Horse jumping photos

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Name
David
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I am looking for a bit of help.....I have recently started taking photos of my horse being jumped. I seem to have good timing and am working on the composition. However, technically I am struggling a bit as I am not sure how to get the best out of my camera.

I use a Canon 400D with a Sigma 70-210 F2.8 lens. I use shutter priority with a speed of around 1/1600 and an ISO of 400.....this usually gives me a reasonable aperture setting. I have set the camera to focus on the centre only and for partial metering. I prefocus on the fence and then press the final bit of the shutter when I think the horse is in the best position. My horse is dark bay (brown) and I have found it helps to have exposure compensation of +1/3 to get decent tone but then I think that I may need to do some compensation digitally afterwords. I am currently using the software that came with the camera.

I tend to choose my position so that the sun is on my back, although this can be difficult at the moment as the sun is so high in the sky as it is mid-summer.

I am reasonably happy with about 30% of my photos (although the riders I photo seem happy with most of them!) but am not sure what to do to improve.

I would like some tips on how to get the best out of the equipment I have. I realise that there is better equipment out there but I do not want to go down that route yet.

I attach a couple of photos taken last weekend as examples.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1341/4726321367_8bfbc56844_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/4726321259_3e7ea8c16c_b.jpg

Staff edit: Images changed to links as the forum limit is 800 pixels. Please feel free to replace with resized images
 
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The first one is very nice. The second looks a little soft to me and the background is very busy. I re5alise that backgrounds are difficult in these circumstances. Sometimes they can be improved a lot just by changing the angle only slightly and using a wider aperture to blur it and separate your subject a little more. A more head on view might have given more distance between subject and background in this instance.

I tend to use aperture priority to ensure that I get as much separation as possible. What aperture was used for #2? (I haven't got access to EXIF where I am). For side on shots like these, you could use f2.8 and still get the forse and rider sharp and you would certainly get the required shutter speed, probably without needing to go as high as ISO400 even.

HTH

Edi: I would be inclined to shoot with the sun more to the side than directly on the subject as the light will be less harsh.
 
Bearing in mind that I shoot horses but I've never done showjumping here's my advice! I like the first much more than the second, having the jump at an angle is much more pleasing to the eye and the position of the horses legs is better.
The second you seem to be focussed on a sign behind the horse rather than the horse and the front on angle doesn't show the jump well and makes the horses hind legs look sloppy.
I'm not sure what the pro's do when shooting showjumping but I would be inclined to focus on the horse rather than the jump, especially if you're using your lens at f2.8.
Also as fabs said, you probably don't need iso 400 if you're at 2.8. However just noticed that you're using shutter priority, which probably means you're not shooting at f2.8. Try using aperture priority, setting to f2.8, which will be harder at first as your depth of field is reduced, but will ultimately give you better pics where the background is blurry, you don't notice the objects in the background so much, and the horse will stand out.
 
You do not need a decent aperture, go wide open to f2.8 and as long as you can get 1/640 second or greater that is fine. Sounds to me like you have got the technique of pre-focussing and taking correct as this is the way that it is normally done by equestrian photographers (second does however seem to be focussed on the Katherine James jump to the rear of the horse). If you were consistently producing images like that (focussing withstanding) there are a number of event photographers that would happily have you working for them.

To get the complete horse in frame as you have done even at f2.8 and at 200mm will mean that most of the background will be reasonably sharp - this is not an issue for images for sale to riders as this is what the majority of event photographers are limited to achieving.

The main issue is with the metering and this is something that is very important to riders - the correct colour of their horse. In the second image due to the sun being to your right it is inevitable that the riders face and areas of the horses neck and face will be in shadow.

If you have the time available use a grey card/meter and set a manual reading for exposure. Rings that have the shredded tyre surface make an excellent alternative to a grey card. Sand is not reliable as the light is not constant so dont base any exposure on it.

