Help with mirrorless camera

wardy07

wardy07

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I'm thinking about getting a mirror less camera and need some guidance please.
I can get a Fuji XM 1 with 4 lenses for £400 used or a Canon Eos M3 or Fuji XT10 for similar money but with only the kit lens. I have Canon EF lenses so wondered if the M3 is the best option or should I go the Fuji route?
I've read so many reviews and comments and am so confused!
I'll still have DSLR options but fancy the mirror less for walkabout and Landscape / general photography when I don't want to carry heavy kit around.
All contributions welcome.
I can stretch the budget to around £700 if that helps.
 
Depending on the lenses that could be a good price on the X-M1 - I'm guessing it's the two XC zooms, and the 27mm and 18mm primes? Any four Fuji lenses would be a bargain on their own at £100 each. Possibly too good a price?

But if going Fuji I'd look here http://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/refurbished-digital-cameras at their refurbished cameras (use code PAYPAL12 to get an extra 10% off on bodies/kits) and either the X-E2 kit or the X-T10 kit. The X-M1 lacks a viewfinder and doesn't have the improved autofocus that came with later models (the X-E2 is better, the -T10 better still), but it's a capable enough camera.
 
Richard, I would prefer a viewfinder to be honest which is why I'm not sure that the XM1 or M3 would be to my taste although I know you can buy one for the Canon at a price!
What Olympus do you use? Can you still use Canon lenses with it?
 
I use the Olympus E-M5Mark II with the Olympus 12-40 f2.8 and the 40-150 f2.8. It is a good general purpose system.
The main reason I want with that system is that I wanted some f2.8 zooms and the 40-150 f2.8 is a grat lens. (the Olympus crop factor is 2)
The Olympus body + the 40-150 f2.8 lens was roughly in the same price bracket as a Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens, down here (Australia) so it wasn't a "cheap" addition.

I think you can use Canon lenses, via an adapter with them (you may have to use manual focus). I havn't done so.
 
Thank you Richard, that's really helpful. I'll look into it further but the more I do, the more confused I get! There are so many systems from different manufacturers and most seem to get good reviews for some of there models.I've just seen what looks like a great deal on a Fuji x pro1 with 2 prime lenses - 18mm f2R& 27mm f2.8XF new for £499 on Wex website - that may be an option?
 
Thanks for your help anyway Richard. I'm sure someone here will chip in with an opinion on the Fuji deal.
 
RichardTaylor said:
I think you can use Canon lenses, via an adapter with them (you may have to use manual focus). I havn't done so.
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The problem with using any canon lenses (other than FD & LTM ones) on any other camera is you can't adjust the aperture and so have to use an adapter with its own built in iris, these are not marked in F stops as is traditional but just numbers that bear no relation to the F stop markings we are used to seeing on a lens.

I would suggest one of the Fuji's, they're without doubt the best in their class when it comes to iQ, even the older models so something like the XE1/XE2 or even X-Pro1 or XT10 would all work well for you, the XE2 and XT10 have the faster focusing and more bells and whistles but I personally prefer the MK1 X trans sensor found in the XE1/X-Pro1.
I've also owned the Olympus OMD - EM1 and fast Olympus glass, but to be honest it couldn't touch the Fuji on iQ, especially at higher ISO's, its redemption really was the image stabilisation system and very fast focusing, but in the end I couldn't live with the quality of the images so sold it and got the Fuji out of the drawer again.

Mirrorless camera's have come on a long way recently and to be honest I wouldn't be looking at any camera that wasn't a full frame camera to replace my current fuji's, I love the images I get from them, I love the handling and the way they operate and I love the back up and ongoing support from fuji via firmware updates and new lenses etc.

PS I own 2 X-Pro1's and an XT-1, but the X-Pro1's are my love child, I still get excited every time I pick one up.
The X-Pro1's where originally £1300 for the body alone, that deal is a steal considering the same deal a few months ago would have cost you £699.
 
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magicaxeman said:

The problem with using any canon lenses (other than FD & LTM ones) on any other camera is you can't adjust the aperture and so have to use an adapter with its own built in iris, these are not marked in F stops as is traditional but just numbers that bear no relation to the F stop markings we are used to seeing on a lens.

I would suggest one of the Fuji's, they're without doubt the best in their class when it comes to iQ, even the older models so something like the XE1/XE2 or even X-Pro1 or XT10 would all work well for you, the XE2 and XT10 have the faster focusing and more bells and whistles but I personally prefer the MK1 X trans sensor found in the XE1/X-Pro1.
I've also owned the Olympus OMD - EM1 and fast Olympus glass, but to be honest it couldn't touch the Fuji on iQ, especially at higher ISO's, its redemption really was the image stabilisation system and very fast focusing, but in the end I couldn't live with the quality of the images so sold it and got the Fuji out of the drawer again.

