Yes, that could work. Hadn't thought of that. Would the 18-105 be a lot better than an 18-55?
Help choosing a DSLR and lens..
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Yes, that could work. Hadn't thought of that. Would the 18-105 be a lot better than an 18-55?
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Low light, same whether you go 18-55 & 55-200 or 18-200. Only getting a 2.8 lens or equivalent would help there (but ££££ and a whole different subject
).You've just about summed it up. 18-200, you get the whole range in one lens, you wo't miss a shot. Granted, optically its not a pro lens, but neither are the 18-55 or 55-200. All three of those lenses have flaws across various ends of the range because they are budget lenses, some would argue the 18-200 has more flaws because its an all-in-one solution.
As you can see from the shot I posted earlier in the thread though, the 18-200 can still take good shots. But the same can be said of the 18-55 and 55-200, they will still take good pictures on a D3100.
Not sure why you are confused about wide angle. The 18-200 works at 18mm (wide) and the 18-55 exactly the same. Have you been to a store to look at these lenses working? If not, i'd head down there so you can familiarise yourself with the kit. It might even make your mind up whether you want the one lens or two lens combo?
There is no real optical difference between the mk1 and mk2. Uncle Ken goes into detail here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18200.htm
But you'll pay less for a mk1 than a mk2, even though there is no real difference between the two. I have the mk.1
Hope this helps.
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I would personally just buy the d3100 with its 18-55 kit lens for £300- £350 and go from there. After a month or so you will know what you want. You may find you need a wider lens rather than a tele for example. You are only paying £50ish extra for the kit lens over the body only option. You could get this back selling it on if you find its not the lens for you.
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Mk2 has had "zoom creep" issue fixed - when zooming the lens will extend outward in a telescope like fashion, and the problem with many MK1s was that the lens extended under its own weight when you simply carry your switched off camera on the shoulder strap. MK2 had a lock switch fitted iirc, and stiffened up the zoom travel.
If I were in your shoes, I'd go Canon to be honest- Canon lenses are more suited to budget oriented as they tend to be cheaper like-for-like. Also many megapixel sensors will actually result in poorer shots when combined with budget optics, compared to same optics with fewer megapixels sensors - as was mentioned above. So you may not need the newer DSLR for budget zooms, indeed they may be counter-productive.
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..still stuck on this...!
I've discovered the Cannon 600 D and I love it. It's an awesome body but it's too dam expensive. So I suppose I'll just have to get used to the small Nikon 3100 body. As many of you have said, it's still a great camera.
Having taken into account what others have said, a used Nikon 18-200 is top of my short list at the moment. That said, I'm giving some thought to other zoom ranges too, maybe even a combo. Just need something to get me started but can't decide what.
What about Sigma / Tameron, particularly the newer models, which many reviewers say have been improved? How much will I notice the difference over say, an equivalent Nikon?
On a budget of £500/£550 (for a starter kit, body and lens, or two) what other lenses might you consider?
Is the 18-55 kit lens inferior, or just smaller and therefore cheaper?
Many thanks again.
Ben
I've discovered the Cannon 600 D and I love it. It's an awesome body but it's too dam expensive. So I suppose I'll just have to get used to the small Nikon 3100 body. As many of you have said, it's still a great camera.
Having taken into account what others have said, a used Nikon 18-200 is top of my short list at the moment. That said, I'm giving some thought to other zoom ranges too, maybe even a combo. Just need something to get me started but can't decide what.
What about Sigma / Tameron, particularly the newer models, which many reviewers say have been improved? How much will I notice the difference over say, an equivalent Nikon?
On a budget of £500/£550 (for a starter kit, body and lens, or two) what other lenses might you consider?
Is the 18-55 kit lens inferior, or just smaller and therefore cheaper?
Many thanks again.
Ben
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Hi Ben, it's fun yet frustrating choosing new gear sometimes ....
