Help needed with focusing problem on canon 5D markIII

shaylou

shaylou

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Shayne
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I am having a very hard time locking focus in low light with fast lenses. The reason I know it's a problem is because my friend now has my old 600D and he is shooting the exact subject shoulder to shoulder with me and he is locking focus fast and with no issues. I find it hard to believe a 3500 pro body would have this problem. Has anyone come across this issue? Is there possibly a setting that could be causing this? I do have it set on focus priority. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
 
What metering are you using? Also, what other settings? Baring in mind that spot metering uses the centre point and can cause issues if you're focusing on another area. I stumbled across this problem when I forgot I'd changed the metering when I was doing something else immediately before hand!

Also I've discovered that when taking photos of bands in rapidly changing lighting in pub venues, if you're focusing on a very dark area and have lighting pointing straight at you it also causes issues, although I'd have thought that's the same with most cameras.

Do you use a flash so you can use AF assist? I've just got the 600EX-RT so I'm keen to test this out on Friday when I'm in a VERY dark pub combined with the bands LED lighting.
 
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Bluesmachine said:
What metering are you using? Also, what other settings? Baring in mind that spot metering uses the centre point and can cause issues if you're focusing on another area. I stumbled across this problem when I forgot I'd changed the metering when I was doing something else immediately before hand!

Also I've discovered that when taking photos of bands in rapidly changing lighting in pub venues, if you're focusing on a very dark area and have lighting pointing straight at you it also causes issues, although I'd have thought that's the same with most cameras.

Do you use a flash so you can use AF assist? I've just got the 600EX-RT so I'm keen to test this out on Friday when I'm in a VERY dark pub combined with the bands LED lighting.
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Well right after I made this post I looked at my camera and realized that I had it set on center metering. However, as I was having trouble locking I went to the center point and even there it wouldn't lock. I had to move the point all around to the brightest part of the subject in order to lock. It took very long. The thing to remember is that my old 600D was locking fast without any trouble at all in the same exact situation. It became so bad that I got a flash light and pointed it the subject, locked on them and fired. I think I may call Canon if I don't find a solution here.
 
Just to clarify what I meant. If using spot metering, it meters from the centre no matter where you focus in the viewfinder. Not sure why it does this, but it can be problematic. Using centre weighted, it doesn't (I think) or at least I've not had the same problem.

What you will definitely find, as I do, is that using even centre weighted in low light situations will often result in an underexposed shot. It's better to use something other than this, in those situations. That or use a flash (if possible).

I'm by no means a pro, so if I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me, this is just from my personal experience photographing bands for the last 9 months.
 
Bluesmachine said:
Just to clarify what I meant. If using spot metering, it meters from the centre no matter where you focus in the viewfinder. Not sure why it does this, but it can be problematic. Using centre weighted, it doesn't (I think) or at least I've not had the same problem.

What you will definitely find, as I do, is that using even centre weighted in low light situations will often result in an underexposed shot. It's better to use something other than this, in those situations. That or use a flash (if possible).

I'm by no means a pro, so if I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me, this is just from my personal experience photographing bands for the last 9 months.
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Your correct. I tend to expose how I see fit and just use the camera as a baseline so that part didn't really effect my shots too much. I also used a flash the second have of the shoot so I don't think its even a considering factor. The center spot is the go to when locking is a problem in all situations from what I understand. So that is what I did, I went to the center point and still had nothing but trouble trying to lock focus. Like I said the 600D that I sold my mate had no issues locking at all. That alone told me that there was something not right. The 5D MarkIII is suppose to have Canons best focus system and it is not as good as an entry level crop dslr? :bang:I don't know what to think at this point.
 
To be honest I think you've just stumbled across the weak point of the 5Dmk3. There are a lot of people that complain about it, and there were similar issues on the mk2 if memory serves (I went from the 60D to the 5dmk3 so I haven't used that body).

With my 85L I don't see the issue much, but I have seen it twice that I can think of off the top of my head. One lens that REALLY shows up this issue is the 100L. This lens was so poor in low light for gigs, and even worse with IS switched on that I don't even use it now unless in good light (and to amuse myself taking photos of ants :D).

