Beginner help?

[Adamcski]

Hi folks, I hope all is well.

I have been learning and playing around in manual mode and adjusting the settings to ensure the image taken is black and blocks out the ambient light. Then I can use lights / flash to suit.

Now, I have done some flower images with the macro lens and added constant light - no issues. I then put the flash trigger on, switched it to manual, held the flash in my hand so I could change the direction and such....but now the live preview mode isn't black...it's just like the normal screen. When I dethatch the flash trigger it goes black again (which it should).

Why is this happening, any ideas? Obviously new to me and I have no idea why attaching the flash alters the image I see on the back of the screen when it is in live preview. Is it previewing what the image will look like by reading the flash output power or something?

I am confused.

 

[Faldrax]

You've not said which make / model of camera you have, but some (including yours, it seems) will by default automatically disable the live preview when a flash or trigger is attached - you will be able to change the behaviour with a setting somewhere in the menus!
The reason for this is that often the camera has no way of determining what level of light will be provided by external flash / strobes (making a realistic preview calculation impossible), and will often have manual settings designed to eliminate any ambient (as you do), so a preview based on settings will simply be black - hence the screen displays an artificially boosted image to allow composition / framing.

 

[Adamcski]

Ah, I shoot Lumix cameras.

So, when using the flash it's better to compose the shot, alter the settings so you know it's blocked out the light and then switch the flash trigger on. That way, you know the settings are correct and it's just a case of the flash firing and you moving the flash around and checking the images once they have been taken.

(Unless you know where the setting to turn it off is).

 

[Faldrax]

Ah, I shoot Lumix cameras.

So, when using the flash it's better to compose the shot, alter the settings so you know it's blocked out the light and then switch the flash trigger on. That way, you know the settings are correct and it's just a case of the flash firing and you moving the flash around and checking the images once they have been taken.

(Unless you know where the setting to turn it off is).

Yes - does your camera allow you to assign custom button settings? (My Sony A7iv has several buttons specifically for custom settings)
If so, you may be able to assign one to toggle between the two display modes, which may be better than switching the trigger on and off (which can in turn lead to the flash deciding nothing is linked, and going into sleep mode...)

 

[Adamcski]

I know this sounds bad, but yes I know it does but I have no idea what or how to do it lol

 

[Harlequin565]

Is it previewing what the image will look like by reading the flash output power or something?

Possibly. Have a look in the manual for "Exposure Preview With Flash" or something. Might be quicker to Google it. I have it set on my quick menu for my camera so that I can easily switch it when I need to.

 

[Phil V]

Why is this happening, any ideas? Obviously new to me and I have no idea why attaching the flash alters the image I see on the back of the screen when it is in live preview. Is it previewing what the image will look like by reading the flash output power or something?

It’s assuming that because you’ve fitted the flash, you’re in the dark and will be using flash. So it’s switching off exposure simulation so you can see to focus.

This is designed to be helpful (it is helpful). It’s not showing you what your image will look like, it’s just allowing you to compose and focus.

 

[Phil V]

Is it previewing what the image will look like by reading the flash output power or something?

Unfortunately your camera has no idea whether you’re just using a small single speedlight in the hotshoe or a bank of professional softboxes.

And that’s why we always bang on about using camera auto settings for balancing flash, the camera can’t know what you want to achieve. So it can’t possibly help you achieve what you want.

 

[Adamcski]

Thanks folks, it's been driving me insane but watched a few videos and that seems to be the way it works.

Now I'm stuck playing around with things and I've come across another interesting issue.

My S5 has a maximum sync speed of 1/250 if using a flash. Why if I set iso to 100, F22 does it stop me going passed 1/200 when I'm in manual mode, with flash on?

 

[Adamcski]

Okay, I think Iay have worked it out.

I have the old TT685o and when this is connected to my Xpro O the flash has OLPS showing. I've googled this and max shutter speed and it would appear it's 1/200....

