Help me spend my money on MF!

toadstool

toadstool

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Toni
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I haven't shot medium format since I was in college about 4 or 5 years ago. I remember very much enjoying the processing and the results but struggling with the 120 film itself, loading etc. 35mm was something I was far more used to. Because of that minor struggle, I shelved medium format when I left college. I've wanted to get back into it but that minor struggle, having to send (colour) film away to be processed etc kept me from diving back in.

Well, now I want to.

So I've spent a few days looking about and googling and narrowed it down to Mamiya 645 or Bronica ETRS as what fits my budget. I have experience with both of those brands although I can't remember the exact model. But I'm familiar with those brands so I'm keen to spend the money and stick with them.

I don't really want rf or tlr, I just never enjoyed using either.

I'm looking for advice on the best one for me. Handheld portraits are what I shoot predominately. If asking questions will make it easier to help out, fire away :)

Budget of around £200 for a setup plus a roll or 2 of film. May be able to stretch to £220/230 for the right one..
 
Well I'm not an expert on all types of 6X4.5, but I'm happy with my ETRs, are there better? Well for me "what I don't know, I don't miss" ;)
 
The Mamiya is winning out purely because I can get it cheaper. I can get the 645 plus a couple of rolls of film for about £25 cheaper than the bronica on its own on ebay. I'd rather buy here - have had my eye on the classies but no luck!
 
I've owned both Bronica and Mamiya 645s and I found the Bronica by far the better camera!
Try to get a system with interchangeable backs as this is a big bonus for changing a film during a shoot in the field and also useful for changing between colour and black and white films mid-shoot.
Here's a sample shot taken with my Bronica ETRSi if that helps!

View attachment 34161
 
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What makes you prefer the bronica Mart? And why ETRSi over ETRS? Is it worth the extra £40-£50?

On ebay currently, incl delivery:
Bronica ETRSi w/75mm 2.8 E11 WLF £242
Bronica ETRS w/75mm 2.8 E11 WLF £195
Mamiya 645 w/80mm 2.8 WLF & prism (meter doesn't work), strap and (very worn) case £162
 
toadstool said:
What makes you prefer the bronica Mart? And why ETRSi over ETRS? Is it worth the extra £40-£50?

On ebay currently, incl delivery:
Bronica ETRSi w/75mm 2.8 E11 WLF £242
Bronica ETRS w/75mm 2.8 E11 WLF £195
Mamiya 645 w/80mm 2.8 WLF & prism (meter doesn't work), strap and (very worn) case £162
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I'd only go for eBay if there were a substantial savings and neither of those prices are that great to me. For instance, LCE have a Bronica ETRS for £199 including a six-month warranty (http://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Bronica-ETRS-+-75mm-F2.8-+-120-Film-Back-+-WLF-Finder._118731.htmlP), which is a better bet to my mind. That was the only site I looked at too, so there could be cheaper kits at other shops.

That said, I find it hard to justify purchasing either of those 645 cameras when the Bronica SQ series goes for similar money, but to each his own.
 
I'm open to other ideas RJ - I haven't looked into the Bronica SQ series at all :)
 
toadstool said:
What makes you prefer the bronica Mart? And why ETRSi over ETRS? Is it worth the extra £40-£50?

On ebay currently, incl delivery:
Bronica ETRSi w/75mm 2.8 E11 WLF £242
Bronica ETRS w/75mm 2.8 E11 WLF £195
Mamiya 645 w/80mm 2.8 WLF & prism (meter doesn't work), strap and (very worn) case £162
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I prefer the Bronica because the lens quality is better and the camera itself handles better. I have used both the ETRS and the ETRSi cameras professionally for over 30 years and both are good quality cameras. The reason I ended up with the ETRSi is that it was the last one they made before Bronica folded and I've always owned them from new, so think yourself Lucy that you can now buy them for peanuts.
Forget the cameras with a WLF as this would be useless for handheld portraits, you need the metered prism and if you can't afford one at the moment I would wait until you can. If you purchased a Mamiya you would probably would think it was a great camera and in general they aren't bad but having used both it is just my opinion that the Bronica is better. Whichever camera you decide to buy go for as mint as possible as old battered used ones normally will need a good service which will cost you big time and will outweigh any savings you make on your purchase.

Why don't you try putting an add in the wanted section for a Bronica or Mamiya and see what comes up!
 
Thanks for that Mart, interesting. Now I've looked more into the SQ series, I'm quite liking the idea of the square format. Whichever camera I end up with is going to be great, I just don't want to make the wrong choice and wish I'd gone for the one I didn't choose. I spent quite a bit of time today going through the used camera selling websites and didn't come back with much. If what I chose in the end came with a WLF, I'd pick up a prism next pay day.
 
toadstool said:
Thanks for that Mart, interesting. Now I've looked more into the SQ series, I'm quite liking the idea of the square format. Whichever camera I end up with is going to be great, I just don't want to make the wrong choice and wish I'd gone for the one I didn't choose. I spent quite a bit of time today going through the used camera selling websites and didn't come back with much. If what I chose in the end came with a WLF, I'd pick up a prism next pay day.
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The SQ series is priced similarly, while offering more options and better handling than the ETR series. Keep in mind that professional photographers used Hasselblads and Bronicas SQs as 645 cameras for many years and just cropped afterwards, so you're not really locked into square either, although it's mostly what I shoot. The beauty of 6x6cm cameras is that you don't ever need to turn the camera for portraits and it makes it easier to use the waist level finder, which offers 3x magnification with the normal lens (compare this to .80x magnification for most eye-level finders, which are also much darker)!

