Beginner Help!

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Tom
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#1
Good Morning Everyone.
May I please ask your advice/help? Last week I purchased a Canon EOS 4000D Being a raw beginner I read up on tips and hints,what I learned was everyone urged me not to use the auto setting "Go to manual" they all said.....so I took their advice and set the camera to their instructions.
Yesterday at an indoor sport event I took around 200 shots....viewed them this morning on the LCD screen to find they are there but barely visible! :-( Very disappointed and my embarrassment is bordering on physical pain. I've reset the camera to its original format...and can safely say I'll be staying here from now on! Is there any way I can adjust the camera so I can view the photos or should I just erase them and put it down to utter failure?
Thank You.
P.S....I don't know how I'm going to explain this to the people I photographed other than tell them my camera got nicked! Emigrating is an option,are there any countries that accept ageing idiots?
 
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Graham
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#2
Hi,
Welcome Tom..
For a start, tell us the camera settings and then post a photo here to show us.
Did you shoot in RAW format?
Maybe not everything is lost.
Without sounding syndical, Try walk before you can run, learn you camera, It may take a few weeks but you will get there.
Do you know anyone that has a camera that DOES shoot in Manual Mode, get them to coach you.
 
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Tom
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#3
Thank you Graham..I did indeed run before I walked! If you mean the settings I used I'm assuming they are lost as I returned it to Auto mode?
I will as you say get to know the camera,for now I'll stay in auto and delve into the finer points as I go along....I'll erase said photos and begin again.
Thanks for your reply.
 
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#4
Don't erase the photos!

Graham's question about whether you shot in RAW is crucial because it means you might be able to save the photos (IF you shot in RAW) by adjusting the exposure in an editing program. This is dependent on just how under exposed they are.

For what it's worth shooing in manual is only advisable if you know how to use the camera, which I guess you figured out by now. In fact most people will tell you that one of the semi-auto modes is better (shutter or aperture priority). For sports I'd advise shutter priority.

If you want to learn how to use the camera, look up "The Exposure Triangle" and learn it! The reason I say that rather than using Auto mode is that shooting sports indoors the light levels aren't going to be great, and auto mode may well blur the subjects by lowering the shutter speed too much.
 

arclight

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Doug
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#5
Hi Tom,
The initial advice you were given did no more than throw you into the fire. Shooting a succession of poor shots is a confidence killer.
Go auto and enjoy the results (which will be good) until you actually feel that you may be able to do better on manual. You will not get to that point until you fully understand how the combination of aperture, shutter speed and ISO come together to produce an image. (On that Cambridge website is a link to a downloadable camera simulator that superbly illustrates how these three controls interact).
Have a look here to get started.
https://www.drivenbydecor.com/beginners-guide-dslr-cameras/
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-exposure.htm

BTW, shooting RAW opens up the possibility of getting more control over the final image (and it can save some wrongly exposed pictures). However, processing RAW also has to be learned and photo editors are quite complex. Therefore, you may wish to leave that for much later. Your camera can produce lovely jpegs all by itself.
 
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#6
Don't worry, you need to learn the basics of what shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings do, then learn to choose the best combination of the three to suit the look you want to achieve in your photos. Once you're learned the basics, perhaps let the camera choose at least two of the three... by trying auto ISO, and either set the shutter speed or the aperture (TV = shutter speed, and AV = aperture on the Canon's dial) manually to suit the type of photo you are trying to take?

BUT! You'll need to understand the effect each of these settings will have on your photos before you try going 'semi-manual' like that... and understand them completely before going fully manual. You'll also need to know that there's a limit to what a camera can achieve in certain lighting conditions.

As for full manual; put it this way, I've been using SLR cameras for 40 years (learning on a fully manual film SLR - including manual focus) so I'm fully familiar with the controls and what they do, and I seldom find the need to shoot on 'fully manual'. The camera will get the exposure right more often than I will, particularly in changing light conditions, so I generally use either shutter speed or aperture priority (setting one of these manually and letting the camera choose the other).