Mike
 
polochick said:
I'm not sure what the pro's do when shooting showjumping but I would be inclined to focus on the horse rather than the jump, especially if you're using your lens at f2.8.
Click to expand...


Normal Pro approach is to pre-focus on the jump as even at f2.8 and 200mm there is enough depth of field to keep the horse sharp enough. 99% of riders aim for the middle of the fence so there is no issue.

As to angle of shot the ideal situation is to pick up a number of jumps and give a selection of angles - riders like to see the extension of the horse which is why images like the second are popular and unfortunately the photographer has no control over how the shape of the horse is other than the timing of the shot.

Mike
 
i always use AISERVO rather than prefocus personally, with the unpredictible nature of jumping (certainly during jump-offs where they cut corners) you may be a smidge off and at f2.8 it may make a word of difference. plus its easier when covering multiple jumps.
 
mike weeks said:
We would have to agree to disagree as it is far to easy for autofocus to lock onto something else and I get just as many jumps in focus with pre-focussing as I do with any auto focus and tracking the horse.

Mike
Click to expand...

fortunately the 1D has a multlitude of settings to handle things passing through shot in front of the subject while tracking :)

but then 80-90% of the time even the 20D was pretty good at tracking..

but yeah, horses for courses.. (pun intended lol)
 
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mike weeks said:
Normal Pro approach is to pre-focus on the jump as even at f2.8 and 200mm there is enough depth of field to keep the horse sharp enough. 99% of riders aim for the middle of the fence so there is no issue.
Click to expand...

*cough* stuck in old film ways *cough*

sorry but that is crap, the dof at 200mm and f/2.8 for a sharp picture is not very big and modern AF in general and expecially on pro bodies is easily capable of tracking a horse over a jump!
 
as with many types of sports photography the shutter speed required is often not as high as people would imagine.
I personally prefer to select the aperture, it has so much influence over the final appearance of the image, once you have achieved enough speed to freeze the action(if that`s your intention), the depth of field is so important especially when you have cluttered backgrounds.
In the old days photographers used to refer to making the image pop, in other words as narrow as depth of field as you can possibly get away with, backgrounds unless chosen very carefully can be very distracting.
Bear in mind many lenses are not critically sharp used wide open, thankfully for me the Nikon 200f2 is probably as good as it gets.
Here is an image which demonstrates this point.
Ok the horse is not shown to it`s best, this is just an example, notice how the subject is the only thing in focus.
As for pre-focusing, twenty years ago it`s the method I would have chosen, not any more especially with modern af systems.

http://www.pbase.com/wildoat/image/125748444/original.jpg

Staff Edit : Image(s) removed. (Link(s) left in place). Pictures must not exceed current forum limits as per the rules.
Please feel free to replace this with a fresh/resized image and remove this text
 
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fabs said:
Stunning example flavio but can you resize to 800 pixels please.;)
Click to expand...

Sorry , no I can`t.
Don`t have the time, remove the image if you are not happy.
I thought showing the image at this size would give the original question poster a worthwhile example.
Not being awkward, but can`t see the problem with this!
Best regards
Tony
 
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flavio said:
Sorry , no I can`t.
Don`t have the time, remove the image if you are not happy.
I thought showing the image at this size would give the original question poster Not being awkward, but can`t see the problem with this!
Best regards
Tony
Click to expand...

Tony, the forum limit is 800 pixels.It wouldn't be fair on others to make exceptions. I'll break it to a link that will still enable others to see it.
 
fabs said:
Tony, the forum limit is 800 pixels.It wouldn't be fair on others to make exceptions. I'll break it to a link that will still enable others to see it.
Click to expand...
Appreciate that, I thought it was important for the questioner to be able to see the real world difference, thanks for editing and providing an appropriate link.
(I wasn`t being precious) Honest :)
Cheers
Tony
 
hope this is big enough to illustrate the point I was trying to make !

original.jpg


Tony
 
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mike weeks said:
Normal Pro approach is to pre-focus on the jump as even at f2.8 and 200mm there is enough depth of field to keep the horse sharp enough. 99% of riders aim for the middle of the fence so there is no issue.
Click to expand...