You can also buy 645 backs for the SQ series, although you'd then likely need to use the metering prism and hand grip to make it easier to turn the camera for portrait orientation.

As I see it, you get two cameras for the price of one with the SQ series (6x4.5 and 6x6). In theory, you could also buy 6x7 cameras, which would allow you to shoot 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7, but there's a big jump in size for these cameras, which limits their versatility.

That all said, the ETR series still performs great, if it ticks the boxes you want. It's hard to go really wrong here.
 
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That's really interesting.. thank you! As I mentioned in my last reply, the square format is really appealing to me primarily for the reason you mentioned - no turning necessary for portraits.

There was an SQ-AM with PS 80mm 2.8 lens, 120 back and grip (no batteries) for £224.99 on ebay.
 
toadstool said:
That's really interesting.. thank you! As I mentioned in my last reply, the square format is really appealing to me primarily for the reason you mentioned - no turning necessary for portraits.

There was an SQ-AM with PS 80mm 2.8 lens, 120 back and grip (no batteries) for £224.99 on ebay.
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I'd recommend not getting an SQ-AM, unless you really want the motordrive. More to go wrong, more batteries needed, heavier.
 
I've just recently returned to medium format after a lengthy twenty two + years missing it! I nearly bought a Bronica GS-1 (6x7) as they are pretty cheap to buy, but the non-rotatable 120 film back put me off, not handy when shooting the likes of portraits or landscape photography.

I decided on a Mamiya RZ67 Pro 1 body (6x7), collected it locally and it's in 9.5 outta 10 condition wise with many extras, this local purchase was by pure luck. Just keeping your eye on the game helps and search everywhere is my advice.

Go with whatever medium format size suits YOU Toni, there are LOADS of 120 bargains out there in film land to be had as not many analogue shooters want them anymore, too much hassle for most folk to be honest!

Take your time and keep searching for what floats your 120 boat.



p.s.
Here's a pic of my recent 120 purchase, chunky ok, but I love it;

Mamiya RZ67 by Peter McCullough Photography, on Flickr
 
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Toni,
Things to think about before making your choice!

Have you thought about how you are going to develop your films? If you use a professional lab this can be expensive and if you intend to develop your own films this kit needs to be added to your budget. With 645 format you get 15 frames to a 120 roll as opposed to 12 frames on 6x6. Bronica and Mamiya 6x6 cameras are very heavy and are more suited for tripod use and not hand held (unless you are built like Fatima Whitbread). Also the RB67 & RZ67 use a bellows focusing system at the front of the camera and you need to check the condition of the bellows before you buy. I have used both 645 & 6x6 formats for many years and if I'm going out to shoot hand held pictures I would not take a 6x6. The 645 format handles more like a 35mm system.

Having said that I do like the 6x6 format and I have owned a lot of 6x6 format cameras in my time, my favorite being the Hasselblad 500C/M camera and they are fantastic (AT A COST) but as I said more suited to tripod use. Everybody has a favorite camera format and will tell you something different with every post. The best advise I can give is don't rush in until you are sure what system you want to buy. Try and find a camera shop that deals with secondhand cameras near you and go and have a quick squeeze of one or two different cameras, I think you'll be surprised by the difference in size and weight of these formats.



Here are a few pictures of my MF cameras for you to take a look at.
The Bronica ETRSi consists of ETRSi body, AEii metered prism, 75mm lens, 120 back and a speed grip E.



View attachment 34186

The Hasselblad 500C/M 6x6 (BUDGET NO OBJECT) consists of 500C/M body, A12-120 back, 80mm CF lens with sunshade and PME metered prism.

View attachment 34187
 
Martpix said:
Bronica and Mamiya 6x6 cameras are very heavy and are more suited for tripod use and not hand held (unless you are built like Fatima Whitbread)... I have used both 645 & 6x6 formats for many years and if I'm going out to shoot hand held pictures I would not take a 6x6. The 645 format handles more like a 35mm system.
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:thinking:

Mart, some head scratching comments here and the figures don't really back you up.

First off, Mamiya didn't even make a 6x6 SLR camera. Second, because the SQ doesn't require a prism or speed grip for verticals, it can often be smaller and lighter in actual usage than the ETR series, and can be easily used handheld (more easily than a 645 in my opinion, because you never need to turn it). For instance, the ETR with grip and prism weights 1.9kg and the SQ with waist level finder weighs only 1.5kg.

