Has anyone had any experience with hdewcameras before? Why are they so cheap?

[Unicronatron]

I'm fascinated by HDEW, mainly how they are fairly consistently around HK prices (i.e. UK prices minus VAT) yet seemingly a fully legit UK company. Even more intriguing that they can only source kit from a very specific list of manufacturers.

My understanding is that UK retailers selling non-grey versions of the same kit would be making a loss at HDEW prices.

Pretty much no other UK stores can manage it and even genuinely UK based eBay sellers shifting grey stock have all but disappeared in the last year or two.

I travel to HK a bit, and on camera bodies / kits the prices can be much cheaper than UK minus VAT
i.e. Appears to me even before the sales tax the cameras are just better priced in that market than here.

I can see how they could buy wholesale, pay the VAT and still be cheaper than UK stores. All you are losing out on is the warranty.

Camera lenses on the other hand, I've not seen such bargain prices out there.

 

[gramps]

This time we’re accusing Hdew of using fake VAT numbers

Not quite, it isn't fake, it just isn't assigned to HDEW.
A check here also shows HDEW to be a 'Dormant Company', which is explained by GOV.UK as:-

Your company or association may be ‘dormant’ if it’s not doing business (‘trading’) and doesn’t have any other income, for example investments.

All of this may be fine, legitimate accounting and without cause for concern ... but this, coupled with the T&C statement of the buyer being the importer and liable for duties, is surely reason why many find the situation rather strange.

 

[ecoleman]

Not quite, it isn't fake, it just isn't assigned to HDEW.
A check here also shows HDEW to be a 'Dormant Company', which is explained by GOV.UK as:-


All of this may be fine, legitimate accounting and without cause for concern ... but this, coupled with the T&C statement of the buyer being the importer and liable for duties, is surely reason why many find the situation rather strange.

Or you could use the Limited company that they are trading under

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02975584

 

[lugworm]

Sorry if I'm slightly off-topic, but if buying from Panamoz etc, would any manufacturers "cash back" offers still apply ?

 

[gramps]

Or you could use the Limited company that they are trading under

Possibly and that may explain both the VAT and Dormant Company issues (I simply don't know).
However it does not explain the T&C statement that the buyer is the importer, (which they have not removed from the website despite numerous enquiries from many people, including me), or how HDEW can supply their equipment at the prices they do if VAT is applied ... or for that matter, why if they can, that nobody else does.

 

[gramps]

Sorry if I'm slightly off-topic, but if buying from Panamoz etc, would any manufacturers "cash back" offers still apply ?

No

 

[Stephen L]

Sorry if I'm slightly off-topic, but if buying from Panamoz etc, would any manufacturers "cash back" offers still apply ?

As Gramps says, no. Most manufacturers have a list of UK retailers who participate in such schemes, and the cashback etc only applies to kit bought from those retailers.

 

[sphexx]

Not quite, it isn't fake, it just isn't assigned to HDEW.
A check here also shows HDEW to be a 'Dormant Company', which is explained by GOV.UK as:-


All of this may be fine, legitimate accounting and without cause for concern ... but this, coupled with the T&C statement of the buyer being the importer and liable for duties, is surely reason why many find the situation rather strange.

That EU site is useful but they do not make it easy to use . Somewhat OT but last time I checked it was impossible to find out if a firm is VAT registered without knowing their VAT number. Where this is relevant is when you get quotes from various suppliers some including VAT and some not.​

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

The number 671 9479 88 on my invoice checks out fine.

It's registered to Validhirst Ltd and on the HDEW website it states;

Validhirst Ltd T/A HDEW Cameras
62 The Street
Ashtead
Surrey
KT21 1AT

I used this site to check it;

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/

Do you know something I don't ? I'm intrigued to know.

Validhirst Ltd on Companies House matches HDEW's address.

When i phoned up earlier the woman on the phone explained all VAT receipts are 100% legal and its all above board, she said they get the question a lot because the prices are so low and people cant understand why so i dont know why people doubt that, surely they wouldnt be in business if it wasnt legal.

