Help getting started with film.

Tyler138

Tyler138

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Alex Tyler
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Hey all,

The film side of it all has always intrigued me, have only shot digital, and looking at picking up a film camera to mess around with. I am wondering if anyone can recommend me a camera to get started with it all. Would like something with a light meter and AV mode as the basic requirements, don't mind shooting manual. What would be a good camera to start with for this.?

Also to get me started can I just shoot film and get a small scanner to get the images. I don't have to deal with any chemicals that way..?

Would something like this work for taking the film straight out and scanning.? http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet®-Ne...8&qid=1414175181&sr=8-1&keywords=film+scanner
 
im tempted to ask if this is a wind up ,,,,,,but as you say you've only shot digital ,,,,,,
you cant take the film straight out and scan it ,it has to be developed first
 
Alex I'm assuming from your avatar that you are what we would call a 'young person' and therefore have no knowledge at all of film?
Basically, once you have taken your shots the film has to be developed using chemicals before you can scan in the negatives onto your computer. The film is light sensitive and if you were to remove it from the cxamea in the light it would be ruined. There are many places where you can get film developed, including some Asda stores.
I don't know what make of camera you use but it would probably be an idea to get a film camera to fit your current lenses.
Of course if you are just taking the pee forget all the above:D

Andy​
 
Hi Alex, ignore them, they're being less than helpful... (I should mention, we're sometimes a bit rude to each other here but it's generally taken in good heart.)

First, DO NOT BUY THE SCANNER YOU LINKED TO! Got that? It's a carpy 5mp camera on a stand, and ignores pretty much everything that's important about scanning film.

Second, we have a thread just for you in the stickies! It should tell you quite a lot of what you need to know.

Third, there's another sticky about getting your films processed. ASDA was mentioned by @joxby, and is a good choice IFF the one near you does in-house processing.

Fourth, get a camera and try. You don't necessarily need a scanner yet, you can get scans done at time of processing. Any more questions, just ask!
 
Alex - it works like this:

A "film" a a long length of plastic coated on one side with an emulsion of light sensitive silver salts. On exposing a frame of film in the camera - the silver salts react to the light, forming a latent image. This image cannot be seen, nor exposed to further light - it has to remain in complete darkness until it has been chemically developed and then fixed. Even after this, it has to be dried before it can be handled.

Traditionally the developed negative film is then used to make positive prints, using light and photographic paper, which then has to be further chemically processed in a darkroom.

However, these days some of us opt instead to digitally scan the processed and dried negative - either printing digitally, or sharing online.

That scanner - I can't recommend it but others might. But before you can scan the film, it must first be chemically processed. This can be done by a professional lab, or when you learn how to, you might do it yourself.
 
Oh, the camera? Light meter and aperture priority, try a Pentax ME? Other cameras are available... the rest will tell you about various Nikons and the wonderful Olys, and Brian will tell you that the Canon Tsomethingorother is the best thing since sliced bread (which is carp, BTW)...
 
ChrisR said:
Oh, the camera? Light meter and aperture priority, try a Pentax ME? Other cameras are available... the rest will tell you about various Nikons and the wonderful Olys, and Brian will tell you that the Canon Tsomethingorother is the best thing since sliced bread (which is carp, BTW)...
Click to expand...
Hey, what about Bronica?

Yeah forgot about the camera. First choice - new or used. Yes they do still make film cameras, mainly in China, but I wouldn't recommend them unless "Lomo" is your thing.

So supposing you go for Used. Your next choice. Where from?
  • Ebay. Online auction cameras go either of two ways in my experience. You either end up with a dog of a broken camera sold as working, or sometimes you get lucky and buy a bargain. Be wary though of the prices in Buy it Now - many are inflated.
  • Film camera dealer. There are some with a good reputation. They should have inspected, maybe even have serviced the camera. They might even offer a limited warranty. However, with this service expect higher prices. They have a living to make.
  • Car boot sales. The hunting ground of the cheapskate like myself. Just be aware - a lot of cameras are knackered. Sometimes you hit gold, other times you lose a few quid.

What to look out for? Knackered light seals and mirror pads. Fungus in the lens. Obsolete battery types (usually something will replace), obsolete film formats, knackered light meters and selenium cells, jammed shutter mechanisms, jammed aperture blades.

I'm probably putting you off - don't! Film photography is really rewarding fun, and it gives results that you won't get with a Canikon. As an example - here is a link to an album that I made with a compact 35mm film camera that I paid 50p for at a car boot sale.
 
