Has the film camera market bottomed out?

Messages
9,006
Name
Rob Telford
Edit My Images
No
More of a thinking aloud post than anything else...

As alluded to by colpepper in another thread, after a decade of falling prices, my impression is that prices of film bodies are on the up in the last few months.

Nice rangefinders, like the Yashica Electro 35, that were selling regularly for £20-£30 six or nine months ago, are now going for £40-£60, with the top end over £100. You can still get the odd £20 bargain, but they're getting fewer and further between.

As colpepper noted, Mamiya C220s and C330s that you could barely give away not so long ago are heading toward £200 and beyond.

I guess all the people that were going to switch permanently to digital have done so by now, and offloaded their film kit if they were inclined to do that.

Some of us have been taking opportunity to buy up cameras that were always desirable, but way too expensive in the past - medium format in particular is in the frame here. My brother has bought himself a Rolleiflex T and a Hasselblad 500C/M in the last year (and yesterday a developing tank and some Rodinal). For myself, I've still got a hankering after a Mamiya RZ that I suspect I may have to satisfy sooner rather than later if my suspicions are correct.

Then there's the let's see what it's like because it's cheap option. For myself, I've mostly been indulging myself with fixed lens rangefinders and slightly quirky SLRs like a Yashica J-3.

And there's a new generation of people who got their start in photography with digital cameras, probably with a compact or bridge, then made the transition to DSLRs and are now looking for a new challenge.

Now, most of these audiences are people looking for film cameras to actually use them. The pros who were shooting film have largely deserted the practice and sold off their gear. There's probably a diminishing supply of undiscovered amateur cameras left in the attic that are in working condition and those that are not will be cannibalised for parts to keep those going.

The good news is that it should do something to stem the parallell decline in film sales and the other ancillary equipment we need to keep shooting film, so hopefully manufacturers should keep making the stuff and retailers continue to stock them.

The trouble I can see is that, if that is the way things are going, it won't be so long before the collector/investors start to notice - and we know what that's done with the Leica market (which seems to be a law unto itself). :cautious:

Am I delusional? I just wondered what everyone else's opinions are on the topic?
 
Last edited:
I've only been into film for maybe 18 months and I've noticed that the incredible bargains on ebay have just dried up completely. You used to see a Nikon that wasn't particularly popular going to under a tenner with a kit lens, Now they are reaching into the twenty and thirties when there is a lens. People are starting to collect cameras and grabbing the really nice examples. This is pulling the prices up for the ones that are just reasonable/decent quality :)

There are still some bargains out there but they are getting harder to find.
 
It also doesn't help that the first year photography students are studying film, so thats the place all the students snatch the film cameras from (me included) :]
 
I think the ebay market is soon going to out-price itself. Local classified and car-boot sales will be the next better hunting ground for a short while. This is often where people sell stuff that they simply don't know anything about, except that it's 'old film stuff my dad had' and in their eyes, therefore, just about worthless.
As I said, this probably won't last long because the savvy private traders also keep their eye on ebay pricing.
So, yes, I think a levelling of prices is very close.
 
The market is certainly moving into uncharted territory re. second division cameras. Whereas it was only plum Leicas and Nikons that held much value, there's a wider awareness of quality kit now, leading to higher prices.
 
eBay is weird.

TBH, I'm finding some regular retailers are cheaper than eBay at the minute. It was cheaper for me to pop into Mr Cad in Croydon last weekend to get some FD lens caps and hoods than the prices they were going for on eBay, not including postage. While it doesn't have a reputation for being madly expensive, Mr Cad is equally not known for being especially bargain basement.

There are some FD lenses (85mm f/1.8, 35mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 in particular) that are going for silly prices on eBay, for what they are. I've seen 85mm f/1.8s going for £300, when you can buy an E+ one from a shop like Ffordes for £100.
 
Last edited:
Just my luck to have developed an interest in film at this particular moment.
 