They can explain all they want.

The Receipt says HDEW Cameras, and has the VAT number of Validhirst on it. But no mention of Validhirts on the receipt. So the receipt does not meet the HMRC rules for a VAT Receipt, as the company name and the VAT number must both be present.

Combined with the fact that they're the same price as all of the other grey importers who aren't paying VAT, then it seems to suggest that neither are HDEW.

Now this probably doesn't actually cause an issue, unless you're VAT registered and trying to claim the VAT back that was never paid in the first place.

 

[jerry12953]

HDEW pricing and VAT content is a bit of mystery, I agree.

But I have bought from them several times and if they had what I wanted I would certianly buy again.

As I am VAT registered I have always claimed the VAT back. I wouldn't worry about it. It is extremely unlikely that HMRC would do a VAT investigation and then actually query an invoice from HDEW. And even if they did one could take the evidence at face value. It wouldn't be a problem for the customer,.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

HDEW pricing and VAT content is a bit of mystery, I agree.

But I have bought from them several times and if they had what I wanted I would certianly buy again.

As I am VAT registered I have always claimed the VAT back. I wouldn't worry about it. It is extremely unlikely that HMRC would do a VAT investigation and then actually query an invoice from HDEW. And even if they did one could take the evidence at face value. It wouldn't be a problem for the customer,.

I believe if you were investigated then under HMRC rules you would be at fault, because they state "VAT should not be claimed without a valid VAT receipt" and it's your duty to ensure the receipts are valid, which HDEWs are not.

However, as you say, it's extremely unlikely to happen and worst case scenario is probably that you'd just have to pay back what you'd claimed on that invoice.

 

[hashcake]

Nice to see yet another thread hijacked and arguing over VAT rather that sticking to the OP's opening post...
He just wanted clarification as to how the likes of HDEW operate and how they can sell kit cheaper than UK companies.
It's obvious that even with VAT added their prices would still be cheaper than the UK.
Wether you agree wth grey importers or not, it doesn't mean yet another thread is hijacked and go way off topic.

 

[gramps]

Nice to see yet another thread hijacked and arguing over VAT rather that sticking to the OP's opening post...
He just wanted clarification as to how the likes of HDEW operate and how they can sell kit cheaper than UK companies.
It's obvious that even with VAT added their prices would still be cheaper than the UK.
Wether you agree wth grey importers or not, it doesn't mean yet another thread is hijacked and go way off topic.

He asked:-

Are there hidden fees? I mean i get its cheap but who is paying the VAT/TAX? Would i get the bill for that a few weeks later and then be angry the cost went up to UK levels? I cant find the catch.......

With the likes of Panamoz, DigitalRev and some other Far East suppliers they agree to pay the import charges if their delivery is 'caught' by Customs and charges are made, so you don't lose out.
HDEW on the other hand claim that the buyer is the importer so, IF Customs take an interest in the sale now or in the future, HDEW have made it clear that it is the buyer's problem to pay the extras.

 

[StewartR]

Nice to see yet another thread hijacked and arguing over VAT rather that sticking to the OP's opening post...
He just wanted clarification as to how the likes of HDEW operate and how they can sell kit cheaper than UK companies.

I don't think it has been hijacked.

The problem is that nobody really knows the answer to the OP's question. As others have pointed out here, HDEW's pricing and VAT status is a bit obscure.

The answer that makes the most sense is that HDEW are importing lenses illegally, evading import duty and VAT, and running two sets of books (declaring and paying VAT on a small proportion of sales to throw HMRC off the scent). But obviously nobody outside of HDEW can prove that, so it's all just speculation. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I've said this about HDEW before, and if I'm libelling them then they don't seem at all bothered to try to stop me.

 

[hashcake]

He asked:-


With the likes of Panamoz, DigitalRev and some other Far East suppliers they agree to pay the import charges if their delivery is 'caught' by Customs and charges are made, so you don't lose out.
HDEW on the other hand claim that the buyer is the importer so, IF Customs take an interest in the sale now or in the future, HDEW have made it clear that it is the buyer's problem to pay the extras.