Olympus/godox sync speed

Hey guys quick question. I have a omd em10ii and godox tt350o and the fastest sync speed i can use without HSS enabled is 1/180 EVEN though the settings in my camera are set to sync up to 1/250. Does anyone know if the tt350o highest sync speed is 1/180? Its not much of an issue becsuse i can...

www.mu-43.com

Now if I press the SYNC button on the trigger I can move the shutter speed to 1/800...

So it looks like itay be to do with the flash I have / trigger I am using

 

[Phil V]

Thanks folks, it's been driving me insane but watched a few videos and that seems to be the way it works.

Now I'm stuck playing around with things and I've come across another interesting issue.

My S5 has a maximum sync speed of 1/250 if using a flash. Why if I set iso to 100, F22 does it stop me going passed 1/200 when I'm in manual mode, with flash on?

Sync speed.
Your flash fires when the first shutter curtain has cleared the sensor, and before the 2nd curtain starts moving to cover the sensor.
At speeds faster than sync the 2nd curtain starts moving before the 1st curtain has cleared, therefore a flash firing couldn’t illuminate the entire sensor.

 

[Phil V]

Okay, I think Iay have worked it out.

I have the old TT685o and when this is connected to my Xpro O the flash has OLPS showing. I've googled this and max shutter speed and it would appear it's 1/200....

Olympus/godox sync speed

Hey guys quick question. I have a omd em10ii and godox tt350o and the fastest sync speed i can use without HSS enabled is 1/180 EVEN though the settings in my camera are set to sync up to 1/250. Does anyone know if the tt350o highest sync speed is 1/180? Its not much of an issue becsuse i can...

www.mu-43.com

Now if I press the SYNC button on the trigger I can move the shutter speed to 1/800...

So it looks like itay be to do with the flash I have / trigger I am using

That means the camera is using high speed sync.

But you don’t need the high shutter speed for what you’re shooting.

At your 1/200 shutter speed, in the pitch dark, your flash fires for maybe 1/10,000 sec, and that’s effectively your ‘shutter speed’

 

[Adamcski]

So, if I'm correct then @Phil V

S5 is capable of 1/250 sync speed. My Godox Xpro o when paired to the TT685o uses the Oly /Panasonic set up (as noted on the flash (OPLS) which is limited to 1/200 based on that post above. I've read about high speed sync, hence I knew pressing the SYNC button activated this on the trigger and this then allows me to move the shutter speed all the way to 1/8000 and the flash fires when I pull the trigger.

Don't teach you this on courses lol


I watched this video where the gent is using an S5 and flash...

View: https://youtu.be/HlRkmoj6aqg?si=oIQZzlYrD_zhopYI


He commented that he had set his ISO to 100, shutter speed to 250 and a high F stop....so when I tried this out on my cameras of course I got the above. I assume he is using a better flash than me in that case, or it's because it is wired in, not using a remote.

See, it's all learning.

I could make my life easier now and copy what he is doing but limit my shutter speed to 1/200....or enable high speed sync.

 

[Phil V]

....so when I tried this out on my cameras of course I got the above. I assume he is using a better flash than me in that case, or it's because it is wired in, not using a remote.

What ‘above’?

And stop rushing, breathe and read. He’s not getting better results cos he’s got a better flash, but because he knows what he’s doing.

HSS is NOT for freezing motion, usually it’s used when we need to mix flash with bright sunlight. The flash duration is short enough to freeze any motion.

 

[Adamcski]

Yes, I know and appreciate that.

What ‘above’? - he set his S5 up in M mode, Iso 100, 1/250 SS and F22. Flash in M 1/32.

I put my S5 into M mode, ISO 100, F22 but the SS wouldn't go above 1/200... Flash in M 1/32.

That's where I have been stuck. How come his S5 allowed him to set his SS at 1/250 and mine wouldn't go above 1/200.


So, I started reading and looking around. It would appear that the system I use limits SS to 1/200 based on the post I made above, and a few other YT videos (some people using Godox Xpro and godox flash on Nikon were also limited to 1/200).

My way around this would appear to be enabling high speed sync, which allows me to push my SS to 1/250 also, just like the gent taking the flower images in the YouTube video I linked to.

