help me choose a MF film camera

nikontos

nikontos

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Ed
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I have been shooting digital for a couple of years (400D and 40D with some very good lenses). Now I have a little photo project in mind: I would like to purchase a good MF camera with an excelent lens and use about 10 rolls of 120 film to create as good pictures as I can. Then develop and make prints in traditional way. I am not quite satisfied with my current camera and would like to see what is achievable with a B&W film in MF. My thinking is that I can always sell the MF camera if the running costs are too high or the extra quality is not that much better then current digital one. My preference in shooting are portraits in enviroment (full body or seated).
I have about £500 to spend and have selected a couple systems which are known for high optical quality: Hasselblad 500cm with 80/2.8, Rollei with 75 or 80mm (pretty much any of them, including TLR), Mamiya 6 (7 is too expensive), Fuji GW690 (any version).
I would appreciate any comments and suggestions, especially as to the best places and costs for printing, developing.
 
One more important thing, what are your impressions about the ease of focusing for these models? I have recently purchased contax 50/1.7 and 28/2.8 for my canon dslr, but focusing is not that easy. Obviously I expect it easier with manual focus cameras. Still I dont want to waste first couple films just to learn focusing :D
 
nikontos said:
....Then develop and make prints in traditional way......
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Cool.
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nikontos said:
I would appreciate any comments and suggestions, especially as to the best places and costs for printing, developing.
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Traditionally you would do it yourself, in a darkroom, with chemicals....
 
Voyager said:
Traditionally you would do it yourself, in a darkroom, with chemicals....
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I know and would love to, tried to even persuade my friend to install an enlarger in his room, but to no avail :). as it is I am living in one room with my wife and kid, so there is barely room for the camera :)
 
Focussing with a 500 or a Rollei is easy, especially if using a waist level finder, you have a 60x60mm focussing screen to look at and a pop up magnifier for really critical focussing.
Rangefinder focussing of the 6 & 7 is different, an acquired taste some say, I don't have any problems now but it took a bit of getting used to.
Its not difficult, just seem to spend a lot of time focussing and re-focussing, checking, maybe because its through the viewfinder....I dunno.
I think prices for the 6 & 7 are similar, you'll be lucky to get a 6 with a standard 75 for £500 and the 50 is 4-£500 on its own, there's not much change out of a grand for either body and a couple of lenses generally, the 6 only has 3 anyway, there's more choice with the 7, but it isn't as compact and shoots 6x7 instead of 6x6.
You ought to consider how you are going to get from neg to print if the enlarger route falls through.
 
Thanks! I have heard that Mamiya 7 rangefinder sometimes needs calibration, thus it seems easier with Hasselblad and Rollei. Can you compare it with TLR focusing-wise?
If I dont get the enlarger I hope to get some prints in labs - ought to be same in London (I hope). However I might move to a more spacious house and make a darkroom.
 
Bronica ETRSi - tough, cheap and amazing lenses. Used one for about 10 years with just the 75mm Zenzanon standard lens. Just as basic as a Hasselblad but a fraction of the cost with equivalent optics. It's a 6x4.5 120 roll film camera.

If you want to go bigger the a Bronica SQB (6x6cm) is a good option.

Bigger than that then if you want a tough-as-old-boots beast then a Mamiya RB67 is the boss. That was my standard studio camera for portraits alongside a Cambo 5x4 and had amazing optics and the 6x7cm negs scan in/print a treat - you could blow them up to the 10ft square and you'll see little grain using Velvia :)
 
I bought a 3 lens near mint Mamiya RB67 Pro-S for £320, so there are bargains to be had.

The quality of the negs is stunning and the camera feels great to use. Quite heavy though. Best bit is the revolving back, so you don't have to turn the camera on its side for portraits.
 
nikontos said:
Can you compare it with TLR focusing-wise?
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TLR's are exactly the same as the 500 and I assume you're talking about the Rollei 6000 serise, though I dunno what Rollei SLR you can buy for £500.
Its the same WLFinder and focussing screen in a TLR that you find in the 6x6 SLR's
 
EdBray said:
I bought a 3 lens near mint Mamiya RB67 Pro-S for £320, so there are bargains to be had.