That's fine and it answers the OP's question but a lot posts turned it into a debate about VAT.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

how many more threads,why not just point to the last 100 just kidding

 

[gramps]

That's fine and it answers the OP's question but a lot posts turned it into a debate about VAT.

Well it's the VAT aspect that is most puzzling with HDEW.
Just selling 'grey' equipment at 'grey' prices is no mystery but selling 'grey' equipment at 'grey' prices that include UK VAT is very definitely a mystery and hence very relevant to the O/P's question.

 

[ecoleman]

They can explain all they want.

The Receipt says HDEW Cameras, and has the VAT number of Validhirst on it. But no mention of Validhirts on the receipt. So the receipt does not meet the HMRC rules for a VAT Receipt, as the company name and the VAT number must both be present.

Combined with the fact that they're the same price as all of the other grey importers who aren't paying VAT, then it seems to suggest that neither are HDEW.

Now this probably doesn't actually cause an issue, unless you're VAT registered and trying to claim the VAT back that was never paid in the first place.

I'm a sole trader. My VAT invoices have my trading name on them as well as my VAT number which is in my name.
Perfectly normal and legal and thousands of businesses do it.

No different to PC World issuing a VAT invoice. Says PC World on the receipt. VAT Number is in the name of Dixons Retail PLC.

You're grabbing at straws.

 

[ecoleman]

I believe if you were investigated then under HMRC rules you would be at fault, because they state "VAT should not be claimed without a valid VAT receipt" and it's your duty to ensure the receipts are valid, which HDEWs are not.

However, as you say, it's extremely unlikely to happen and worst case scenario is probably that you'd just have to pay back what you'd claimed on that invoice.

They do give you a valid VAT receipt, with a Valid trading name and a valid VAT number.

Why do you find that so difficult to grasp?

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

I'm a sole trader. My VAT invoices have my trading name on them as well as my VAT number which is in my name.
Perfectly normal and legal and thousands of businesses do it.

No different to PC World issuing a VAT invoice. Says PC World on the receipt. VAT Number is in the name of Dixons Retail PLC.

You're grabbing at straws.

The difference is, that the PC World receipt will have the the name of the company the VAT number belongs to in the footer of the receipt. Yours isn't the same if you're not a LTD company or PLC.

The HMRC rules for a VAT receipt from a company are that the VAT number *and* the company name that the VAT number belongs to *must* be shown on the receipt for it to be valid.

So if the VAT number is from Validhirst, the receipt must say that somewhere on it. But unless they've changed things recently, there is no mention of Validhirst on an HDEW VAT receipt, so therefore, it does not meet the HMRC rules.

No idea why it's so difficult for you to grasp.

 

[imattersuk]

I'm a sole trader. My VAT invoices have my trading name on them as well as my VAT number which is in my name.
Perfectly normal and legal and thousands of businesses do it.

No different to PC World issuing a VAT invoice. Says PC World on the receipt. VAT Number is in the name of Dixons Retail PLC.

You're grabbing at straws.

He's having trouble grasping Validhirst Ltd T/A HDEW Cameras

The Neil Warnock of TP ?

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

He's having trouble grasping Validhirst Ltd T/A HDEW Cameras

The Neil Warnock of TP ?

Does it say that *on the receipt* because it certainly didn't used to, which is what made the receipt invalid - because the company name and the VAT number *must* match. It's not a difficult concept.

 

[jerry12953]

D'oh!

Was this man a VAT inspector in another life?

 

[sphexx]

Unless the law has changed, when a trading name is used in any documentation the ‘real’ name has to appear somewhere on the document. This applies to companies obviously but I’m not sure about sole traders though logically it must.
Back in the mists of time you had to register a trading name and when that was abolished the compromise was what I have described above.

