Review Help! How do I...?

[Adam Bonn]

Hi all,

I'm slowly and painfully trying to drag myself into the late 20th century & learn some PP techniques...

I'm working through various free trial software, but yet to find 'the one' (there isn't a 'one' is there, there's many and it's called workflow)

Anyway - I digress

One thing is particularly bugging me, and eluding me...

Here is a picture

DSCF3907c by adzman_808, on Flickr

of a watch!

A rather nice watch if I'm honest (far better than it's picture), a beautiful, low volume homage to the legendary 6538, lovingly recreated with 1960s methods to create a true gilt dial, out of production, out of stock and seldom off my wrist.

But again, I digress

The ****ing sheen on the crystal (glass) how do I make it go away?

The closest I've got is photoscape, with it's little colour cloner/paint brush thing... but it's very time consuming & much like when I was a 5 year old, I struggle to colour within the lines

I haven't tried LR/PS as by many accounts it's not great with X-Trans RAF (Fuji) files...

Lightzone - I can't figure it out

Capture One (which incidentally I'm really liking) - I can't figure it out

Perfect Photo Suite 8 (which at least I can basically make work) - I can't figure it out

Anyone any ideas on how to remove the shiny reflection crap going in my picture?

Thanks very much

 

[johnsy]

A polariser would help take the reflection away.

 

[Adam Bonn]

are you saying its not possible in PP?

 

[Muzzieman]

Yes.

 

[Anthony.Ralph]

Duplicating a similar area from another part of the image, rotating and adjusting the size and possibly using distortion to match the two would be a way of achieving what you are asking for. It would also be necessary to use a little touch of cloning to refine things.

note: my suggestions are pretty much from a Photoshop perspective because that it what I am familiar with.

Anthony.

 

[Engineersix]

Hi Adam - that is a nice watch! (I'm AIDM on TZ BTW)

I'm not sure if you're using a light tent mate, but if not that really helps to avoid reflections in the crystal, (ebay cheapies are perfect). Then it's all about angling the watch to minimise / avoid reflection - using a decent light source helps, again this doesn't need to be expensive. Here's a link to the set up I use, although upgraded the camera since then and rarely do watches any more! http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?259336-New-lights-amazing-difference!&highlight=lights

For PP you can't go wrong with Lightroom, it'll do eveything you need for decent watch shots, (shoot in RAW) and there's really no need for Photoshop etc unless you want to do composites etc. You'll be shooting like Tony in no time

Rob

 

[Pookeyhead]

@Adzman808

Good photography needs good lighting. Don't make the assumption that PP is what you need here. It's not. Product shots like this are difficult.. anything chrome, or glass is notoriously difficult to light. If I were lighting this is a studio, I'd be using completely indirect lighting, by shining lights off large flats and reflectors to control the size, quality and shape of reflections, and also whether are are any reflections.

As suggested above, a light tent would help.. maybe, but often also brings similar problems. A light tens is just a white box, but if you don't light the light tent properly, you'll just get hot spots and reflection issues also. The best solution would be a completely dark studio, with indirect light off flats and reflectors that you can control. A light tent just gives diffused light from all directions, so gives you very little control of what is, and is not reflected. Jewellery shots need you to be able to control reflections.

The image you posted would be difficult to rectify in PP. There's been no attempt to control reflections. I can see your camera, and a reflection of your face in the glass.


You don't need PP... you need to learn how to light.

 

[Adam Bonn]

Duplicating a similar area from another part of the image, rotating and adjusting the size and possibly using distortion to match the two would be a way of achieving what you are asking for. It would also be necessary to use a little touch of cloning to refine things.

note: my suggestions are pretty much from a Photoshop perspective because that it what I am familiar with.

Anthony.

Thanks Anthony, that make sense & the symmetry of watch faces could lend itself to a cloning tool. The general internet consensus is that Adobe products don't work well with Fuji X raw files, which is a shame

 

[Jayst84]

This stage of processing has exactly nothing to do with the raw files though, so Photoshop would be the way forward. (There are plenty of capable alternatives of course).

But as David already said. Post isn't the answer. Shooting it properly is.

 

[Adam Bonn]

Hi Adam - that is a nice watch! (I'm AIDM on TZ BTW)

I'm not sure if you're using a light tent mate, but if not that really helps to avoid reflections in the crystal, (ebay cheapies are perfect). Then it's all about angling the watch to minimise / avoid reflection - using a decent light source helps, again this doesn't need to be expensive. Here's a link to the set up I use, although upgraded the camera since then and rarely do watches any more! http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?259336-New-lights-amazing-difference!&highlight=lights

For PP you can't go wrong with Lightroom, it'll do eveything you need for decent watch shots, (shoot in RAW) and there's really no need for Photoshop etc unless you want to do composites etc. You'll be shooting like Tony in no time

Rob

Hi Rob,

Good to see you here, for you at least the Mkii needs no introduction!

I do have a light tent, but sometimes I just want to take a quick and dirty shot and I was hoping that the myriad of PP tools could offer some enlightenment [sic]

I've had some reasonable success with my light tent, but looking at your TZ thread yours seems a bit better than mine, which features one lamp mounted in the top.

The Kingston is a particularly shiny watch, so I always struggle with that one, I think it's the dial - you need some light to show off the gilt, but then pay the price with the reflections.

I'd be all over lightroom.. except that there are many (many) reports of it not doing it's usual great job with Fuji RAW files (I do actually have LR3.x, so I could raw convert in another app, then PP in LR)

Shooting like Tony (or Jocke) yeah right!! In fact Tony has pictures of the Kingston on his blog

Catch you over at TZ!
Adam

 

[sunnyside_up]

I can only reiterate what David said ...