Mirrorless camera's have come on a long way recently and to be honest I wouldn't be looking at any camera that wasn't a full frame camera to replace my current fuji's, I love the images I get from them, I love the handling and the way they operate and I love the back up and ongoing support from fuji via firmware updates and new lenses etc.

PS I own 2 X-Pro1's and an XT-1, but the X-Pro1's are my love child, I still get excited every time I pick one up.
The X-Pro1's where originally £1300 for the body alone, that deal is a steal considering the same deal a few months ago would have cost you £699.
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Thank you for this very helpful answer. My thoughts when I saw the Wex package were wow! Having followed the x-pro 1 thread this week and read back through the posts, I was leaning towards this model but now you have more than endorsed what others have indicated, I believe it will be my best option. I may add the 55 - 200 zoom as well for more flexibility.
I'll sleep on it but suspect there will be some button pressing tomorrow!
 
If you do decide on the 55-200 as well (and its a great lens, sadly a little to heavy for me though) get the grip for the X-Pro1 as well, it really helps it to balance better with that lens, the only other tip is get the fastest speed card you can for it, it helps with speed up write times and of course have fun with it when you get it.
 
Why not get the X-T10 and the 4 lenses!!!

Buy the X-M1 with the 4 lenses £400

Sell or trade in the X-M1 (say £75) for an X-T10 (£450) = £375 outlay less £40 cashback = £335

Gives a total spend of £735, only £35 over budget, and you have an up to date body with the four lenses....simples.....
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Why not get the X-T10 and the 4 lenses!!!

Buy the X-M1 with the 4 lenses £400

Sell or trade in the X-M1 (say £75) for an X-T10 (£450) = £375 outlay less £40 cashback = £335

Gives a total spend of £735, only £35 over budget, and you have an up to date body with the four lenses....simples.....
Click to expand...

The KING of man maths ladies and gentlemen.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Why not get the X-T10 and the 4 lenses!!!

Buy the X-M1 with the 4 lenses £400

Sell or trade in the X-M1 (say £75) for an X-T10 (£450) = £375 outlay less £40 cashback = £335

Gives a total spend of £735, only £35 over budget, and you have an up to date body with the four lenses....simples.....
Click to expand...
I just had another look at the X-M1 listing and it appears that 2 of the lenses are M42 primes with an adaptor, the other 2 are XC 16-50 f3.5-5.6 & XC 50-230 f4.5-6.7 so maybe not so good a deal?
There are other extras such as extenders, adaptors, case & remote so I'm not too sure now if it's a good deal or not?
I like your idea of adding the X-T10 so 2 bodies but do I need 2 mirror less bodies? Is the X=T10 so much better than the X pro1?
Lots of questions but I,m just so unsure which way to go!
 
wardy07 said:
I'll still have DSLR options but fancy the mirror less for walkabout and Landscape / general photography when I don't want to carry heavy kit around.
Click to expand...

Do you have a DSLR which you are keeping??

For your general uses you wont go far wrong with the Xpro1 and if you don't need the faster AF of the newer cameras, it's a bargain to dip your toes in without spending a huge amount. The 18mm and 27mm are excellent performing lenses as are all Fuji lenses. These lenses were selling for around the £180 secondhand so the body would be a cheap option for a brand new set up. You could then upgrade the body in time and there's usually some deals to be had, with incentives to buy newer Fuji bodies.

The XP1 was the flagship of Fuji about two years ago and an expensive camera at £1300 approx release price, for just the body. I loved my Xpro1 and only moved to the XT1 (now D750) for personal medical reasons at the time. As it's now a couple years old or so, it doesn't make it a bad camera and will still outperform a lot of newer and expensive cameras.

Regarding the XM1, you can buy your own lenses and it's great fun trying out all the old lenses, but IMO I would definitely have a viewfinder for doing so. I probably owned about 60 old lenses when I was using Fuji and I enjoyed trying them all out as they all have their own characters. I tried to stay with M42 or Canon FD mount.

Best advice though, is go and try them in the hand and see which is most comfortable to use.
 
Forgot to add, I have owned both the 50-230mm and 55-200mm zoom lenses and from an IQ point of view, there wasn't much in them IMO. The XF lenses (55-200) are better built than the XC (50-230) lenses, but again IMO nothing to worry about, if you can bag the 55-200 cheap, go with that otherwise the 50-230 can be bought new for little money from auction sites etc.......
 
