"Heroin At Nevertell"

[Vic]

Then for all I know, she may be an otherwise highly accomplished portrait/fashion/landscape shrug photographer who just chose to 'dumb it down' for this assignment :|.

Hmmm tackling a real life issue as opposed to a fashion shoot is "dumbing it down". Jeez I pity what the world would be if they education was based on fashion photographs!

Sorry Andy but ripping apart another excellent and accomplished photographer's work in a bid to "stick up" for Luke's is a bit out of order in my opinion. :nono: Luke is a big boy and as a lot of people have said has a bright future and I'm sure he wouldnt want these type of posts on his thread.

 

[evilonion]

I think that technically these pictures have been done well.
far better than anything im producing at the moment, and hats off for giving the subject a go.

Its all a learning curve.. maybe try again but next time change a few things.
Learn from what has worked and what hasnt...

you could continue with this if you want to pursue the baby theme and have the mum jacking up with the baby in the background oof.

Just reading through this thread gave me a hundred shoot ideas, and if i sat for the evening id probably be able to come up with a lot more.

Dont give up

I Dont think many of the comparisons here are very fair on the op, i never read the intial hype etc just saw this thread. but i like it

Not many people have the balls to attempt a project like this

 

[ding76uk]

Sorry to be the lone voice of dissent here, but aren't we supposed to be photographers discussing photographic skills :shrug:?

I looked at the photographs in that link and with one or two exceptions, I didn't see any well composed or well executed images (frankly, some of them are just very poor 'grab shots' :|). Quite honestly, anyone with basic knowledge of how to operate a camera could have taken those same shots.

But they didn't! and before you attack someone, maybe google first!

http://www.jessicadimmockphotography.com/tear-sheets/

To save you more time her awards:

The F Award for Concerned Photography
The Inge Morath Award for Photojournalism
Juror's Choice Award, The Santa Fe Center for Photography
The Marty Forscher Fellowship, Photo District News
New York Photo Festival, Best Multimedia Project
Picture of the Year International, Best Photography Book, Finalist
The New York Times Scholarship for Photojournalism

Here is the actual series of pictures, which differ to the link I posted

http://www.jessicadimmockphotography.com/projects/the-ninth-floor/

Image 42 is to me the strongest, although technically not perfect.

Anyone can be taught the technical side of photography, in reality it is basic maths. To make a photo that speaks to people is the hard part, but unfortunately too many people concentrate on the first part.

I am not digging at Luke at all, my point is, to me, the photograph is not shocking, not original, and leaves me cold.

I think people who are busy trying to be confrontational, crazy etc. very rarely are.

The photo is shocking for the sake of shocking you, and in a very contrived manner. I don't know if you sat through the whole 13 mins, but one of the subjects jacking up in a hospital, now that is shocking, and authentic and original.

Also if you try to shoot something you do not have a full understanding of or spend a lot of time around then your results will generally lack authenticity. Sorry just my 2 cents.
[/RANT]

 

[purpleclouds]

Very well shot. Can't fault it technically (way above my level of expertise).

However the models look far too healthy and clean to be living in that kind of environment as regular IV drug users. I don't know if you have pushed the boundaries as it remind me heavily of Trainspotting in feel and I have seen this kind of image before only not quite as polished.

This is based upon the above image. I will check out the others when I get a chance.

Can't help but agree I'm afraid.. as soon as I saw it, I thought of Trainspotting.. whilst they're great images, they aren't anything I've never seen before.

I think you're thinking along the right lines though, and great things don't happen overnight.. keep at it and keep developing and it'll come

 

[Jayst84]

Sorry to be the lone voice of dissent here, but aren't we supposed to be photographers discussing photographic skills :shrug:?

I looked at the photographs in that link and with one or two exceptions, I didn't see any well composed or well executed images (frankly, some of them are just very poor 'grab shots' :|). Quite honestly, anyone with basic knowledge of how to operate a camera could have taken those same shots. ...

I know you went on to praise other aspects of the work, but I think you're missing something here. It's a lot harder to shoot like that and make it work than you may think. They aren't crappy grab shots, they're shot in a style deliberately to evoke a mood and emotions in the viewer.. to help them connect with the subject. To shoot a cohesive story over three years in that style takes a lot of photographic skill along with a knowledge of your subject and photographic history.

I don't think there are many people out there who could do it, I can't think of anyone on TP who I'd put faith in pulling it off anywhere near as well.

