Having trouble with printer accuracy

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John.D

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John
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Hey all,

I own a good photo printer, Canon IPixma 6700D, i'm using Photo Paper Pro, and Photoshop CS2 to print, and I can never get the printer to print the colours I see on screen, sometimes it's so dull it's not worthy of looking at.

I've tried lots of different settings, using let printer determin colours, or let photoshop determin colours, sometimes makes the print better but it is never accurate. I would have thought the best option would be to select let photoshop determin colours, put the printer profile in the drop-down box below that option to PR1, because that's the photo paper I use, and then in the printer settings disable any colour correction, as it has a mind of it's own. However this still makes dull results. I've been told to work with a CMYK space but this seems to make no difference.

The best printout I get is when I use let printer determin colours, and then setting the colours in the printer options to auto, but obviously I don't want to use this option because I don't know what will come out.

It would be great to get some advice, as I am wasting so much paper and ink on bad printouts :(
 
You need to calibrate your monitor.

I need to do it myself so I can't can't help you I'm afraid.

But there are some programs that can do it. Theres Adobe Gamma too which comes with photoshop, I think.
 
I've tried using the Adobe gamma, but got confused at the 'phosphors' section or whatever it's called. I used an image optimisation tool that comes with the NVidia driver, but that hasn't seemed to help.
 
Try no colour management worked for me :)also are you using compatable inks or originals as compatables slightly differ
 
I've tried that too, no help :( I'd like to also add that I use a LCD screen (not a CRT), although i'm tempted to fire up Photoshop on my computer that has a CRT, see if I get better results.

And I am using official Canon inks (it's a canon 6700d)
 
I don't think you are going to get much consistency unless you profile the monitors, LCD or CRT. OK you can mess around with different settings but in the end all you are doing is making the ink manufacturer richer
 
Hi, sorry how do you mean 'profile the monitors'?

I also tried printing from my other PC, which uses a CRT screen, colour was perhaps a bit better, but overall I still think the best result has been on this PC (my main one) and setting it to 'printer determin colours', and colour settings to 'auto', which i'm not too fond of but it looks like I have little choice :(
 
To get accurate colour you need

a) a hardware device to profile and calibrate your display (huey, spyder, etc)
b) the correct profiles installed for your printer/paper combination
c) s/w that has colour management and is set up to use it.

At the moment you are missing step one, search the forums for huey or spyder as there have been lots of threads about these devices and should help you figure out if you want to get one and which.
 
Hmm, those gadgets seem pretty expensive. So with the monitor calibrated with one of them, and having the other settings set up correctly in Photoshop (which are at the moment but just refusing to print accurately) I will be able to get better printouts, right?
 
Yes, but what will happen is your prints will be the same as they are now - it's the monitor that will change.

Colour management isn't about matching print to screen or screen to print but having the correct profiles for print and screen so the s/w can properly translate how the colours in the image are rendered on each device.
 
John.D said:
Hmm, those gadgets seem pretty expensive. So with the monitor calibrated with one of them, and having the other settings set up correctly in Photoshop (which are at the moment but just refusing to print accurately) I will be able to get better printouts, right?
Click to expand...

There was a thread about this same thing last week. I suggested buying one from ebay usa. You can get one delivered to you house for under £50. I have a huey pro and I am really happy with it.
 
Just had a try printing it in Word, using different printer settings (I guess to see if it was just Photoshop causing the problems). Colour correction set to none in printer settings came out very dull, setting it to auto was better, and setting it to ICM profile ADOBE RGB 1998 was the best of the three. Neither appear like I see on the screen.

I don't know if this is important, but when I set it to CMYK space in Photoshop, and then click on 'gamut warning', pretty much all of the red colour is greyed. It is a very rich red, maybe it simply can't be printed? (the photo only has black and white, and rich red colours, nothing else) - the picture i'm trying to print is a larger, complete version of my avatar.
 
If you get your monitor calibrated then you can proof images as they'd print and make changes to get the print you want. But until you're calibrated it will be guesswork.
 
You can change settings all over the place but it won't help one bit until you get your monitor profiled. Even if you do get a good print, the minute you look at the next pic it will all be all over the place again. Consistency is what you need so you can reproduce what's on your screen out of your printer.

(Goes off to recalibrate her monitor because it's overdue and hence I'm printing too dark!)
 
How are you going to calibrate AliB?

Just so you guys know, my gallery is here - www.iamphoto.deviantart.com
The shot is the fourth one in my 'recent deviations', you'll know which one because of the pain in the arse red :)
 
Monitors and computers are often setup to give bright and puncy colours (often with lots of blue) but these colours are not realistic. If your tuning a photo to how you are viewing it through a inaccurate monitor, any prints you make from these images may well look incorrect.

First thing to do is to buy or borrow a monitor calibrator such as a Spyder or Huey.
 
Just an update, quite boring so bare with it :)

I used Adobe gamma on my CRT monitor, thought I may as well try this method before splashing out on the fancy device, calibrated it best I could and then changed settings in Photoshop, using a helpful colour management article on the net.

I went into custom proof settings and set my 'device to stimulate' to my photo paper type (6700D PR1), and set 'rendering intent' to relative colometric, and then checked proof colours.
I then went into colour settings, changed 'RGB' to 'Adobe RGB', and left the other settings the same (CMYK US Web SWOP2 something or other, etc).
I then went into 'assign profile' and set it to 6700D PR1

In Print Preview, I set it to 'Let Photoshop Determin Colours', set the printer profile to 6700D PR1, and Rendering Intent to Relative Colometric.
I set the printer to disable any colour correction.


Results were maybe slightly better, but they were not nearly as rich as seen on the screen.
 
