How do you transfer copyright?

I've never assigned copyright and I'd be very interested in the potential marketability of an image f I received such an offer.

Usually, usage rights are confused with copyright.
 
awp said:
from whom - to who?
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without trying to be cocky... from copyright owner to none copyright owner.... sorry i do tend to see things in black and white :)

if someone owns the copyright to a load of pictures and they want someone else to ahve that copyright.. what would be involved?
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
I've never assigned copyright and I'd be very interested in the potential marketability of an image f I received such an offer.

Usually, usage rights are confused with copyright.
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Nope.. I know the difference.. my question is re actual copyright ownership
 
KIPAX said:
Nope.. I know the difference.. my question is re actual copyright ownership
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Well in that case actual copyright ownership is yours, buyer wants usage of the image, no need to sell copyright,
assign buyer 12 month all use, all media, worldwide license and either temper that with a disclosure clause allowing
you to see how the image is being used or form do a joint venture thing.

Tricky without knowing the full details but I'm always against selling copyright.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Well in that case actual copyright ownership is yours, buyer wants usage of the image, no need to sell copyright, .
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no no no no no!!!!! :) big smile :)

I know who owns actual copyright :)

sorry but no one is buying or selling and no one wants usage.. your making a simple thing into something its not.. Your not even opening your mind to the possibility that there may be a situation where person A wants person B to own the copyright to person A's pictures..

The question really is as simple as its set out in the OP :)
 
It can be as simple as a verbal agreement, however this would be difficult to prove should it go to court, so a document detailing names, dates and the exact act to be fulfilled (perhaps an invoice.. billed at £0.01?) would prove to be more worthwhile!
 
purpleclouds said:
It can be as simple as a verbal agreement, however this would be difficult to prove should it go to court, so a document detailing names, dates and the exact act to be fulfilled (perhaps an invoice.. billed at £0.01?) would prove to be more worthwhile!
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the latter sounds better.. would it stand up in court that your then the legal owner of the copyright? hmmm mebbe it would.. is it really that simple?
 
KIPAX said:
the latter sounds better.. would it stand up in court that your then the legal owner of the copyright? hmmm mebbe it would.. is it really that simple?
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I should imagine so, just make sure the images to be 'sold' were listed! Copyright is an intellectual property, it's not like owning a car which needs to be registered with the DVLA so I don't think anything official needs to be done per se. So long as both sides are happy with the medium in which it is conducted (written or verbal).

If person B has their images stolen, after having them verbally 'sold' from person A, then it would be up to person A to back this up should person C try to defend it in court.

An invoice/contract stating the changing of ownership should cut out the need for person A altogether :)
 
purpleclouds said:
I should imagine so, just make sure the images to be 'sold' were listed!
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Just humor me for a moment...I have 94 thousand pictures on my website.. lets say I wanted you to have them all.. I couldnt list 94 thousand pics :(

Off the top of my head and truly this isnt what its about.. But simmilar to the above.. if you left 94 thouand pics in your will.. you couldnt list them either...

BTW Your not getting them and neither is anyone else :)
 
KIPAX said:
would it stand up in court that your then the legal owner of the copyright?
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Unless you've assigned, sold and/or transferred copyright to someone else in a legally notarised document (contract)
you are the legal copyright holder by default. Unless the DEB *****s us all, that's the law.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Unless you've assigned, sold and/or transferred copyright to someone else in a legally notarised document (contract)
you are the legal copyright holder by default. Unless the DEB *****s us all, that's the law.
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I know!!! thats why i am asking how you get that copyright to someone else and then that is legally theres and stands up in court as theres..
 
KIPAX said:
Just humor me for a moment...I have 94 thousand pictures on my website.. lets say I wanted you to have them all.. I couldnt list 94 thousand pics :(

Off the top of my head and truly this isnt what its about.. But simmilar to the above.. if you left 94 thouand pics in your will.. you couldnt list them either...

BTW Your not getting them and neither is anyone else :)
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I know someone who sold their entire library (50 years, life's work) to a major library for a 6 figure sum.

Would have been worth funk all without the corresponding collection of release forms.

Some contracts I've been involved in produce 100,000+ images per annum and they can't be monetised beyond sales from the event, either.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
I know someone who sold their entire library (50 years, life's work) to a major library for a 6 figure sum.

Would have been worth funk all without the corresponding collection of release forms.

Some contracts I've been involved in produce 100,000+ images per annum and they can't be monetised beyond sales from the event, either.
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so you can transfer copyright of a collection/library of pictures without listing each one?
 
