Hardest wedding ceremony ever!!

tom king said:
Maybe just me ? But the first thing I would have done would have been to completely ignore the Registrar.
You get on with your job I'll get on with mine,they have no juristriction over photographers it is merely courtesy
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And when they stop mid service and say to the client "I'm sorry but your photographer is disturbing this legal process , could you please ask him to stop" you do what exactly ? - defying the registrar / celebrant is possibly the most ridiculous recomendation ive seen on here.
 
I have nothing to add with regard to the technical difficulties you faced. If i were the bride on this occasion I'd have been delighted with your images. The whole affair looks out of the ordinary anyway, so quirky pics just add to that. Bride in a top hat, groom with his dreadlocks neatly pony tailed for the occasion, guests wearing morning dress with added Stetson .... What's not to love??!!! Well done. Great result.

Eta ... God forbid i ever get married again but if I do, I'll be using these shots as a reference .....
 
Yikes, that window really did you no favours. I suppose the best thing to have done would be to either use a graduated filter for some of the shots, or under-expose a little and then in your raw editor add in a digital graduated exposure later on. It's inevitable that this would happen though with the window being where it is and the brightness of it. I think insisting on a remote flash put right against the wall with a diffuser on it for fill or standing on the other side would be the ideal solution in this situation.

This is the kind of situation that really makes me not envy wedding togs. You guys have an unenviable and thankless job that people never appreciate how hard it is! This is exactly the kind of issue that makes me turn down every request for this kind of stuff with a friendly but firm no!
 
It just occurs to me that a remote fired camera placed discreetly on the other side may have also helped you, though it leaves so much to chance that it may not have been a worthwhile option even if it is doable.
 
I feel your pain. I did one on Saturday, pouring with rain and they where getting married in the town hall. Lovely grounds, but driving wind and rain put paid to outside shots. Inside, the caretaker who had the run of the place, refused to open the locked doors which led onto a beautiful staircase. He refused the wedding party use of confetti as the cleaners weren't in, the lights in the hall where broken due to the electrics shorting because of the storms, my flashes where playing up as they had a soaking after shooting the best man and groom outside with umbrellas, you name it, it went wrong. But, it turned out yo be a great day, and photographs turned out great and they seemed chuffed with the proofs I've sent them.

There was another photographer there doing a separate wedding, and he was having a nightmare, as one flash barely had an impact and just smiled.

You look like you got great shots, so you did well.


Chin chin.
 
Personally I'd have told the registrar I'm a professional with a job to do, and I was going to stand where I wanted, I appreciated the floorboard warning and would try not to move, but at the end of the day the couple are paying you to do a job and the registrar didn't like it she could go out and talk to the bride as she steps out of the limo, because she's your boss for the day.

but then again I don't do this for a living and it would be a bit of a gamble lol.
 
i am doing my first wedding in november (twighlight wedding :nailbiting:) and reading this has been a real eye opening into some of the issues i will be up against. I am doing it for the experience of it and won't be getting paid but i am still nervous all the same as the lighting is going to be tough going and i am still very new to flash photography too. You have done a superb job with the processing to come up with such great results!
 
Danger_MouseUK said:
Personally I'd have told the registrar I'm a professional with a job to do, and I was going to stand where I wanted, I appreciated the floorboard warning and would try not to move, but at the end of the day the couple are paying you to do a job and the registrar didn't like it she could go out and talk to the bride as she steps out of the limo, because she's your boss for the day.

but then again I don't do this for a living and it would be a bit of a gamble lol.
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Sorry, but I have to take issue with you there. You say that you don't shoot weddings for a living, yet "I'd have told the registrar I'm a professional with a job to do"? Can you perhaps help me understand how that works?

Whatever, in reality the bride is your boss for most of the day. As far as the ceremony's concerned, the registrar is god. The officiating registrar has complete discretion as to what happens and what doesn't, and that extends to laying down the law to snappers. Getting stroppy with a registrar is usually unnecessary, and it is always counter productive in the long run.

Just sayin' ... :)
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Sorry, but I have to take issue with you there. You say that you don't shoot weddings for a living, yet "I'd have told the registrar I'm a professional with a job to do"? Can you perhaps help me understand how that works?

Whatever, in reality the bride is your boss for most of the day. As far as the ceremony's concerned, the registrar is god. The officiating registrar has complete discretion as to what happens and what doesn't, and that extends to laying down the law to snappers. Getting stroppy with a registrar is usually unnecessary, and it is always counter productive in the long run.

Just sayin' ... :)
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Yes happily, when you are advising someone of what you would personally do in a situation you have not yourself faced, it is quite common to give advice as thought you where in their position assuming their role. Does that cover it?