As you said it's such a different genre, with a completely different aim to Luke's photographs that it becomes almost a mute point in comparison anyway. Though on the topic of boundaries in photography I suppose it goes someway to proving a point.

As for the original photos that this thread used to be about, I think it's mostly been said already. Technically fine, but the hype was far greater than the end result.

#3 I think it was on the Flickr set is a pretty photo. But as a whole they aren't doing much for me, they just look like another Luke fashion shoot with a different set of models. Faux heroin with babies is nothing new, even real heroin with babies has been seen before. I think these come across as too contrived, the baby looks like it's been forced into the shot 'because that would be shocking' and therefore it isn't shocking at all.

You'd get a single, maybe push hard for two, but they're a long way from any boundaries.

 

[Naboo32]

Hmmm tackling a real life issue as opposed to a fashion shoot is "dumbing it down". Jeez I pity what the world would be if they education was based on fashion photographs!

Sorry Andy but ripping apart another excellent and accomplished photographer's work in a bid to "stick up" for Luke's is a bit out of order in my opinion. :nono: Luke is a big boy and as a lot of people have said has a bright future and I'm sure he wouldnt want these type of posts on his thread.

Vic, the 'dumbing it down' phrase referred purely to the technical aspects of those photographs (focus, exposure and composition), not the assignment itself (which I took great pains to praise). As for 'ripping it apart' - well, I just spoke as I saw :shrug:. Say what you like, but an alwful lot of those photographs lack the (look of the) kind of technical expertise which I personally seek out in photography. Sorry that you find my opinion to be out of order :|.

Also, it's not Luke that I'm really 'sticking up' for here - it's my opinion of his work to date that I want to be heard. I just felt that the thread had been de-railed somewhat by bringing in comparisons by photographers working to do something completely different and I so I wanted to redress the balance and get back to discussing the qulaity of images on display in this thread.

 

[Naboo32]

But they didn't! and before you attack someone, maybe google first!

http://www.jessicadimmockphotography.com/tear-sheets/

To save you more time her awards:

The F Award for Concerned Photography
The Inge Morath Award for Photojournalism
Juror's Choice Award, The Santa Fe Center for Photography
The Marty Forscher Fellowship, Photo District News
New York Photo Festival, Best Multimedia Project
Picture of the Year International, Best Photography Book, Finalist
The New York Times Scholarship for Photojournalism

Here is the actual series of pictures, which differ to the link I posted

http://www.jessicadimmockphotography.com/projects/the-ninth-floor/

Image 42 is to me the strongest, although technically not perfect.

Anyone can be taught the technical side of photography, in reality it is basic maths. To make a photo that speaks to people is the hard part, but unfortunately too many people concentrate on the first part.

I am not digging at Luke at all, my point is, to me, the photograph is not shocking, not original, and leaves me cold.

I think people who are busy trying to be confrontational, crazy etc. very rarely are.

The photo is shocking for the sake of shocking you, and in a very contrived manner. I don't know if you sat through the whole 13 mins, but one of the subjects jacking up in a hospital, now that is shocking, and authentic and original.

Also if you try to shoot something you do not have a full understanding of or spend a lot of time around then your results will generally lack authenticity. Sorry just my 2 cents.
[/RANT]

Hi Carl,

Thanks for your well-worded and considered response to my earlier post .

As I said in my post, "for all I know", Jessica Dimmock may have been capable of technically 'better' photography than that which was displayed in the article (I only made it to 8 mins, BTW ). Be that as it may, I am still very much entitled to have an opinion about the end results of that work without researching her whole life's work and as I said, I admire her immensley for the (emotional) content of her photographs, but not for the execution of them :|. That's not "an attack" is it!? I simply said what I didn't like about those photographs and praised her for the end results, nonetheless :shrug:.

Frankly, I don't like Celene Dion's music either and she's probably got a bigger trophy room than most photographers, but does that mean that I have to lie and say that I think that she's producing amazing work, if pushed for an opinion :shrug:? No!

I agree with your point about things looking "too contrived" when people set out to 'fake' these kind of images, but the wolrd of commercial photography is absolutely chock full of such images - people love to look at them and they make a lot of money for the companies who use them to advertise. When I look at what Luke is doing here, I think about how it could be applied to this kind of commercial photography (the line of work which he aims to persure, as far as I can work out) and I really think that he's on the right lines .

This is why I felt the need to voice the other side of the 'contrived' arguement - simply because the pictures in the OP are contrived by their very nature and (IMO) should be judged accordingly (not compared to 'real life' docu-shots).