The Canon 600D is a step above the Nikon D3100, the equivalent Nikon would be the D5100.
If you haven't already, try and handle a couple of camera bodies, much better to get one you like handling as you will use it more. Also don't be afraid to buy used, you won't have access to the forums classifieds yet but there are plenty of good stores online that do used gear and with warranties, Gray's offer a 12 month warranty for example but only do Nikon gear.
The Nikkor 18-200 is a decent enough lens, I don't like it as it has too many compromises for me and I don't mind changing lenses, but that doesn't mean you can't take good photos with it. As an aside we buy DSLR's because we can change lenses, then stick a super zoom on so we don't have to - seems a bit odd to me ...
The best bang for buck lens is the Nikkor 35mm DX f1.8 lens, cheap, yet really rather good! Can't speak for Canon kit lenses (I shoot Nikon) but the Nikon ones are ok, albeit inexpensive and with plastic mounts. Of the off brand lenses I liked teh Tamron 17-50mm Non VC model, only used now and about £250 ish I think, but a great lens and f2.8 through the range ...
I also like wide angle lenses and all of the manufacturers make good ones with possibly the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 being the best though you would need to buy the latest mkII version as it has a focus motor in it.
It is impossible to really tell you what to get as at the moment you won't know what you really need (no offence intended). Heck I'm not sure I know what I really need
Getting an entry level DSLR like the D3100 with the kit lens is a good starting point (doesn't matter really if it is Canon or Nikon either) ... then get out and start taking photos, in a few months you will have a much better idea of what it is you want from your gear.
You can often find kits that come with two lenses, usually an 18-55 and a 50-200 or 50-250mm lens, these are imo great starting points.
Either way good luck and hope you enjoy!!
The Canon 600D is a step above the Nikon D3100, the equivalent Nikon would be the D5100.
If you haven't already, try and handle a couple of camera bodies, much better to get one you like handling as you will use it more. Also don't be afraid to buy used, you won't have access to the forums classifieds yet but there are plenty of good stores online that do used gear and with warranties, Gray's offer a 12 month warranty for example but only do Nikon gear.
The Nikkor 18-200 is a decent enough lens, I don't like it as it has too many compromises for me and I don't mind changing lenses, but that doesn't mean you can't take good photos with it. As an aside we buy DSLR's because we can change lenses, then stick a super zoom on so we don't have to - seems a bit odd to me ...
The best bang for buck lens is the Nikkor 35mm DX f1.8 lens, cheap, yet really rather good! Can't speak for Canon kit lenses (I shoot Nikon) but the Nikon ones are ok, albeit inexpensive and with plastic mounts. Of the off brand lenses I liked teh Tamron 17-50mm Non VC model, only used now and about £250 ish I think, but a great lens and f2.8 through the range ...
I also like wide angle lenses and all of the manufacturers make good ones with possibly the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 being the best though you would need to buy the latest mkII version as it has a focus motor in it.
It is impossible to really tell you what to get as at the moment you won't know what you really need (no offence intended). Heck I'm not sure I know what I really need
Getting an entry level DSLR like the D3100 with the kit lens is a good starting point (doesn't matter really if it is Canon or Nikon either) ... then get out and start taking photos, in a few months you will have a much better idea of what it is you want from your gear.
You can often find kits that come with two lenses, usually an 18-55 and a 50-200 or 50-250mm lens, these are imo great starting points.
Either way good luck and hope you enjoy!!
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Have you been to a store & handled the Canon & Nikons (& Sonys & Pentax)?
If not go & do so.
There is no bad current production DSLR in terms of imaging, what more money buys you is more buttons & dials, a few more features & better build quality.
They do however vary in their handling & probably 1 out of them will just feel more natural to you (albeit you can train yourself to use anything).
Some options Sony A37 +18-55+55-200= under £500
Pentax K-30, a bit dearer but a bargain for what it offers compared to a Canon or Nikon. Again with a 18-55+55-200 kit under £600.