 

[rob-nikon]

Have you ever tried to get a vat receipt at pc world or noticed the need for customers to ask for a vat receipt if buying fuel at a pfs. Whether you should have to is a matter for hmrc, not an issue for hdew who aren’t doing anything unusual re vat invoices

Not bought anything from PC World so can’t answer that one but Tesco’s standard petrol receipts have a VAT summary and their VAT number on their standard receipt. The reason people ask for VAT receipts in petrol stations is companies ask for VAT receipts for business mileage reimbursements. If the receipt doesn’t have a VAT summary it’s likely you don’t get reimbursted for the mileage hence why people ask specifically for them even though the standard receipt has those details. Tesco does now ask if you want a receipt or not. That’s only because if you don’t want one they don’t print one (cost saving for them and environmentally friendly too).

To me it just seems strange why anyone wouldn’t want a full receipt as standard on purchases of these sizes (whether it’s HDEW or anywhere else) and need to ask for one.

It’s understandable that people are going to question how a UK company can supply goods at a price that’s far lower than other UK suppliers (and in line with known grey suppliers), offer a 3 year warranty (there are costs to do that), pay duties and VAT and still make enough profit to stay in business as a bricks and mortar shop. The problem is no one except HDEW are going to know how they do it. The statements about importers in there T&Cs (actually stated under intellectual rights) doesn’t help and muddies the waters further. Everyone else (on both sides of the argument) is just making (maybe or maybe not educated) guesses how they do it.

 

[imattersuk]

Everyone is overlooking the obvious here, products are sold at different prices in different countries, prices in some Asian countries are often much lower so what's the mystery ? If they are buying significantly cheaper from an Asian distributor (or retailer) than they can buy from the UK distributor that's your answer. Why do some people assume it must be a tax fiddle ?

Ever bought a coke in Goa then compared it to what it costs in Japan ? Manufacturers dictate wholesale prices in different countries.

 

[Jim_Tod]

Not bought anything from PC World so can’t answer that one but Tesco’s standard petrol receipts have a VAT summary and their VAT number on their standard receipt. The reason people ask for VAT receipts in petrol stations is companies ask for VAT receipts for business mileage reimbursements. If the receipt doesn’t have a VAT summary it’s likely you don’t get reimbursted for the mileage hence why people ask specifically for them even though the standard receipt has those details. Tesco does now ask if you want a receipt or not. That’s only because if you don’t want one they don’t print one (cost saving for them and environmentally friendly too).

To me it just seems strange why anyone wouldn’t want a full receipt as standard on purchases of these sizes (whether it’s HDEW or anywhere else) and need to ask for one.

It’s understandable that people are going to question how a UK company can supply goods at a price that’s far lower than other UK suppliers (and in line with known grey suppliers), offer a 3 year warranty (there are costs to do that), pay duties and VAT and still make enough profit to stay in business as a bricks and mortar shop. The problem is no one except HDEW are going to know how they do it. The statements about importers in there T&Cs (actually stated under intellectual rights) doesn’t help and muddies the waters further. Everyone else (on both sides of the argument) is just making (maybe or maybe not educated) guesses how they do it.

You’re assuming you dont get a receipt from hdew if you dont ask for a vat receipt. A vat receipt has a specific set of information beyond a simple receipt. I understand hdew put a simple receipt out with their orders and provide a vat receipt on request

Re the fuel- not everyone offers vat receipts as standard

 

[Craigus]

I wish the mods would come down on this type of thread, fine if there are legitimate questions like the op has asked and they should be answered and given the facts. But these threads inevitably turn into the usual debates and dirt slinging matches about VAT, at which point the thread serves no purpose and only creates arguments and divisions in what should be a helpful community.

Either lock them down quicker or remove all the VAT Talk. It's been done to death over and over and over.

 

[gramps]

Ever bought a coke in Goa then compared it to what it costs in Japan ? Manufacturers dictate wholesale prices in different countries.

If it was as simple as that then many more retailers would be doing it.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

You’re assuming you dont get a receipt from hdew if you dont ask for a vat receipt. A vat receipt has a specific set of information beyond a simple receipt. I understand hdew put a simple receipt out with their orders and provide a vat receipt on request

Re the fuel- not everyone offers vat receipts as standard

Yes, but the VAT receipt they supply, does not have the correct information on it.