 

[Naboo32]

I know you went on to praise other aspects of the work, but I think you're missing something here. It's a lot harder to shoot like that and make it work than you may think. They aren't crappy grab shots, they're shot in a style deliberately to evoke a mood and emotions in the viewer.. to help them connect with the subject. To shoot a cohesive story over three years in that style takes a lot of photographic skill along with a knowledge of your subject and photographic history.

I don't think there are many people out there who could do it, I can't think of anyone on TP who I'd put faith in pulling it off anywhere near as well.

As you said it's such a different genre, with a completely different aim to Luke's photographs that it becomes almost a mute point in comparison anyway. Though on the topic of boundaries in photography I suppose it goes someway to proving a point.

As for the original photos that this thread used to be about, I think it's mostly been said already. Technically fine, but the hype was far greater than the end result.

#3 I think it was on the Flickr set is a pretty photo. But as a whole they aren't doing much for me, they just look like another Luke fashion shoot with a different set of models. Faux heroin with babies is nothing new, even real heroin with babies has been seen before. I think these come across as too contrived, the baby looks like it's been forced into the shot 'because that would be shocking' and therefore it isn't shocking at all.

You'd get a single, maybe push hard for two, but they're a long way from any boundaries.

Hi James,

All I can really say in response to the first part is that, having seen your Gatwick Hotel set, if it been you in there with the camera and you'd stuck it out for three years, I have little doubt that the resulting images would be far closer to my personal taste - that's all :|.

As for the second point about the images being contrived - I agree ! I just happen to like the look of them :|. The 'pushing the boundaries' side of this argument is one that I have deliberatley kept out of in this thread (apart from when I suggested to Luke that he change the title to "Pushing My Boundaries"), but I take your point .

 

[ding76uk]

I think you're missing the point Andy. Where do these images fit?

They would not be used to sell a product, for obvious reasons.
They are not powerful enough to use in an anti drugs campaign (due to the models looking beautiful).
They are not a great work of social commentary as this has been done way better.

So what is the point of these images, esp. in a commercial context?

Lukes original post prior to this is how he wants to be a bad boy of photography. Do you think the 25 featured in that magazine concentrated on being a bad boy? Or do you think they concentrated on being photographers?

 

[Vic]

Vic, the 'dumbing it down' phrase referred purely to the technical aspects of those photographs (focus, exposure and composition), not the assignment itself (which I took great pains to praise). As for 'ripping it apart' - well, I just spoke as I saw :shrug:. Say what you like, but an alwful lot of those photographs lack the (look of the) kind of technical expertise which I personally seek out in photography. Sorry that you find my opinion to be out of order :|.

Also, it's not Luke that I'm really 'sticking up' for here - it's my opinion of his work to date that I want to be heard. I just felt that the thread had been de-railed somewhat by bringing in comparisons by photographers working to do something completely different and I so I wanted to redress the balance and get back to discussing the qulaity of images on display in this thread.

I could argue about my pet hate of people's perception of photography is that it has to be perfectly exposed, sharp, rule of thirds, etc (yawn) but I seem to have that argument a lot. I'll leave it with that Jessica's work isnt "lacking" anything, that is her photographic look.

You seem to keep talking about "technical expertise". There is no doubt that Luke is technically sound, he has it coming out his ears! However its the content, "the pushing boundries", controversy approach that people are commenting on. Your statement above;

The 'pushing the boundaries' side of this argument is one that I have deliberatley kept out of in this thread

So really you are only commenting on the look of the images which everyone has agreed is fantastic! Carl, when giving Dimmocks work as an example, was commenting on the content and how Luke could improve the "pushing boundries" aspect, which you say you dont want to comment on.

You were right about it being especially Luke that is warranting this reponse. But this isnt someone who has just posted these as part of a portfolio project, this is someone who wants to be one of the best fashion photographers out there, someone akin to LaChappele so he has got the response to suit the goal in my opinion.

If I were Luke and I had put a project I had worked hard on up here you'd want to bet I would like a thread like this and not 30 posts of "wow, nice shot", "its so sharp and well exposed!".

 

[Naboo32]

I think you're missing the point Andy. Where do these images fit?

They would not be used to sell a product, for obvious reasons.
They are not powerful enough to use in an anti drugs campaign (due to the models looking beautiful).
They are not a great work of social commentary as this has been done way better.

So what is the point of these images, esp. in a commercial context?

Lukes original post prior to this is how he wants to be a bad boy of photography. Do you think the 25 featured in that magazine concentrated on being a bad boy? Or do you think they concentrated on being photographers?