The quality of the negs is stunning and the camera feels great to use. Quite heavy though. Best bit is the revolving back, so you don't have to turn the camera on its side for portraits.
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Totally forgot about the revolving back. Agree they are brutally heavy (and you need an industrial-strength tripod to hold them) but the quality is soooo good. Kind of miss shooting film on medium format cameras but certainly don't miss the hassle of trying to load the film into devving canisters :) 5x4 was the worst, trying to load film backs the right way round and getting the negs into the spirals in the devving canister
 
I'd second the Bronica recommendation, especially as I'm thinking of selling my SQ-B <cough>! :p I'd stick with square format as using a waist-level finder with 6x4.5 makes it nearly impossible to do portrait-format shots. You could get a prism finder but it will add to the cost, whereas a 6x6 camera doesn't need one.
 
snowy, good point. Looking back through my ETRSi negs, most are landscapes. Always did my head in trying to do portraits
 
specialman said:
snowy, good point. Looking back through my ETRSi negs, most are landscapes. Always did my head in trying to do portraits
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You *can* do portrait-format shots with a waist-level finder by turning the camera round and bringing it up to eye level, but the image is then sideways in the finder which makes it difficult to compose! It's just easier to stick to 6x6, and I'm a bit of a fan of square format anyway - it makes you think "out of the rectangle"... :D
 
Ilford now have an in-house process and print service for black and white films (only).

They do not traditionally print though. They have a Fuji machine modified to output onto their black and white paper so although your negatives are scanned, you get proper prints on real photographic paper.

I have not used this service myself but I have heard a lot of good reports.

http://www.ilfordlab.com/?gclid=CMejmKe8hZoCFYZM5QodF0jRGA

They can also produce real black and white photographs from converted digital files.



Steve.
 
snowy said:
You *can* do portrait-format shots with a waist-level finder by turning the camera round and bringing it up to eye level, but the image is then sideways in the finder
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And upside down.

I have done it with my ETRS before I got the prism finder but I wouldn't want to do it again.

I prefer waist level finders to prisms so the RB67 gives the best of both worlds.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith, oh yeah, the upside down thing. Totally blows your mind when you're trying to do a portrait....
 
Upside down is only really a problem when hand holding as everything moves the wrong way so instead of correcting for movement, you make it worse.

Strangely, an upside down image on the ground glass of a view camera (on a tripod) is not a problem.


Steve.
 
I had many happy years with my Fuji 645Zi

6 x 4.5 size plus zoom lens and AF.

A bit left field and if you want 6 x 6 then it's no good, but produced some cracking results for me.
 
snowy said:
I'd stick with square format as using a waist-level finder with 6x4.5 makes it nearly impossible to do portrait-format shots. You could get a prism finder but it will add to the cost, whereas a 6x6 camera doesn't need one.
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Had not thought of that, but anyway i dont want to go below 6x6. at the moment I am leaning towards Fuji fixed lens cameras. If I went for Bronica, which lens would you recommend as the best for portraits (I guess I prefer them sharp)?
 
specialman said:
If you want to go bigger the a Bronica SQB (6x6cm) is a good option.

Bigger than that then if you want a tough-as-old-boots beast then a Mamiya RB67 is the boss. That was my standard studio camera for portraits
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I dont have studio so RB67 may be a bit heavy, but I will check them both on net. I have heard people claiming that bronica lenses aren`t any inferior to zeiss. Would you agree?
 
nikontos said:
Had not thought of that, but anyway i dont want to go below 6x6. at the moment I am leaning towards Fuji fixed lens cameras. If I went for Bronica, which lens would you recommend as the best for portraits (I guess I prefer them sharp)?
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Not sure the Fuji's would be ideal for portaits as they have slight wide-angle lenses and don't focus very close. Very nice for landscapes though - I had a GW690III for a while and it was superb.

The Bronica lenses are extremely good, as are most medium format lenses as they were designed for professional use. For portaits I suppose the 110mm on the SQ cameras would be ideal, although if you want full person shots then the standard 80mm would be fine.
 
I was advised to steer clear of Fuji 690's as I wanted to do portrait and landscape. Dealers told me 690 was only a lanscape machine........
 
