How bad is this back-focus?! (lens now back, and fixed!)

chris321

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Chris
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So I've thought my 24-70 was a little soft wide open, but recently I needed to use it wide open at 24mm (usually reserved for landscapes, so a smaller aperture and AF less of an issue) and noticed something was going slightly awry with the focussing. So I thought I'd take a shot out of my window and see how it was looking. I used just the centre focus point, and didn't recompose. So the sharpest bit should be right bang in the middle of the shot. The two red squares are where the following 100% crops are from. I'm not a pixel peeper, but it's fairly obvious something's not quite right :D. I fact by my estimation it's back focussing by a truly impressive 15/20m!

img0447sm.jpg


Not a thrilling test subject I know. Now look at the centre, this bit that should be in focus:



centre.jpg


compared to the side (which isn't great, but it's hard to work out exactly where the focus is, distance window reports 1.5m away when focussing on something on the horizon)

sidej.jpg


Am I right in saying there's a pretty big problem there?

The odd thing is there's no problem at all at 70mm. It's slightly out, but about 5 on the microadjust sorts it out fine.

So obviously it's going back to sigma, they did a great job tweaking my 70-200 as it was a tiny bit out and I wanted it perfect before selling it, but I wasn't sure how much it would be.

To check the focus and tweak that, it's a flat rate of £35, regardless of lens, but if there's something more serious then it starts to go up pretty quickly. I can afford the £35 to sort out the focus, but if it'll be an £85 job (which it will be if any parts need replacing etc) then it'll have to wait till I've got the cash. So could any technically-minded people have a thing about whether it could be a 'tweak-able' AF issue, or a more serious repair? I know only Sigma can really say for sure, but if I send it to them, and turn down the quote, it'll still cost £20 anyway which I'd rather save and put towards the actual repair!

Sorry this has been such a long one, any help is very much appreciated!

Chris
 
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Is that the only shot you took, could you repeat it or even better try a car number plate or something more bold. Could it have simply miss focused? if that's a technical term :D
 
I wondered the same - has it just completely failed to focus on the tree due to lack of contrast or detail ?
 
Is that the only shot you took, could you repeat it or even better try a car number plate or something more bold. Could it have simply miss focused? if that's a technical term :D

Quite possibly, I was trying to find a view that had 'stuff' (another technical term) at different distances to see what was sharp. I'll go out in a bit and try to find some more subjects!


I wondered the same - has it just completely failed to focus on the tree due to lack of contrast or detail ?

Again, possibly, but it's remarkably consistent. It doesn't hunt, and focusses very quickly indeed, beeps to confirm it's locked focus, all the rest of it. Hopefully the sun will come out soon and I can do it in better light!

Chris
 
Chris try the three book ends staggered trick or the old ruler at 45* next to a cereal box. Works a treat.
 
Find a focus test chart using google and set up some proper tests.

I've tried the focus test charts in the past, and have got some very inconsistent results with them. I think it's something to do with having to focus on the subject at artificially close distances, but either way the charts and I don't get on with each other :D. Hence me trying a 'real world' test!


Chris try the three book ends staggered trick or the old ruler at 45* next to a cereal box. Works a treat.

I don't actually have 3 books in my room :D (it's the start of term, they haven't build up gathering dust and library fines yet), but I tried the cereal box method....

From about a meter and a half away, 24mm, I ran out of ruler it was front focussing so much :bang:. The 15cm mark was aligned with the face of the box, and the 30cm mark is pretty sharp (that's the closest one, 0cm is furthest away), the 15cm is completely oof. I'll setup on a tripod properly and do tests and microadjust, see how it all looks!
 
I've tried the focus test charts in the past, and have got some very inconsistent results with them. I think it's something to do with having to focus on the subject at artificially close distances, but either way the charts and I don't get on with each other :D. Hence me trying a 'real world' test!




I don't actually have 3 books in my room :D (it's the start of term, they haven't build up gathering dust and library fines yet), but I tried the cereal box method....

From about a meter and a half away, 24mm, I ran out of ruler it was front focussing so much :bang:. The 15cm mark was aligned with the face of the box, and the 30cm mark is pretty sharp (that's the closest one, 0cm is furthest away), the 15cm is completely oof. I'll setup on a tripod properly and do tests and microadjust, see how it all looks!

Don't bother micro adjusting, Chris. That only works on prime lenses. If you micro adjust for the severe front focus you'll knock out any part of the lens that is correct. You'll have to send it offf to be calibrated properly, mate.
 
Don't bother micro adjusting, Chris. That only works on prime lenses. If you micro adjust for the severe front focus you'll knock out any part of the lens that is correct. You'll have to send it offf to be calibrated properly, mate.

Just spent a while trying it having not read your post, and came to the same conclusion myself! I got it looking pretty good with the cereal box thingy, then took another shot out the window and in real-life situations it's still a mess.