When I sold up all my Canon FF gear and moved to the Fuji XM1 I thought I would never get on with no viewfinder.
To the contrary though I don't actually miss not having one.
Composing shots on the screen isnt that bad and you soon get used to it.
I use mine for mainly landscapes and portraits so the supposedly inferior AF doesn't really show itself up.
 
For me using large lenses with a mirrorless system doesn't make sense as surely the whole point is to go light and compact.

I've recently spent lots of time trawling reviews etc deciding on a mirrorless for travel, the D800 is just too bulking with the needed lenses. After much deliberation the Sony A6000 looked the better option for me, it's ability to handle focus tracking (well better than other mirrorless anyway) seems useful when it's a camera to be used for general purpose photography. All the mirrorless now seem to offer good IQ, handling is quite different between models.. I really liked the Oly EM10 I was loaned for a while, might be worth getting your hands on a few to see which you prefer

Simon
 
Swanseajack said:
Do you have a DSLR which you are keeping??

For your general uses you wont go far wrong with the Xpro1 and if you don't need the faster AF of the newer cameras, it's a bargain to dip your toes in without spending a huge amount. The 18mm and 27mm are excellent performing lenses as are all Fuji lenses. These lenses were selling for around the £180 secondhand so the body would be a cheap option for a brand new set up. You could then upgrade the body in time and there's usually some deals to be had, with incentives to buy newer Fuji bodies.

The XP1 was the flagship of Fuji about two years ago and an expensive camera at £1300 approx release price, for just the body. I loved my Xpro1 and only moved to the XT1 (now D750) for personal medical reasons at the time. As it's now a couple years old or so, it doesn't make it a bad camera and will still outperform a lot of newer and expensive cameras.

Regarding the XM1, you can buy your own lenses and it's great fun trying out all the old lenses, but IMO I would definitely have a viewfinder for doing so. I probably owned about 60 old lenses when I was using Fuji and I enjoyed trying them all out as they all have their own characters. I tried to stay with M42 or Canon FD mount.

Best advice though, is go and try them in the hand and see which is most comfortable to use.
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Some really excellent advice here so thank you for that.
Yes, I do have the DSLR option and will stay that way but I just wanted to 'dip my toes' so to speak in the mirror less market for lighter and less obtrusive photography. Carrying large 'L' glass with all the trappings can be tiresome but for my wildlife, and especially bird photography, it's a necessary evil as far as I can tell. I would dearly love to get a lighter system that will give the same IQ and reach that a DSLR set up does for the wildlife side, but I don't think there is anything out there that is comparable for this genre.
A friend of mine has just thrown Panasonic GX7 into the mix so things are now getting even more complicated!
 
wardy07 said:
I just had another look at the X-M1 listing and it appears that 2 of the lenses are M42 primes with an adaptor, the other 2 are XC 16-50 f3.5-5.6 & XC 50-230 f4.5-6.7 so maybe not so good a deal?
There are other extras such as extenders, adaptors, case & remote so I'm not too sure now if it's a good deal or not?
I like your idea of adding the X-T10 so 2 bodies but do I need 2 mirror less bodies? Is the X=T10 so much better than the X pro1?
Lots of questions but I,m just so unsure which way to go!
Click to expand...

Since you don't have much info about the M42 primes then they may or may not be a good deal. The X-M1 isn't hugely popular so consequently isn't worth a great deal second hand, optically the two Fuji lenses are great, but they are from the XC range rather than the XF, and have lighter weight plastic bodies, that said they are still great lenses, though again not worth a huge deal second hand, probably around £200 for the pair in today's market. So you might be paying £100-£125 for 2 x M42 lenses, an adapter, and some accessories. (The last 2 M42 lenses I bought cost me £9 total from a Car Boot sale!)

The X Pro1 was (is) the first generation Fuji X series cameras, it has an older sensor (which many prefer the images from), but in terms of features, and faster focussing lags behind the current X-T10/X-T1. Cameras like the X-E2 fall in the middle.

I think you need to look at what's important for your type of photography. If you have plenty of time for shots, don't shoot many moving targets, the X-Pro1 might suit, but if you want something snappier then the X-T10 will be better.

Fuji don't really have a long reach wildlife lens in their range (yet), but a 100-400mm has been on the roadmap for some time, but no firm release date yet, and this is physically quite a large lens, so won't really make your wildlike options smaller!!. A TC has also been released recently but this only works with some lenses.