As already mentioned, its all about close focusing, rangefinders don't focus as close as slr's, so portraits might need to be cropped, if you have to crop you're wasting some film real estate.
Rangefinders specialise in street/scape, not portraits, they can shoot anything of course, but you have to crop in to fill the frame with focussed face. :)
Slr's are better for portraits, but awkward for street......horses for courses.
 
There must be something wrong with me, but I don't really have a huge problem handholding the RZ67. I think I'm about 5'9" and 13 stone ish.

MF wise, I have an RZ67 I like and a Yashica-Mat 124G which I like. If you're just getting started, I do recommend the Yashica-Mat. They can be had quite cheaply (£50ish sometimes) and produce excellent images.
 
Pity about Fuji, I had great hopes for it :(. I have been checking prices all this time and seems like Mamiya 6, 7 and Rollei 600x are above my budget. I have seen some 500cm kits not far from £500. However i have started to consider Bronica SQ seriously. Other contenders left are Mamiya RZ67 and Rolleiflex TLR. I have a special weakness for the later, it being of such historical value.
 
The RB 67 is a bit heavy, but that's part of the appeal of the brute - gets my vote anyway. Make sure you get a ProS version if you go that way. - it's virtually impossible to accidentally double expose.
 
If you decide on an SQ-B, give me a shout first as I have a mint in box set with 80mm lens and 6x6 back I need to shift... :) One day I'll get round to listing it somewhere.
 
snowy said:
If you decide on an SQ-B, give me a shout first as I have a mint in box set with 80mm lens and 6x6 back I need to shift... :) One day I'll get round to listing it somewhere.
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Thanks! I have to make up my mind, as it is I might just go for the best value kit I can get within next few weeks. i have heard Bronica lenses being sharp, but the body can not effectively be used with flash. is it true?
 
nikontos said:
Thanks! I have to make up my mind, as it is I might just go for the best value kit I can get within next few weeks. i have heard Bronica lenses being sharp, but the body can not effectively be used with flash. is it true?
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Nope, flash works just fine with the sq series.
Some of the earlier body's like the EC and s2, flash sync is 1/60th which is pretty slow but perfectly usable, couldn't be described as not effective.
SQ's are 1/500th I think.
 
if your lucky, you can pick up a hassy for around £100 and spend £400 on glass.

I managed to find a 500c/w + 150mm lens for £150:eek: later spent another £150 getting a 80mm lens, but WOW! that 150 zeiss sonnar?/tessar? is probably the most amazing lens I have ever used.

great portraiture. looks better than some super-hd-3D IMAX cinema screen from the future. pumped up on steroids!

:lol: perhaps some over-exageration, but boy, it produced the most amazing shots.


good luck with whatever decision you make, and whatever camera you get! MF is amazing:D
 
AleksanderLoesch said:
if your lucky, you can pick up a hassy for around £100 and spend £400 on glass.

I managed to find a 500c/w + 150mm lens for £150:eek: later spent another £150 getting a 80mm lens, but WOW! that 150 zeiss sonnar?/tessar? is probably the most amazing lens I have ever used.
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At such price I would not think twice! I have seen body plus viewfinder going for around £150. But then I would need a film back and lens to start shooting. still might try this way. only it would be good to get a body with a good focusing screen.
 
nikontos said:
At such price I would not think twice! I have seen body plus viewfinder going for around £150. But then I would need a film back and lens to start shooting. still might try this way. only it would be good to get a body with a good focusing screen.
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well, the way I did it was to spend ages ages ages! on ebay (uk, AND usa -possible some other EU countries too) looking and looking.

I won a hassy EL? (the electric motor version for studio photography) for less than £50 and that had a film back.

Then I got the hasssy 500c/m without filmback, but the most basic of the eye level viewfinder (not the flip out one that you look down through).

both had decent focusing screens too, but I wouldn't use a metered prism (if you can afford one:lol:)
 
good luck by the way:D!
 
Thank you! I am not that patient. I will search couple weeks, I think, and buy the best i can find. could also be mamiya rz67 with 110mm lens, 6x7 seems handy and bellows are a good feature. price is a bit lower as well.
Wanted to ask you about printing. 6x6 does not seem to be well supported paper and frame wise. do you crop?
 
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