How Creative are you..............Really?

I doubt there's much room for creativity for school photos and there's some scope in wedding photography, especially with locations, bride and groom shots etc, but a lot of that is similar groups as thats what's expected.

There's some in advertising, but once you start looking at it, a lot of recent work seems to refer back to previous Art work. The new Levi's ads (or maybe all Levi's ads) all have a clear reference to Richard Avedon's American West, but is that because he came from advertising? Ther Marks and Sparks advert with the women in multiple windows I've seen before (but can't remember where).
 
Not that we actively encourage people to tell the world who they have ignored,
but as a general "heads up"
double click the person's profile image and from the pop up

View attachment 31173
That looks ever so familiar........:D
 
It doesn't. I still insist that all images transfer meaning, whether you like it or not, but there's no rules that says all images should STRIVE for DEEPER meaning. Understanding how images communicate however, helps you be more creative, and helps you create images that can transfer more complex meanings.

Clearly.. you, and others in this thread, have no interest in engaging with any of that. That's fine. You don't need to if you don't want. Creativity doesn't play a big role in what you do, so it may be a bit of a waste of your time. Your work has purely commercial application, so why would you sit around reading Victor Burgin or Derrida? Will it help your school photography? No. Will it help your wedding photography? No. Will it help your commercial photography? Well... possibly.. actually... but you're doing OK without it so it seems.


I've said similar things before though, and usually I get an interesting response.. and not a favourable one. People who have no wish to engage in the activity that promotes, enhances and teaches creativity, yet still get insulted if you suggest there's little creativity in what they do. They want to eat their cake and also have it. They like the THOUGHT if being considered creative, but have no interest in doing the work that will make them creative.

That's the problem: A confusion about what creativity even is. Therefore I'll now get a load of flack because I said Daryl's work is not creative. When in reality... why should it be? Why should he care whether it is regarded as creative? He's clearly good at what he does, as he earns a living at it - which is more than most in here do... yet despite his success, he'll still take offence at being considered less creative than some.

Most photographers want to be creative, because we all acknowledge it's a creative endeavour, yet dismiss anything that promotes creativity as cobblers.


It's a weird world.


Which brings us back the full circle in many ways - Daryls original question in this thread, what creative really is and why do many photographers claim in their blurb to be creative...are they, if they asked themselves honestly?
 
Which brings us back the full circle in many ways - Daryls original question in this thread, what creative really is and why do many photographers claim in their blurb to be creative...are they, if they asked themselves honestly?
Indeed, generally it has been a decent discussion. Some of Pookeys posts have made me think about what i`m doing and has given me some ideas for some of my landscape stuff. I have never looked at Steves stuff before, his work has given me some ideas as well.

So apart from the usual silliness, it has been a good thread for me to have read.
 
None of the following is FACT, but it is pretty widely accepted, and in fact a discussion that comes up time and time again in the educational forums (real forum.. not internet) hosted by The Association of Photographers.. who are deeply concerned about the following subject, and it's implications for the creative photographic industry in general. The big issue is does the general public's perception of photography in the post-digital era adversely affect the industry itself, and is it causing a problem with photographic education in general.


Which brings us back the full circle in many ways - Daryls original question in this thread, what creative really is and why do many photographers claim in their blurb to be creative...are they, if they asked themselves honestly?


Exactly. However, I've not yet met a photographer who would not be insulted if you suggested their work was not creative in nature, no matter what their attitudes and views on creativity were. It seems a universal desire for photographers: Being creative. Clearly though, some photographers seem to have little use for creativity in their work, and some even actively speak out against the accepted methods of creative practice as being psuedo-intellect and nonsense, but still seek to carve out their own meaning of what creativity is... find ways to BE creative, even if they have no clear idea of what that means. There's clearly a need for photographers to feel, and be regarded as creative, but on THEIR terms. Such a premise seems to suggest that there is no such thing as creativity, and clearly you can make it mean whatever you want it to mean. This makes no sense, as in any other academic practice, there's scholarly activity, research, debate and eventually some consensus is arrived at, but with amateur photography, no one is prepared to accept that. It's very accessibility and ease by which you can create visually impressive things reinforces a belief that you ARE creative... even if you've no clear idea what that means.