Yeah, you're right Carl. There are lots of issues surrounding these images which should be discussed, aside from the obvious aesthetics.

I concede that I had no right to post so defensively, when everyone else was simply stating their opinion about the whole project/concept .

I could argue about my pet hate of people's perception of photography is that it has to be perfectly exposed, sharp, rule of thirds, etc (yawn) but I seem to have that argument a lot. I'll leave it with that Jessica's work isnt "lacking" anything, that is her photographic look.

You seem to keep talking about "technical expertise". There is no doubt that Luke is technically sound, he has it coming out his ears! However its the content, "the pushing boundries", controversy approach that people are commenting on. Your statement above;



So really you are only commenting on the look of the images which everyone has agreed is fantastic! Carl, when giving Dimmocks work as an example, was commenting on the content and how Luke could improve the "pushing boundries" aspect, which you say you dont want to comment on.

You were right about it being especially Luke that is warranting this reponse. But this isnt someone who has just posted these as part of a portfolio project, this is someone who wants to be one of the best fashion photographers out there, someone akin to LaChappele so he has got the response to suit the goal in my opinion.

If I were Luke and I had put a project I had worked hard on up here you'd want to bet I would like a thread like this and not 30 posts of "wow, nice shot", "its so sharp and well exposed!".

I take your point too, Vicky - you (rightly) feel that this is kind of subject is better tackled 'honestly', as in the style of Ms. Dimmock, and that Luke deserves tough c&c after his rather outspoken OP. I respect that.

I will never agree with you about the technical merits of that particular set of photos though and I really don't appreciate the personal and patronising remarks that you have made about me throughout this thread :|.

Anyway, I've said all I had to say about these pictures. I'll bow out now and let some other people have their say .

 

[-Rob-]

Having read your initial thread with interest and anticipation I have to admit I was expecting to be disappointed because I got the feeling you hyped it far more than you could possibly deliver.......and I was right.

Taking the image above purely in isolation I admit it is a well executed image and your processing of it is done very well but controversial and pushing the boundaries.....NO!!!

I have to admit I've only seen the 1 image above as I am in work and can't get on to Flickr but what I fail to see if why you possibly needed 6 months of planning and a team of 9 people to create a photo like that. Why would you use good looking models who have been made to look nice by a MUA? Also the setting looks far too much like an abandoned building which is exactly what it is. A couple of models wouldn't shoot up in an abandoned building with a baby. They'd do it in their nice penthouse apartment.

I can tell from your comments that you are happy with the outcome and that you've achieved what you've set out to achieve which is that people are talking about it (even if it is just on this forum). However, from my impressions of what you were initially trying to do I'd say you still have some way to go to actually push any boundaries.

 

[Arkady]

Sorry to be the lone voice of dissent here, but aren't we supposed to be photographers discussing photographic skills :shrug:?

I looked at the photographs in that link and with one or two exceptions, I didn't see any well composed or well executed images (frankly, some of them are just very poor 'grab shots' :|). Quite honestly, anyone with basic knowledge of how to operate a camera could have taken those same shots. The 'skill', 'kudos' (or whatever positive term you care to choose) in those photographs, lies in the fact that Jessica Dimmock took the time to get to know her subjects, put herself in the right (dangerous) place at the right time to capture the images and used very good judgement about what to photograph and publish. For that alone, I'm as in awe of her work as anyone else here and applaud her heartily .

Her pictures certainly tell a powerful, true and rather tragic story. As photo journalism, they are very praise-worthy (IMO); as 'art'/creative imagery, they offer very little (again, IMO :|). Then for all I know, she may be an otherwise highly accomplished portrait/fashion/landscape shrug photographer who just chose to 'dumb it down' for this assignment :|.

I didn't get the impression that Luke Woodford was trying to pass himself off as photo journalist, so I don't really see the need for this sort of comparison. The bottom line though, for me (now that the comparison has been made), is that I would definitely want to look at Luke's images again (and again) - Jessica's, not so :|.

Anyway, I'm tired of seeming to be a sycophant (I'm not, BTW ), defending Luke at every turn. It's just that in my opinion, he's one of the most exciting new photographers that we have on this forum and yet the general tone of these posts seems to have turned to assasinating his character/motives, rather than actually discussing his images and their visual qualities.

In fact, I have a very strong suspicion that if these pictures had been posted here by any other TP member, without all of the fanfare of Luke's OP, we'd be looking at 10+ pages of solid congratulations .....