Though on the topic of lenses, I think m4/3 is starting to have a significant impact on market prices for older glass. I did come across a thread on an m4/3 forum where people were talking about the FD kit they owned and quite a number seemed to have just about every lens Canon made in the 1970s, including all the 'L's.

Possibly more money than sense...
 
Though on the topic of lenses, I think m4/3 is starting to have a significant impact on market prices for older glass. I did come across a thread on an m4/3 forum where people were talking about the FD kit they owned and quite a number seemed to have just about every lens Canon made in the 1970s, including all the 'L's.

Possibly more money than sense...

I'll agree about the m4/3 market opening up the use of legacy lenses to the digital peeps, I'm considering getting a G1 or such like in the future for using all of mine on too!
 
It's like vinyl, early adopters chopped everything in for CDs, then thought WTF have I done?!? I bet there's a lot of camera nuts who flogged their analogue kit for buttons in the early noughties and want their old glass back. And then think 'I quite liked that old camera'. Basically film cameras reached insanely low prices, with F100 Nikons going for fifty quid or less. That couldn't last.
 
eBay is weird.

TBH, I'm finding some regular retailers are cheaper than eBay at the minute.

Me too - Ujjwal found me an excellent Konishiroku IIIa for at least 1/3rd of the price I would have expected to pay for it on the bay, I mean yes it was not perfect but I had a replacement viewfinder surround in the bit box...

Pricey kit will always be pricey - and I am not talking Leica but rather the f5/f6/EOS1V/Dynax9/etc. types - maybe people are as has been said realising that those cameras that had no street cred back then (when it was important) and actually rather nice little beasties after all and therefore worth a punt. Older (pre-1950) will always go to the collectors, I am guilty of this myself, but newer models are clearly seeing a renaissance that is buoying the film market everywhere.

It's true that there appears no new films being developed but it would be nice to see some from the early satellite era being made available with their silly-low grain, rather than just releasing vaguely different colour emulsions! Maybe this boost in film camera sales will see something like that happening... look at the Impossible Project after all!
 
I think the issue with EBay is that people think if its on therem then it has to be a bargin. However you have to know your prices on most things, because as pointed out the bargins are getting harder to find.

Yep film bodies, lens etc are slowly creeping up in price as the fashion for all things old or analogue pushes up the prices.

Wish I had got a Nikon 135mm f2 AIs lens a couple of years ago, can't find one now.
 
I thought I was been so different but it looks like I've jumped on the bandwagon just at the wrong time.

I ditched my EOS1 and Mamiya 645 around 2004 thinking I'd never use it again!
Well in the past couple of months I've bought a 5x4 field camera, 3 lenses, a jobo CPP film processor and all the bits that I'd sold years ago.

Was a really nice feeling cracking open the drum after I'd processed my first b+w film for years, the excitement never leaves you :)

I've gone back to film as I want to shoot my own projects, but much as I love my job, I don't want it to be like work.
You have to look at the world very differently when using sheet film, it's nice to slow down and not shoot thinking not everything can be blended in PS :)

From looking around the forums the bottom of the market was around 2005/6. Jobo rotary film processors are going for lots more than they were a few years ago, but if you look hard enough there are bargains still to be had ;)

And dare I say it, compared to the 1dsmk3, film has a nicer quality to it....I haven't done any portraits yet but looking forward to getting out the TRI-X again, and thank Koday they still make it!!!!


PS Without going too far off topic, try PP your scans in Capture1/lightroom/ACR, loads better than PS alone.
 
Last edited:
And dare I say it, compared to the 1dsmk3 film has a nicer quality to it....


yay1.gif
 
I may be wrong but it seems to be the mnual kit that is starting to show a price increase both bodies and lenses,the lens reason is obvious as more people realise that seriously good manual lenses can be easily adapted to use on their DSLR's but why the bodies I have no idea.Strangeley AF film bodies seem pretty static certainly Canon as I am looking to get hold of an EOS 600 so a trawling ebay at present,
 
There are still some great bargains to be had, just they are a bit fewer and far between.