I worked for Venture for a few years.. 4 or 5 if I recall. Around 8 months of that time I was shooting. I realised quite quickly that social portraiture involves little creativity as I understand it. The client's would come in, and have an idea of what they wanted based on what the studio had already shot... they have an expectation of what they will receive. There was no scope for me to experiment to any great degree, or try new things... to innovate, as there's always the risk that the client would not like it. Despite this, some of the images shot would be a little experimental in nature, and they've be part of the preview show they'd see when they came to view their images. Almost without fail, the experimental images were not chosen to be purchased, as the client wasn't able to be sure that was "acceptable" or whether other family members, neighbours, or friends would also like it. What they wanted to buy was a sure-fire, tested product that was guaranteed to be a hit with their own peers. With this in mind... when I started working with Venture in a more managerial role, and was more involved with product development, we started putting more experimental imagery not in client shows, but instead on promotional material, posters, exhibition stands in supermarkets.. the usual stuff... and only THEN did clients express an interest... but still overwhelmingly, they wanted what the brand was famous for. This demonstrates one thing very clearly - the average client wanted what their friends and neighbours had, or what they knew others in their social circles wanted, and while they WANTED something original, they still wanted something that was instantly recognisable and widely accepted. It took time to get a new idea into circulation and accepted as also desired by others. You can't just put something radically different in a client's set of images that is very different from what they expected to get from you, and expect them to buy it, as the majority will not. They knew what they wanted before they even came... and that would be what you're already doing. Only when you're a world brand, with massive marketing clout can you launch a truly innovative product in this arena, as the client needs the re-assurance that they're buying something that will be equally desired by others - no one wants to invest in something that no one else wants, even they really want it themselves, as part of the appeal of the product is that it will trigger desire in, and be coveted by their peers. Anyone in advertising will confirm this. Most people buy non-utile products like this to impress others as much as they do themselves.

So... this is why, if you choose 50 social photography websites at random, there will be a great deal of similarity between them.. and only a handful will be doing something different. You're doing it to make money, and doing what the client wants is clearly the best way to get that money from them.

Carry that mindset into amateur photography then. You begin this hobby because you are impressed with some images you've seen on Flickr, and you like cameras. What do you do? Well.. you start shooting things similar to what you've seen... what initially impressed you, and you learn the technical stuff that enables you to do that. Then, as is natural, you seek acceptance and approval for your work by putting what YOU make on Flickr (other platforms are available :)) and measure how successful you are by how many "likes" it gets. The issue here is that as the vast majority of viewers will go straight for the eye candy, as Flickr is a fairly casual thing (most are not professional photographers)... you're presented with thousands.. if not millions of images, and the ones that stand out at a GLANCE are the ones that are eye candy... highly visual stuff that relies on process and processing... technique and drama. So the newbie photographer quickly learns to accept that what is good, is what is instantly gratifying without thought, contemplation or meaning... that photography's purpose is to merely create images that punch you in the face with drama and razzmatazz! If you do that, you get likes... and likes equal proof that you're good. Then, at some point, you'll think.. I'm good at this stuff... I'll try and be a "proper" photographer... yeah... I like all those images with star trails and light painting and stuff... My stuff is as good, if not better than what I've seen... and you then take it out of the Flickrverse and start showing professional photographers, or maybe go to a portfolio review or two, or apply for a Uni course.. or go for an assisting job with an architectural photographer.. whatever. That's when the disconnect happens, because they'll just say... OK.. you have skills.. sure... but this is exactly like millions of other images on Flickr.. you've just done what they've done... so how is this creative? Or if you shoot fashion, they may say.. "sure... this has skills... but why have you shot stuff that is so hideously out of date.. none of this is what the industry wants". Maybe you have a portfolio of "documentary" photography, but they say "Where's the story.. why are these just shots of people in the street with no connection to anything.. what is this a documentary of.. what's it about?". Then you get irritated because you're of a mindset that then thinks... "Why does everything have to have meaning... why are they telling me I need to research and read.. I'm a photographer!"