Only a beginner compared to most here so I`m prepared to be shot down in flames :
A pro-tog told me that same thing when he was giving me dog agility photo tips, however, I did used to do it that way and often got poor shots as a result, so when trying to solve it I was advised by the peeps on YoPhotographer to pan instead which I tried and liked, so stuck with that instead of following the pro togs advise, and to be honest overall my shots at that show were sharper than the pro`s, [ he printed on the day for punters to buy so I did look at them for comparison ].
Speed-wise when we compared we both had out cameras set up the same and [ shutter at 500 for instance ], his was Canon and mine a Nikon, we were using the equivalent lens type but his was a more advanced camera.
I mean no disrespect and I very much appreciated the many tips and the time he gave me, I just feel panning works better for me personally

Since then I have stuck with panning including for horses Showjumping, I would`nt want to go back to pre-focussing on jumps for dogs or horses when panning give me far better results - and believe me you`d be surprised at how many horses [ and dogs ] don`t go over the `expected` part of the poles, striding even just a foot in distance for approach either side of `optimum` line for take-off is the difference between them being in the frame or not with a pre-focussed spot, been there, found that out for myself :LOL:

**I rarely have the shutter speed over 800, most usual for action shots for me is 500, maybe up or down a little depending on iso at the time for whatever the light is like through the day.
 
Patch said:
Only a beginner compared to most here so I`m prepared to be shot down in flames :
A pro-tog told me that same thing when he was giving me dog agility photo tips, however, I did used to do it that way and often got poor shots as a result, so when trying to solve it I was advised by the peeps on YoPhotographer to pan instead which I tried and liked, so stuck with that instead of following the pro togs advise, and to be honest overall my shots at that show were sharper than the pro`s, [ he printed on the day for punters to buy so I did look at them for comparison ].
Speed-wise when we compared we both had out cameras set up the same and [ shutter at 500 for instance ], his was Canon and mine a Nikon, we were using the equivalent lens type but his was a more advanced camera.
I mean no disrespect and I very much appreciated the many tips and the time he gave me, I just feel panning works better for me personally

Since then I have stuck with panning including for horses Showjumping, I would`nt want to go back to pre-focussing on jumps for dogs or horses when panning give me far better results - and believe me you`d be surprised at how many horses [ and dogs ] don`t go over the `expected` part of the poles, striding even just a foot in distance for approach either side of `optimum` line for take-off is the difference between them being in the frame or not with a pre-focussed spot, been there, found that out for myself :LOL:

**I rarely have the shutter speed over 800, most usual for action shots for me is 500, maybe up or down a little depending on iso at the time for whatever the light is like through the day.
Click to expand...

manual focus habits can die hard, I know an amazing fashion photographer who only manually focuses and only uses primes, fortunately she has time and static subjects to nail every frame
 
A pro-tog told me that same thing when he was giving me dog agility photo tips, however, I did used to do it that way and often got poor shots as a result, so when trying to solve it I was advised by the peeps on YoPhotographer to pan instead which I tried and liked,
Click to expand...

The pro would have meant pre focus on the spot and then pan the camera taking the shot at the appropriate moment when the pre focused area is there. Not kust pre focus and hold the camera still.
 
I use back button focussing - so that I can separate the focussing from the shutter button. That way, you can pre-focus on the centre of the jump and then pan to your heart's content knowing that the focus will not move!
 
Those nice people at Nikon are so good at providing me with modern ,state of the art technology ,that focuses like lightning,that I no longer have to pre focus , deep joy,and super sharp shots .

Of course I could always get the dust of my old film cameras for a bit of nostalgia,but am more than happy with my modern computer ,oops, camera.