KIPAX said:
so you can transfer copyright of a collection/library of pictures without listing each one?
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Yes, say from date A to date B... I thought you were on about one or two :D You would just need to define the photos somehow, so whether that'd be all photographs of team X between date A and date B or something else.. that's what you'd need to figure out :)
 
I don't see any problem here. You can simply verbally transfer copyright to the other person. This would be OK as long as both parties are still around and the original copyright holder honours the agreement and never contests the copyright, in which case the transfer might not hold up in a contested case as it it would be the word of one person against another.

A better way would be to make out a simple document formally transferring copyright of the images to the other person. I don't see any need for money being involved. I'd say it should be signed and dated by both parties and it would hold up better if it was ever contested, if it was witnessed by an independent 3rd party signing and dating also.
 
purpleclouds said:
Yes, say from date A to date B... I thought you were on about one or two :D You would just need to define the photos somehow, so whether that'd be all photographs of team X between date A and date B or something else.. that's what you'd need to figure out :)
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Haa that would do it... and without going into too much detail its actually for copyright to come to me that I am looking at :)
 
CT said:
A better way would be to make out a simple document formally transferring copyright of the images to the other person. I don't see any need for money being involved. I'd say it should be signed and dated by both parties and it would hold up better if it was ever contested, if it was witnessed by an independent 3rd party signing and dating also.
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You see I thought it might be that simple... but then I thought... go ask, just in case :)
 
KIPAX said:
so you can transfer copyright of a collection/library of pictures without listing each one?
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You can offer to sell to a prospective buyer your collection.

The buyer - let's posit Getty - will assess the potential future value of those images and subtract any potential losses from legal fees.

At that point you will be asked for release forms, indemnities etc.

When you can't produce the releases, a serious buyer will walk away.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
If you have to ask ... :)
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I didnt really mean what are release forms in that sense... I meant if I dont need them now.. why would i need them to transfer the copryright to someone else? unless theres a) somehting about realease forms i dont get or b) there different release forms.. ie release of copyright or something?
 
KIPAX said:
I didnt really mean what are release forms in that sense... I meant if I dont need them now.. why would i need them to transfer the copryright to someone else? unless theres a) somehting about realease forms i dont get or b) there different release forms.. ie release of copyright or something?
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Answer ?

a) somehting [sic] about realease [sic] forms i [sic] dont [sic] get

b) there [sic] different release forms.. ie [sic] release of copyright or something?

Correct on both counts.

PM me and we'll take it to email.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Answer ?

a) somehting [sic] about realease [sic] forms i [sic] dont [sic] get

b) there [sic] different release forms.. ie [sic] release of copyright or something?

Correct on both counts.

PM me and we'll take it to email.
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Thanks but it kinda goes against the whole concept of a messageboard when someone else looks for a simmilar answer and its gone to pm...

off to look up sic?
 
In theory it's simple, in practise maybe less so. Basically the copyright holder should outline the transfer in writing, identifying each/all images (eg subject, place, date) and include 'a consideration' (eg nominal sum of money). Both parties to sign and have both signatures witnessed by someone of status such as a solicitor, should the deal ever be called to account.

That would be watertight but two things spring to mind. How do you identify thousands of images easily? With great difficulty I think. If it is someone's lifetime library, that could be identified simply as 'every picture they've ever taken' and that would work in theory, but unless each image is indelibly marked with the author's name, actually impossible to enforce. I guess thumbnail prints of everything would work, maybe printed 50 to a page of A4 and every page signed over by the copyright holder. That kind of thing.

The other thing is that images can quite easily have two or even multiple copyrights holders, and other people might also have rights in the images, either inherantly/automatically or by way of parallel commercial agreements.

For example, on the multiple copyright thing, anyone who has done Photoshop work on the images could claim rights to that aspect. On a fashion shoot, the model could have commercial rights and moral rights, the clothes designer, the make-up artist, or the hairdresser. On a location shoot, maybe the property owner would have a say, or the owner of that vintage car. Stuff shot pre-1988 probably belongs to the commissioner rather than the photographer anyway. And so it goes on.

If you want watertight, you would have to go through every image, identify it, identify all rights holders invloved, and make sure all their permissions were also in place. You could probably do it on a shoot by shoot/assignment basis, but it would have to be done.

On the other hand, while it might be extremely difficult to draw up a bulletproof document on something as potentially complex as this, there is probably an acceptable compromise. Presumably this collection is currently already being traded commercially by the copyright holder and you just want to continue in the same vein. That shouldn't be so difficult.

However, with a big collection created over time, I think it's unlikely that the author is actually the sole copyright/rights holder of everything and that, technically, they are therefore not in a position to transfer rights they don't own. You would have to go through the collection, make an assessment of the potentially risky areas, make a judgement call, cover things off as best you can, and hope that you've got it mostly right ;)
 
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