Has anyone upgrade from D700 to D3/s/x?

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JohnD76

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Hi,

I have the upgrade bug and for some insane reason keep lusting after a D3s even though I currently have a D700 which takes stonking shots in most conditions.

Has anyone moved from a D700 to a D3, D3s, or D3x ?

If so, what are your honest feelings of doing so, was it worth the additional cost and what are the improvements you have seen?

I am also wondering if the 50mm f1.4G AFS might focus quicker that the 24-70mm, does anyone have any experience of this?


I mainly use the 24-70mm f2.8 AFS and 70-200 f2.8 VRI and take shots whenever I can of whatever I can, though presently it is mainly used to capture my little girl and I class myself as an enthusiastic amateur.

I am having problems currently with the D700 managing to focus quickly enough on her as she runs towards to me, and was wondering if the AF on the D3s might help me get more keepers. For example, this was the only shot I kept out of series and of her running towards me (think cheetah like speed, and teeth...) and I managed to focus on her hair, though she was by this time very close to me:

4272392370_8e17447e93.jpg



I am finding these days that I am missing lots of really fantastic shots since she is so bl00dy fast. She takes beautiful and very emotive shots when happy which often coincides with bursts of speed and a lot of the shots I am getting are not in focus or sharp enough for my liking.


I am aware that focusing, or lack thereof, may be more down to "operator issues" or me expecting too much... ;-)


Your thought on the move/upgrade from D700 + Grip to D3/s/x and also on focusing speed of 50mm 1.4 vs 24-70mm 2.8 AFS would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

John.
 
The upgrade thing is a myth.

I have a pair of D3 bodies and I am professional, full time. I can see no reason to upgrade, they produce MORE than I need already, quality wise. For what you want a camera for you would be loading yourself down with a great deal more weight, much higher cost, fill your computer faster and in the final output, you probably wouldn't see the difference, unless you are printing everything at A2 or bigger.

Take heart in the knowledge that you have a D3 with a few bits missing. The hype is put about to put these nagging needs in peoples' heads....that is how companies make profit, by suggesting to people they could take better pictures "IF ONLY"........

Your money is better spent on taking your girl on trips. You will then get lovely pictures with your camera of her enjoying herself. Have you tried different focussing settings? Maybe restrict the focus points to 9 and quicken the focus lock-on. That makes a BIG difference. The camera doesn't have to do so many sums in the focus following time, so can focus faster.

Try a 1.4 85mm.....the AFS is likely to be faster though. I wouldn't BUY one, I would try and rent or borrow one for a few days and see how you get on.

Maybe try setting up some situations.....not posed, just controlled situations so you have more idea of what is going to happen where.
Swings, slides, roundabouts.......even in the house, by giving her an idea yu will then know where she is going to be and so where YOU need to be to catch whatever it is, rather than trying to catch the haphazard. You can still do that, of course, but you may find the forwarned approach provides you with the results you seek.

You don't need another camera....but you might LIKE one. The D3S will shoot in video and then you can take a still off the video. Sounds like cheating to me!
 
I agree with Lensflare that the upgrade costs aren't worth it for what you want. As silly as it may sound, it's only the dual card function of the D3 I'd appreciate - and only then for paid work. But if you decide to sell the D700 (and possibly the 24-70mm) please let me know when you plan to open a thread for it. You could have my 1.4 as part of the bargain too! :)
 
But you have a D3 and not a D700 like the OP, he hasnt asked if youre happy with your D3 but if you have had a D700 and upgraded

If the D700 was as good as the D3 then why on earth do pros like you and me buy a D3 and not a D700, answer is because the D700 does what we want it to do and the D700 doesnt

Lensflare said:
The upgrade thing is a myth.

I have a pair of D3 bodies and I am professional, full time. I can see no reason to upgrade, they produce MORE than I need already, quality wise. For what you want a camera for you would be loading yourself down with a great deal more weight, much higher cost, fill your computer faster and in the final output, you probably wouldn't see the difference, unless you are printing everything at A2 or bigger.

Take heart in the knowledge that you have a D3 with a few bits missing. The hype is put about to put these nagging needs in peoples' heads....that is how companies make profit, by suggesting to people they could take better pictures "IF ONLY"........