Quicker to fix by getting it right the first time. I know that doesn't help you now... unless you're happy to settle for less than 'semi acceptable' results, in which case, get to know your clone tool.

I also think your depth of field is too shallow ... I wouldn't have shot this at 5.6, but more along the lines of f9 - f11.

 

[Adam Bonn]

@Adzman808

Good photography needs good lighting. Don't make the assumption that PP is what you need here. It's not. Product shots like this are difficult.. anything chrome, or glass is notoriously difficult to light. If I were lighting this is a studio, I'd be using completely indirect lighting, by shining lights off large flats and reflectors to control the size, quality and shape of reflections, and also whether are are any reflections.

As suggested above, a light tent would help.. maybe, but often also brings similar problems. A light tens is just a white box, but if you don't light the light tent properly, you'll just get hot spots and reflection issues also. The best solution would be a completely dark studio, with indirect light off flats and reflectors that you can control. A light tent just gives diffused light from all directions, so gives you very little control of what is, and is not reflected. Jewellery shots need you to be able to control reflections.

The image you posted would be difficult to rectify in PP. There's been no attempt to control reflections. I can see your camera, and a reflection of your face in the glass.


You don't need PP... you need to learn how to light.

David,

Thanks for your reply.

I am aware of the fundamental role of light in photography.

I also know what a light tent is, but thanks for explaining that to me.

If it transpires that I need to learn how to light then I'll request assistance outside of the PP forum. Generally speaking, universal forum etiquette suggests the right subject in the correct sub-fora

It is genuinely helpful that you've concurred with the consensus that the reflection fix for this quick snap is beyond the limits of PP tools, but other than that modicum of help which you've duplicated from the previous posters, you haven't really added any value here.

 

[Adam Bonn]

I can only reiterate what David said ...

Quicker to fix by getting it right the first time. I know that doesn't help you now... unless you're happy to settle for less than 'semi acceptable' results, in which case, get to know your clone tool.

I also think your depth of field is too shallow ... I wouldn't have shot this at 5.6, but more along the lines of f9 - f11.

Thanks Bethy

I'm interested in exploring what PP can do for my images. That's what this question is all about. I have far better (which wouldn't be difficult!!!) watch pictures taken in a light tent, with much smaller apertures and longer exposures.

I currently experimenting with the various PP tools and was looking for guidance on their limitations in terms of image fixes!

I might have a play with the clone tool, that's a good suggestion - I do find them very fiddly though!!

 

[Anthony.Ralph]

Whilst I agree with what the posters in replies passim have said about 'getting it right in-camera/the studio/etc. I had assumed, and you have confirmed, your interest in what could be done with retouching tools was the reason for your original post.

Certainly what you are requesting would be totally possible in something like Photoshop - assuming the necessary skills in using the software! Nothing second best about a result in that case.

Anthony.

 

[Adam Bonn]

Whilst I agree with what the posters in replies passim have said about 'getting it right in-camera/the studio/etc. I had assumed, and you have confirmed, your interest in what could be done with retouching tools was the reason for your original post.

Certainly what you are requesting would be totally possible in something like Photoshop - assuming the necessary skills in using the software! Nothing second best about a result in that case.

Anthony.

Your reply was spot on TBH

 

[Pookeyhead]

Certainly what you are requesting would be totally possible in something like Photoshop - assuming the necessary skills in using the software! Nothing second best about a result in that case.

Anthony.

Disagree. Would still be badly lit even if you closed out the reflection.

It's perfectly possible to edit out the reflection, yes....

...that was a quick 1 minute job.. with 10 minutes it would be an invisible repair, but it would still be badly lit.

 

[Anthony.Ralph]

Disagree. Would still be badly lit even if you closed out the reflection.

[..]

I don't disagree David, but the OP was only using the image as an example and asking about retouching software and allied techniques (was how I read it) hence my comments. Of course better lighting and and shutting down the lens to give a greater depth-of-field would improve things no end.

Good job on the image in your post by the way.

Anthony.

 

[Adam Bonn]

I don't disagree David, but the OP was only using the image as an example and asking about retouching software and allied techniques (was how I read it)

You read it 100% correctly, and completely understood.

Good job on the image in your post by the way.

Yes it is a good job, and perfectly disproves all the earlier posts about the impossibility of a PP fix, the only way is a polariser, etc

 

[Pookeyhead]

You read it 100% correctly, and completely understood.



Yes it is a good job, and perfectly disproves all the earlier posts about the impossibility of a PP fix, the only way is a polariser, etc

Just luck in this case. It so happens that it was possible to borrow a piece of the dial from elsewhere, rotate it, size it, and cover up the reflection with it. If it wasn't for that, it would be problematic to fix. If the watch had numbers around the whole dial, this would be a nightmare.

Personally... if I wanted to learn... I'd have taken this as an opportunity to re-shoot the watch and learn how to light.... but each to their own A sign of the times I suppose.

 

[Adam Bonn]

Personally... if I wanted to learn... I'd have taken this as an opportunity to re-shoot the watch and learn how to light.... but each to their own A sign of the times I suppose.

There is much to learn. I'm sure that <insert name of a great photographer> (which I'm not) is still learning things.

What I'm interested in learning here, is PP.

Hence the thread being posted in the PP section & the question very specifically relating to PP.

If I'd used my light tent or whatever, got an equally bad result, I would of requested advice on that specific subject (in the correct sub-fora)