However, re your budget - you will also need to buy a memory card of some format, a bag & I recommend a lens pen & a rocket blower.
If not go & do so.
There is no bad current production DSLR in terms of imaging, what more money buys you is more buttons & dials, a few more features & better build quality.
They do however vary in their handling & probably 1 out of them will just feel more natural to you (albeit you can train yourself to use anything).
Some options Sony A37 +18-55+55-200= under £500
Pentax K-30, a bit dearer but a bargain for what it offers compared to a Canon or Nikon. Again with a 18-55+55-200 kit under £600.
However, re your budget - you will also need to buy a memory card of some format, a bag & I recommend a lens pen & a rocket blower.
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600D is pretty much a 550D/T2i with a flip screen. 550D can be had for around £250 second hand. If you love the 600D, just get its cheaper brother- its an awesome camera. Much better than 3100 for movies as well
- if you decide to shoot them sometime.
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Best advice is go and try out some cameras and may get just a body and single lens for your £550 rather than compromising on 2 average lenses which you'll more than likely change (upgrade) a few months down the line.Thank you all again for your helpful suggestions.
I've been into a number of shops and tried out every brand going. The favourite was the Cannon 600D, but I think a saving with a view to better glass would be sensible. So it's looking like it's going to be the Nikon 3100. I think I'll get used to the smaller body, and I think the guide mode has a slight edge over the Cannon.
I've decided on a single lens over a two lens solution. Bit cheaper and less waste if I upgrade in a few months time.
I've also decided that I'll be shooting mostly landscapes, action shots of people, and the odd portrait.
As many of you have said, super zooms are a compromise, so it all comes down to one thing: how much zoom do I really need to get me started?
As a novice, I don't really know the answer. Any thoughts?
The Nikon 18-105 has reasonable reviews and is within budget? Otherwise it's a used Nikon 18-200 or one of newer, better Sigma equivalents....?
Ahhhhh...this never gets any easier!
Many thanks again.
I've been into a number of shops and tried out every brand going. The favourite was the Cannon 600D, but I think a saving with a view to better glass would be sensible. So it's looking like it's going to be the Nikon 3100. I think I'll get used to the smaller body, and I think the guide mode has a slight edge over the Cannon.
I've decided on a single lens over a two lens solution. Bit cheaper and less waste if I upgrade in a few months time.
I've also decided that I'll be shooting mostly landscapes, action shots of people, and the odd portrait.
As many of you have said, super zooms are a compromise, so it all comes down to one thing: how much zoom do I really need to get me started?
As a novice, I don't really know the answer. Any thoughts?
The Nikon 18-105 has reasonable reviews and is within budget? Otherwise it's a used Nikon 18-200 or one of newer, better Sigma equivalents....?
Ahhhhh...this never gets any easier!
Many thanks again.
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Both of these would be good, 18-200 would be more fun simply due to the range it covers, 18-105 would be more consistently sharp (remember that the bigger the zoom range, the bigger the optical compromises). For me, the biggest reason to shoot big bulky DSLR is to get tack sharp pictures with wow factor, so if I were in your shoes I'd go for a prime lens to start with...
Given the choice of 2 zooms, I'd go for the consistently sharper one (18-105) as well - but thats purely my subjective "logic".
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I'm a tad confused here, which is not uncommon you say the Canon 600D was your favourite, but you are going to get a Nikon D3100 instead? Then you talk about upgrading later, but to what? If you are planning to go Canon later then you will have to sell all your Nikon gear including lenses ... if these are bought new then you will lose a fair wedge of money. If you plan to stay with Nikon, then it's no worry really (unless going full frame). If the Canon feels the best then I'd seriously consider getting that, even if it meant getting a used copy ...