[/RANT]

I find myself in broad agreement with Andy here...

Jessica's work, while visually arresting, relies more for impact on the subject matter, rather than any inherent technical excellence... Photographically - creatively - they're rather poor, but that's missing the point - her images are a visual record of actual events rather than something created specifically to entertain, which is where Luke's images come in...

Luke's images have the advantage of being 'created' as opposed to 'taken'...which means he can look at them, correct any deficiencies and repeat...

I think Luke has missed the mark a wee bit with these shots, but at least he's trying - and thank God someone is...

 

[boyfalldown]

I was looking at these images and a number of things strike me about them and the thread.

I think they are great images. Certainly for a fashion shoot and I could happily see one of the retailers who like to push things with their advertising going for these. Someone like American Apparel maybes

I think you have a considerable ability to market yourself, and create something around you, if you can maybe learn to direct this a littlemore then I think it'd do you great service. I know part of the reason for the length and comments in this thread is because you didn't direct the hype properly.

Carry on trying, and expanding what you're doing, as Rob says above atleast you are
pushing yourself

 

[ding76uk]

I think they are great images. Certainly for a fashion shoot and I could happily see one of the retailers who like to push things with their advertising going for these. Someone like American Apparel maybes

Heroin should never be part of a fashion shoot, and there is no way any retailer would take these as part of an Ad campaign! Even the edgiest companies have common sense when it comes to glamourising Heroin.

 

[boyfalldown]

Heroin should never be part of a fashion shoot, and there is no way any retailer would take these as part of an Ad campaign! Even the edgiest companies have common sense when it comes to glamourising Heroin.

Maybe, or maybe not but companies like AA do push the photography in their advertising often, and my point was a company like that loves an edgy feel to their stuff, I'm sure they can come up with other ideas besides heroin though

 

[PsiFox]

Heroin should never be part of a fashion shoot, and there is no way any retailer would take these as part of an Ad campaign! Even the edgiest companies have common sense when it comes to glamourising Heroin.

No they don't we had the whole heroin chic thing back in the 90's, it even resulted in the death of one of it's proponents a photographer with an Italian name that escapes me for the moment.

 

[ding76uk]

No they don't we had the whole heroin chic thing back in the 90's, it even resulted in the death of one of it's proponents a photographer with an Italian name that escapes me for the moment.

That was a look, there was no photo showing actual use?

Heroin Chic Era Models were no more bulimic, nicotine-soaked or coked-up than before or after. Designers simply had a new look, and needed a catchphrase for it, and the Daily Mail caught on.

There was never a published pic showing usage!

 

[boyfalldown]

That was a look, there was no photo showing actual use?

Heroin Chic Era Models were no more bulimic, nicotine-soaked or coked-up than before or after. Designers simply had a new look, and needed a catchphrase for it, and the Daily Mail caught on.

There was never a published pic showing usage!

but there are advertisers now who will court contreversy with their campaigns. Luke would fit very well in one of those places

 

[ding76uk]

but there are advertisers now who will court contreversy with their campaigns. Luke would fit very well in one of those places

There is courting contreversy and comitting commercial suicide.

Just as a nod to the heroin chic, here are the most outraged images of the time taken by Corrine Day


NSFW
http://lemontartletsandwinegums.blogspot.com/2010/01/underexposure-by-corinne-day-featuring.html

There is a big jump from that to a picture of fashion clothing with someone jacking up!

 

[boyfalldown]

I think there are enough companies out their who don't regard it as commercial sucide, because it makes us uncomfortable doesn't mean their target market doesn't lap it up, and the contreversy only strengthens the brand

 

[Kaouthia]

contreversy only strengthens the brand

Controversy did wonders for BP.

 

[boyfalldown]

Controversy did wonders for BP.

BP was hardly advertising fashion were they?

 

[Arkady]

BP was hardly advertising fashion were they?

Think of the potential though:

...skimpy swimsuit models covered in crude oil wallowing about in the Louisiana sunshine...

 

[Kaouthia]

BP was hardly advertising fashion were they?

No, but it was merely to prove the point that the old phrase "any publicity is good publicity" isn't always true. Advertising is publicity.

 

[ding76uk]

Think of the potential though:

...skimpy swimsuit models covered in crude oil wallowing about in the Louisiana sunshine...