Well... the reason is... that images in a professional context have to have purpose... they need to DO something, or they're of no worth. If it's weddings, social portraiture etc. then it's pretty straightforward... they have to please the client, make them look good and be something they can hang on the wall and have everyone who sees it INSTANTLY like it without thought or contemplation. They don't have to be that creative... indeed they shouldn't be TOO creative. Baby in a basket? Not really creative, as it's a well used trope that people want... been done to death, but still, people love that stuff.. so you do it. However... editorial portraiture? Hmmm... what's the purpose of THAT then? Fashion? Advertising? Is advertising just making a product look good? Just skills? No... it's as much about psychology and culture as anything else. Why would anyone invest in YOU as a photographer and give you creative control of a million dollar campaign for a product if you clearly have nothing to demonstrate that you understand culture and what drives consumerism? Documentary... why would anyone commission you to document a long term urban renewal operation if you can't demonstrate that you can produce a set of images that deeply enquire about people's lives, stories, trials and challenges, or produce images that lead the viewer to understanding of a subject?

That's the disconnect, and why so many amateurs feel they've no connection with work with "meaning".

The second issue is that they say, "Well.. I'm not a professional... I just love doing what I do". Fine... more power to you. Nothing wrong with that, but then when anyone dares to suggest that what they're actually doing is just the same as millions of other things already out there, and therefore not really creative, they get defensive, because they feel they make good photographs (which many do) and as photography is a creative endeavour (remember... almost all photographers feel this is the case) then saying that my work is not creative, is equivalent to saying it's not GOOD. That's when the divide happens, and you get these two warring factions - the "All art if arty farty b******s" camp, and the "Art is about creativity, having meaning and purpose to the work" camp.

The thing is though... I, and many like me, don't think work that is less creative is any less GOOD. I love looking at some of the fabulous landscapes on this forum. There's work in here that makes Joe Cornish's work look utterly CRAP! It's just not particularly creative or innovative... but it doesn't NEED to be, because it was created JUST to look fabulous. Yet... the photographers who create it, who by their own admission, will admit to shooting it just because it looked wonderful... simple as that.. will get upset if you think it's not original, innovative or "creative".

I still maintain that craft skills, and creativity are not necessarily the same thing. Craft is PART of the creative process, but in my opinion (also shared by many others) is that creativity is a mental process, and relies on research as much as it does actually making things with your hands. The extent of that may well vary.. even if it's just researching what is current in your chosen area, and reacting to it... but so many amateur photographers are of the opinion of "Why do I need to do that... I never look at other stuff, or read, or go to galleries". Well.. then how are you moving your work forward and stopping yourself from taking the same old stuff over and over again? It's pretty standard advice given in portfolio reviews that 50% of your content (wherever it may be) should change every 6 months. What would be the point of that if you just replace it with stuff that's essentially the same as the old stuff? There really is an expectation that work evolves, pushes forward, develops and changes as you examine your chosen subject. Photography is the medium used to explore a subject.. not a means to and end itself. As such, you should be expert in your subject. Only then can you produce meaningful and relevant work ABOUT that subject.


Just pouring thoughts onto a page.

[edit]

If you want to be creative, as it's understood in the wider creative spheres of industry and academia.. then you need to find ways to innovate, and move the genre you're in forward. Thats' why theDeutsche Borse Prize is so coveted, and worth 10 grand! It's an award for the work that has contributed to eth developent of the medium... not work that's "good" or has a million likes on Flickr.

If you just wanna make cool stuff... just get on with it and stop being upset if anyone thinks it's less creative... people will still like it.
 
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I've made nut and bolt animals.

I'm quite reasonable at making things out of metal (Welder day to day) but can't draw, paint, sculpt, play a musical instrument or anything that I'd class as creative other than photography.
 
I'm still not convinced that this idea that creative people will be creative in everything else they do is even valid.
 
Reason I posted this in the first place is because the majority of folk who i know are Creative, do many things and lean towards the arts. or music and more. etc...