In fact it makes me laugh when people suggest that you need to shoot in 'full manual' all the time to be a good photographer... you don't, but you do need to fully understand how shutter speed, aperture and ISO will affect your photo, and know how to choose the right combination of these. Full manual (manual shutter speed, manual aperture and fixed ISO speed) can be useful in certain situations, but I find I let my camera choose at least one of these in the majority of situations.

Hope this is useful, there are plenty of 'how to' videos on YouTube, so perhaps someone could recommend a good one to point you in the right direction. Most of all, don't give up and if you're struggling to understand something then just ask on this forum and I'm sure someone will be pleased to help you. (y)
 
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Tom
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#7
Thank you Andy and Arclight....will do as instructed...Thanks for your time and interest,much appreciated.
 
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Tom
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#8
Thank you Badger...I will indeed work on understanding all these elements...I had the camera just a few days before the event so disaster was probably on the cards! I will surely ask any further questions I have on this forum...
 
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#9
Also worth a look and it certainly helped me in my early days is to check out the meeting section on here and see if there are any in your area. I found a great bunch who were only to happy to spend their time helping me get my head around all those little buttons and settings on my new box of tricks.
 
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#10
Thank you Badger...I will indeed work on understanding all these elements...I had the camera just a few days before the event so disaster was probably on the cards! I will surely ask any further questions I have on this forum...
Another tip, when you take your first couple of photos of a scene, have a look on the screen on the back of the camera to get a rough idea of how they are coming out (you can also zoom in on the image to see if it's sharp and in focus) It's not foolproof as it's a small screen and won't show the full range of tones and shade detail, etc. But it should let you know if you've got something badly out. There's no shame in 'chimping' at the screen, some of the most experience photographers in the world do it!
 
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Dave
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#11
Hello Tom and welcome to TP. Bad luck in having a disappointment in your first foray into photography.

There are times when full manual is the way to go but in many situations the camera itself will produce good results.

Unfortunately some people appear to think that to be a 'proper' photographer you must have full manual control. Always using full manual is as likely to make someone a good photographer as going into a garage will make them into a car.

Dave
 
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Richard
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#13
Thank you Graham..I did indeed run before I walked! If you mean the settings I used I'm assuming they are lost as I returned it to Auto mode?
I will as you say get to know the camera,for now I'll stay in auto and delve into the finer points as I go along....I'll erase said photos and begin again.
Thanks for your reply.
Your settings are not lost because most of them are recorded in the photo files.
 
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Richard
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#14
Good Morning Everyone.
May I please ask your advice/help? Last week I purchased a Canon EOS 4000D Being a raw beginner I read up on tips and hints,what I learned was everyone urged me not to use the auto setting "Go to manual" they all said.....so I took their advice and set the camera to their instructions.
Yesterday at an indoor sport event I took around 200 shots....viewed them this morning on the LCD screen to find they are there but barely visible! :-( Very disappointed and my embarrassment is bordering on physical pain. I've reset the camera to its original format...and can safely say I'll be staying here from now on! Is there any way I can adjust the camera so I can view the photos or should I just erase them and put it down to utter failure?
Thank You.
P.S....I don't know how I'm going to explain this to the people I photographed other than tell them my camera got nicked! Emigrating is an option,are there any countries that accept ageing idiots?
Are you transferring the photos to a computer/tablet etc? You seem to be saying the camera is your only viewing device.
 
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#15
Are you transferring the photos to a computer/tablet etc? You seem to be saying the camera is your only viewing device.
Good point, it's worth downloading them onto a computer just in case it's a camera screen issue! Also, it's a bit of practice on how to download and view photos.
 
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Graham
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#17
Thank you I will try and download to my laptop.
Just connect the USB lead from the camera to the laptop and follow what it says.
 
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Mike
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#18
Don't fret, the 'Go-Manual' mantra catches many. And, in an age of computer-trickery and ultimate automation, having a camera with manual-twiddle-ability gets far too many exited about having something to do, that they 'feel' makes a difference.... when it probably doesn't, much.