Back to Sigma it is then, hopefully it'll just be the cheaper option and not needing any serious work done! Cheers for the suggestions anyway everyone!

Chris
 
Will probably get shot at a bit here, but the words "polishing a turd" spring to mind with regards the Sigma 24-70 if personal experience is anything to go by

Mine didn't have anything wrong with it, but just wasn't impressed by the results. Put it down to user error, but I know others are less than happy with this particular lens
 
Will probably get shot at a bit here, but the words "polishing a turd" spring to mind with regards the Sigma 24-70 if personal experience is anything to go by

Mine didn't have anything wrong with it, but just wasn't impressed by the results. Put it down to user error, but I know others are less than happy with this particular lens

Haha, it's not the best lens in the world, but I wouldn't go that far! I'm quite chufffed with the results when focussing manually or with liveview, but this is going to be my walkabout till I can afford the L version (which won't be for some time, so I want the AF to be as good as it can be!).
 
Maybe it was user error after all then and didn't mean to be insulting in any way Chris

Reckon the only way to get the AF sorted properly is a return to Sigma, a friend has the 24 -60mm and that is so much better (even when I use it)

Might as well get it sorted now because you will no doubt want to sell it in the future to help fund your new lens.

Cheers
Rich
 
Maybe it was user error after all then and didn't mean to be insulting in any way Chris

Reckon the only way to get the AF sorted properly is a return to Sigma, a friend has the 24 -60mm and that is so much better (even when I use it)

Might as well get it sorted now because you will no doubt want to sell it in the future to help fund your new lens.

Cheers
Rich

No offence taken whatsoever :D. Obviously it doesn't really compare to L lenses, but at the price I don't think much does. I'm not too fussy about sharpness on the whole, as most of my stuff is only printed small anyway. Horses for courses and all that!

Yep, it'll be off as soon as I know I can pay for it :D

Chris
 
I'd say you need to get that looked at regardless. The "in focus" bit is still really really really soft.
 
Just an update: student loan came through so it went to Sigma today. Gave them a call and explained the problem, but because it's the model before the 'DG' one, chances are it'll have to go back to Japan if it needs to be fixed..... :bang:

Ah well, I'd better get used to the 50mm being my main 'walkaround' lens, it's now the only thing filling the gap between 35mm and 120mm in my lens lineup, and will be for quite a while by the looks of it!

First person to suggest getting the L version will get a virtual slap from me. I want it. I cannot afford it. Do. Not. Tempt. Me. ;) :lol:

Chris
 
There are so many ways to check. Close up, a staggered line up of AA batteries. Outside ,a picket fence. Strange, but having checked about 15 lenses I have and all perfect autofocus. I tried manual focus but I cannot get it better than auto.Maybe I am lucky. Are you sure the tree branches are not slowly moving in the wind.
 
There are so many ways to check. Close up, a staggered line up of AA batteries. Outside ,a picket fence. Strange, but having checked about 15 lenses I have and all perfect autofocus. I tried manual focus but I cannot get it better than auto.Maybe I am lucky. Are you sure the tree branches are not slowly moving in the wind.

Cheers, I went for the box and ruler method, it didn't go well, the lens is now on it's way to sigma!


Contradiction of the century!!! ;-p

:razz: Sorry I should have said I can't afford it unless I don't pay for food and accommodation for the next 10 weeks :D
 
Another update, Sigma have apparently decided that it's the DG version (which I'm pretty sure it isn't) but have decided they can repair it rather than sending it to Japan ( :) ), so it's the £80 flat fee for fixing both the zoom and the focus mechanism (apparently it's not in a good way!), then calibrated etc. Still, cheaper than buying the Canon version I guess :D
 
yeah hopefully it'll come back nice and crispy sharp for you then you won't want to sell it lol
 
Just got the lens back from Sigma, and from initial tests it seems to be spot on :thumbs:. New zoom mechanism, new af mechanism, and all seems good! I'll do some proper tests after the weekend, but it's another big thumbs up for the Sigma Servicing department! :thumbs:

Chris
 
Interesting....will be good to see the new shots...

What did they charge you if you dont mind me asking?

I'll take one as similar at the first one as soon as the conditions are the same (it's really bright outside, can't expose the sky and trees properly to compare).

They charged £80, they just have a flat fee for each lens regardless of how much work needs doing to it. Sometimes it'll be value for money, sometimes it won't be, but you always know how much it'll be in advance :thumbs:

Chris
 
For those interested, new shot:

img0673s.jpg


And crop:

centrenew.jpg


So not rivalling L standards, but safe to say considerably better for a shot taken while balanced out of a window :)
 
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Not a very scientific way of testing it, but it does look miles better than before.... what a pity Sigma can't actually sell all their lenses spot on like they should be....
 
Anychance of actually putting these images on the one post - saves trying to scroll up an down to see the difference...
 
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