Help me find my way back in!!

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Rickster

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Rick
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If you've read my intro thread you'll know I'm getting back into the hobby photography game. :)

My head is buzzing about camera's etc and I want to spend a fortune on a nice camera - just because. I know though through experience that there's more to it so I'm having to keep the credit card locked away and think a bit more about what I want exactly.

I've taken a lot of photos in my time like many of you, but very very few have made me think 'Wow' that's pretty good!! Not so much through composition etc, but they just never look really really crisp.

There are several that I've seen on here that do look like that and I'm wondering if a good place to start would be to get a good lens. A high quality lens, then at least I know that if the image isn't crisp, and sharp with good contrast.

I have a Canon D60 which if presented with a good well framed subject and a good sharp lens(if i get one) should give some good results so I am wondering if taking this approach might make me focus more on the picture rather than just being excited about having a lovely new shiny expensive camera.

If I were to spend a lot on a fancy camera then the chances are the lens would have to be a standard one and I would wonder if I would still end up getting what I think are mediocre results even for a well framed shot, in good light etc. even though it was a top notch camera.

Do you see what I mean? I'd welcome your thoughts to help me find the best way back into the hobby, bearing in mind that I'm trying to keep my mind on the end goal, achieving a few photographs that I can look at and think, yeah, that's not bad, not just having some nice equipment, going out and spending time tacking pictures, but ending up disappointed.

What do you think? I welcome your thoughts, discussion, experiences.

thanks
Rick

:)
 
Hey Rick, welcome to the forums and probably one of the most expensively unrelenting hobbies I know :)

Well I think before any of us can comment we would need to know where your interests lie, what do you plan to take photos (or for that matter videos) of? If you're not sure then look to images you really like and start there.

Oh by the way did you mean D60, as in New back in 2002 or was it a typo?
 
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Thanks for replying. Yes I mean a D60 - old now aren't they. Cost me about £1,800 new if I remember - something extortionate like that! :)

In terms of interests I am interested in all types of photos. Portrait, sport, landscape, studio etc so I'm not much help there. Not really interested in videos to be honest.

What is a good Canon lens? ie what defines the better lenses? Is it the L in the name?




JohnN said:
Hey Rick, welcome to the forums and probably one of the most expensively unrelenting hobbies I know :)

Well I think before any of us can comment we would need to know where your interests lie, what do you plan to take photos (or for that matter videos) of? If you're not sure then look to images you really like and start there.

Oh by the way did you mean D60, as in New back in 2002 or was it a typo?
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Ouch, that was expensive!

The L lenses are the better ones, but don't rule out third parties.

My personal favourite lens is the 135L f2, it makes some real magic but is pretty long.

It really will help if you know that you'd like to try first, for example the 135 isn't going to be much use for macro :)

Speaking of which if you want to see things differently and don't mind a steep learning curve the mpe 65 (and flash) show you a whole new world.

Also for me post processing plays a big part too so I'd advise trying Lightroom
 
Thinking about it - was it the D30 that I paid that for when it was new out? Either way - shows my problem, too keen to spend money! :)

I'm not too bad with post processing. I can use photoshop and have used Lightroom in the past (not much). I'll get a copy again and do some tutorials to remind me again about how Lightroom works.

That lens (mpe 65) look pretty nifty. I used to use a reversal ring to turn the lens around for macro and get some interesting shots, but nothing amazing. It is fascinating though seeing things close up.

Just been looking at the L series lenses, some of those suckers are big bucks! :)

Happy with any third party stuff that gives good results. This is where I'm playing catch up again to get to know the market as it is now instead of how it was 10 years ago. :)



JohnN said:
Ouch, that was expensive!

The L lenses are the better ones, but don't rule out third parties.

My personal favourite lens is the 135L f2, it makes some real magic but is pretty long.

It really will help if you know that you'd like to try first, for example the 135 isn't going to be much use for macro :)

Speaking of which if you want to see things differently and don't mind a steep learning curve the mpe 65 (and flash) show you a whole new world.

Also for me post processing plays a big part too so I'd advise trying Lightroom
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Okay, I guess the next questions are:

Are you loaded ;)
Do you want to stick with Canon or try other brands?
 
No not loaded, but can pull together 2-3k at a push, but I don't think I would need to if I approach this right and don't rush back in like I am tempted to.

Canon or Nikon are names I'd have confidence in and resell value so I think it needs to be one of those two.

I see you have a 5D Mk111 John. They look like very nice cameras. Makes my mouth water thinking of them! :)
 
Lol, it is but that's your budget in a body gone! I only ended up with that with a lot of little upgrades and a very understanding wife.

Given the budget, body wise I'd suggest the 60D second hand so it doesn't dent things too much.

I might have suggested the 7D but the iso noise was too much for me, also I might have suggested the 5D 2 but I heard they weren't too good for sport, mostly due to focus, that said the 5D classic is a great but old body and cheap to pick up, so perhaps that too.