The exposure triangle has been mentioned. For 'exposure' and its important to note that it IS just on the exposure, you have three factors; Shutter-Speed, Aperture and ISO. See Exposure Exposed in tutorials for more. Its 'important' but not 'so' critical to get the exposure right.

More important by FAR, is 'composition'.. which starts finding something that's worth taking a photo of, then getting that to best effect in the frame... and in focus... which is where the 'other', oft forgot 'manual' setting, manual focus might come in.... and be far more useful to far more I suspect than going manual on the exposure dial, where there's a nice convenient one on the dial marked 'manual'...

As Badger, do NOT be embarrassed about using 'auto' settings. I did not spend umpety thousands of quid on all singing all dancing auto-every-bloomin-thing electric picture maker, to turn OFF all that 'auto' easement, and try using the thing like my old clock-work Zenit Film camera that doesn't even have an inbuilt exposure-meter! It's just making a meal of the job, for the sake of being able to say "Well, I shoot in manual" when they are probably still leaving at least half of it up to the electrickery using auto-focus!

But, composition, and as part of that actually finding photo-worthy subjects, and being a bit clued up on the Who, what, Where, When WHY, of it all, and actually having a reason to take a photo, and knowing who is going to look at it, and what they will find interesting, is by FAR more important than anything you might do prodding buttons or twiddling knobs!

Just as illustration; if you look around a lot of photo-sites on the web, there are an awful lot of absolutely fantastic images; they are perfectly composed, they are perfectly exposed, and perfectly BORING to 99% of the folk that might look at them.... for the simple reason that the folk that might look at them have no interest or reason to look at them!

For example, I have absolutely no interest in flowers.... so show me a photo of a petal.... WHY? It could be a fantastic photo, it could be a master-piece of lighting and the camera operators dexterity.. BUT I STILL have no interest in flowers! So why am I looking? Fuzzy out of focus snap-shot of auntie Mable loosing her knickers on the dance floor when she was drunk at cousin Chrissy's wedding? Well, its out of focus, the exposure is bad, the composition, with half over flowing ashtrays and chair-legs in the way, dire... BUT.... "that's Auntie Mable! Loosing her knickers! Lol!".... it has relevance, it has meaning, and I have a reason to look, and more, be 'enriched' by the experience of looking... for all its technical faults its a GOOD photo.... which leads a long way to the suggestion "Revere the Snap-Shot!".

Before getting a fancy camera and getting rather prosaic about it all, you pick up a camera to take a picture.. you have no idea about the ins and outs and 'settings' you just do it... and you do it because you saw 'something', like Auntie Mable loosing her knickers, you thought 'some-one' might like to look at..... Holiday Snaps? Similar deal. At the time, YOU saw something you thought worth capturing. You might bore your every-one in the office showing the these pics, when they really have little or no-interest... but 'you' and probably some of your family, probably do....

And that is the starting point to taking 'better' photographs... recognising what is interesting, and to who. Making 'better' photo's of those subjects, then becomes the challenge, and a 'better' camera, may be part of the way about doing that.... and in some situations, using manual exposure settings and or manual focus MAY be a part of that.... but it starts with having something WORTH pointing the camera at, and some-one who is going to look at the photo you make, and knowing the who/why/what/where/when of it all... not which knobs of dials you twiddle, or what kind of camera you used.

Go Auto... worry about that who/why/what/where/when and give your photo's a purpose, a reason to be... then work on getting better ones.... and as said, emptying the ash-trays, moving the furniture, moving your legs to get the better angle, maybe all you need to do, not fret about settings....

If you want to fret about them... fine... go research and learn what the settings, like aperture/shutter/ISO do, what focus is all about, and where and when different settings might be more or less useful to you... and play as much as you like.... BUT..... don't loose sight of the wood for the trees, and think that you either HAVE to take photo's just cos you have a fancy camera, or that because that fancy camera has all these buttons and dials to prod and twiddle, that some-how you have to....

99% of the job, is looking THROUGH the camera, not AT the camera....
 