Your money is better spent on taking your girl on trips. You will then get lovely pictures with your camera of her enjoying herself. Have you tried different focussing settings? Maybe restrict the focus points to 9 and quicken the focus lock-on. That makes a BIG difference. The camera doesn't have to do so many sums in the focus following time, so can focus faster.

Try a 1.4 85mm.....the AFS is likely to be faster though. I wouldn't BUY one, I would try and rent or borrow one for a few days and see how you get on.

Maybe try setting up some situations.....not posed, just controlled situations so you have more idea of what is going to happen where.
Swings, slides, roundabouts.......even in the house, by giving her an idea yu will then know where she is going to be and so where YOU need to be to catch whatever it is, rather than trying to catch the haphazard. You can still do that, of course, but you may find the forwarned approach provides you with the results you seek.

You don't need another camera....but you might LIKE one. The D3S will shoot in video and then you can take a still off the video. Sounds like cheating to me!
Click to expand...
 
Gary Coyle said:
If the D700 was as good as the D3 then why on earth do pros like you and me buy a D3 and not a D700, answer is because the D700 does what we want it to do and the D700 doesnt
Click to expand...

Ok, but lets look at what those differences are... AFAIK the differences are:

1) No pop up flash on the D3

2) Not a weather sealed, tough pro body on the D700

3) No dust off on the D3 (is on the D3S)

4) An extra button on the D3 (can't remember what its for)

5) Dual flash card slots on the D3

6) Small body/small body on the D700 without the grip + stuff.

Thats it isn't it? The main reason pros will buy a D3 and not a D700 is #2 and #5.

The D3 was obviously out before the D700, so that limited your choice to start with for early adopters.

Then for a period the price of the D700 with a grip (because we all love grips with extra portrait orientated controls don't we? :D) and the bigger capacity EN-EL4A battery, cover and charger was almost the same as a D3 could be got for... so *maybe*

But it still comes back to those #2 and #5 for most pros.

#2 is important because cameras get used as a tool and battered, #5 is critical because you don't want to trust one flimsy card with your expensively constructed shoot.

For an amateur, you'd probably place more importance on #1 and #3 - the dust off really does work and the pop up flash is useful for if nothing else a CLS commander for those with only one speedlight.

Did I miss anything?

Better photos? I don't think I've really covered anything there that will be a real "better photos" issue, just the difference between what non-techy things a pro needs vs an amateur.

The D3S obviously is slightly technically improved and the D3X... well, you'll loose a lot of high ISO capability that no doubt you are very happy with and render enormous photos sized for pro-fashion work....

Its your money though, who am I to say "thou shalt not have a Nikon top end pro camera for taking pictures of your daughter in the garden"
 
desantnik said:
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
Plenty but thats not the point really

desantnik said:
Its your money though, who am I to say "thou shalt not have a Nikon top end pro camera for taking pictures of your daughter in the garden"
Click to expand...
And thats exactly the point

However the D700 is one heck of a camera and to be perfectly honest if you cant capture a few photos of your daughter running towards you with it and your lens line up i would think the OP needs to double check how the camera is set up.
 
Oh and BTW... is the D700 fast enough to cope with a speeding girl? My colleague uses his D700 when we shoot things like British Superbike and if she's faster than that then you still have time to enter her for the 2010 championship :D

One shoot in particular I remember from last year was at Cadwell - virtually head on shots with a closing speed of about 160-170mph in poor late light as it started raining... so yes, a D700 can cope :D
 
desantnik said:
and the D3X... well, you'll loose a lot of high ISO capability that no doubt you are very happy with and render enormous photos sized for pro-fashion work....
Click to expand...

Actually you don't. If you re-size a D3x image to the 12MP of the D3 the noise is pretty much the same. I'm actually thinking of trading my D3 for s D3x, because then you get the best of both worlds.

As for the OP question. A D3/s/x wont help you at all IMO. Your main issue seems to be focusing, and the D700 has the same focus system.

Oh and comparing the 50mmAFS to the 24-70 on AF speed is easy. the 50mm is very slow compared to the 24-70. In fact I haven't seen a lens focus faster than the 24-70 yet.

Pete
 
Oh and yes, I agree, the 24-70 AFS and the 70-200 VR are very fast... is perhaps not your problem DOF? Presumably these are shot at f2.8? It will be very narrow closeup, nailing it will be taxing even if you have your focus setup right in the menus.