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It's very easy and satisfying to develop your own film (quite a bit more difficult to make prints at home, though). The chemistry isn't particularly nasty if you're using traditional black and white film (Ilford HP5 is popular with beginners). Developing and scanning negatives at home is absolutely do-able, and the results will be quite good even on relatively cheap scanners (use a flatbed scanner with a transparency window) although the resulting jpgs may require some light processing for contrast and to sort out the tones.

The only risk you take with developing B&W at home is that if you do mess it up then your film is ruined; there's no going back. However, if you don't try to take short cuts it is very easy to get it right. The hardest bit is loading it onto the spool for the developing tank in the pitch dark (you can't even use a red light at this stage); so buy a roll of film you don't intend to use and practice doing this in the light until you think you've got it; then practice doing it in the dark until it's second nature. Plastic spools (which are common) need to be absolutely bone dry before you load the film or the film WILL stick about halfway in, and you're screwed. To ensure this, I never store my spool inside the tank where condensation can be retained, and I give it a quick blast with a hairdryer before I use it.

I've yet to try developing colour film at home. It requires a different set of chemicals (which are a little nastier) and it needs precise temperatures. B&W responds differently at different temperatures too, but you have a lot more space for error. Most film will come with a temperature chart inside the box which tells you how long you need to leave it in each chemical at different temperatures.

Also...if you are going to develop at home, don't waste money on expensive "stop bath" solutions. The only point of a stop bath is to kill the reactivity of the developer; this only requires dropping the pH and a dilute (10% or thereabouts) solution of normal distilled vinegar will do the trick.
 
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Alex, you could add a couple to Paul's list; charity shops are good like the bootie for cheapo P&S film cameras that might even work (and sometimes much better ones, I got my first Pentax MX at a local charity shop). Second, there's the classifieds here; try posting a wanted ad and see what you can get. Or come to the next film meet (whenever), and someone will probably give you one!
 
As for Which Film Camera - you have 100 years of models, and during an Age when there was far, far more plurality and choice than the present day Canon V Nikon (sorry Pentax and Sony fans). You'd be better off first deciding on what TYPE of camera. For example, range finder 35mm, SLR 35mm, TLR, compact, zone focus, instant, view finder, box, stand, miniature, folding, etc.

Let's start by breaking down the film types.
  1. The most common, cheapest, and easiest to source - 35mm or 135. This is that 35mm wide film that comes in a little cassette, and has sprocket holes all along either edge. The exposures are the same size as a full frame digital sensor.
  2. 120 roll film. This has been around for over one hundred years, but lots of us enthusiasts still use it. Why? It's the b*****ks that's why. The exposure sizes vary according to camera, but on average - more than four times the size of a piddling little full frame digital sensor capture area. 6cm wide, and rolled onto a spindle with paper. Less common than 35mm, but still quite easy to source online and in larger towns.
  3. Large format. Not so much a "film", but big muthas, one exposure per "sheet". Large format photographers have big muscles and attitudes. Respect them.
  4. Instant - for Fujifilm instant cameras, still plentiful, but for Polaroids, can be expensive or in some types, unavailable.
  5. 110, 126, 127, 620, disk. Very difficult to source, or in some cases, impossible.
 
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No wind up, literally no idea about film. Knew it had to be developed somewhere along the line but not sure when. So thanks for clearing that up and saving me some film.!

Camera wise, I shoot Canon but not to bothered about porting the lenses over, would be happy with a camera and a 50mm for now i think. Not looking at spending much at the moment 50-60 for a body, bit more for a lens.

Paul, have always liked the idea behind the range finders and TLR type cameras, the 120 roll film sounds good now that you bigged it up.!

I think at the moment I just want to get into it and give it go more then anything. Is there any certain ones worth looking out for on the forum for starting out then.? May have a look through some of the local charity shops too.!
 
For a £50 body you might be able to find an Olympus OM2 SP. Has battery drain issues admittedly but LR-44's are so cheap in bulk off of ebay that I don't see it as a major problem. A 50mm F1.8 Zuiko can be picked up for under £10 on ebay if you are lucky. I paid £5 for mine last year. The pair would be a good place to start IMO.
 