None of the following is FACT, but it is pretty widely accepted,
That post was brilliant!

David, now if you posted that in the first place many on here would have thought differently than the previous posts. Sometimes the way things are typed out come over a tad omnipotent & elitist .

That post was much more like it.

Scored some Brownie points with that one.
 
It takes time sometimes, to establish what the debate is about... to see what the arguments and counter arguments are, and form a response. That post was my summative response to the past couple days I suppose.

I still require convincing that creative people are creative with everything they do though. :)

I'm glad you appreciate the points I'm making... not because it's about scoring points, but because I feel that the subject polarises opinions so completely that it turns into a "them and us" situation, and that's a shame. We shoudl be able to look critically at ourselves as photographers without the insecurity about whether the subject is "for" or "against" me.

I have respect for ANYONE who pays their bills with a camera, whether I feel the work is creative or not. It's not easy.
 
...I have respect for ANYONE who pays their bills with a camera, whether I feel the work is creative or not. It's not easy.
I've been studying and admiring Jane Bown's work lately, she was an amazing 'portrait artist'.

However; not a fantastic photographer, and not what I'd describe as 'creative', that doesn't detract from her immense talent. She had an amazing 'feel' for people and a great understanding of the other raw ingredient, light.
 
"I'm not a sculptor," Bailey says. "I'm an image-maker. Did you know I've got an Emmy?" For what? "For a 30-second f*****g commercial for cancer! It was anti-smoking and had this girl's face melting from all the tar she was smoking. A woman rang me and said, 'Are you David Bailey, the director?' And I said, 'That's debatable, love.' She said, 'You're the first non-American to win an Emmy for a commercial.' And I said, 'Does the manicurist get one too?' She got furious. I love Americans, but I'd like them more if they knew when someone's taking the p***." He stubs out his cigarette. "But the point is I just make images – the medium is secondary."

I quite like Rankin, although I know many don't. There's a control of light, harsh processing and at times a touch of creativity. I liked his life masks, as part of his Alive in the face of death exhibition
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rankin-masks-headline.jpg
 
"I'm not a sculptor," Bailey says. "I'm an image-maker. Did you know I've got an Emmy?" For what? "For a 30-second f*****g commercial for cancer! It was anti-smoking and had this girl's face melting from all the tar she was smoking. A woman rang me and said, 'Are you David Bailey, the director?' And I said, 'That's debatable, love.' She said, 'You're the first non-American to win an Emmy for a commercial.' And I said, 'Does the manicurist get one too?' She got furious. I love Americans, but I'd like them more if they knew when someone's taking the p***." He stubs out his cigarette. "But the point is I just make images – the medium is secondary."

I quite like Rankin, although I know many don't. There's a control of light, harsh processing and at times a touch of creativity. I liked his life masks, as part of his Alive in the face of death exhibition
Here's a thing...
Rankin is a creative.
Bailey is a better photographer
All IMO obviously. But I'm guessing it's the 'popular' opinion too.

I suppose some of that is in the BSM tradition though too, Bailey never takes himself seriously, is self effacing and flippant. Rankin appears to suck up to the art establishment, takes himself very seriously, almost to the point of pompous.
 
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For the record... I prefer Bailey too. He's not the philistine he makes himself out to be though. Clever man. Rankin takes himself far too seriously, agreed. Take art seriously by all means... I do.. deadly seriously.... but never take yourself seriously. I'm certain it's an act though... like many who achieves celebrity status... you play to the expectations of you. Bailey is too much the east end boy for that I think. Him, Donovan, and Duffy... right place, right time, and canny enough to exploit it. Natural eye for the subject though, and he understands people. He may play down his photographic skill, but he's an avid scholar of people, and it shows in his work. I'd say Bailey is every bit the creative, he seems to be not particularly interested in it though... he flies by the seat of his pants... and it works for him. Not something us mere mortals can really do and get away with though. He's just gifted.
 
I've been studying and admiring Jane Bown's work lately, she was an amazing 'portrait artist'.

However; not a fantastic photographer, and not what I'd describe as 'creative', that doesn't detract from her immense talent. She had an amazing 'feel' for people and a great understanding of the other raw ingredient, light.