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#19
I think a good starting point for these types of events is manual mode, 1/500th sec to freeze motion, a wide aperture like f4 and auto ISO (careful the ISO doesn’t go too high, you should be able to set an upper limit in the camera settings). Read the Cambridge guide referenced above and tweak your settings depending on whether you want blurred backgrounds or more depth of field, motion blur etc. You could of course use sports mode as a fall back but there’s less creative input that way.
 
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Phil
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#20
I think a good starting point for these types of events is manual mode, 1/500th sec to freeze motion, a wide aperture like f4 and auto ISO (careful the ISO doesn’t go too high, you should be able to set an upper limit in the camera settings). Read the Cambridge guide referenced above and tweak your settings depending on whether you want blurred backgrounds or more depth of field, motion blur etc. You could of course use sports mode as a fall back but there’s less creative input that way.
If you’re using auto iso it’s not manual.
But that’s a good thing, the advice for newbies to shoot manual is utterly f*****g stupid. I have no idea who started it, but everyone who perpetuated it should have their cameras put where the sun doesn’t shine.

In the old days it’s all we had, and I shot thousands of crap pictures which taught me nothing. Nowadays with a modern camera people shouldn’t ever suffer that pain.
 
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Alan
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#21
I think a good starting point for these types of events is manual mode, 1/500th sec to freeze motion, a wide aperture like f4 and auto ISO (careful the ISO doesn’t go too high, you should be able to set an upper limit in the camera settings).
I'm not a great believer in this. I've read people on this forum posting things like "I'm not happy with my cameras noise performance above ISO 6400 so that's as high as I'll go and that's what I've set as my upper limit" but with settings like 1/500 and f4 indoors a relatively low (by todays standards) ISO limit could well get you a grossly under exposed picture. I just don't see how that works. I suppose another option is to stop using the camera above a certain ISO but I'd rather at least take the shot even if at a higher ISO than is ideal (or with ISO invariant cameras boost the exposure post capture) and see if the picture is a keeper or not.

To the OP.
I hope you can recover some shots that are ok after processing. Personally I use Aperture priority mostly but I do use Manual if there's a specific reason but I don't think that Manual is the thing I'd recommend for a new starter. As has been recommended, I think that you should read up on the exposure triangle and some good news is that you can practice by altering the setting and shooting and viewing the results and that should help you to understand what's going on as at least with digital you can see the results pretty much immediately which should help with the learning process.

Good luck with it. I'm sure you'll put this behind you, move on and learn quickly.
 
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#22
I'm not a great believer in this. I've read people on this forum posting things like "I'm not happy with my cameras noise performance above ISO 6400 so that's as high as I'll go and that's what I've set as my upper limit" but with settings like 1/500 and f4 indoors a relatively low (by todays standards) ISO limit could well get you a grossly under exposed picture. I just don't see how that works. I suppose another option is to stop using the camera above a certain ISO but I'd rather at least take the shot even if at a higher ISO than is ideal (or with ISO invariant cameras boost the exposure post capture) and see if the picture is a keeper or not.
If you disagree then fair enough but you really don't want to shoot aperture priority for handheld sports pictures, you're probably going to want faster shutter speeds than this will often give. Sports or shutter priority would be better suited automated modes. I used f4 as an example because being a beginner I doubt his lens will be an f2.8, more likely an f3.5-5.6.

I sometimes have to work with interns who do a bit of event photography for me, they've not often got on well with automated modes, typically they've said their pictures are blurry and it's because the shutter speeds are too slow. I've given them crude settings and they've captured some really nice images, but ultimately suggest they learn the exposure triangle. We forget how difficult that is to learn, at least if beginners have some rough settings to start from it can really help.
 
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Alan
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#23
If you disagree then fair enough but you really don't want to shoot aperture priority for handheld sports pictures, you're probably going to want faster shutter speeds than this will often give. Sports or shutter priority would be better suited automated modes. I used f4 as an example because being a beginner I doubt his lens will be an f2.8, more likely an f3.5-5.6.