I used to use all Minolta gear and you can still get a lot of their stuff for next to nothing. Just recently I've bought a couple of original Minolta 7000's, one for £7 and the other for £1.20!!! Both without lenses.

Put a film through one with a basic 28-100 lens off a Dynax 40 (body and lens bought for £20), got the results back yesterday and have to say I was gobsmacked with the results. The sharpness of the prints was amazing (done at club35), the results were not really that far off what I was getting with my old Canon Pro Digital body and L series lenses!!

Btw CaptainPenguin.... I'm going to be selling some EOS 650's soon and I do also have a spare EOS 600 body. I'll be putting an ad up in the classifieds in the not too distant future as I have a lot of duplicate bodies and want to get some new stuff!!
 
Canon AF bodies do seem to have stayed pretty static in price over the last 12-15 months, I'm pretty sure that I'd get the same for my EOS-3 as I paid for it last year, but I'm not about to. Sadly, the EOS-1v's also seem to be remaining static, at around double what I'd be prepared to pay for one :( I suppose that using the Canon EF lens system means that the low-end film bodies are only really a bargain for someone who's already bought into the canon lens system - otherwise you're bidding against people who happily drop a couple of grand on a new body every 18 months :shrug:

FWIW, I think that one of the better priced EOS film bodies at the moment is the EOS-30 - I just picked one up for £25, but they seem to go for no more than £50 on fleabay, and for that it's a belting little film body - the final generation film version of the AF (same generation as the EOS-1V but fewer points), built in flash (for those who are used to having it from Dijikal) and works with the E-TTL II external flash (for those who aren't used to built in) All in a package that current xxD users will be very familiar with.
 
Last edited:
TBH, I'm finding some regular retailers are cheaper than eBay at the minute.

Case in point: I just ordered a tidy Canon FDn 17mm f/4 from Canterbury Cameras for £89. 3 month warranty and a 7-day no-quibble returns policy.

Look on eBay and they're frequently BiN for £200-£400 (though to be fair Mifsuds also have one at £279)

:)
 
Canon FD glass is one of the few quality lens systems that can still be had for sensible money. It's not too antique, there was plently of it made and it's generally looked after - unlike a lot of ebay Nikkors that have been Pro'd into the ground. Only exotic aperture stuff goes for serious wonga.
 
...and some guys pay high prices for lenses (and cameras) that are better than they are a photographer.
 
local charity shops are always a good place to look. I have picked up 4 really nice film camera's for less than 5 pounds each.
 
Now I am really going to sulk like I said earlier about Car Boot sales all I see in charity shops are plastic 35mm compacts

Me too. There were 35mm SLRs in our local charity shops till about four years ago, but they go to central clearing for evaluation now, like quality books do. The rest are plastic lens P&S jobs that live in a box under the counter and they still want a fiver for them.
Supermarket ads are worth a look because they tend to be used by low-fi kinda people who just want shut of their stuff.
 
Now I am really going to sulk like I said earlier about Car Boot sales all I see in charity shops are plastic 35mm compacts

...but did find a mint Canon FDn 50mm f1.8 for £2.99 in a pawnbroker shop...he has other lenses there too but poorly displayed and can't see what they are :nono: :wacky: and the shopkeeper has to climb around a lot of gear to get to them, so will not be pleased him showing me different ones to decide while other customers are waiting :thumbsdown: :shrug:
 
I don't know. Most of our local charity shops, and the people at the only boot sale in the area (20 miles away), seem to have completely unrealistic expectations. 25 - 40 quid for Instamatics and 35mm P & S with fixed plastic lenses and exposure controlled by sun, cloud and lightning bolt symbols?
 
I don't know. Most of our local charity shops, and the people at the only boot sale in the area (20 miles away), seem to have completely unrealistic expectations. 25 - 40 quid for Instamatics and 35mm P & S with fixed plastic lenses and exposure controlled by sun, cloud and lightning bolt symbols?