Ditto, with the same thoughts too, though until this thread I was struggling to articulate them.

As for your 'summary' post David, probably one of the most interesting 'pouring of thoughts' I have read around here for a long time and makes so much sense. [careful your head doesn't get too big for that door frame ;) ]
 
[careful your head doesn't get too big for that door frame ;) ]

Despite what people think of me, I'm immune to conceit. I gave up worrying about what people think of me around 20 years ago I reckon. :) Best way to be.... that way nothing touches you... neither praise, nor insult. Coast through life not giving a damn what others think of you.... the only way. You can spend more time on what makes you happy then... and on those you care about.
 
"One day I missed a train from Pendlebury - (a place) I had ignored for seven years — and as I left the station I saw the Acme Spinning Company's mill ... The huge black framework of rows of yellow-lit windows standing up against the sad, damp charged afternoon sky. The mill was turning out... I watched this scene — which I'd looked at many times without seeing — with rapture..."

A quote from a man born in Stretford and then raised in Rusholme and Pendlebury. Not a windmill or cottage in sight, but he saw something that led to a large number of works of art, because it was him that was creative and not the surroundings.

quick edit for anyone not familiar with Manchester: Stretford/Rusholme/Pendlebury are not full of rolling hills and streams :)

I've heard they are full of dark satanic mills....
 
It's grim oop north!
 
If two photographers point their same cameras at the same thing, at the same time, then yes, they will get the same shot. Which is why creativity is rarely a technical pursuit and why so much amateur (and pro for that matter) work is pap.


It's worth remembering that talented and creative processing of similar shots can produce striking differences. Creativity doesn't end with capture.
 

It's worth remembering that talented and creative processing of similar shots can produce striking differences. Creativity doesn't end with capture.

Is that creativity or craft skill though? Moving sliders in Lightroom is not creativity though is it? I'd say not.
 
Is that creativity or craft skill though? Moving sliders in Lightroom is not creativity though is it? I'd say not.

Possibly another point of debate - whilst I agree twiddling a few lightroom sliders is simply a learned skill, are the composite images people like Marcus produce just craft skill, or does having a vision of the image you want to create and succeeding push that into something more 'creative' than just regular post processing?
 
Possibly another point of debate - whilst I agree twiddling a few lightroom sliders is simply a learned skill, are the composite images people like Marcus produce just craft skill, or does having a vision of the image you want to create and succeeding push that into something more 'creative' than just regular post processing?


Yes, they are, which is why I stipulated LR "global" processing. However.... if that image in the article I posted (see Sam's quote from me in his post) had been massively altered and composited... no comparison would have been made with another image taken at the same time anyway... thus making the point moot.
 
Yes, they are, which is why I stipulated LR "global" processing. However.... if that image in the article I posted (see Sam's quote from me in his post) had been massively altered and composited... no comparison would have been made with another image taken at the same time anyway... thus making the point moot.


however.... there's the great Landscape Awards debacle of 2012 to consider here :)


B*****s.. I quoted myself... sorry.. LOL
 
In my opinion (and no more than that!) processing allows me to augment my creativity. It's an integral part of my creative and visionary processes, but not necessarily arty, whatever that may mean. For example, I've scanned colour film and used the red channel to draw out strong detail in a looming mountain all but lost through the mist in the colours of the original. Software enabled me to realise my creative vision for the image. I discovered a stronger image through processing.
 
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In my opinion (and no more than that!) processing allows me to augment my creativity. It's an integral part of my creative and visionary processes, but not necessarily arty, whatever that may mean. For example, I've scanned colour film and used the red channel to draw out strong detail in a looming mountain all but lost through the mist in the colours of the original. Software enabled me to realise my creative vision for the image. I discovered a stronger image through processing.


Isn't that the same as changing a picture preset on a camera, or using a plug-in in Photoshop though? Just making an adjustment to the red channel... is that creative? I'm not saying it wasn't important or necessary... but is it creative?


