How long should you wait before going pro?

littlemonster

littlemonster

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Gemma
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Reading a couple of other threads has got me thinking how long.


Some people seem to think the camera is all they need to go pro, regardless of understanding of the technical side and experience, others seem to have expressed an opinion that you need 40 years to be a pro.


So how long do you all think is reasonable - for consistancy, let's go with someone who has only ever used an auto P&S before, and has decided to buy a decent DSLR.

Personal opinion for now (although this could change very easily :lol: ) is if somebody is happy to hire someone who has only owned a camera for 2 months and has only shot on auto, so long as that person is honest it's entirely their choice, likewise if they want to spend a few hundred grand on a celebrity photographer. So long as the client is happy with the level of expertise and cost, I can't really see it matters :shrug:


So come on how long is fair?
 
I would say that if a person has 40 days experience or 40 years- if the majority of their income comes from selling their shots (which means people are willing to part with money for them ) then they are professional?:shrug:
 
It depends Gemma.

It depends on the person, it depends on how much time they can dedicate to learning and practicing, it depends on their natural abilities, it depends on the depth of their wallet to a certain extent (particularly when it comes to paying for tuition) It depends very much on their single mindedness when it's much easier to watch TV than to be doing more training in the evenings and weekends. It depends on where they live, what access they have to the subjects they want to shoot and if they have the right space to shoot their chosen subject.

The difficulty arises when the client is unaware that their chosen photographer has such little experience and things don't go as well as they hoped. The difficulty for the photographer is that with such little experience they are unlikely to have the necessary tools to get the shoot done right without luck playing a much larger part than it should. They tend not to have plan B never mind plan C because they lack the necessary skillset.
 
Your question makes no sense. You go pro when you are able to .. We are all different so it takes different times for different people., there are far too many permutations other than if you started wiht a P&S ...Not to mention luck :)
 
littlemonster said:
So come on how long is fair?
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Especially with digital, someone could easily have taken more photographs in 40 days than someone else has in 40 years. And if that was the case, I'm pretty sure I'd rather hire the 40 day person.

In other words - it's entirely down to each photographer. When you are confident enough to produce professional quality photos on demand, and a bunch of people pay money to agree with you then you're ready. Until that happens, you're not ready.
 
How long after buying a guitar can you expect to wait before becoming a professional musician?

Skill and ability has nothing to do with the number of hours spent practicing..

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. that is to say, it's not the photographer that decides when they're "professional".
 
i get paid to take portraits of friends and family and that's because the like the images I take, I don't think that they are too the best of my ability but as Alastair says beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and if someone likes my images I'm more than happy to shoot for them.
 
I reckon it's taken me 4 years for me to call myself a professional/paid part time photographer. That includes 4 years of regularly taking portrait photos, 2 mentors, a few courses, a few wedding assists (many thanks TP!) and spending every spare (and not so spare) penny on equipment.

I still have a huge amount to learn but I have a comfort zone and only charge when I'm in it! Hopefully next month I'll have some more time & post my story and a shedload of photos for C&C.

Edit to say: reread the OP & I don't think that answers the question, but nevermind, I blame the kids I'm meant to be feeding (who are currently flinging pasta across the room)
 
Being a pro phototraphy is not all about having the ability to take great shots that your clients are willing to buy. You have to have suitable business skills to enable you to continue to grow your busness. You also need great marketing skills to get a constant flow of new (and existing) clients to use your services, then need to understand cash-flow and how to understand P & L accounts.
 
Officially a Pro tog earns their living from togging. So if you don't then you ain't There are plenty who supplement income with togging, hence semi pro.

I guess it is different in ever single person.

I did here a good definition though - "An amateur practises until they get it right, a professional practices till they never get it wrong" Know you can never be perfect, but i think that is a good indicator of someones level at a particular style of photography - take weddings. A pro wedding tog will never get a wedding wrong. An amateur may get it 80%right, but not all the way. Both may get paid, only one will get paid more....
 
There's no set time.
Some people just 'get it' immediately with no training other than reading the manual that came with the camera... it just comes naturally.

Some never seem to get it right no matter how many courses they take...
 
If someone is willing to pay you to take photos for them then it's time. If you don't have any further business then try your hand at something else..... ;)
 
Kemble3 said:
Being a pro phototraphy is not all about having the ability to take great shots that your clients are willing to buy. You have to have suitable business skills to enable you to continue to grow your busness. You also need great marketing skills to get a constant flow of new (and existing) clients to use your services, then need to understand cash-flow and how to understand P & L accounts.
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eeerm not all pro togs are self employed surely? staff togs are pro and they dont need any of the above :)
 
KIPAX said:
eeerm not all pro togs are self employed surely? staff togs are pro and they dont need any of the above :)
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:wave: I'm pants at all of the above.... that's for the accounting/marketing depts to deal with :) I just get paid to press a button
 
Rudesing said:
Edit to say: reread the OP & I don't think that answers the question, but nevermind, I blame the kids I'm meant to be feeding (who are currently flinging pasta across the room)
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It does, all answers welcome :D


My thought came after someone on another thread made a comment about people getting cameras and quickly "becoming" pros and basically complaining about it, I was curious how people here generally felt, personal experiences, anything really :lol: :D
 
Looks like you need to wait until you have about 4,000 posts on here...:lol:
 
The guy who takes and sells people's photos all day long at a tourist attraction is a professional photographer. Despite the fact that anyone could learn to do that in 10 minutes.