I sometimes have to work with interns who do a bit of event photography for me, they've not often got on well with automated modes, typically they've said their pictures are blurry and it's because the shutter speeds are too slow. I've given them crude settings and they've captured some really nice images, but ultimately suggest they learn the exposure triangle. We forget how difficult that is to learn, at least if beginners have some rough settings to start from it can really help.
I could use aperture priority for fast moving stuff if I thought the shutter speed was fast enough but if I didn't think it was I'd make a conscious decision to do something about it like switch to manual, dial in the aperture and shutter speed I thought most appropriate and let the ISO float (or alter it manually with cameras that don't have auto ISO) keeping an eye on things as I go. That could work.

Sorry to intrude on this but I just thought your advice and settings were a bit...daft, if I'm being honest, for the reason I stated as if anyone went that way they could end up with under exposed shots.

I think understanding the exposure is crucial here and I do think that before it is dialing in settings like f4 and 1/500 may be a tad premature especially when coupled with advice to watch the ISO in case it goes too high. Too high to what? Give you noise but at least an exposure that makes the subject visible? These are rhetorical questions only :D as I don't intend to get into a discussion with you on this. Your view and mine is there and the OP can read, practice, learn and move forward.
 
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Tom
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#24
These are great reassuring and informative posts...I'm taking your advice and putting my faux pa behind me....I really appreciate you all taking the time and effort in answering..I'm really glad I signed up here and will most definitely get all the info contained within the site...I'm going 'auto now and will enjoy the experience and in due course experiment with the 'twiddle bits' I will keep you informed....thanks once again everyone!
 
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#25
When using the auto or semi auto modes, take a look at the settings the camera has chosen, either whilst shooting or when on the computer. It may well give you an idea on setting, it will also show you when the camera isn't so smart and gets it wrong.
 
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Richard
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#26
If you’re using auto iso it’s not manual.
But that’s a good thing, the advice for newbies to shoot manual is utterly f*****g stupid. I have no idea who started it, but everyone who perpetuated it should have their cameras put where the sun doesn’t shine.

In the old days it’s all we had, and I shot thousands of crap pictures which taught me nothing. Nowadays with a modern camera people shouldn’t ever suffer that pain.
A bit harsh Phil, but I agree :) and it's worth the OP noting that for the majority of (knowledgeable) enthusiasts and professionals, aperture-priority is the most used option though all modes have their advantages and uses (including P).

Correct exposure is like filling a glass with water, and there are different ways of going about that but they all end up with the same result - a full glass of water. You can turn the tap on hard (big lens aperture with low f/number) for a short time (fast shutter speed), or turn it down to a trickle (small lens aperture with high f/number) and leave the tap running for a longer time (slow shutter speed). In all cases, ISO is the size of the glass.
 
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#28
Sorry to intrude on this but I just thought your advice and settings were a bit...daft, if I'm being honest, for the reason I stated as if anyone went that way they could end up with under exposed shots.

I think understanding the exposure is crucial here and I do think that before it is dialing in settings like f4 and 1/500 may be a tad premature especially when coupled with advice to watch the ISO in case it goes too high. Too high to what? Give you noise but at least an exposure that makes the subject visible? These are rhetorical questions only :D as I don't intend to get into a discussion with you on this. Your view and mine is there and the OP can read, practice, learn and move forward.
Lovely passive aggressive post here. AP is great if you're shooting landscapes on a tripod, but not really for handheld shots of fast moving action. The Cambridge in Colour tutorial on camera exposure is a good read, it even includes typical shutter speeds you might like to use, I quote "1/250 - 1/500 second - To freeze everyday sports/action subject movement. Hand-held photos with substantial zoom (telephoto lens)".

Now I acknowledge the settings I mentioned may need to be tweaked depending on lighting situations, and I actually said a 'wide aperture like f4', this shouldn't be set in stone. The OP would want to consider how well their camera handles high ISO settings. The key really is to consider what's needed before pressing the shutter - if the action needs freezing work the other settings around that. As professionals we're all trying to help but forums are a bear pit at times. I think we all agree the best way forward for the OP is to learn the exposure triangle in time.
 