The 35L I've been having issues with getting things spot on, but I've just cleaned it and despite there being nothing visible to clean off it now seems accurate again. I'll test it fully on Friday.

You'll have to sell up and get a D800 :D
 
The 100L macro lens is a PIA on a 5D3. Use it in macro mode and it won't autofocus on a "normal" scene until you've moved the manual focus ring away from macro distances. Conversely it won't autofocus if you are doing macro work until you turn the manual focus ring right down to close distances. For some reason the 5D3 won't autofocus away from macro to normal and vice versa. It's not the fault of the lens because it would do so on a Mk2, so it must be the fault of the Mk3.
 
mickledore said:
The 100L macro lens is a PIA on a 5D3. Use it in macro mode and it won't autofocus on a "normal" scene until you've moved the manual focus ring away from macro distances. Conversely it won't autofocus if you are doing macro work until you turn the manual focus ring right down to close distances. For some reason the 5D3 won't autofocus away from macro to normal and vice versa. It's not the fault of the lens because it would do so on a Mk2, so it must be the fault of the Mk3.
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really? I am yet to discover that with mine - it's the most problem free combo so far.
 
I've seen it only this weekend. I hadn't done much macro photography as I've been busy with other stuff, but it does 'stick' in the circumstances mentioned above. I suppose you might not notice it if you are constantly doing one type of photography only, but when I was switching between the three settings it does stick until you either focus away from the subject and recompose or manually refocus as mention in the previous post.

I'd not given that much thought to be honest, as my old Sigma 105 did that on my 30D and 60D.
 
shaylou said:
I am having a very hard time locking focus in low light with fast lenses. The reason I know it's a problem is because my friend now has my old 600D and he is shooting the exact subject shoulder to shoulder with me and he is locking focus fast and with no issues. I find it hard to believe a 3500 pro body would have this problem. Has anyone come across this issue? Is there possibly a setting that could be causing this? I do have it set on focus priority. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
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Are you both using te same AF mode and focusing on the exact same point?
Could it be that the 600D is finding focus quicker because its locking on to a different part of the scene.
 
dave_bass5 said:
Are you both using te same AF mode and focusing on the exact same point?
Could it be that the 600D is finding focus quicker because its locking on to a different part of the scene.
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We were in a middle of a shoot so we didn't have time to do test. However we were standing shoulder to shoulder and I could hear his firing off at will wail mine was struggling to lock focus. I was pointing the center spot all over the subject trying to lock wail the 600 (not 60) was locking effortlessly. As I said I had to resort to a flash light on the subject in order to lock focus.

If this is a problem with this focusing system I'm going to be very upset after investing so much money in this body and lens to match. This is ridiculous for a major company like Canon to advertize their flagship focus system on their second to best Pro body to be out performed by an entry level crop sensor dslr. Completely unacceptable!
 
Yes, I too am not pleased about it. Although for the majority of what I do and how I do it, it is a rare problem. That being said, this Friday will be a true test of this issue as I mentioned earlier, I'm photographing a band in a pub that has virtually no lighting. It'll be very dark and I'll have the bands lighting straight at me. I hope nothing goes totally wrong though as it's for a charity calendar! I may have to use the flash if they like it or not. Charity calendar > grumpy landlord :D

I was hoping it'd be covered in a firmware update but there have been two since I bought the camera 9 months ago. Neither of which fixed the issue.
 
Bluesmachine said:
Yes, I too am not pleased about it. Although for the majority of what I do and how I do it, it is a rare problem. That being said, this Friday will be a true test of this issue as I mentioned earlier, I'm photographing a band in a pub that has virtually no lighting. It'll be very dark and I'll have the bands lighting straight at me. I hope nothing goes totally wrong though as it's for a charity calendar! I may have to use the flash if they like it or not. Charity calendar > grumpy landlord :D

I was hoping it'd be covered in a firmware update but there have been two since I bought the camera 9 months ago. Neither of which fixed the issue.
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I don't mean to be negative but that shoot you have coming up might be very disappointing. If I were you I would have my flash ready and waiting. Btw I was using a flash but I was using it off camera in a soft box.