As someone who deals with difficult people all day, I find, especially with people who are used to being the boss, a little alpha assertiveness and putting them back on the spot when they aren't used to it works more often than you think.
 
Danger_MouseUK said:
Yes happily, when you are advising someone of what you would personally do in a situation you have not yourself faced, it is quite common to give advice as thought you where in their position assuming their role. Does that cover it?
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In a word, no. Sorry, maybe I'm having a senior moment but I don't see your point.
 
tom king said:
Maybe just me ? But the first thing I would have done would have been to completely ignore the Registrar.
You get on with your job I'll get on with mine,they have no juristriction over photographers it is merely courtesy
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Not only is that a rude and short sighted attitude, it's wrong. Very wrong.

The registrar (who is actually the one who sits down and writes the whole time NOT the one who stands up and talks) can at any time for any reason stop the wedding and declare it invalid. They can tell the celebrant (the one who stands up and talks) to repeat bits if they didn't hear them, they can have anybody they like removed from the room and they can suddenly decide it's a coerced wedding and abandon it and call the police. They also (and I'm quoting their manual from memory here) have "a duty to preserve the solemnity of the occasion". They absolutely do have jurisdiction over photographers.

Now the reason that they never do any of that, is that by and large they are dealt with by the professionals they meet with the courtesy and respect they deserve both because, well, people deserve respect and also because they have a surprisingly large selection of powers.

On several occasions I've been told that if I took pictures at certain points they would stop the wedding and have me removed. On one memorable occasion they actually stopped a wedding where I was the photographer and told everybody that if they heard a single more shutter go off then there would be no wedding (it was a guest that had taken pictures - not me).

But none of that has ever happened in Kent - I know lots of the registrars here and we get on great. The only time they have ever stopped a wedding in front of me is so I could get a better shot. See right back in post 7 where I said I'd have a chat and try to persuade them? Professional courtesy goes a surprisingly long way. Ignoring clear instructions by people with the power to really spoil your day, not so much.
 
JonathanRyan said:
They also (and I'm quoting their manual from memory here) have "a duty to preserve the solemnity of the occasion".
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Very close! It's actually "the solemnity and dignity ..." :)

JonathanRyan said:
They absolutely do have jurisdiction over photographers.
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Indeed. And the musicians. And the venue staff in matters impacting on the ceremony

On thinking it, it was actually a Kent registrar who, during the course of an hilarious discussion about stroppy photographers and over-officious registrars years ago, told me that one sure sign of a very inexperienced wedding photographer is that they argue with the registrars.
 
As Jonathan says... I know better than to ignore the registrar, and while I did try to negotiate with her in terms of "only trying to get the best photos I can for this couple" I didnt want to push my luck, as I have another couple of weddings over the next 2 years here, and want to leave on positive ground.

Being able to move may have resulted in slightly better photos...ones which I, as the photographer may have been happier with... but the couple probably wouldn't notice the difference and the risk of being ejected / interrupt the wedding IMO isn't worth "slightly" better photos.

Having a challenging situation likes this makes us better photographers anyway - I learnt a lot about how to de-orange pictures as a result, and my black and whites came on leaps and bounds :LOL: and in some ways Id rather that than something where its just a case of shoot before thinking.

Ironically. I have since done a wedding (on my website under recent weddings) where the vicar told me before the service that I was 100% not permitted to take photos, and he would "be watching me" - in this situation a little persuasion from my end allowed us to meet on middle ground, and I got to shoot from the back of the Church, rather than the front where I ideally wanted to be! This meant that the couple got some photos from the service that they were happy with (actually, it turned out that the photos from the back were probably better than the front anyway!) and I am not likely to be struck down by lightning at any time soon!
 
Is this not why we love wedding photography. Its challenging, if every weeding had great looking couples, venues and weather how dull would that be. I always try to give my self time to talk to the registrars especially if I'm working away from my home patch. The reason they can some times be so strict are photographers who don't have a clue, make life difficult for the rest of us by pushing things to far. Many, many times i have been told if only all photographers were like you (me). I always sweat talk them if i don't know them, explain what i would like to do and most importantly why. It does not always work but it often will. The chap who recommended ignoring the registrar, oh dear what a plank. For professional photographers this is not an option. I work with the same registrars many times in the year and have built up a great working relationship where they trust me.
 
Danger_MouseUK said:
Yes happily, when you are advising someone of what you would personally do in a situation you have not yourself faced, it is quite common to give advice as thought you where in their position assuming their role. Does that cover it?

As someone who deals with difficult people all day, I find, especially with people who are used to being the boss, a little alpha assertiveness and putting them back on the spot when they aren't used to it works more often than you think.
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In many Warwickshire registry offices, registrars allow no photography during the service, and this happens nowhere else in the country as far as I know.

