get out less than we put in - and I'm okay with that. I get annoyed at times at how inefficiently the system is operated, and I get annoyed at times on how some people abuse it, but I will do my best to change that through the legal means available to me.
Your last sentence, and the state of healthcare in the US set the context to sum it up nicely for me.
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Yes.
I've worked with a few Americans over the years and most of them appeared to prefer living in Britain because as one put it: "You have eccentrics; we have nutjobs".
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I looks as though this thread is turning into a “political debate”. I was always told by my parents never to discuss “Politics or religion” as they invariably turn into slanging matches.
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Should we add grey imports to that list
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TheBigYin
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worst decision ever made on this forum was to allow the discussion of these two topics. I said it at the point it was mooted, and I've said it ever since.
Sadly, the genie's now out of the bottle, and we already know who the arseholes are now, so even if we banned it again, it'd not work unless we also had a "night of the long knives" and banned everyone who's had a few holidays for their behaviour on those scores.... But it's tempting, oh so tempting...
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RAW v jpeg
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Art
sphexx
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Not really, I think you are referring to ‘no taxation without representation’ which is/was a pretty fair point but you do have representation now so shouldn’t you pay your taxes?
(Of course that wasn’t entirely what the Civil War between the American ‘English’ and the British ‘English’ was even mostly about. A lot of it was the UK government preventing westward expansion into ‘Indian’ lands, and we know how that worked out
).Canon nikon