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#29
Has no-one ever heard of shutter priority and auto-iso? What about sports mode (which the OP's camera has) to favour shutter speed over aperture & low-iso?

C'mon guys, lets try to help the OP, rather than turn the thread into another bicker-fest.

Tom - you want to put the camera into P for 'professional' mode at first. ;)
 

arclight

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Doug
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#30
Tom,
When you shoot some pics you may not remember/never knew what camera settings were used.
Once you have downloaded pics onto your PC you can find out a lot about the camera settings for every shot taken:-
Right click on the pic then click on Properties then Detail tab. You'll find a lot of interesting info that you never knew existed.
The above info is for W7. W10 will probably be the same or similar. If not, someone in here will be quick to let you know.
 
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#31
Has no-one ever heard of shutter priority and auto-iso? What about sports mode (which the OP's camera has) to favour shutter speed over aperture & low-iso?

C'mon guys, lets try to help the OP, rather than turn the thread into another bicker-fest.

Tom - you want to put the camera into P for 'professional' mode at first. ;)
I think I had the above covered in post #6, and I did stress that the OP needed to learn what effect(s) shutter speed, aperture and ISO had, so he could choose the best combination for the photos he wanted to take.

I think telling the OP what settings to use for a specific shot would be counter productive; I believe it would be much better for him to learn the basic principles of photography, not take a crash course on how to become a 'one trick pony'. (y)
 
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#32
I think telling the OP what settings to use for a specific shot would be counter productive; I believe it would be much better for him to learn the basic principles of photography, not take a crash course on how to become a 'one trick pony'. (y)
Lol!
Many decades ago, after university and a few years of bad-beer and even badder bands in the SU bar, learning all the stuff I was told would pay the bills... I signed up for an evening-class in this faux-tog-raffy lark.... to learn something that wouldn't! Entering the classroom, I met an eclectic ensemble of folk, of whom about two-thirds were women.... which is an interesting phenomena.... and a bit of ''real men', don't ask directions' 'lore', worth mentioning.....

The ladies in the room, were, by and large, middle aged women, 'asking directions', whilst hubby insisted that 'he' didn't 'need' go to school to learn about photography... and significantly they had signed up for the course, because after a decade or more carrying a little 110 Instamatic around in their hand-bag and getting lots of photo's, pretty much by serendipity of the kids darting about, and a lot of blank shots where the flash hadn't gone off.... they had gone to a camera shop to get a 'better' camera, they 'believed' was key to taking 'better' pictures.... 'cos hubby had always told them that it was 'far' too 'complicated'....

Which begs another aside, actually.... One lady actually remarked on Her hubby, bamboozling her with all the technical terms, like Hyper-Focus, and Exposure-Value and all the 'maths' of using a 'slide-rule' exposure calculator, and added, "I can follow the instructions in a cook-book to make a near perfect souffle.... but apparently I'm too 'stooopid' to take a photo!"... which is a very good analogy actually.... what's more important.... what 'settings' you use on the cooker..... or the proof of the pudding, in the eating?

Anyway... among this ensemble was a middle aged chap, clutching a Bronica ETRS, 'professional' medium-format camera, being rather aloof... and we all 'assumed' must be the teacher! In fact, he was 'A Pro'... but..... He was 'A Pro', because for thirty years he had made a living from taking photo's, and, that, earning a wage from the deal, was, as he said, pretty much ALL that made him 'A Pro'! Didn't mean he was a good photographer! A-N-D... so after 30 years, and taking over the 'studio' he'd started at, I think just after National-Service, as a lab-tech come assistant, he'd signed up for night-school, with the rest of us, to 'learn' photography, but significantly ALL the photography he hadn't as a 'pro' for over quarter of a century!

For most of that career, he joked, that he'd take all these photo's, mostly of the happy-couple, shortly before they became very unhappy, or the proud student getting their diploma, or whatever, then get back off holiday, and his wife's happy-snaps were 'so' much better than his own efforts.. mostly, he quipped, probably because she just pulled the 110 Instamatic out of her hand-bag and got on with it, whilst he faffed around with a light-meter and slide-rule exposure calculator! (And there's more than a little 'lesson' in that!)