If I have time tonight I will call canon and see what they have to say about this issue. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
I've done two gigs in low lighting before. 5000-12800ISO covered it, but meant most photos were converted to black and white.

I'm going to try using the AF assist first. At least that way I'll get a natural photo of the even. Failing that, flash may have to be used. Anyway, that's another issue which will deviate from your thread!
 
Bluesmachine said:
I've done two gigs in low lighting before. 5000-12800ISO covered it, but meant most photos were converted to black and white.

I'm going to try using the AF assist first. At least that way I'll get a natural photo of the even. Failing that, flash may have to be used. Anyway, that's another issue which will deviate from your thread!
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when you say AF assist are you referring to the assist on the flash?
 
I've not had a problem in low light with mine, I've shot gigs fine, usually at iso6400 or 12800. It helps if you pick an edge (say light to dark) to ficus on. I've even shot in almost pitch darkness at H2 to get shots of a fisherman hand feeding a wild seal.

How have you got the focussing system setup?
 
shaylou said:
when you say AF assist are you referring to the assist on the flash?
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Yes. I'm new to flashes as I only got it last week. I'm keen to test things! I have had a brief play taking photos of my black Xbox in the dark and it seems to work well.
 
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Byker28i said:
I've not had a problem in low light with mine, I've shot gigs fine, usually at iso6400 or 12800. It helps if you pick an edge (say light to dark) to ficus on. I've even shot in almost pitch darkness at H2 to get shots of a fisherman hand feeding a wild seal.
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I was going to say the same.
Im sure some people will have problems in low light, its not a perfect AF system, but i dont think its all doom and gloom.
The camera is more than capable of focusing in low light (ok, not quite as good as the 6D) if you choose an appropriate target.

Ive not seen that many complaints about it in the past 8 months.

It does sound like a faulty camera, or camera/lens combo maybe.

There were AF issues with using the AF beam from Canon flashes but the latest FW update seems to have more ro less fixed it.
 
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Here we go - 1/50s f/4.0 at 97.0mm iso H2 102000. This was 9pm after the sun set around 8pm so all twilight had gone.

The reason I asked about focus mode setup is that I was playing with some of the custom settings, set it how I thought I wanted to use it, then had a rise in out of focus shots until I changed back again. My mistake in not fully understanding the system
 
dave_bass5 said:
I was going to say the same.
Im sure some people will have problems in low light, its not a perfect AF system, but i dont think its all doom and gloom.
The camera is more than capable of focusing in low light (ok, not quite as good as the 6D) if you choose an appropriate target.

Ive not seen that many complaints about it in the past 8 months.

It does sound like a faulty camera, or camera/lens combo maybe.

There were AF issues with using the AF beam from Canon flashes but the latest FW update seems to have more ro less fixed it.
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I see it differently. Buying one of the top pro bodies it should be reasonable to expect it to out perform the entry level body you just switched from.
 
shaylou said:
I see it differently. Buying one of the top pro bodies it should be reasonable to expect it to out perform the entry level body you just switched from.
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No, we both see it the same.
As i said, you might have a faulty copy as, IME, my 5DMKIII is both faster and more accurate than my 60D, especially in low light so i cant see that its a poorly designed AF system that is only to blame.
I do hope you find the solution to your issue, i can understand your disappointment, but i wouldn't say this is the norm at all, at least not by looking at the amount of people using them.
Like you say, its one of the top pro bodies, if it were really that bad no pro would touch it.
 
shaylou said:
I see it differently. Buying one of the top pro bodies it should be reasonable to expect it to out perform the entry level body you just switched from.
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Mine does.

I shot my first to gigs without going near the AF settings. One was fairly well lit, was as low as ISO3200 there but last months I shot a show that required ISO12800 1/60th and had no problems with the autofocus. I chose appropriate places to focus, and it focussed fine.