Pons
 
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The second shot looks out of focus/ back focused. Check the focusing of your lens, then ditch the sigma and get a proper one!
 
PsiFox said:
The pro would have meant pre focus on the spot and then pan the camera taking the shot at the appropriate moment when the pre focused area is there. Not kust pre focus and hold the camera still.
Click to expand...

He did`nt pan, he waited til the dogs came in to view, since then I have noticed many pro-togs at agility shows doing the same, one or two using a tripod as well and just pressing the button when the dogs are in the frame :eek:
 
PsiFox said:
The pro would have meant pre focus on the spot and then pan the camera taking the shot at the appropriate moment when the pre focused area is there. Not kust pre focus and hold the camera still.
Click to expand...

Yes that is how I do it. Pre-foccusing and panning are 2 non related techniques that you can happily use together.

I have fantastic focussing on the D700 which I use to achieve the initial focus but even the best focussing systems can jump at the wrong point which does not happen with pre-focus.

Mike
 
Many thanks for all your comments and replies. Apologies for not replying earlier but I inadvertently did not subscribe to this thread for some reason.

I have been having problems focusing but now have had a bit more practice and am starting to nail it. To me, the Sigma 70-210 looks a little soft (it is an old lens) and I am considering getting a Canon 70-200 L, possibly the F4 as I do not seem to need to stretch to F2.8 often and I can keep my old Sigma if I need such capability.

I was chatting and working next to a pro at a show the other day and he gave me some useful tips. He sets his camera up for manual exposure but did not prefocus.....however, standing next to him you could hear our shutters go at exactly the same time, so must be getting timing right.

I attach a photo from the Show (West of Wales) http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4856435768_80938247f3.jpg. This is a crop. The day was overcast and the light not brilliant.

For the person who asked, the rider is John Crippen in all my photos.
 
mike weeks said:
Normal Pro approach is to pre-focus on the jump as even at f2.8 and 200mm there is enough depth of field to keep the horse sharp enough. 99% of riders aim for the middle of the fence so there is no issue.

Mike
Click to expand...

Really ?
I always use AI servo and track the horse, focusing on the shoulder as the most important bit to be in focus is the horse and riders heads / faces !! I'd rather not leave it to chance !

I always START at ISO 400, use AV mode where I can get away with it and use an aperture of f4 to start with, this will usually give me a decent shutter speed (i aim for 1/1000th or more) and throw the backgrounds out of focus nicely.


You have had some conflicting advice here so i suggest trying everything and picking what works best for you (y)
 
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Not sure about horses but i always use A1 servo for doing motorsport,never tried horses yet.:)
 
ALWAYS AI servo for me. And use the top focus spot to keep it on the riders head. This way you generally miss tops of wings etc while panning.

I generally stick to F4 outdoors, and aim for between 1/500th and 1/1000th shutter speed. f2.8 leaves a very small DOF at decent focal lengths and I only dip below f4 if I'm maxed out on the other two available settings.

Always manual as different colour horses can throw the exposure out wildly. Metering off grass/sand can help :)
 
These pictures were really nice, awesome, according to my point of view I think that it might be difficult to take photo like this, but I think that you did a fantastic job, I really appreciate your work, and the way you took these photos.
 
Beagletorque said:
The second shot looks out of focus/ back focused. Check the focusing of your lens, then ditch the sigma and get a proper one!
Click to expand...

Have decided to follow your advice and have got myself a Canon 70-200mm L F2.8........Have done a number of comparison shots against my old Sigma and there is a noticeable improvement with the Canon especially at larger apertures where the Sigma is quite soft.

1st show with new lens this weekend...dying to see the results with my "new" lens.
 
jennyjohn said:
These pictures were really nice, awesome, according to my point of view I think that it might be difficult to take photo like this, but I think that you did a fantastic job, I really appreciate your work, and the way you took these photos.
Click to expand...

see ya spambot :wave:
 
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