But as far as 'one-trick-pony's go, that was absolutely his point.

For thirty years, he had turned up, mostly to snap weddings, and as I suspect Phil will undoubtedly concur, 99% of the job had little or nothing to do with cameras, and was an exercise in advanced cat-herding, trying to get the appropriate people to stand in-front of the camera, at the same time, and not make silly faces and the like, long enough to press the shutter. The actual camera 'settings' were pretty much the same every-time, he had, I think it was five basic 'set-ups' and after taking a reflected light meter reading of his 'scene' making an adjustment maybe a stop or so either way, and then back-to getting the cats to stand still and say 'cheese'....

And in his words, after 30 years in the game, making a living wage from the gig.... "I don't really know much about photography, you know"

Which is both an argument in support as well as against this idea of a one-trick, one set-up suggestion..... As said, he had perhaps five basic set-ups; which were mostly permutations on the 'scene', one in-door, one out-door, one full-length, one head-and-shoulders, one that got the church in the back-ground.... and the basic 'exposure settings' and the 'staging' of the shot, were pretty much those he was told to use by his boss, quarter century earlier.... and they WORKED!... at least as long as he was taking a photo of a soon to be unhappy couple out-side the registry office, in Brum...... those same 'settings' sort of worked, with a little adjustment for his wife and kids outside the Alhambra palace in on holiday in Southern-Spain.... but... when it came to his kids chucking a ball about the beach, or capturing the vista from a vineyard in the mountains? He was pretty much working in the dark... little side joke.... it was just nice for that dark to be in warm sunlight for a change.... (Other big bit of his 'business' was making up the 7x5" 'prints', in the dark-room for the customers to put on the mantle-piece ready to throw at each other in a few years time! lol... & y-e-s if it hasn't already been presumed, I am divorced!)

There's a few 'lessons' in there, and number one, has to be that this "reverence of the professional" can be direly misplaced. They don't always have all the answers; what makes them a 'pro' is merely that they make a wage from it.

Next up; As far as 'settings' are concerned, they can be pretty irrelevant, and it matters little who or what chooses them for you.... some random chap on the internet suggesting them, might be as good as some random chap in Homatsu, programming the camera's electrikery tro do like-wise, and is little or no different to this chaps Boss telling him what aperture and shutter speed and focus distance to set, half a century ago.

As a starting place? what the heck... they are as good as any. And they will probably 'work' and work OK nine times out of ten.... its where they don't that it starts to bite..... and working out why they didn't work, and more, where anything else might work 'better'. Like the chap trying to take an action photo of his kids playing volley-ball on the beach, or capture a sunset over the mountains, where the 'settings' more likely to 'work' aren't those you would pick to take a dreamy romantic picture of a couple in their tux and chince outside the church on a gloomy British afternoon!

If you take the 'advice' of a camera's built in electrickery..... shoot 'auto', well, it has far more than one starting suggestion on settings, it is likely programmed with a whole table of millions of the things, derived from asking the question of countless experts, and the electrickery can finesse the 'suggestion' from the table, based not just on how high or low the light meter reading, but what the focus distance is on the lens, and what 'clues' you have given the electrickery picking an exposure 'mode' like sports or 'landscape' or 'portrait' to help the electrickery decide whether a fast shutter-speed or a small aperture is more of less, likely important to you.....

Its like posting a picture of the 'scene' on the net and asking every-one and any-one what 'settings' they think would be more or less suitable... and picking from them, not just taking one suggested 'setting' combination as a one-size-fits-all panacea for every situation.

And that brings us back.... end of the day, the settings are only concerned with 'exposure', and THAT is very much a question of taste, not of scientific accuracy, 'any-way'.... So who would like to try herding some cats?

Whats 'in' the camera is still but tiny tiny fraction of the job, what's in-front of the camera, still by far and away the larger bit of it! Look THROUGH, not AT the camera!
 