ChrisR said:
Oh, the camera? Light meter and aperture priority, try a Pentax ME? Other cameras are available... the rest will tell you about various Nikons and the wonderful Olys, and Brian will tell you that the Canon Tsomethingorother is the best thing since sliced bread (which is carp, BTW)...
Click to expand...

Indeed I always recommend the T70 as it's cheap, has safety shift for beginners to get correct exposure, can take an adapter for old screw lenses, 2.5 frames\sec on continuous, no gummy door seals to worry about, just takes two AA batteries for everything ....what more can a person want in trying film, and if you like film go on from there and you could be just £15-£25 out of pocket, but if you put a Canon 50mm lens on a T70 or Nikon 50mm on a Nikon f4, you'd be hard pressed to see the difference, maybe if you blow up to 5 ft wide but if anyone wanted to do that they would go to medium format.
 
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excalibur2 said:
...if you put a Canon 50mm lens on a T70 or Nikon 50mm on a Nikon f4, you'd be hard pressed to see the difference...
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But deep down in your heart you'd know and somewhere a puppy would die :(
 
RaglanSurf said:
But deep down in your heart you'd know and somewhere a puppy would die :(
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My T70 puppies have plenty of life ;)

But I have a range of makes of 35mm cameras and they are all decent......and I must be the only one here using the T70 the most or at all ;)
 
You'll get very cheap old 35mm film cameras on ebay, often sold by people who've found them in a loft or somesuch and have no idea what they're selling. It's not so much the cameras themselves, but the lenses you can pick up with them. Some people punt the camera with the lens they've found on it as a package for stupidly cheap prices. Best I've done so far is a perfectly functioning Nikon F-801 with 50mm 1.8 AF D lens for £24. The lens itself goes for £30-50 second hand.
 
Having only just started out with film myself (after shooting years of only digital) I would suggest giving it a go - I was convinced by the suspiciously nice people in this section of the forum & am now thoroughly addicted - I develop & scan my own negs too which is a very good learning experience - there are always people on hand to point you in the right direction too if you do need any help (cheers guys & girls)

Looking forward to seeing your shots (y)
 
skysh4rk said:
Whew, I used one once. Never again, I tell you. :banghead:
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Huh...you mean it couldn't take a picture :D ...I thought the object of photography was to put an image on film. For me I have about 20 cameras and they all do the same i.e. put a good image on film. So starting to use film, I'd go for the cheapest reliable option (make) with lenses that are cheaper than other makes....... and yes I do have a MTL3 and sometimes recommend that for the very cheapest buy, h'mmm but...........................
But if any one gets a thrill of winding on film manually or likes a needle bobbing up and down in the viewfinder etc or a poser then the T70 is not for you.
Anyway I've posted umpteen shots using the T70 so if I can get good results using this camera then anyone else can.
 
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donut said:
i bet they're built like tanks
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Well the T90 in Japan was nicknamed "the tank" ...my T90 with flashgun dropped onto a wooden floor and the lug on the flash gun broke but the flashgun mount on the camera was undamaged.....anyone want to try that with an Olympus ;)
 
excalibur2 said:
Huh...you mean it couldn't take a picture :D ...I thought the object of photography was to put an image on film. For me I have about 20 cameras and they all do the same i.e. put a good image on film. So starting to use film, I'd go for the cheapest reliable option (make) with lenses that are cheaper than other makes....... and yes I do have a MTL3 and sometimes recommend that for the very cheapest buy, h'mmm but...........................
But if any one gets a thrill of winding on film manually or likes a needle bobbing up and down in the viewfinder etc or a poser then the T70 is not for you.
Anyway I've posted umpteen shots using the T70 so if I can get good results using this camera then anyone else can.
Click to expand...

My issues with the T70 weren't with the photographs it takes; I just found the layout of the camera unintuitive and I didn't like its electronics-laden design. I like my cameras to have straightforward controls that don't get in the way of my shooting. If forced to, I could use it, but given that there are so many other affordable 135 format systems available nowadays, I'd just prefer to choose something else.
 
skysh4rk said:
My issues with the T70 weren't with the photographs it takes; I just found the layout of the camera unintuitive and I didn't like its electronics-laden design. I like my cameras to have straightforward controls that don't get in the way of my shooting. If forced to, I could use it, but given that there are so many other affordable 135 format systems available nowadays, I'd just prefer to choose something else.
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Could be an idea for a new thread "What annoys you about your camera" ;)
 
Tyler138 said:
No wind up, literally no idea about film. Knew it had to be developed somewhere along the line but not sure when. So thanks for clearing that up and saving me some film.!