Try knocking it back to f4 and bumping the ISO to give a reasonable shutter speed - maybe 1/250? Or use some flash to freeze her instead?

I can't see the EXIF in your original photo?
 
It looks to me like the hair is in focus more than the eyes. Is that so?

If so and she's running towards you then it just seems like a focus issue here, as it's actually focussed slightly in front your daughter.
 
I am having problems currently with the D700 managing to focus quickly enough on her as she runs towards to me
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Are you sure it's focus not blur. Set up right you should not be having trouble with focus.
And for what it's worth, if you want to/afford to upgrade, just do it! I'm about to get a D3s, but that's because I want a second body, the high ISO capability, and the weatherproofing. (most of my work is outdoors).
 
John, have you tried setting the AF-ON focussing technique? You set the camera so the half press does not focus and use continuous autofocus when you press the AF-On button. I have found many more keepers since switching to this way of focussing. Have a search for it, there have been a few discussions on it.
 
I don't think a D3 or D3x would do any better in this particular situation...it'll come down to practicing harder with the various AF settings on your D700 - back-focus is something I'm only now starting to have a go at (no need previously, but I read about it here and thought I'd give it a go...)...

But...if you want one...isn't that justification enough...?
 
had the d700 got it pinched and replaced it with the d3 pros are the increased frame rate over the 700 even of you grip your 700 which by the way makes it larger than the d3!.. if you have big lenses i.e a 300mm f2.8 it balances better too and lastly the battery life is loads better... on the down side i really miss the flash for the cls... other than this I notice no difference... oh just 1! 100% viewfinder.
did I make the right choice.. absolutely! the 3 just feels more man sized and fits my type of shooting better than the 700 did
 
JohnD76 said:
I am having problems currently with the D700 managing to focus quickly enough on her as she runs towards to me
Click to expand...
I think this is probably due to the settings you have, rather than the camera. The focus on the D700 is very capable, but quite complicated (I'm not wanting to sound patronising here, I'm making no judgements on anyone).

What do you have setting a4 set to? I suggest having it set off for what you're after.

What other settings are you using? AF-C, and a1 set to release? And single or Dynamic focus area, with how many points set in a3?

I recon you'll be able to sort this out. If you want to change body, find another reason (like you just fancy one) 'cos this reason sucks ;)
 
Thanks for all the replies there is some really useful advice here about AF settings and some not so useful comments...

Its your money though, who am I to say "thou shalt not have a Nikon top end pro camera for taking pictures of your daughter in the garden"
Click to expand...

Which I only imagine was said in jest.... We'll leave it at that shall we? :-)

My understanding of the differences between the D3 and the D3s are as follows:

1. Far less noise at higher ISO's due to the new sensor
2. Improved Motor drive than the D3
3. Faster AF than the D3
4. 48 frame RAW buffer


Owing to the above improvements over the D3 and therefore the D700, I personally would find the additional card slot, faster frame rate and AF and considerably larger buffer very useful though I would miss using the pop up flash as a commander for my two SB900's, but I could either get a SU-800 or use one SB900 as commander instead.

My camera AF settings are as follows:

A1 : was on release, have changed to release + focus for now
A2 : Focus
A3 : 3D 51 Point (3D tracking), have changed to 9
A4 : 3 (Normal)
A5 : is on Shutter/AF-on might try AF-On only since I have been using this of late
A8 : Was AF51, have changed to AF11
A9 : 0ff

I am hoping the changes to the AF settings will hopefully allow me to get more keepers under these low light conditions:

The example photo I have included in the OP was taken of my daughter when she was running from 1.5 meters away towards the camera and captured when she was very close to the camera (<40cms) with a mounted SB900 with LightSphere using Cl, AF-C and Dynamic Area AF.

Treeman Mark, the shot is somewhat blurry but I am looking at the whole sequence of shots and this was the most in focus one, it was one of those "She's coming right for us"" moment and by the time I had focused she was on me!

The D700 with 70-200 and with and without 2X TC was more than fast enough to get some fantastic shots at the 2009 British Grand Prix; had the cars, however, been driving in circles around me about 40 cms away from the lens then it might have been a different story... ;-)


I don't think a D3 or D3x would do any better in this particular situation...it'll come down to practicing harder with the various AF settings on your D700 - back-focus is something I'm only now starting to have a go at (no need previously, but I read about it here and thought I'd give it a go...)...