Even if you do decide to use the the speed grip and prism on the SQ, the difference in weight between both the ETR and SQ all loaded up is only 200 grams (1.9kg vs 2.1kg, respectively), so the size advantage really isn't there with the ETR.

I never use the eye-level prism because the waist level finder is so much brighter, lighter, and magnifies the image much more.
 
h'mm forget about quick shots without a prism and held up to your eye shots, as using with waist level camera your picture is reversed...but I suppose you can get used to it using it everyday but say once a month can be annoying.
 
skysh4rk said:
:thinking:

~~~ clip ~~~

Even if you do decide to use the the speed grip and prism on the SQ, the difference in weight between both the ETR and SQ all loaded up is only 200 grams (1.9kg vs 2.1kg, respectively), so the size advantage really isn't there with the ETR.

~~~ clip ~~~
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Apart from the fact you get an extra three shots on an ETR ;)
 
I think it's boiling down to ETRS or SQ-A. The 645 is a marginally lighter system that gives me more shots to a roll but is a bit of a nuisance with turning for portraits although fits my preferred budget. The 6x6 is marginally heavier and will give me less shots to a roll but has the nice square result which, as a result, makes portraits easier but it's more than I want to pay.
 
Get the speed grip for the ETRsi and you have no problem with vertical shots...take of the prism and speed grip and you can use it as a waist level camera.
 
Yes, a good point about not having the the prism on the SQ to save some weight! And you are right about the 6x6 Mamiya I ment to put 6x7!

I was trying to point out a few of the pros and cons of these systems and the point I was trying to make is you get 15 images in a portrait format from the 645! I'm not against other formats or makes of camera, just trying to give a bit of advise to help Toni get the right camera for her.
It all comes down to personnel preference I suppose.
 
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Martpix said:
Yes, a good point about not having the the prism on the SQ to save some weight! And you are right about the 6x6 Mamiya I ment to put 6x7!

I was trying to point out a few of the pros and cons of these systems and the point I was trying to make is you get 15 images in a portrait format from the 645! I'm not against other formats or makes of camera, just trying to give a bit of advise to help Toni get the right camera for her.
It all comes down to personnel preference I suppose.
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Yeah, agreed, it's definitely all about finding the camera that matches the needs of the individual. There's no one camera or format that is suitable for everyone. They all have pros and cons.
 
toadstool said:
I think it's boiling down to ETRS or SQ-A. The 645 is a marginally lighter system that gives me more shots to a roll but is a bit of a nuisance with turning for portraits although fits my preferred budget. The 6x6 is marginally heavier and will give me less shots to a roll but has the nice square result which, as a result, makes portraits easier but it's more than I want to pay.
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The 6x6 with the WLF is lighter though than the ETR with the prism and grip, which is an important point.

toadstool said:
...but it's more than I want to pay.
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If you're patient, they come around at good prices. A few weeks ago LCE had an SQ-A setup for £199.
 
chuckles said:
Apart from the fact you get an extra three shots on an ETR ;)
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The loss in ergonomics and the additional size and weight from needing to carry the prism and speed grip for 645 isn't worth the extra three shots for me. It may be to others. The SQ series also has 645 backs too, so you can get those three shots back at times if you really wanted.
 
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Well 300,000 ETr were sold and it wasn't the average joe public buying and they coped considering all the things said against the ETR ;) and also if you are a wedding photographer with an ETRSi, those extra 3 shots can come in handy before changing the film
 
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I'm talking with a guy selling a Bronica SQ-A with 80mm PS lens, WLF and prism. I've replied with my offer so we'll see (y)
 
I'd go for 6x6 too, I was tempted by the SQA but ended up with a Hasselblad 500CM at a good price.

Anyway if you fancy trying a 645, I'm in Edinburgh too and you can borrow my Mamiya 645 Pro if you want.
 
toadstool said:
I'm talking with a guy selling a Bronica SQ-A with 80mm PS lens, WLF and prism. I've replied with my offer so we'll see (y)
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I can get this for £230 posted. What do you think?

Edit - it has the 120 back too.
 
*jox plays spanner of irrelevance card just for ennertainment*

forget awkward boxes and buy a Mamiya 6 or 7 and have done with it...:D


lol
 
Toni, you should be focusing a little (excuse the pun) on buying 'out of date 120 film' as there's quite a lot out there in analogue film land.

Nice to stock up 120 films in yer fridge.
 
macvisual said:
Toni, you should be focusing a little (excuse the pun) on buying 'out of date 120 film' as there's quite a lot out there in analogue film land.

Nice to stock up 120 films in yer fridge.
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I personally wouldn't recommend using expired 120 film with a 'new' camera, as there are too many variables in play otherwise. If anything goes wrong, you won't know if it's anything you did, something with the camera, something with the film, etc.

Once you know everything works, then I'd start using the expired stuff.
 
I was going to recommend this
Milan-4-Seat-Dining-Set-_5301.jpg

then I realised you said MF! not MFI
 
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