Camera wise, I shoot Canon but not to bothered about porting the lenses over, would be happy with a camera and a 50mm for now i think. Not looking at spending much at the moment 50-60 for a body, bit more for a lens.

Paul, have always liked the idea behind the range finders and TLR type cameras, the 120 roll film sounds good now that you bigged it up.!

I think at the moment I just want to get into it and give it go more then anything. Is there any certain ones worth looking out for on the forum for starting out then.? May have a look through some of the local charity shops too.!
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Alex, I have a bit of a bias for street photography, so I'd say...

35mm range finder - think Henri Cartier Bresson

TLR - think Vivian Maier,

a TLR usually uses medium format film (120). There are some really cheap varieties around. For example, I bought the below Soviet made Lubitel 166B (being held by my step daughter), in VGC at a car boot sale for two quid (I knocked him down from £3).

9225596692_5f76722ec8.jpg


The Russian Lomo factory made millions of these, however, they are entirely manual only, don't have a light meter, don't have the best lens, have a plastic body, and are a pain to focus. If you want something better, something like Maier had, think Rolleiflex or similar. However, I don't have any experience with them, and others here have plenty. They are rather more expensive than a Lubitel.

As far as I know, most TLRs - indeed the majority of medium format film cameras, are fully manual only, often not even having an on board light meter - but others here can advise otherwise. If you want aperture priority automatic exposure, then the easiest route might be a 35mm film range finder or SLR.
 
Now, if your after a TLR the first thing to remember is that 'it's hip to be square'. Most important that.

As Paul says above, there are many TLR's out there from the cheapest plastic Lubies to a Rolleiflex f2.8 at £700+. Somewhere in between there lies nirvana, cracking lenses taking 6x6 negatives that will blow your socks off. My first TLR was a Yashica A

Yash-A by andysnapper1, on Flickr

Which cost around £45 (bit of a bargain), I think they are a bit more now but I would think not more than £60. The lens was stunning and I was very pleased with it, a joy to use with a nice bright viewfinder. It produced some nice shots.
Bush by andysnapper1, on Flickr

I then had a Yashica D, slightly better build quality, improved shutter and speeds up to 1/500th from 1/300th. Another easy to use camera that produced some very nice shots.
I then moved on to a Yashica Mat which added a winding arm and automatic shutter cocking, very nice camera which I stupidly dropped and broke....:oops: :$

Foundry by andysnapper1, on Flickr

I also had a Yashica 124g, a great camera but for some reason we didn't bond, probably due to my lusting after Rolleicords and Rolleiflex.

You can pick up a nice little Rolleicord Va MkII for around £100/£150 and they are stunning little cameras, pin sharp, small and light, very nice indeed.

Rolleicord-Va by andysnapper1, on Flickr

I now have a Rolleiflex Automat, a bit bigger than the 'Cord but just as sharp and easy to use. Here's a shot from it on Kodak Portra 400.

Shining-Pools-at-Boot by andysnapper1, on Flickr

I also have a Mamiya C330f with 4 lenses. This is one of the very few TLR's which had interchangeable lenses. It is a brilliant camera, the lenses are all stunning and it is built to last, but, it is heavy and bulky.

Kit by andysnapper1, on Flickr

(The blanks are now filled in the above case)

Mamiya-C330f by andysnapper1, on Flickr

Sorry, I've gone on a bit there... but TLR's are my thing. Hope this has been of some help.

Andy
 
Wow Andy are you da expert on TLRs.......If I ever went back to a TLR I think I would choose the C330 versions as it's more versatile.
 
Not an expert Brian, but I do have some experience. The Mamiya C's are very versatile and I suppose compared to some of the bigger MF cameras not too bulky.

Andy
 
And an other alternative is the medium format SLR. These often take the form of high end "system" cameras, called as such, because they had a composite design. They would pull apart into a number of parts that were interchangeable, such as: body (containing the reflex), lens, extension tube,viewfinder (waist level viewer, prism, etc), focusing screen, a grip, lamp holder, and "film backs". A film back is the clip on part that contains the film loader and counter. You can insert a dark slide into it halfway through the film, and remove it. With a range of film backs, you could change type of film, even during a shoot. Filmbacks might be available in 120, 220, 135, and Polaroid type. A Polaroid film back would be used to test a shoot, producing instant photographs.