But I've met several vicars who allow no photography at all, some who allow it only from the back of the church and many who place no restrictions.

Professional courtesy and a sixth sense inform whether it's worth even trying to negotiate. And as above, they have the power to eject you on a whim, playing the alpha male in that situation is nothing more than dumb.
 
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I had a similar if not worse situation to this recently, and I think you've done an awesome job! Mine took a week to post produce images I could have otherwise done in a few hours, so frustrating.
It really gets on my nerves this registrar calling the shots thing. We get paid a lot of cash to provide awesome photos of someones one and only big day, then some power hungry registrar wants to flex their muscles and say 'no flash' when really it's nothing to do with them. It should be down to the couple and the couple alone to decide whether a flash is allowed or not. I meet a lot of registrars and whilst most are really laid back and easy going, some are just moaning awkward jobsworths, it really annoys me, theres no need for it.
I ignore them if they are going to jepordise the quality of my work too much. I've had a few tellings off after the ceremony but at least the clients got decent pics :)
 
So as someone who may eventually get married. Would you suggest when we are looking into venues we ask whether flash would be allowed and whether the registrar is an ass
 
You don't know what registrar you'll get until the day, but I would definitely ask them to clarify in writing beforehand whats allowed photography wise. They can't argue then. Most registrars are great but I've had a few stinkers that just seem to want to show you they're the boss. I think most photographers wouldn't want to use a flash anyway unless it's a really awkward lighting scenario, it's only for emergencies really.
 
Ginsters said:
It really gets on my nerves this registrar calling the shots thing.
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Then I respectfully suggest that you get over it. The simple fact of the matter is that in England (and AFAIK in Wales too), the registrar is god, and if he or she decideth that thou shalt not use thy flash, then thou shalt not use thy flash full stop. It is a simple matter of put up or shut up, and the couple have no say in the matter.

Just for the record, I've never once used flash during a ceremony and never seen the need to in any of over 400 of them. If the couple choose to get married in a cave but still expect to get good ceremony pictures, it's down to their snapper to manage their expectations.
 
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Ginsters said:
You don't know what registrar you'll get until the day,.
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not so - the couple will know well in advance when they book the registrar for the date and make payment.

In general terms it is highly unlikely a registrar will allow flash during the service, but if you are using a competent proffesional as a tog that shouldn't be an issue - if you want ceremony pics it is worth clarifying whether photography will be allowed , as not every registrar allows photography even without flash.

also its worth remembering that when we perceive a registrar/celabrant/vicar as an ass because they are restrictive , the reason is probably that they've been messed about by a photographer in the past. For example one vicae told me about a tog who'd interupted the service to say "could you do that again, i missed that bit"
 
The first colour one you've posted above looks good to me and the colour balance seems spot on. I wouldn't worry too much about getting things perfect, sometimes it's better that it looks more natural with light coming in from a window - as one would expect! lol

Speaking of difficult locations, I shot one in a small church in South of France with a strict minister who didn't speak English and no flash allowed. I asked one of the wedding planner assistants to translate and it turned out he was telling me to get out! So how do you get around that one? lol

The location was dark, with some natural light coming in, candle light, overhead flood lights and finally large electric heaters mounted on the walls causing a red cast on people. So there's a combination of colour temperatures for you! I'm not a huge fan of B&W but did resort to it for a few shots where there as too much colour cast. But in most of the shots if I removed the red cast from people then it would have looked weird as you would still see it on the environment, so I just left it in as it looked more natural. I also couldn't remove the ugly heaters because then you'd have a red cast coming from nowhere! lol
 
gman said:
The location was dark, with some natural light coming in, candle light, overhead flood lights and finally large electric heaters mounted on the walls causing a red cast on people. So there's a combination of colour temperatures for you! I'm not a huge fan of B&W but did resort to it for a few shots where there as too much colour cast. But in most of the shots if I removed the red cast from people then it would have looked weird as you would still see it on the environment, so I just left it in as it looked more natural. I also couldn't remove the ugly heaters because then you'd have a red cast coming from nowhere! lol
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maybe a case for black and white conversion ;)
 
Haha feeling your pain with regards to the electric overhead heaters!!