To answer your question re lenses, any of the 18-xxx lenses will be fine, but if I were choosing between an 18-105 or an 18-200 I'd take the 18-105, in truth you are not really losing too much in terms of zoom range as the 18-200 is a heavy breather - I've used both lenses too and preferred the 18-105.
you say the Canon 600D was your favourite, but you are going to get a Nikon D3100 instead? Then you talk about upgrading later, but to what? If you are planning to go Canon later then you will have to sell all your Nikon gear including lenses ... if these are bought new then you will lose a fair wedge of money. If you plan to stay with Nikon, then it's no worry really (unless going full frame). If the Canon feels the best then I'd seriously consider getting that, even if it meant getting a used copy ...To answer your question re lenses, any of the 18-xxx lenses will be fine, but if I were choosing between an 18-105 or an 18-200 I'd take the 18-105, in truth you are not really losing too much in terms of zoom range as the 18-200 is a heavy breather - I've used both lenses too and preferred the 18-105.
I'm a tad confused here, which is not uncommon
Oh yes...rereading my last post, I see I was a bit vague
. Sorry...what I meant was upgrading to a different sort of lens. Not planning to upgrade the body any time soon. I have a feeling you may be right about the Cannon. There's actually nothing technical to it..ultra responsive, and I just like the build and feel better. It's more solid- strikes me as being the business for not a huge amount more money.
How helpful do you think Nikon's guide mode would be?
The 550D is almost exactly the same price as the 600 second hand, so may as well go for the 600. I can get a used 600D and Cannon 18-135 for £539: 100 quid saving on buying new.
Do you think that would be a good choice? Equally as good as the 18-105 Nikon?
Is buying used worth the saving? Or shall I just blow my budget and buy new...
If I can sell nice crisp pictures with my articles, it should pay for itself pretty quickly.Thank you very much again...
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That's very helpful, thank you. When you say not much, how smaller difference is 100mm in photography terms? How does that equate to what sort of distance I could cover?
Both of these would be good, 18-200 would be more fun simply due to the range it covers, 18-105 would be more consistently sharp (remember that the bigger the zoom range, the bigger the optical compromises). For me, the biggest reason to shoot big bulky DSLR is to get tack sharp pictures with wow factor, so if I were in your shoes I'd go for a prime lens to start with...
Great thanks, that makes sense. So the 18-105 would be sharper...and also brighter would it not, as would the Cannon 18-135 (in case I went for a used Cannon body)??
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Yep, I think this is good advice. 18-200 or 18-105/135?
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I have a D3100 and Nikon 35 1.8. You won't really need the newer body IMO. Save the
£££ for when you upgrade to a D7000/7100 one day.
£££ for when you upgrade to a D7000/7100 one day.
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The guide mode is a difficult one to answer, but people I know who have or had a D3100 soon out grew it.Oh yes...rereading my last post, I see I was a bit vague
I have a feeling you may be right about the Cannon. There's actually nothing technical to it..ultra responsive, and I just like the build and feel better. It's more solid- strikes me as being the business for not a huge amount more money.
How helpful do you think Nikon's guide mode would be?
The 550D is almost exactly the same price as the 600 second hand, so may as well go for the 600. I can get a used 600D and Cannon 18-135 for £539: 100 quid saving on buying new.
Do you think that would be a good choice? Equally as good as the 18-105 Nikon?
Is buying used worth the saving? Or shall I just blow my budget and buy new...
Thank you very much again...
As for buying used, if you buy from trusted sources then it is worth the savings for me. Some places offer varying warranty periods on used gear. Most, if not all, recent DSLR bodies are capable of producing very good images. Buying used allows you to look at higher end bodies, often for the same money as new entry level bodies, and the difference in handling can be significant, for example I don't like the way the D3100 feels, yet I really like the way the D7000 feels ...
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This needs a little explaining ... there is a huge difference in an extra 100mm when we are talking 100mm to 200mm ...