But...if you want one...isn't that justification enough...?
Click to expand...

I have been using the AF-on recently but need to play with this some more since I keep going for the shutter release, old habits... I suppose.

I am going to use see if the AF settings have made a difference but, yes Arkady, I am still lusting after a D3s; just trying not to spend over £3.5K on one, or at least looking for reasons why I shouldn't :-)

If there is anyone else, aside from Andy, who has gone from D700 to D3/s/x, though I am mainly interested in the D3s, can you please post you comments? (Ryanyboy?)

Has anyone moved from a D700 to a D3, D3s, or D3x ?

If so, what are your honest feelings of doing so, was it worth the additional cost and what are the improvements you have seen?
Click to expand...
 
I think your new focus settings will help you - particularly turning off 51 pt with 3d tracking!!

You do know your 70-200 VR has a minimum focus distance of 1.5m and the 24-70 is 0.39m? Can be pushing it if you have a little girl running around inside your living room - unless you live in the Tsar's palace :D

You didn't answer about my EXIF question and what mode you were in with that shot?

(btw, of course I jest with that comment, if you read enough of my posts, I jest a fair bit :D)
 
I've upgraded one of my D700's for a D3s. Am I happy - yes, as I'd now like to upgrade the other :D

Why - ISO performance mainly. Althought the quicker AF is also nice and I love the handling of a larger body. But mainly ISO.

I've only half read the whole thread but for me it was worth it :)

Ryan
 
JohnD76 said:
My camera AF settings are as follows:

A1 : was on release, have changed to release + focus for now
A2 : Focus
Click to expand...
A1 - it is worth trying both release and release + focus. This is probably the only setting you need to play with. A2 we'll ignore since you're using AF-C.
A3 : 3D 51 Point (3D tracking), have changed to 9
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In the example you gave, this shouldn't really matter, as long as you keep the focus point on your daughter. If she's running accross the frame and you're not panning with her, obviously you'll want 51 point, but if she's coming towards you and you're keeping the focus point on her, 9 point is fine. Note that the centre 15 points will be better at following focus than the outside sensors).

A4 : 3 (Normal)
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You should try turning this off (it certainly won't hurt, and is possibly the cause of the problem). Although it's only large changes in focus that you're telling the camera to ignore for a short time, at short subject distances there's a good chance this is delaying the focus change.

A5 : is on Shutter/AF-on might try AF-On only since I have been using this of late
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AF-On is really good and helps keep the camera focussing.

A8 : Was AF51, have changed to AF11
Click to expand...
This doesn't affect your issue, so it doesn't matter.
A9 : 0ff
Click to expand...
If the problems are in low light, check whether the problem also persists in good light. If it's a low light problem, make sure you're using the centre 15 focus points and try putting this on.
 
I've gone from the d3 to the d3s myself, and it's about a stop to a stop and a half better IMHO

I would also say - if you're worried about the loss of the builtin flash you could always grab an sb 400 - won't do cls though. The other option as you say is the su800, which I love, but is no good outdoors at any range at all, I have a set of pt04s I use for longer range stuff.

The d3x can't compete with the d3s for Noise, especially seeing as it can't do the stupid high ISos that the d3s can. It natively goes to 1600 then hi1 and 2
 
You're going about this the wrong way. Its what matters to you and only you that is important.
If you can afford it and want something and you will get enjoyment from using it, just do it. If its an overkill, so be it. Life is shi**y at the best of times. Just enjoy what you can out of it.
I've got the D3s and love it. It is more of an upgrade to the D3 than I actually expected. I don't bother to go into detail as to why it is, because it just ends up in a debate and going backwards and forwards with different opinons. I really can't be arsed nowadays.
The most important thing with buying new gear is, can you afford it? If you have responsibilities like family, are they going to go without to enable you to get it? Is it causing you to get into debt that will cause you problems later.
If you feel comfortable with your answers, then buy it and enjoy it. If you want to pop over and try the D3s for a day with me and compare, feel free.

Kev.



I do need to add that I've just come in from the pub...:D
 
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