From a subsequent wedding:

p1048402379-4.jpg
 
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gman said:
I asked one of the wedding planner assistants to translate and it turned out he was telling me to get out! So how do you get around that one? lol
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No problem. You look at him like he's crazy, go round muttering "what the hell's he on about?", and ignore him.

gman said:
The location was dark, with some natural light coming in, candle light, overhead flood lights and finally large electric heaters mounted on the walls causing a red cast on people. So there's a combination of colour temperatures for you! I'm not a huge fan of B&W but did resort to it for a few shots where there as too much colour cast. But in most of the shots if I removed the red cast from people then it would have looked weird as you would still see it on the environment, so I just left it in as it looked more natural. I also couldn't remove the ugly heaters because then you'd have a red cast coming from nowhere! lol
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I don't get this. There's not much you can do with those quartz heaters, but beyond trying to minimise the worst of the red, why bother? That shot you've posted is absolutely fine. Just be grateful it wasn't darker in there. We've had them on at a 4pm December wedding in a very dark church, with added joy provided by a huge Christmas tree covered in blue LEDs at one side of the altar ...
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
No problem. You look at him like he's crazy, go round muttering "what the hell's he on about?", and ignore him.
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Yeah I remember the ceremony where Gift Shop Girl came and shouted at me for a bit. Fortunately my Russian is somewhat limited so I assumed she was just telling me how great I was.

Serendipitous Sid said:
I don't get this. There's not much you can do with those quartz heaters, but beyond trying to minimise the worst of the red, why bother? That shot you've posted is absolutely fine. Just be grateful it wasn't darker in there. We've had them on at a 4pm December wedding in a very dark church, with added joy provided by a huge Christmas tree covered in blue LEDs at one side of the altar ...
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Snigger. Lost Village of Dode anybody?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Snigger. Lost Village of Dode anybody?
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Oh gawd, is that place still doing weddings? I'll never forget J*** L******* saying in pre-SatNav days that he'd only ever been late for a ceremony once, and that was because he couldn't find the lost village of Dode ...

ETA Just given up trying to find some out-takes we kept from a wedding we did at Vinopolis which was particularly memorable for the three spots shining down onto the white cloth of the table in front of the registrar, giving three distinct pools of bright light - magenta, orange and blue ...
 
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"voted one of the best 50 wedding venues in the UK by the independent" apparently .. i'm guessing they didnt have photography in mind, unless they like the warm glow of candles :LOL:
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
I don't get this. There's not much you can do with those quartz heaters, but beyond trying to minimise the worst of the red, why bother? That shot you've posted is absolutely fine. Just be grateful it wasn't darker in there. We've had them on at a 4pm December wedding in a very dark church, with added joy provided by a huge Christmas tree covered in blue LEDs at one side of the altar ...
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It's not my shot, but similar heaters. In that one I reckon they could all do with veils!!! lol
 
tom king said:
Maybe just me ? But the first thing I would have done would have been to completely ignore the Registrar.
You get on with your job I'll get on with mine,they have no juristriction over photographers it is merely courtesy
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I'd agree. What's the worst that could have happened? Her refuse to marry the couple because you're on her right hand side? You only get to photograph this wedding once, she gets to marry lots of people, sounds quite selfish.
 
WelshNoob said:
I'd agree. What's the worst that could have happened? Her refuse to marry the couple because you're on her right hand side? You only get to photograph this wedding once, she gets to marry lots of people, sounds quite selfish.
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They stop the ceremony and refuse to conduct the wedding. Or they ask you to leave. Believe it or not a wedding isn't a show out on purely for the photography.
 
WelshNoob said:
I'd agree. What's the worst that could have happened? Her refuse to marry the couple because you're on her right hand side? You only get to photograph this wedding once, she gets to marry lots of people, sounds quite selfish.
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Yes, because your clients, the bride and groom, are going to be SO chuffed when their wedding is stopped because you, the photographer, the hired help as it were, have decided to play hardball with the registrar. Seriously, never a good move.

Shooting into window light is just part and parcel of the whole wedding photography thing. I personally will always choose to stand to the registrars left, so that when the couple turn to face each other, I am looking at the bride, not the back of her head, but if the registrar prefers me to be the other side, then so be it. If the registrar says I have to be at the back at the back of the room, so be it. That ceremony is their domain and if a sweet smile and polite request fails, then so be it. Having said that, I have never had a problem with a registrar [though never shot in Warwickshire either ;) ] and only ever been told I can't photograph in a church by a few female vicars [nope, don't know either] However, if anyone wants to come and shoot the next one in a particular church near me, you are welcome to it - not only are are the windows behind the couple, though they are quite small, the church is dark, as always AND there are 4 good spotlights immediately above where the couple stand, positioned to light the vicar.... I shall leave you to work out where these spotlights fall on the couple, in this dark little old church.... :naughty:
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Sorry, but I have to take issue with you there. You say that you don't shoot weddings for a living, yet "I'd have told the registrar I'm a professional with a job to do"? Can you perhaps help me understand how that works?

Whatever, in reality the bride is your boss for most of the day. As far as the ceremony's concerned, the registrar is god. The officiating registrar has complete discretion as to what happens and what doesn't, and that extends to laying down the law to snappers. Getting stroppy with a registrar is usually unnecessary, and it is always counter productive in the long run.

Just sayin' ... :)
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OK, stupid comments by me.
 
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