BUT the nikkor 18-200mm does not get out to 200mm when focussed on objects closer than around 50 metres away - at near focus it is only around a 135mm lens. This is what focus breathing means, i.e. it changes actual foal length in respect of distance to target. Many lenses do this to some extent, but the 18-200 does it quite a lot! As I said from above 50 metres or so it gives 200mm. As I said I wasn't impressed with my 18-200 or with the other ones I have used, perhaps that's just me as I know this lens has many fans. My favourite walkaround lens on Nikon DX is the 16-85mm VR as it goes a little wider than the 18-xxx versions.
As you may tell, I shoot Nikon, but I still believe that if the Canon 600D felt better that is the one to get (but do try a D7000 for handling
).Ok...so I'm going to buy a Nikon 3100. It's fine for what I need. There are a few little things, but I can live with them.
Decided against buying a used Nikon 18-200. I move around a lot, so I'd like an international warranty, and I just think either the latest Sigma 18-200 OS or Nikon 18-105 will do. I say this with a view to taking the advice of many members: getting used to the camera, learning to take good pictures, and then investing in some better kit once I really know what I want to do.
Between the 18-105 and Sigma 18-200 OS, here are the nuts and bolts.
1. The difference in zoom range is pretty small. But I think the 18-105 will focus closer and slightly faster??
2. The image quality of the Sigma is not great at the full 200mm.
3. Overall, the difference in image quality is VERY slight.
4. The 18-105 is a little bit lighter.
5. The Sigma is £75 more expensive.
Any thoughts? Anything significant I've missed?
Secondly, is there any point in me getting the 18-55 kit lens as well? It's only an extra £35, which seems like a bargain...
Many thanks again.
Ben
Decided against buying a used Nikon 18-200. I move around a lot, so I'd like an international warranty, and I just think either the latest Sigma 18-200 OS or Nikon 18-105 will do. I say this with a view to taking the advice of many members: getting used to the camera, learning to take good pictures, and then investing in some better kit once I really know what I want to do.
Between the 18-105 and Sigma 18-200 OS, here are the nuts and bolts.
1. The difference in zoom range is pretty small. But I think the 18-105 will focus closer and slightly faster??
2. The image quality of the Sigma is not great at the full 200mm.
3. Overall, the difference in image quality is VERY slight.
4. The 18-105 is a little bit lighter.
5. The Sigma is £75 more expensive.
Any thoughts? Anything significant I've missed?
Secondly, is there any point in me getting the 18-55 kit lens as well? It's only an extra £35, which seems like a bargain...
Many thanks again.
Ben
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As a recent starter myself still under 1 year, I started with a D3100 18-55 and 55-200 and I have to say it was a great setup, the thing you need to take on board is in the early days its not the kit that needs to be great. You need to learn how to take good pics and learn the basics on a nice easy straight camera and the D3100 is that camera. Also twinned with a good book and voila.
All the kit being mentioned is good amatear kit some is 9/10 and some is 9.5/10 in your league its all trifling.
good pics is about good techniquique and you need that first.
Also bear in mind any lenses you buy can be used if you then change your body to say a D5100, D7000 etc.
I would say don't get to carried away and overwhelmed with the kit and specs etc at this point, with a nice D3100 body you can buy cheap use for a year and sell for barely a loss if you choose to upgrade.
my bag would be used D3100 with a kit 18-55 (if you can find a good deal substiute with an 18-105) with a 55-200 zoom.
nice bag cheap tripod and a good book like mastering the D3100 Snapshots to great shots Jeff Revell.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000O161X0/ref=nosim/?tag=hotukdeals-21
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-Digit...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1364124203&sr=1-3
I only recently moved on to a D7000 body as I wanted to use older lenses so needed an internal focus motor
All the kit being mentioned is good amatear kit some is 9/10 and some is 9.5/10 in your league its all trifling.
good pics is about good techniquique and you need that first.
Also bear in mind any lenses you buy can be used if you then change your body to say a D5100, D7000 etc.