I'm not rushing, if anything I'm doing quite the opposite and trying to read around and learn. I've read about HSS and it's use as a fill light for portraits in sunny conditions for example.

Now, the only thing different between the gent taking flower images outside and me is the fact he is using a cable to trigger the flash, whereas I am using a wireless trigger...

Hope that makes sense.

So if I was out with that guy in the video, using the tools I have (same camera and lens) and tried to mimic his settings, I'd either be stuck with a SS of 1/200 or I'd have to enable HSS and then I could copy his exact camera settings of 1/250, F22, ISO 100.

Only difference between his tools and mine is the flash and the method to trigger it.

 

[Phil V]

What ‘above’? - he set his S5 up in M mode, Iso 100, 1/250 SS and F22.

I put my S5 into M mode, ISO 100, F22 but the SS wouldn't go above 1/200...

Sync speed depends on camera* it’ll tell you in the manual what your sync speed is.

But to all intents and purposes there is NO difference between a 1/200 and a 1/250 shot.

* there are some circumstances where some gear may work better if you lower the SS when shooting with flash, and indeed you can use HSS but you need to understand WHY you’d want to.

Those settings are designed for a very specific shot, so unless you’re taking a very similar shot, those settings are gonna be wrong. Mostly, you can’t expect a speedlight to give out enough light for f22 at ISO 100 if not shooting at very close distances.

 

[Adamcski]

Yes, again I get that.

I was purely trying to ascertain why that chap could set his SS to 1/250 and mine was not moving any further than 1/200 (given we have the same camera and lens).

We have the same camera and lens, so it has to be the flash / trigger mechanism.

Then I thought, well how would I achieve the same camera settings...which in my case would mean switching HSS on and then I could also select 1/250 and have the same settings as him.

I was really trying to establish why he could do it and why I couldn't. Think I've got there in the end and established it's because of the trigger / flash combo I have limits flash sync to 1/200.

It was the WHY I was trying to work out..I may never use these settings or take the same sort of shot...I just have a very inquisitive mind and wanted to know why he could do something and I couldn't lol

 

[Phil V]

Yes, again I get that.

I was purely trying to ascertain why that chap could set his SS to 1/250 and mine was not moving any further than 1/200 (given we have the same camera and lens).

We have the same camera and lens, so it has to be the flash / trigger mechanism.

Then I thought, well how would I achieve the same camera settings...which in my case would mean switching HSS on and then I could also select 1/250 and have the same settings as him.

I was really trying to establish why he could do it and why I couldn't. Think I've got there in the end and established it's because of the trigger / flash combo I have limits flash sync to 1/200.

It was the WHY I was trying to work out..I may never use these settings or take the same sort of shot...I just have a very inquisitive mind and wanted to know why he could do something and I couldn't lol

So; your camera flash sync speed is 1/250, so there may be an issue somewhere.

However; in normal use the difference between 1/200 and 1/250 isn’t major.

It’s no good trying to copy settings without understanding why those settings were chosen. And it seems to me you don’t understand the basics of flash photography (in your defence, many photographers are scared stiff of flash, because the first time they use it, the results are crap so they decide flash is crap and not for them).

 

[Adamcski]

Well I wouldn't say I'm a master of flash at this point no lol. But I've had some great results playing around with it for macro work.

I'm not worried about why he chose those settings, I was worried why I couldn't set the camera up with those settings and he could, incase my camera was broken or something, but I appear to have established why now

Problem I believe has been solved.

Also helps when you look at the list of compatible models on the flash manual and it doesn't list the S5 just older models like G85/GX85, with a caveat that other models need individual testing . So although my camera may have a flash syn speed of 1/250, doesn't look like this flash works with it, so it won't do 1/250 without HSS enabled...so that's why I've not been able to mirror that guy's settings.

Ta da, problem solved.

I've read the S5 manual and that is set up correctly and I've read the manual for the flash. Given other people online have the same issue (sync speed capping at 1/200 until HSS is enabled) it would appear that I've set everything up as it should be, and it's a limit of the equipment I'm using.

That was the answer I was seeking, not the reasoning behind why he had used XYZ settings for his particular photos (chap in YT video).