Add heroin and maybe a little animal/child abuse, and the companies would be lining up to use it in an advert

 

[boyfalldown]

No, but it was merely to prove the point that the old phrase "any publicity is good publicity" isn't always true. Advertising is publicity.

but I don't see what you proved? I never said any publicity was good publicity. I said some companies court contrvisy in their adverts. AA are one example, and its hard to think they didn't know the ASA would ban this in response to the complaints they knew it would generate

http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/930931/American-Apparel-ad-banned-under-16-model/

I think Luke would suit working with a company that pushes things a little very well. I don't think he's too likely to cover large parts of the Southern USA in Oil though

 

[ding76uk]

but I don't see what you proved? I never said any publicity was good publicity. I said some companies court contrvisy in their adverts. AA are one example, and its hard to think they didn't know the ASA would ban this in response to the complaints they knew it would generate

But AA used a model who is very good looking to advertise products, sex sells, everyone knows that and that is what AA use. IMHO the ASA over reacted in that case you posted, she was old enough.

Sex sells drugs don't, Heroin disgusts people and has no glamour to it, cocaine is more of the fashionable cool drug, heroin is seen as dirty and disgusting, even by a lot of those who fall victim to addiction of it.

I showed the image to my wife who works in Drugs Rehab, she said a poor fake shot that shocks using the obvious and takes the **** out of a very real problem.

I don't know how else I can say it?

HEORIN IS NOT FASHIONABLE IN ANY CONTEXT AND WOULD NOT BE USED TO SELL ANYTHING AS IT IS A NASTY DIRTY DRUG!

 

[boyfalldown]

But AA used a model who is very good looking to advertise products, sex sells, everyone knows that and that is what AA use. IMHO the ASA over reacted in that case you posted, she was old enough.

I think you're right, but my point was really that AA knew what the reaction would be (or its hard to think they didn't), and AA also settled out of court with Woody Allen last year after using his image in an advert, its not just sex sells with them

sex sells drugs don't, Heroin disgusts people and has no glamour to it, cocaine is more of the fashionable cool drug, heroin is seen as dirty and disgusting, even by a lot of those who fall victim to addiction of it.

I showed the image to my wife who works in Drugs Rehab, she said a poor fake shot that shocks using the obvious and takes the **** out of a very real problem.

I don't know how else I can say it?

HEORIN IS NOT FASHIONABLE IN ANY CONTEXT AND WOULD NOT BE USED TO SELL ANYTHING AS IT IS A NASTY DIRTY DRUG!

I agree with you the point I was trying to make, is the style of images Luke produces (but maybe not the heroin subject matter and I did say that earlier too - in post #96) would appeal to a company, like AA which likes to push things a little

 

[PsiFox]

That was a look, there was no photo showing actual use?

Heroin Chic Era Models were no more bulimic, nicotine-soaked or coked-up than before or after. Designers simply had a new look, and needed a catchphrase for it, and the Daily Mail caught on.

There was never a published pic showing usage!

Didn't need to be, power of the mind and the copywrite department is enough

 

[inkiboo]

I know I'm late to the party but I can't believe I read through the "pushing the boundaries" thread to be presented with this mediocrity.

I'm obviously biased because it someone who is working for the same company as me, but this is pushing boundaries.

ARLINGTON, VA - MAY 27: Mary McHugh mourns her slain fiance Sgt. James Regan at 'Section 60' of the Arlington National Cemetery May 27, 2007. Regan, a US Army Ranger, was killed by an IED explosion in Iraq in February of this year, and this was the first time McHugh had visited the grave since the funeral. Section 60, the newest portion of the vast national cemetery on the outskirts of Washington D.C, contains hundreds of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Family members of slain American soldiers have flown in from across the country for Memorial Day. (Photo by John Moore/Getty Images)

That photo pushes the boundaries of grief whilst telling the story. It pushes the boundaries of someone's private moment and simultaneously shows the sacrifice their loved one made.

A posed shot with some fake junkies is not pushing boundaries.

 

[Triggaaar]

That photo pushes the boundaries of grief whilst telling the story.

I don't disagree with your initial comments, but that photo doesn't push boundaries either. That doesn't mean it's not a good photo, telling a story, but it's not like no one has ever seen a picture of someone grieving before.

 

[inkiboo]

I don't disagree with your initial comments, but that photo doesn't push boundaries either. That doesn't mean it's not a good photo, telling a story, but it's not like no one has ever seen a picture of someone grieving before.

I don't recall many photos of someone talking at the grave of their loved one displayed in such a public and yet personal way.

But as I said, I am biased but would love to see similar photos to the John Moore one to compare/contrast.