I would say don't get to carried away and overwhelmed with the kit and specs etc at this point, with a nice D3100 body you can buy cheap use for a year and sell for barely a loss if you choose to upgrade.
my bag would be used D3100 with a kit 18-55 (if you can find a good deal substiute with an 18-105) with a 55-200 zoom.
nice bag cheap tripod and a good book like mastering the D3100 Snapshots to great shots Jeff Revell.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000O161X0/ref=nosim/?tag=hotukdeals-21
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-Digit...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1364124203&sr=1-3
I only recently moved on to a D7000 body as I wanted to use older lenses so needed an internal focus motor
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I know....maybe that doesn't follow logic. There's no photographic reason why I like it more. The Nikon fits the bill, I just don't like the feel of it as much. The Canon just feels right. But it's £150 more expensive, unless I look at used bodies. £400 just for the body is really pushing it.
Been at this for weeks and weeks, hours of research and I keep coming back to the Canon. It's driving me bonkers!
Do you think I would just get used to whatever I'm using? Or should I go with my feeling after trying both 500 times in 100 different shops?
What do you think?
Thanks again.
600D is pretty much a 550D/T2i with a flip screen. 550D can be had for around £250 second hand. If you love the 600D, just get its cheaper brother- its an awesome camera. Much better than 3100 for movies as well
Yep...great idea- but to be honest I haven't found it to be much of a saving. 550d is about £400 new, as it the 600d.
Tried Wex Photographic, Amazon and others. Any other ideas?
Thanks again.
Thanks for this suggestion. I'll have a look at that.
Can anyone suggests a reputable second hand dealer who offer decent warranties on used kit?
Would I still be covered by Canon, or only by the dealer I bought it from?
Thanks again.
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Does this mean "feel" shouldn't feature high on my list when making the final decision?
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For me at least I would say quite the reverse.
You are more likely to want to take pictures if you enjoy using the camera & if it feels wrong then you won't enjoy it. Imagine trying to drive a car where you couldn't reach the pedals yet the steering wheel was too close to your chest etc etc.
There is very little difference in performance between competing brands models at a similar level. However, if there is a unique feature that you really need/want then you can train yourself to use anything even if it does feel unnatural.
You are more likely to want to take pictures if you enjoy using the camera & if it feels wrong then you won't enjoy it. Imagine trying to drive a car where you couldn't reach the pedals yet the steering wheel was too close to your chest etc etc.
There is very little difference in performance between competing brands models at a similar level. However, if there is a unique feature that you really need/want then you can train yourself to use anything even if it does feel unnatural.
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Agree with above poster, feel in use is one of the most important things imo. When it comes to similarly priced and specified cameras they are all as good as each other in real world use - the difference becomes the photographer (i.e. you!) If you like using it, you will use it, if you don't, you will always feel frustrated (well I would!!). Even though I am a Nikon user I would say spend the extra £150 and get the Canon ....
Well...I've finally got a camera! What a relief! Can not believe how hard it is choosing a first camera...!
Went for the Canon in the end, which blew by budget completely out of the water, but I have to say, I don't regret it. Feel like I made the right choice and that all the hard work paid off.
Just wanted to say a BIG thank you to all those who have taken the time to give me lots of helpful tips and advice. You have been so helpful, I really appreciate it.
Will defiantly be an active member of the forum. I'll decently be able to have a view on the ups and downs of buying a DSLR, that's for sure.
Can't wait to get out and take pictures....that's what these things are for after all!
Went for the Canon in the end, which blew by budget completely out of the water, but I have to say, I don't regret it. Feel like I made the right choice and that all the hard work paid off.
Just wanted to say a BIG thank you to all those who have taken the time to give me lots of helpful tips and advice. You have been so helpful, I really appreciate it.
Will defiantly be an active member of the forum. I'll decently be able to have a view on the ups and downs of buying a DSLR, that's for sure.
Can't wait to get out and take pictures....that's what these things are for after all!
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hehe glad to hear it. fwiw I think you have made the right decision - now go and enjoy it