Are you sure your friend was not using AI servo?
 
It might also help to know what lens the friend was using, and what focal length.
The crop factor might play a part in getting a focus lock as well (just a guess though).

As we can see, its not a universal issue so i'd call Canon and see what they say. I doubt there are any settings that will improve this situation, at least, none that i can think of and i'd assume the OP has as well.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Mine does.

I shot my first to gigs without going near the AF settings. One was fairly well lit, was as low as ISO3200 there but last months I shot a show that required ISO12800 1/60th and had no problems with the autofocus. I chose appropriate places to focus, and it focussed fine.

Are you sure your friend was not using AI servo?
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I want to clarify, I was shooting with a off camera flash at iso 400 (the same setting that the 600D **not 60D** was shooting with) and at that setting the 600D out performed the 5D markIII hands down....
 
shaylou said:
I want to clarify, I was shooting with a off camera flash at iso 400 (the same setting that the 600D **not 60D** was shooting with) and at that setting the 600D out performed the 5D markIII hands down....
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This will be1 of 2 things. A fault with the camera or human error. Have you performed tests with both cameras, same user identical subject? In my experience the 5D3 has been flawless.
 
ding76uk said:
This will be1 of 2 things. A fault with the camera or human error. Have you performed tests with both cameras, same user identical subject? In my experience the 5D3 has been flawless.
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Yes Mr obvious (joking) I will be testing it as soon as I can. I plan to start with a phone call to Canon. They have proven to be extremely helpful in the past.
 
shaylou said:
I want to clarify, I was shooting with a off camera flash at iso 400 (the same setting that the 600D **not 60D** was shooting with) and at that setting the 600D out performed the 5D markIII hands down....
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Yep, 600D, but as the thread is partly about how the 5D isn't up to the lesser cameras, and with my 60D being in that class, its relevant to the thread and not a misunderstanding.
Any chance we can see an image or two of the place you were shooting in, just so we can get an idea of how low the lighting was?
 
dave_bass5 said:
Yep, 600D, but as the thread is partly about how the 5D isn't up to the lesser cameras, and with my 60D being in that class, its relevant to the thread and not a misunderstanding.
Any chance we can see an image or two of the place you were shooting in, just so we can get an idea of how low the lighting was?
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I suppose I could put some up if that would help. I'm not sure how much it will tell you considering that I shot with a flash and a very slow shutter. What I mean is that I changed the lighting a lot so the pic will not reflect the actual lighting. I'll try to tonight when I get home. P.s. I'm on the other side of the lake (u.s.) so I'm at work right now.
 
shaylou said:
I want to clarify, I was shooting with a off camera flash at iso 400 (the same setting that the 600D **not 60D** was shooting with) and at that setting the 600D out performed the 5D markIII hands down....
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So, what was the autofocus mode of the 600D?
 
Bluesmachine said:
To be honest I think you've just stumbled across the weak point of the 5Dmk3. There are a lot of people that complain about it, and there were similar issues on the mk2 if memory serves
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Got any links to these people complaining? It might offer other suggestions
 
shaylou said:
Center point.
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I've also got gig pics shot at iso12800 with a 70-200 f2.8 mk1 without any issues.

You mentioned ISO400, is that because you were using auto ISO?

AF mode - were you using one shot, AI servo or AI Focus?
What's your AF area set to? I tend to use just the center 9 points and move them around if I need to recompose. I've found issues (probably with my technique) when using all AF points and AI servo
 
Byker28i said:
Got any links to these people complaining? It might offer other suggestions
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Just do a search on these forums and google. There's plenty of people mentioning it. It was one of the few concerns I had before I bought one, but it only seems to be a small percentage of the time it occurs which is why I still bought one :)
 
shaylou said:
Center point.
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Autofocus mode as in one shot / AI servo..?

It's important, check exif should you need to, because this could explain why the 600D appeared to focus better.
 
Hang on, one thought, do you have the latest firmware?

Because if you are using external flash and had IR assist enabled then having the firmware updated to the latest version is critical for AF operation.
 
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