I wish the mods would come down on this type of thread, fine if there are legitimate questions like the op has asked and they should be answered and given the facts. But these threads inevitably turn into the usual debates and dirt slinging matches about VAT, at which point the thread serves no purpose and only creates arguments and divisions in what should be a helpful community.

Either lock them down quicker or remove all the VAT Talk. It's been done to death over and over and over.

It is relevant, because if the OP is thinking about making a purchase of a grey product, and wants to know if there is any comeback re VAT, then it may impact what they do.

Panamoz for example, under declare the value of the import so that no VAT is added. If the item is picked up by customs, they agree to reimburse you as buyer. If you don't declare the import, then technically you are evading VAT.

HDEW though, claim that VAT is paid, and will issue a VAT receipt, only the VAT receipt isn't actually valid under HMRC rules. They also say if the item attracts VAT / Duty charges,that you, as importer, are liable for the cost. Which is obviously weird, because if they'd already paid it for you, there'd be no more duty due.

Panamoz offer a 3 year warranty on lenses as well as cameras, whereas I believe HDEW only cover cameras. And Panamoz just get you to send it to Nikon and paypal you the money.

And some people don't want to buy something where VAT has been evaded.

So it's definitely relevant, if the fact that VAT *appears* to have been paid on HDEW orders, when in fact, it may not have, is definitely relevant to making a decision to buy.

 

[Hertsman]

Im Firmly in the "this s*** is boring now " camp, as well as buying a house on the "who gives a s*** about a single person sticking it to the man" estate thats over there >>>>

The whole Pananmoz et all stuff shoud be a sticky at the top and any other threads locked because its just so dull arguing about the same stuff.

 

[rob-nikon]

The whole Pananmoz et all stuff shoud be a sticky at the top and any other threads locked because its just so dull arguing about the same stuff.

Funnily there is already a sticky regarding grey imports, it’s just most don’t know about it or havent looked for it:

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/shopping-suppliers-and-bargains.20/

Second pinned thread at the top (and two above this thread!).

 

[Craigus]

snip

I agree it's relevant to the op's question, but that info could be easily found in the numerous other threads that have covered this subject, or a sticky that could be at the top of the forum?

The arguments and ill feeling between most people posting on these threads is not productive or encouraging to the newcomers who usually start these threads. Frankly, it doesn't cast the forum in a very good light.

 

[gramps]

Why do people involve themselves with discussions that they find "boring" or upsetting to their sensitivities?

Seems simple ... don't read or post.

 

[StewartR]

I agree it's relevant to the op's question, but that info could be easily found in the numerous other threads that have covered this subject, or a sticky that could be at the top of the forum?

The arguments and ill feeling between most people posting on these threads is not productive or encouraging to the newcomers who usually start these threads. Frankly, it doesn't cast the forum in a very good light.

It's a fine balance though, isn't it? You might argue that directing newcomers to just read the FAQs and the stickies isn't very helpful or friendly.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

time for a refill

 

[Craigus]

Why do people involve themselves with discussions that they find "boring" or upsetting to their sensitivities?

Seems simple ... don't read or post.

Nobody is upset on this side of the keyboard, I just think threads like this make the forum look like it's frequented by a bunch of frustrated men who just want to argue about things. Though it is usually the same people who contribute to threads like this one, so maybe I'm on to something.

 

[gramps]

Nobody is upset on this side of the keyboard, I just think threads like this make the forum look like it's frequented by a bunch of frustrated men who just want to argue about things. Though it is usually the same people who contribute to threads like this one, so maybe I'm on to something.

Why are you arguing?

 

[hashcake]

Nobody is upset on this side of the keyboard, I just think threads like this make the forum look like it's frequented by a bunch of frustrated men who just want to argue about things.

It's the norm on any online forum, this tends to have less arguements than some of the others.

 

[hashcake]

Why do people involve themselves with discussions that they find "boring" or upsetting to their sensitivities?

Seems simple ... don't read or post.

Trolls will always exist on forums, it just that most are in denial and flip their lid when you call them a troll