In all seriousness if you what to shoot wildlife with long lenses, then mirrorless probably isn't the way to go, I'd look at getting a 100D as a lightweight stablemate to your existing DSLR, but if you want a lightweight camera system, for general use, and are prepared to accept it's limitations then mirrorless and the X-T10 is a good place to start.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Since you don't have much info about the M42 primes then they may or may not be a good deal. The X-M1 isn't hugely popular so consequently isn't worth a great deal second hand, optically the two Fuji lenses are great, but they are from the XC range rather than the XF, and have lighter weight plastic bodies, that said they are still great lenses, though again not worth a huge deal second hand, probably around £200 for the pair in today's market. So you might be paying £100-£125 for 2 x M42 lenses, an adapter, and some accessories. (The last 2 M42 lenses I bought cost me £9 total from a Car Boot sale!)

The X Pro1 was (is) the first generation Fuji X series cameras, it has an older sensor (which many prefer the images from), but in terms of features, and faster focussing lags behind the current X-T10/X-T1. Cameras like the X-E2 fall in the middle.

I think you need to look at what's important for your type of photography. If you have plenty of time for shots, don't shoot many moving targets, the X-Pro1 might suit, but if you want something snappier then the X-T10 will be better.

Fuji don't really have a long reach wildlife lens in their range (yet), but a 100-400mm has been on the roadmap for some time, but no firm release date yet, and this is physically quite a large lens, so won't really make your wildlike options smaller!!. A TC has also been released recently but this only works with some lenses.

In all seriousness if you what to shoot wildlife with long lenses, then mirrorless probably isn't the way to go, I'd look at getting a 100D as a lightweight stablemate to your existing DSLR, but if you want a lightweight camera system, for general use, and are prepared to accept it's limitations then mirrorless and the X-T10 is a good place to start.
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I really appreciate all that you've said and take it all on board. In fact I've been thinking today that mirror less is probably not a good idea for me at this time.
I have a Canon 7D2 and 1D3 which I use for my photography now and have come to the conclusion that a simple 'point and shoot' camera is the way to go for other photography requirements, so...I have ordered a Sony RX100 mkii which is a bit less basic than some and gets great reviews generally. It was such a great deal with an extra years warranty from LCE and will be easy to carry in my pocket for instant shots without having to carry another systems lenses.
I would like to thank everyone who replied for their very helpful and informative comments.
 
simonkit said:
For me using large lenses with a mirrorless system doesn't make sense as surely the whole point is to go light and compact.

I've recently spent lots of time trawling reviews etc deciding on a mirrorless for travel, the D800 is just too bulking with the needed lenses. After much deliberation the Sony A6000 looked the better option for me, it's ability to handle focus tracking (well better than other mirrorless anyway) seems useful when it's a camera to be used for general purpose photography. All the mirrorless now seem to offer good IQ, handling is quite different between models.. I really liked the Oly EM10 I was loaned for a while, might be worth getting your hands on a few to see which you prefer

Simon
Click to expand...

I also used the A6000 extensively before going full frame. A really impressive package!
 
In the last four years I have had both EOS-M and X-M1 in addition to a7D, for pretty much the same reasons - walkabout / holiday without sacrificing quality and needing to lug around the big gear.

Some observations on my experience:
1. Really, really missed the viewfinder - might just be me, but really struggled with not having one - especially when doing things like trying to take photos of whales and birds on holiday.
2. Similarly, even though pictures very good using EF & EF-S lenses on the EOS, the whole camera / lens thing feels really unbalanced.

I have just recently sold the lot to go to Sony a7II - so far loving it, but probably a bit out of your stated budget - though you might get original a7 with kit lens for £700, new.
 
Well back to square one! I pulled the plug on the Sony RX100 mkii when I realised it doesn't have EVF and the cost of adding one is more than the camera! Also, I still fancy the interchangeable lens option, probably coming form DSLR background, I like flexibility.
So, after more thoughts and am back on the mirror less trail once again.
I'm now considering Olympus OM 10 mkii with 14-42 & 40- 150 lens bundle for £750.
Any thoughts on this set up please?
 
The lenses are ok - perfectly acceptable and capable but I'd say it's an expensive bundle. A quick look around shows

E-m10 is £459 from hdew or with the 14-42 EZ for £585

http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/olympus-cameras-119-c.asp

You can get the 14-42 from mpb for £64

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equi...zuiko-ed-14-42mm-f-3-5-5-6-ii-msc/sku-602418/

And the 40-150R is £139

http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Olympus/Olympus-Micro-43-System-Lenses/Olympus-M.ZUIKO-DIGITAL-ED-40-150mm-1:4.0-5.6-R-Lens

So if you went for the non EZ 14-42, it comes to £662

Or SRS have everything new at £679
 
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damianmkv said:
Ah - I see you've made your purchase already (y)
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I have but to be honest, I traded some stuff in with Wex so had to spend the part ex money there anyway but I really appreciate you're looking around for me.
 
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