To be honest. I know nothing about this subject, but am pleased with my current setup which is:
CS2 - colour settings : North America General Purpose 2. RGB : sRGB IEC6 1966-2.1

I do not have any colour management configured for my LG L1750SQ [LCD] monitor. (works for me)

I have an HP 7660 printer [nothing special] and when I do print the occasional glossy print, I have learned to push the saturation up a bit in either Adobe Bridge or Lightroom, and print from the RAW format or .psd but never in .jpg. RAW gives me a higher quality print, but if you want to edit and enhance a shot in PS, then printing should be done from the .psd file.
I've prinetd on canvas and on coated paper on a wide format printer using these guidlines, and I've been pleased with the results.
 
Thanks for the info. The pictures i'm printing are JPGs, could that be the problem? I'm not sure :/
 
John.D said:
Thanks for the info. The pictures i'm printing are JPGs, could that be the problem? I'm not sure :/
Click to expand...

Trial and error. Try some small stuff and see what happens. :1st:
 
Trust me, I have! I've wasted so much ink and packs of paper on 'small stuff', all printed in different settings.
 
Back to basics.

Copy and paste this image:

sRGB_chart.jpg


into photoshop.

Top row can you see a difference between the 1st and 2nd dark squares?

If not adjust the monitor brightness all the way down and then bring it up until you can see a difference.

Likewise the 3rd and 4th light squares. If not adjust the contrast all the way up and then bring it down until you see a difference. You've now got the black and white points about right. Run Adobe Gamma again.

Now if you squint do outer areas on all the other squares appear to have the same brightness? If not the gamma still isn't right, report back with all the settings/choices you made for Adobe Gamma. If yes how does the screen compare to one of your prints?
 
But at the same time, I think this has a lot to do with settings in PS and printer, as any change to any setting seems to change the colours. Do the settings I have set a few posts ago sound correct? Shouldn't I have CMYK set in proof rather than my photo paper type? And why is it I have to keep auto colour correction on in printer settings to ensure any sort of good (but not accurate) colour. Disabling it just makes it dull.
 
Auto colour in the print will override ICM so it should be turned off.

You're approaching this from the wrong direction by trying to get your prints to match what you see on screen. Colour management doesn't work that way - it's about getting consistent colour across all devices by adhering to a standard.

The image "lives" in its own colour space, sRGB for example. Software then translates those colours to look right on your screen/printer via the profiles, if you don't have the right profiles then the s/w can't do the correct translation. It's a bit like english>german when in fact you should be doing english>french. In order to get screen and print to match you MUST have the right profiles for both and then let the s/w do the right thing.

As stated previously, until you get your display properly calibrated with a h/w device you won't have a decent profile for your monitor. Adobe Gamma does very little to adjust the colour, it only really deals with white and black points and the gamma ramp.

Basic settings for Photoshop are:

Working space: sRGB
Proofing: Your printer profile, Perceptual
Don't assign profiles to an image, this is only for when you know it's in the wrong space and need to change it. Normally you should leave the image in its native space of sRGB (leave AdobeRGB well alone for now).

When you to come print the settings you used are about right, but make sure the printer has ICM disabled and isn't doing any other kind of corrections.

But at the risk of repeating myself, none of this will work until you have a decent profile for your monitor, right now PS thinks it speaks english and isn't translating anything when in fact it probably speaks ancient greek.
 
John D.
Leave the settings as RGB. Although you may have a printer that uses Cyan, Magenta , Yellow ( and combinations of them ) plus black, the printer is acting like an RGB machine. The printer driver converts that data for the printer in question. So leave it set to RGB.

Now as been said before,unless you've got your monitor calibrated you are going to have problems with getting correct colours. The monitor calibration and profiling does a number of things. It will first allow you to set the correct screen brightness and contrast. Next it will calibrate the monitor, to ensure the response is as linear as possible. It often happens that the response of the monitor to each channel R,G,B is not linear. And whilst you can get all 3 to match at one point, they don't over the full brightness range. Next it will generate a profile which tells the software, what the monitor ( and video card) are able to produce.

Ideally you should also profile your printer, but in many cases most manufacturers profiles are reasonable good enough, for a start anyway. Trying to tweak settings in Photoshop or the printer controls are going to leave you fed up, frustrated, and a lot poorer.

To be honest, if you are keen on photography, want to print your own pictures, the first accessory you need to buy after the camera and printer , is not a new lens or case , but a monitor calibration tool. OK it's not sexy, it wont help you take better pictures but it will help you enjoy you photography . The Huey is around £50.00 so whilst not cheap, isn't expensive.

Check out the various threads on this site where other people have had the same difficulties as you, bought a Huey, Spider or Eye One, and were amazed at the difference it makes.

I've been using calibrated monitor systems now for well over 15 years now and wouldn't dream of doing any serious work on images without it.

John C
 
OK, i'll look into getting a Huey ASAP. I got a lot of responses on other forums that all said I need to be working in CMYK colourspace. Although, am I right in thinking this is not correct? You've just told me I need to work in sRGB, and have proofing set to (if i'm understanding correctly) 6700D PR1 (my printer / paper type)
 
When you convert to CMYK Photoshop looks at what you've set the default CMYK profile to in the colour preferences. These a press preferences with certain predetermined values. Just run the cursor over the CMYK option in Colour settings and see what the parameters are. You'll find they are nothing to do with your printer.

Check out the following link. It's Ian Lyons Computer Darkroom web site. It shows how to set Photoshop up for printing. OK it's on a Mac but the dialogue is the same but the screen may look different. Also it's for Epson printers but I'm sure Canon have similar functions.

http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_1.htm
 
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