Now lenses need more thinking, you'll want a couple and have to think if you'll eventually get a full frame in which case try to plan ahead and avoid efs, but that too is expensive!
 
60d 17-55 2.8, 70-200 all s/h and you should have some left for a flashgun and maybe tripod.

But to get outstanding shots your technique and knowledge will be much more important than cameras lenses or the latest software.
 
Good choice and advice Phil.

I would also throw in the as an alternative the Sigma 17-70 OS 2.8-4 - its not 2.8 all the way through like the 17-55 2.8, but is half the price and a very good lens. It is EFS equivalent like the 17-55 though, so no good for full frames.

In addition I'll add two camera bags - a small one for carrying that will take just teh stuff for the day (and is waterproof) and a larger one for storage.

All the "little" extras add up too - such as a spare batteries, decent tripod and head, SD\CF card reader (optional), hand strap, software, flash(es), studio head(s), light mods etc etc etc...

But first off get the basics - a decent body that you can grow into and a couple of lenses, once short, one longer.

Oh, I will mention that the 60D can also run Magic Lantern, not something you;d want straight away but later when you;re used to things it adds a lot of new features even for just still photography such as sound\movement triggers - all for free.
 
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One more thing - I know its hard but I'd suggest waiting until you have access to the classified (rules here) before diving in as we're talking second hands stuff to get the most out of your cash.

We have a iTrader setup here which while it doesn't really offer protection it does seriously make people think before ripping off anyone and unlike eBay buyers can get bad ratings too so is fair.
 
Damn, okay last post for now - don't forget a 50mm 1.8 II - same money as filling your car and a great portrait lens.
 
Prices below are second hand:
Canon 60d £350-400
Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 £200
Canon 70-200 f/4 non-IS £330
Canon 50mm f/1.8 £55

Prices below are new:
Red snapper tripod £50 (I think this is the price)
Yongnuo 568 flash £110

Then you'll need accessories ie memory card, bag etc - around £50

The above will give you a great set up for £1,200
 
I haven't had the tamron 17-50 personally so cannot comment from experience but the others are top shelf - another consideration for the longer lens could be the Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4.5.6 Ci VC USD (sold mine for £220), but its not the fastest to focus, now if you're thinking wildlife or just getting close theres the Sigma 150-500 OS (just got mine for £450) and it has excellent range, excellent OS (like IS) focuses almost as fast as the 100-400 - the downside is its pretty heavy and big.
 
When you do get some kit I'd also suggest starting a project such as a 52 (one a week) - the mods run a great one on here and every week theres a new theme and it makes you think a bit about what you're taking and helps you to "see" things you might not have thought of.
 
Thanks guys. Some great advice.

I know what you're saying about knowledge and technique and you're absolutely right.

60d looks very good. I might have to treat myself to full frame though, but then again, maybe not. Ha! :)

Sooo much to think about but this sort of feedback is what I was hoping for so thanks for your help.

I've been through the gradual evolution John, last time around so know where you are with that. My worry is I might not have time for that this time if my health goes down hill. But like Phil said its about knowledge and technique to get results before its about equipment. Plus the knowledge and learning again is half the fun isn't it.

I'll keep going and reading. Soon enough I'll be able to see the classifieds etc on here which would be really helpful. At the moment it's online shops and eBay as my options. Personally I prefer the community buying, from forums like this.

Thanks again

Rick
 
The 52's look like a great idea for motivation and inspiration. Been looking at some and there are some great interpretations etc.


Magic Lantern, is that like CHDK? I've been using CHDK I'm my other hobby, radio controlled aerial photography where I set a camera (Canon A640) taking pictures every 4 seconds, and stick it on a radio controlled plane or copter and get it in the air. You can get some wonderful photos from up there.

I'll have a search in a minute to see if there is anything on here where people are doing that sort if thing too. Good fun.

Thanks again

Rick
 
Yep, CHDK and ML are very similar.

Another option for buying could be facebook (here), but I'd try and meet people rather than post just to be safe. (Edit: 60D on there but its £500!!)

Also MPB are supposed to be pretty good and their 60D come in around £450, still more than here but not too bad.

I have used eBay and with good result, but I think thats more down to luck than judgement and other than new stuff I don't risk it there any more.
 
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Playing devils advocate for a minute, does your new kit really have to be a DSLR? I've just sold my high end DSLR kit (Nikon) and am in the process of moving to a smaller system (Fuji X-E1 in my case).

My reasoning was that I was finding myself leaving the big, bulky DSLR kit in the house and just taking a Fuji X100 with me on family trips/outings and really enjoying the freedom of a smaller body and a single focal length.

My advice would be to seriously consider a smaller system, it really is a liberating experience and one that has meant that I always have a camera to hand. If you're re entering photography as a hobby, why not just go for a second hand Fuji X100 (about £350) and just give it a go. On the other hand, if you want more flexibility have a look at the micro four thirds systems (Olympus OMD maybe) or something like the Fuji X-E1, a body and complete kit of lenses would fit in a small messenger bag and would deliver image quality at least as good as the APSC cameras (Canon D60, Nikon D7000 etc) and some would argue that they're up there with the full frame bodies (arguable, but they're not far off)

Aled
 
Thanks Aled.