Well it's all luck, but the London area might be better because there's more people, against that there are more people to snatch up the bargains esp e.g. if on the bay and it's pick up only.
 
i visit a few charity shops in hertfordshire and from time to time they have a few film slr's that I snap up. The ratio is usually 1 film slr to 20 p&s cameras. They now put them aside for me, so I don't have to search through everytime, because they say I am the only one who comes looking for them. I generally pay a couple of pounds extra, so they know their efforts aren't wasted. The British Heart Foundation never has anything good as it goes to central clearing, but Oxfam and the more regional charities always have gear worth checking out.
 
i visit a few charity shops in hertfordshire and from time to time they have a few film slr's that I snap up. The ratio is usually 1 film slr to 20 p&s cameras. They now put them aside for me, so I don't have to search through everytime, because they say I am the only one who comes looking for them. I generally pay a couple of pounds extra, so they know their efforts aren't wasted. The British Heart Foundation never has anything good as it goes to central clearing, but Oxfam and the more regional charities always have gear worth checking out.

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/results.aspx?search=cameras

Nikon/Tamron adapters cheaper than ebay
 
don't know about the adapters but the camera prices are cosmic ! :LOL:



Once they had a Tamron 90mm macro going cheapish, so I put the word out on the forums but all I've bought from Oxfam are a few kid's toys and a very nice black leather jacket for £4.
 
sure they can maybe have some bargains, but overall it seems to be overpriced place. don't they get the stuff donated for free ?
 
Case in point: I just ordered a tidy Canon FDn 17mm f/4 from Canterbury Cameras for £89. 3 month warranty and a 7-day no-quibble returns policy.

Look on eBay and they're frequently BiN for £200-£400 (though to be fair Mifsuds also have one at £279)

:)

:razz: Been after one for ages!, look forward to seeing some of your shots with it! :D
 
:razz: Been after one for ages!, look forward to seeing some of your shots with it! :D

I'll keep you posted. I was out using it with my EF yesterday lunch time, but I still have a few frames left on the roll.

When I phoned them up I was half expecting to disappoint me with some story that the price was a typo :D
 
Last edited:
don't know about the adapters but the camera prices are cosmic ! :LOL:


Don't for get they have all the admin costs to fund, before anything actually goes to help the needy :thumbsdown:
 
Don't for get they have all the admin costs to fund, before anything actually goes to help the needy :thumbsdown:


yup ! that's why I think it's just a load of B/S .

there was an interview in Times with the ceo from one of those shops and he said that they have a plan to change it into a chain shop type rather that charity shop . they make loads of money though, but the question is - how much do they pay top staff etc.

there was a recent scandal about one charity, the books showed that they've only actually donated 100k after the staff pays, ad compaigns etc. and the money that came in was in millions.



Unicef is the way to go.

and p.s. - I have donated, unfortunately in small amounts due to not getting a lot of money at the moment.
 
I dont donate

I keep my karma by actually personally helping people that need it (y)
 
My mum works in an Oxfam and a few months ago she brought a pile of stuff for me to value for them, it was really quite specialist stuff like focus screens from a Nikon F3, Rollei lenses etc.
I gave pretty conservative estimates because the stuff was to be sold in the shop rather than through the online site as "noone can be bothered listing the stuff".
I managed to snag an LC37 77mm filter for a tenner and there was a Canon 75-300 lens that I'd valued at a tenner as it was untested.
I asked my mum to buy the Canon lens recently when I picked up a 1D but she couldn't find it in the shop, turns out that because noone could be bothered listing the items on the website, they got recycled!
They are VERY picky about what they will sell in the shops, about 50% of the donations get binned because they don't match up to the guidelines.
As a business model it's flawless though, get stock for free, get 99% of staff for free, make nominal donations to 'worthwhile causes' and pocket the rest!
 
Back
Top