I admit that processing can be an important part of realising the image as you saw it in your mind, but unless you're changing the image radically, it will not add creativity to an image made without any creativity. Surely the image itself, it's context, and what the image(s) are for is where the creativity is. All else is craft skill. Processing is just the aesthetic polish you give it to make it look like it did in your mind... what you saw in your mind was the creative part. It can't add creativity surely. I think you may be putting the importance in the wrong place... surely your pre-visualisation of the scene, and the need to make it look like you saw it is the creative process... not the moving of the slider, or the button pushing on the computer. They're just learned skills and what you did to realise the creative process... not the creative process itself.
 
Surely the mind is where the creativity sits.

Pushing a camera button is no different from moving a slider or pressing a keyboard key?

The camera and computer are simply technical objects.
 
In my opinion (and no more than that!) processing allows me to augment my creativity. It's an integral part of my creative and visionary processes, but not necessarily arty, whatever that may mean. For example, I've scanned colour film and used the red channel to draw out strong detail in a looming mountain all but lost through the mist in the colours of the original. Software enabled me to realise my creative vision for the image. I discovered a stronger image through processing.
You read this thread, and never grasped the difference between the technical and creative process?

Or did you just skip through to the end and think talking about PP would add something?
 
I've grasped something about technical skills and creativity in photography, yes.

And I brought up processing originally to point out that 2 very similar shots can end up visually quite different. (Potential can be lost through poor editing skills.) The computer is an instrument we can be creative with to fully realise our vision rather than simply fiddling about with sliders and so on. But as I say, that's just my opinion. There are times in the field when my vision and inspiration have been partly shaped by creative possibilities in software.
 
In all fairness... it's a very long thread.. LOL


I've grasped something about technical skills and creativity in photography, yes.

And I brought up processing originally to point out that 2 very similar shots can end up visually quite different. (Potential can be lost through poor editing skills.) The computer is an instrument we can be creative with to fully realise our vision rather than simply fiddling about with sliders and so on. But as I say, that's just my opinion. There are times in the field when my vision and inspiration have been partly shaped by creative possibilities in software.


If both shots were just unconsidered snaps though... they'll both still be so despite one being processed better. One may ave the visual "wow" the other hasn't.... but strip that back, and if the original shot is crap... they'll both still be crap.
 
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Surely the mind is where the creativity sits.

Pushing a camera button is no different from moving a slider or pressing a keyboard key?

The camera and computer are simply technical objects.
Or moving the paintbrush, or hitting the chisel with a mallet, etc, etc,...

I agree that it is the mind where the creativity sits. I would also suggest that you can be creative without having the skills. You have the vision but your skills have not reached the point where you can accomplish the outcome. Might make it difficult to convince others that you are creative perhaps.
 
I read most of the thread. Took me quite a while this morning! Apart from what appears to be a clash of personalities, or something like that, it's quite interesting. Suits a Sunday morning.

Yes, crap shots are crap, even when they're jazzed-up. It's amazing though what makes it through, don't you think, David. We may say that's crap, but someone bites back saying how wonderful it is pointing out what we can't see. None of us have a monopoly on what a rubbish shot really is, or so it seems. But I know what you're saying for some images. True enough.

The gift of 'seeing' and then using tools to make it real is a wonderful experience. It's hard to be original though! But as someone said before: "This has been done many times -- but not by me!" There's lots of pleasure in it and the opinions of others shouldn't dampen our enthusiasm.
:)
 
Surely the mind is where the creativity sits.
Pushing a camera button is no different from moving a slider or pressing a keyboard key?
The camera and computer are simply technical objects.

Yes and Noooooo!!

So you have a great idea, but you need the know how to use tools to make this Great idea a reality!

Other wise it just stays a creative great idea and you have to get other people to make into something real?
 
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Yes and Noooooo!!

So you have a great idea, but you need the know how to use tools to make this Great idea a reality!

Other wise it just stays a creative great idea and you have to get other people to make into something real?
Yes I completely agree. You HAVE to know how the technical side works. I should have quoted David's post above mine that seemed to suggest PP was nowhere near as important as taking the shot. I see them as being equally important.

