How do you visualise what editing to do to a shot?

Marcel

Marcel

Kim Jong Bod
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Marcel
Edit My Images
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I have always had a problem of visualistion, be it taking the shot, or envisaging what to do with it afterwards.

I'm looking at a shot in Lightroom....it's in focus...it looks OK.

The problem I face is this..I will then process it for tonal corrections, then send it to photoshop, maybe some levels, curves etc, with some cloning and healing.

I then have a mental block on what to do next. My skill in photoshop is good enough to know 'how' to do certain things, for example, replacing skies, adding gradients, colour corrections, cloning, healing, dodging, burning etc.

However, I have a problem where I just can't look at a photo and think "Yeah, that could do with this, this and this...maybe this on an adjustment layer, and if I change this and this, it'll look much better".

Which is why I don't really process many of my shots. It's quite a stumbling block for me because I also often don't see that 'potential' when Im actually out taking shots, so I assume I also pass up many shots.
 
I just done this one for englandshottest2

Before
ggedit.jpg


After
ggedit2.jpg


Cropped and swapped people around to make it more equal to the centre of the image (the building)
 
Ermm....."Quite think of something good to get you out of jail" She's clapping that they are married "Yeah, think that fooled them" :LOL:
 
This may sound silly Marcel but have you ever tried shooting in B&W only?

It's a fabulous way of learning how to look at a shot "differently" I once heard of a tog who said there was no such thing as bad weather, just B&W days. It teaches you to look for contrast and tonal variations rather than seeing in colour.

Once you have a few shots, try desaturating and then playing with the colours, red blue and green will all give you different effects.

It's a great way of looking at shape, contrast and texture and those are the things that lend themselves well to some manipulation.

I've dropped in a grad or two before now but I've stopped short of replacing skies. There are a few in my library that would certainly benefit from it though! :)

I do tend to experiment a fair bit with some of my portrait stuff. Just running some actions to see how cross processing would look or some split toning. There is always the revert button, it is my friend.

Sometimes less is more.
 
Oh well, something i had never done before. Now i know..........

..........

NEVER TO TRY AGAIN ARGH lmao
 
Are we having a Crisis of confidence here Marcel? I have seen enough of your shots to know that you don't lack an 'eye' for what will look good when you point your camera and press th ebutton [when the buttons working that is :whistle: ]. The tower from under the pier at blackpool, the bench shot, the guy drinking tea outside the shop, all pics of yours I can remember off the top of my head, which isnt bad for someone with nearly 4000 posts on a photography forum, you must be doing something right. I have to ask, beyond any exposure corrections, why do you feel shots need more anyway? If it looks right as it is, why worry about any further processing just because others are doing it?


If you really feel this is a problem, just play with the shots anyway, do anything, crop it in 20 different ways, add art filters, hdr it, anything, just play without worrying about the outcome, but to get a 'feel' for what you can do to push a picture. When out with the camera, actually hold it to your face and move slowly round, see things in the limited range of the viewfinder rather than the wdier view of your eyes.

But dont worry, I dont think you are doing too badly mate and whilst my own skills may make this less then the best endorsement, I am sure better togs than me would agree :hug:
 
Defiance said:
In pic #2, why is the left most bridesmaid holding a head ? :D
Click to expand...

send that to the the sun they will think its a ****ing ghost the amount of bull**** pictures they have had claiming ghosts in them
 
I actually do very little post processing on my shots. I shoot RAW but as often as not make no adjustment in RAW, but it does let me output a 16 bit TIFF. It's then just usually level adjustments and making sure the colour balance looks right. I suppose I'm just looking for a punchy shot - difficult to explain beyond that. I certainly wouldn't do any of the heavy duty manipulation I get asked to do on other peoples images- I wouldn't dream of changing a sky Bodders.

I think you're probably fretting too much mate. What I do think is that a lot of the mono conversions we see would be better if people had made mono prints in the darkroom and struggled to get that full range of tones, with detail in the shadows and the highlights under control.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'll reply in more detail tomorrow (must get to bed! ;))
I meant replacing a sky as an example...OK it was probably the wrong one...lol

What I mean is I think that PP is a very important part of the photography process for many people (OK for some people, little is more, so to speak).

When Im processing a shot, first I get the tonal corrections out of the way, then levels, then curves etc. Beyond that I'm stumped for ideas.

Take Arkadys shots here for example.
He did let me know what processing he used, and it was a bit of duotining with a couple of adjustment layers etc, with various blending modes etc.

What I have a problem with is, looking at a picture and thinking "hmmm yeah, that would look nice like this"

Is it something that comes with just 'playing around' in photoshop so much that you tend to just remember it all?
 
All I can say, Bod is that the longer you play with digital processing the more you realise all roads lead to Rome - there's always loads of ways to get the same result. I've no idea how Rob achieved that great effect, but I just converted one of the shots to black and white, then used a very low opacity fill on the shot.The colour was somewhere near to khaki, then adjust the contrast and RGB sliders in tiny increments until you match the colour exactly I managed to duplicate Rob's shot exactly.

Have a play - I bet you can do it.
 
Oh yeah I can do it (especially since he told me). It's visualising that end result when looking at the unprocessed version. Does that make sense? (It does in my head!) :D
 
i share your pain Dave, i cant see the shot all the time either. Pete is an expert at the art of getting the look..iyswim
 
Marcel said:
T
Is it something that comes with just 'playing around' in photoshop so much that you tend to just remember it all?
Click to expand...