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Steven
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#33
Lovely passive aggressive post here. AP is great if you're shooting landscapes on a tripod, but not really for handheld shots of fast moving action.
I use AP for everything (except studio). And I can get the exposure settings (SS) I need regardless of which exposure mode I use. FWIW, I shoot mostly action type stuff (wildlife).
 
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#34
Mike I don’t normally read your posts (far too long) but on this occasion, curiosity got the betterof me, and I thought I’d see if you actually had a point.

Ten I found this...
For thirty years, he had turned up, mostly to snap weddings, and as I suspect Phil will undoubtedly concur, 99% of the job had little or nothing to do with cameras, and was an exercise in advanced cat-herding, trying to get the appropriate people to stand in-front of the camera, at the same time, and not make silly faces and the like, long enough to press the shutter.
Now, your old guy in the 80’s / 90’s might have had a point. But it’s 2019 now, and for the average wedding photographer only about 10% of their delivered work and 5% of their time is spent shooting groups of people.

The rest of the time, that guy from your story would be completely knackered, the average wedding photographer will be shooting candids in low light, capturing emotions, shooting ‘product’ shots, using off camera flash, shooting ‘night club’ and a myriad of other challenges.

If you typed 10% as much and read it through, you’d be the useful resource that you seem to think you are.
 
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#35
If you’re using auto iso it’s not manual.
But that’s a good thing, the advice for newbies to shoot manual is utterly f*****g stupid. I have no idea who started it, but everyone who perpetuated it should have their cameras put where the sun doesn’t shine.

In the old days it’s all we had, and I shot thousands of crap pictures which taught me nothing. Nowadays with a modern camera people shouldn’t ever suffer that pain.
I'm still of the opinion that one needs to get to the point where they can use full manual fluently (i.e. understand it); but it is by no means a required starting/end point.
 
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Alan
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#36
I haven't been here for a while so this may not matter, but...

Lovely passive aggressive post here. AP is great if you're shooting landscapes on a tripod, but not really for handheld shots of fast moving action. The Cambridge in Colour tutorial on camera exposure is a good read, it even includes typical shutter speeds you might like to use, I quote "1/250 - 1/500 second - To freeze everyday sports/action subject movement. Hand-held photos with substantial zoom (telephoto lens)".

Now I acknowledge the settings I mentioned may need to be tweaked depending on lighting situations, and I actually said a 'wide aperture like f4', this shouldn't be set in stone. The OP would want to consider how well their camera handles high ISO settings. The key really is to consider what's needed before pressing the shutter - if the action needs freezing work the other settings around that. As professionals we're all trying to help but forums are a bear pit at times. I think we all agree the best way forward for the OP is to learn the exposure triangle in time.
Dunno where you get the "passive Aggressive" from as that's just not me but I do try to tone things down a bit when I'm "talking" to people who don't know me and also because we should all try to be nice to our fellow man, in public etc... but all that was rather difficult reading your suggestions.

Your setting IMO could well result in under exposed shots. I couldn't give a flying what Cambridge in Colour says as 1/500 indoors at "like" f4 and not letting the ISO get too high may be utterly useless and result in under exposure.

As for AP and tripod use. Here in a rather less bright corner of planet earth known as northern England AP can still give high shutter speeds and when it can't I switch to manual and dial in the aperture and shutter settings I want and I let the ISO float. These aren't input and forget settings as I keep an eye on things and adjust for best effect as the lighting, subject and action change.

This all seems more sensible to me than recommending that someone who has already ended up with under exposed shots should dial in "like" f4 and 1/500 for indoor shooting and not let the ISO go too high. Being able to capture a shot that can be seen seems pretty crucial to me and if shutter speed is the most important factor and that means using a high ISO and/or a wider aperture I think that's a better option than ending up with a shot that can't be seen.
 
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#37
I think one of the really nice things about modern cameras is you can check your images at once. You can then make any adjustments if required. You don’t have to shoot fully manual you can chose av or tv modes. The most important thing is check your images. You will learn by your success and also your failures. It a learning curve.
 
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