I would equally argue that a brilliantly creative shot badly processed will be an average shot
 
So you have a great idea, but you need the know how to use tools to make this Great idea a reality!

Depends on the idea.

I'm a great believer in the notion that a lack of technical skill can be an aid to the creative process.

But each to their own.:)
 
Yes, crap shots are crap, even when they're jazzed-up. It's amazing though what makes it through, don't you think, David. We may say that's crap, but someone bites back saying how wonderful it is pointing out what we can't see. None of us have a monopoly on what a rubbish shot really is, or so it seems. But I know what you're saying for some images. True enough.

No.. but hypothetically... let's assume we have two identical images widely accepted to be crap... by whatever means you chose to establish that. You process one and pull all the stops out... and you leave the other unmolested. One will have more instant appeal than the other... but they're both still crap.

I wasn't trying to establish what constitutes crap or not :)


The gift of 'seeing' and then using tools to make it real is a wonderful experience. It's hard to be original though! But as someone said before: "This has been done many times -- but not by me!" There's lots of pleasure in it and the opinions of others shouldn't dampen our enthusiasm.
:)

Yes there is... but seeing something, copying it and saying "I did that" can be immensely satisfying... but it's not creative.. YOU can't say "look how creative I am", because YOU didn't actually create it... you copied what someone else created. I'm not saying it isn't GOOD... but it's not creative. Not unless you recreating a style or type of image, and that's the idea... but even then, the creativity will be limited, because you didn't conceive of the idea, and creativity is NOT craft skill alone. Craft skills are what you use to realise your creativity. You can't have one without the other usually, but having craft skills alone does not mean your work will be any more creative as a result.

I could be a fabulously talented sculptor, and decide to make a faithful recreation of statue. My skill with chisel and mallet may be undeniable, but if I'm copying, I'm not creative... I'm skilful.
 
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...The gift of 'seeing' and then using tools to make it real is a wonderful experience. It's hard to be original though! But as someone said before: "This has been done many times -- but not by me!" There's lots of pleasure in it and the opinions of others shouldn't dampen our enthusiasm.
:)
Not trying to dampen your 'enthusiasm' or belittle the skill in the process, but that's not creativity. It may be great fun, it might be technically challenging, but it's not 'creative'

Speaking as someone who is happily recreating my own ideas and the ideas of others for financial gain and happy customers.

There's nothing wrong with being in a covers band, some of them are highly talented and successful, but no matter how well you recreate 'Yesterday' or 'The great gig in the sky', it's not your creation. You'll still get applause, you might even get paid, you might think you deserve brownie points for working out exactly the effects pedals for a truly authentic sound but it's not creativity.
 
Depends on the idea.

I'm a great believer in the notion that a lack of technical skill can be an aid to the creative process.

But each to their own.:)

I'm a believer that the technical aspects should be sufficiently familiar that they stop being an intrusive consideration.

As a guitar player I don't want to be thinking about the chord shapes or scales in a piece of music: I just want to be able to play the music and hear the changes. Playing this morning, the lass on keyboards was changing time signatures, rhythm patterns, adding pauses or emphasis, and if I'd been wondering whether to play in 3:4 or 6:8 I'd have got lost.
 
Music makes an interesting comparison. Whilst all the notes are the same, the inflection, the way they are applied, makes all the difference. I know people who can pick out the conductor, soloist, or even orchestra from the way the piece of music is played.
 
Music makes an interesting comparison. Whilst all the notes are the same, the inflection, the way they are applied, makes all the difference. I know people who can pick out the conductor, soloist, or even orchestra from the way the piece of music is played.

Which makes me wonder whether one can photograph the same thing as myriad others, and yet produce a unique image? I've played intentional covers, where one attempts to sound like the original, but I'd far rather make someone else's song my 'own' and re-interpret.
 
I'm a believer that the technical aspects should be sufficiently familiar that they stop being an intrusive consideration.

I believe in that too. The two approaches aren't mutually exclusive.

But as a guitar player I might know where my fingers need to go, but I couldn't tell you what notes I'm playing or what key I'm in. :D
 
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