YES!! I think for most people that is indeed the case. Some people do naturally have an eye for this sort of thing, but going off the people I have spoke to, it really is a learning curve.

OK, why not set yourself a 'challenge' if you like - lets say that for the next week, you are going to go through your back catalogue and choose some shots to duotone or tritone - look through your stuff and try to imagine what might look good in the more muted limited colour range - my first couple of duotones started with sepia type colours, because its familiar, easier to imagine what the end result might look like, then you can branch out into different colour sets - try them out, see what works and what doesn't.

week after try a different technique on another selection of shots.

the great thing about digital is you can have as many different copies of a picture as you want, all processed in totally different ways to compare and contrast and still have the original to hand to go back to and it hasnt cost you an extra penny (y)
 
I used to have the same problem !!!

Now though, I tend to shoot with a final image in mind - though I still have a 'play' during the boring moments

In the early days I'd learn/find something new, then forget all about it as something to try - so I kept lists of processing styles, and printed a photo and stuck the photo type on my wall as a memory jogger - pinned to the 'How did I do that'

Most styles are like fashion, they come & go, so I'm currently back to doing most of the 'effect' at the taking stage, and then running a couple of Actions I've put together - sometimes they work and a WOW jumps out, mostly they make me think it's best to leave pretty much alone

I do like playing with HDR though (soz Tone Mapping, Pete!)

So I'd suggest covering your wall with ideas/styles, and then go shoot with one in mind and see if it works

(y)

DD
 
Techno-Geek said:
Bod? Rob?

Huh? :thinking:
Click to expand...

bod= marcel
rob=arkady

marcel, are you saying you dont know which process to use to suit the shot? or dont know where to start on doing it?
 
LL, I think that's what I was getting at. I find it hard to look at a 'scene' or a raw file and think "Hmm, that might benefit from this treatment, or that treatment, or maybe if I do this this and this"....

I just look at a shot and think "Levels, Curves...errrrrr, what else?"
 
Marcel said:
LL, I think that's what I was getting at. I find it hard to look at a 'scene' or a raw file and think "Hmm, that might benefit from this treatment, or that treatment, or maybe if I do this this and this"....

I just look at a shot and think "Levels, Curves...errrrrr, what else?"
Click to expand...

Which is why I am suggesting an 'action plan' - try a technique on a range of shots [just chose a random 10 shots covering all sorts of subjects] and see what does and doesn't work - just seeing a style on a range of images will automatically start building those 'visualisation' pathways in the brain. I also like DDs idea of printing any that do work, with a note as to how you achieved it, as an 'aide memoire', or in your case, a visual reminder of why that architectural shot look good in a blue tone, but lousy in a pink one ;) (y)
 
If you go hunting for some free actions Marcel, load them up and just have a go at running them on various pics and see how they look. That way you are at least standardising the treatment you give them. I think that the bolder the subject, the boder the treatment they can stand. Urban to fetish, piercings and body art have always taken more in the way of unusual treatments like cross processing.

Subjects with bold colours will lend themselves to playing with those bold colours. More muted subjects to more soft treatments.

Go out and shoot some really rough urban decay shots and go to town on them!

That is something still on my list of "to do's"
 
Most of my shots get a crop, levels and sharpen, thats it (perhaps thats why i'm no good :shrug:)

If there is a particular effect i am trying to achieve then i shoot with that in mind, rather than trying to justify the shot at the PP'ing stage (ie i'll shoot RAW, but have a B&W jpeg save alongside it for reference, then in PP i will B&W / Sepia the shot)

I think the main problem these days is that you can very easily get lost in the whole PP'ing thing, and think that every shot has to be PP'd. I find that this distracts from the whole photography process for me as i just enjoy being out shooting, and not being sat in front of the computer trying to 'invent' the image.

In other words " How Much Is Too Much?"
 
I try to make sure everything is ok before i click the shutter, Like my white-levels and ISO
 
I guess it's not going to help but I just "feel" it. Sometimes I take a shot and can clearly see how it will look after processing, at other times I just see the result after looking at a shot. I guess it's the creative spark in action and the technical aspect is knowing which tools to use to turn the pixels into what you imagined.
 
I quite often just wander down a road of extremes when i'm post processing to see if anything takes my fancy. I basically try a few extreme curves or effects etc.
It usually ends up looking ridiculous but it gives me ideas on what parts of it will look good in a certain way sometimes.

You could try something like the virtual photographer plugin (its free)
http://www.optikvervelabs.com/

It has a number of colour and b&w effects in it which you can just flick through and look at the preview window to see if anything looks pleasing. Each one can be manually adjusted from there in too.
 
Chillimonster said:
Most of my shots get a crop, levels and sharpen, thats it (perhaps thats why i'm no good :shrug:)

I think the main problem these days is that you can very easily get lost in the whole PP'ing thing, and think that every shot has to be PP'd. I find that this distracts from the whole photography process for me as i just enjoy being out shooting, and not being sat in front of the computer trying to 'invent' the image.

In other words " How Much Is Too Much?"
Click to expand...

Sums up my approach.
 
Yeah I agree with what youre saying CM. I think some things, the shot just needs to speak for itself, untouched.

I think my main thing now is to sit down and learn more photoshop. Like last night, I'd been watching a tutorial on blending modes and have been looking at textures. While doing my 365, I just ended up playing around in Photoshop, and I got the image I wanted. However at first it was frustrating because it just looked silly.

I think a mixture of learning what each tool does, and then getting stuck in with examples and practising is going to be the best way for me :)
 
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