System MF SLR cameras were the workhorse of professional studio and wedding photographers during the 1970s - 90s. They can be very bulky, and also high end. The most expensive were Hasselblad, followed by Mamiya, and finally, the cheaper Bronica. They are usually manual only, with no light meter.

I use my Bronica in the street, but it is a beast:

14319258643_20a5643125_z.jpg


My initial Bronica system including WLF, 1 x film back, and kit 80mm lens cost me £180. Their prices really fluctuate, as they do with all of the system cameras. My Bronica SQ-A, like a TLR, shoots in 6 x 6 cm squares. When you are Square - there is no landscape or portrait - just the square. A few home developed photos from it:

14073730497_1242273817_z.jpg

14027941493_0b25c24d63_z.jpg
 
XA2inmypocket said:
Alex, I have a bit of a bias for street photography, so I'd say...

TLR - think Vivian Maier,

a TLR usually uses medium format film (120). There are some really cheap varieties around. For example, I bought the below Soviet made Lubitel 166B (being held by my step daughter), in VGC at a car boot sale for two quid (I knocked him down from £3).

The Russian Lomo factory made millions of these, however, they are entirely manual only, don't have a light meter, don't have the best lens, have a plastic body, and are a pain to focus. If you want something better, something like Maier had, think Rolleiflex or similar. However, I don't have any experience with them, and others here have plenty. They are rather more expensive than a Lubitel.

As far as I know, most TLRs - indeed the majority of medium format film cameras, are fully manual only, often not even having an on board light meter - but others here can advise otherwise. If you want aperture priority automatic exposure, then the easiest route might be a 35mm film range finder or SLR.
Click to expand...

If the Lubitel only costs £2, then fair enough, but otherwise it'd be the very last TLR I'd recommend to anyone (I got mine for free, which is about the highest price I'd be willing to pay). Yes, some of the 'newer' Rolleiflexes are expensive, but there are some very high performing TLRs for £100 or less. Both my Minolta Autocord and Rolleiflex Automat cost £100 each.

To be fair, the lens on the Lubitel actually isn't that bad, but it's very frustrating to use, extremely difficult to focus, and very prone to light leaks at the best of times.

XA2inmypocket said:
The most expensive were Hasselblad, followed by Mamiya, and finally, the cheaper Bronica.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Hasselblad was the most expensive of the three, but there wasn't much of a price difference between Mamiya and Bronica during their heyday. In fact, in the old catalogues that I have, the Mamiya products were cheaper, except for the RZ67, which was more a hair more expensive than the Bronica GS-1.
 
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Nothing wrong with the OM10 but for me even with smaller hands find some of the controls fiddly. But we can all offer suggestions for cameras, but what counts is the lens and the photographer and the only debating left to help a newbie is:- the controls or size of our hands around a camera or batteries or known faults or what the camera is capable of or whatever, but starting to use film with an inexpensive camera would a newbie care what decent camera they use as you can get used to anything and if a newbie enjoys film then they can go from there to what camera they want to use permanently.
 
The TLR looks cool but thinking a SLR would be good place to start for now. What is a good price for a OM10 and a 50mm.? Have looked at the Canon a1 in the past, they worth looking at, was put off a bit from people going on about the "canon cough"
 
Well instead of a gamble on the bay I have a OM10 complete with manual adapter and I am sure others have one too, but under the rules, all gear has to go on classifieds which could lead to all of a sudden many Om10's for sale :rolleyes:
The A1 is a lovely versatile camera and yes the Canon cough can be a problem but you can fix it yourself if you are not ham fisted.....well I did my AV1 and A1 and they sound sweet.
 
This is such an interesting thread especially for a v old josser who has just developed his first film in 50 yrs +. Of course there was nothing on it apart from the very slight trace of Ag here and there It may have to do with the bottle of Aculux I used. It was sealed up and the stuff was only slightly darker then gin but the 'best before' label did say 1998. I was heartened by the fact that the first few frames that have to be spoiled gave only the thinnest sheen of development. I have new gear ordered and a second roll of FP4 going through my recently purchased Canon AV-1.

I am very impressed with the wide range of advice offered and pleased to have found the site. I look forward to finding out more and more.
 
The AV1 is a nice simple camera probably equivalent to the OM10........and whether I put a 50mm on the Av1 or my Canon T90 the picture is the same ;) and also if you put a M42 adapter on it, it will meter screw lenses correctly (must have stop down switch though).
 
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