Good advice. I have a nifty little compact type. Very good and flexible, as you say they're ideal for the ease and portability. For this aspect of the hobby, which I've enjoyed before and want to get back into, it's a DSLR I'm after though.

Thanks again

Rick
 
Cheers Mark, beet me to it :)
 
Phil V said:
60d 17-55 2.8, 70-200 all s/h and you should have some left for a flashgun and maybe tripod.

But to get outstanding shots your technique and knowledge will be much more important than cameras lenses or the latest software.
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Hang on, gotta be careful here. The D60 is quite old and as far as I know will only accept EF fit lenses, not EF-S. If I'm right Canon EF-S lenses wont fit but Sigma and Tamron APS-C lenses will so if the OP is in the market for a standard f2.8 zoom a Tamron 17-50 or Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 will fit AFAIK.
 
Unless I really misread it, I thought he was looking for a whole new setup leaving in the D60 behind.
 
JohnN said:
Unless I really misread it, I thought he was looking for a whole new setup leaving in the D60 behind.
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Maybe, EF-S is fine on a 60D but I just wanted to cover the possibility of the OP running out and buying an EF-S as in the OP he seems to be leaning towards using nice lenses on his D60.
 
Keeping the D60 for a while and getting a good lens to start off might be an option. Thought it might make me focus on the photography more than the camera if I stuck to an old one. Then when I'd reminded myself what I like and what my strengths and weaknesses were I could get a camera. I'm probably just not that patient though! :)

Lens fittings are a good point though. No point buying a nice lens for an old camera only to find it wouldn't fit a new one.
 
Oops, sorry misread it - thanks for picking up on that Alan - I've no idea about the old fitting so cannot help :(
 
The D60 preceded the ef-s mount so if sticking with that camera it'd be ef lenses all the way. :)
 
Rickster said:
Thanks Aled.

Good advice. I have a nifty little compact type. Very good and flexible, as you say they're ideal for the ease and portability. For this aspect of the hobby, which I've enjoyed before and want to get back into, it's a DSLR I'm after though.

Thanks again

Rick
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No worries, i just thought you should be aware of other options before jumping in.

Enjoy!
Aled
 
woof woof said:
Hang on, gotta be careful here. The D60 is quite old and as far as I know will only accept EF fit lenses, not EF-S. If I'm right Canon EF-S lenses wont fit but Sigma and Tamron APS-C lenses will so if the OP is in the market for a standard f2.8 zoom a Tamron 17-50 or Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 will fit AFAIK.
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Up to this point there'd been no suggestion the OP was keeping his D60.

I listed the kit I thought best fit his needs and budget.

As an aside, the EFS lenses can be modified to fit the older crop DSLRs, but that's a mess if complications we don't need to get into.

The D60 is beyond the pale by modern standards, too Dow to use, poor low light shooting etc. if the OP had a tiny budget I'd be recommending a 20d or 40d tbh.
 
The OPs got a decent budget and if I were he I'd just go straight to the 60D and forget the old kit, despite it being so expensive a while back, I suspect converting lenses would probably cost more than the £400 or so for the upgrade.
 
Thanks everyone. I mentioned the D60 and possibly getting a new lens for it in the first post as one option, but it doesn't matter. All the suggestions have been really helpful considering how vague I was and it was only one of my options. Upgrading being the other obviously.

You have between you suggested some good advice on upgrading, made sure I'd considered if DSLR is what I really meed, made good points about lens compatibility etc so I'm well happy with all the help.

I have been reading, investigating etc in the meantime as well so bringing my learning curve right back up which is fun.

Have to say, things have moved on a long way. Fantastic low light abilities now on some of these cameras.

Feeling inspired so might have to pull my finger out and make a decision soon. Time marches on.

Thanks everyone for your input. It has been very helpful, and a good indicator of the nature if this forum.

:)
 
Rickster said:
Is there a simple explanation of the difference between EF and EFS lenses?
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efs lenses are designed to work on cropped frame cameras, and won't work on full frame.

ef work on everything.

Do you actually want to spend the whole of your budget or would you welcome some cheaper suggestions? What about the 550d, same sensor at the 60d and for all intents and purposes a great camera.

There is one in the classifieds for £175 with 5 batteries, a cable release and a battery grip. That would be a very cheap way to get back into it.
 
Rickster said:
Is there a simple explanation of the difference between EF and EFS lenses?
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As above, all EF lenses fit all EF and EFS cameras, Canon build some lenses with rear elements which protrude further into the lens throat, if you fit them on a full frame camera the mirror could hit the lens. So canon modified the mount so that they couldn't be fitted on FF cameras. They would be safe to use on older APSC cameras (like the D60), but need modifying to fit (hacksaw job).

The odd thing is that lenses from 3rd party mfrs designed for canon crops, will fit any EF camera even though they're not suitable for ff cameras.
 
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