There again, some photography is obviously far more demanding.

Also, professional photography in general requires more than just photography skills, especially if you're a solo freelancer.
 
Last year I set myself a goal of selling one photo (I had a lanscape shot in mind) and ended up starting a business after I started shooting people and charging for prints. This year I have converted a studio and now have weekly shoots and make about the same from photography as I do from my normal job.

Do I consider myself a pro? No. To me a pro is somebody that does this as their main profession and at the moment its just too scary to ditch the day job and go full time :S
 
RevOnline said:
Especially with digital, someone could easily have taken more photographs in 40 days than someone else has in 40 years. And if that was the case, I'm pretty sure I'd rather hire the 40 day person.

In other words - it's entirely down to each photographer. When you are confident enough to produce professional quality photos on demand, and a bunch of people pay money to agree with you then you're ready. Until that happens, you're not ready.
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So you would base your choice of photographer on who takes more pictures?

Surely it's quality over quantity if the 40 year person is a better photographer.
 
Well I get paid to take photographs and I only bought a non P+S camera a few months ago :)

Not a pro though - I would say that's someone who makes most of their income from it.
 
When I first got my DSLR and didn't know how to use it, I used it on auto mode and I have to say, I noticed no difference between my shiny new DSLR and my old point and shoot. Only once I upgraded from kit lens and learned how to use the camera did my pics improve. I've been doing evening classes for 2 years now, reading everything I can and putting it all into practice as much as possible. People ask me to take family portraits for them and I do it as a training exercise. I have a few favourite websites of professional photographers who specialise in portraits, and have decided that until I can produce something similar I won't charge. It's only family and friends who ever ask me anyway and I'm glad to have people to practise on!
 
it's a personal choice, if you can make money from it with little or no knowledge and blag your way through then all is good and you've gone pro, i know some photographers like this and their business sense is so far above what they can do with a camera it's unreal added to that a bit of luck and away they go.

i however have less personal business sense and think my photography is of a decent standard and it sells, i'm upfront about my abilities and don't ******** and blag, it's my work that sells rather than my sale that sells :)

the opinion of others doesn't matter as to whether you're going/gone pro or not

at the end of the day it's the customers.

+2p :)
 
BooBear said:
I've been doing evening classes for 2 years now, reading everything I can and putting it all into practice as much as possible. People ask me to take family portraits for them and I do it as a training exercise. I have a few favourite websites of professional photographers who specialise in portraits, and have decided that until I can produce something similar I won't charge. It's only family and friends who ever ask me anyway and I'm glad to have people to practise on!
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Now that's a sensible approach. :)

"How long" is really a daft qiuestion - it's more about assessing your work critically alongside professional work and not kidding yourself.
 
ding76uk said:
A professional does not necessarily mean making money with a camera in my eyes..
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your in the minority mate... the general opinion in photogrpahy terms is that your a profesional if your making a living from it...
 
Alastair said:
And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. that is to say, it's not the photographer that decides when they're "professional".
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I agree with this.

A personal take:
- Make the move to (even a modest) DSLR and are blown away with the results compared to the P&S days. Enthusiasm takes hold.
- Friends and family & social network buddies taking the odd P&S snap consider these pictures amazing. "You should do this for a living!".
- Start a post on TP about becoming a pro, and starting a business / becoming a wedding photographer :)

I only say this, because apart from the last point, they have happened to me. However, I'm well aware that although I can produce a pleasing photo, I can't do it consistently, and it's not the sort of thing people will be prepared to pay for in the real world. It's my hobby. Having good equipment and exposing correctly can come quickly, but having an eye for a picture or being able to creatively set up a great shot comes from experience IMO.

That's not to say someone in my position couldn't start selling pictures though. If they're of a decent standard and people want to pay for them, there's business. You get different levels of 'pro' in all walks of life, it's all rather subjective.

I realise this is fairly rambling - sorry!
 
Pro (in anything) in about making the majority of your income from whatever skill.

Therefore if you are unemployed and sell one photo in a tax year to a neighbour for 10p, you are a pro.

On the other hand if you bank 500k from a city job and sold 20k's of pics to Vogue, you aint a pro :D
 
KIPAX said:
your in the minority mate... the general opinion in photogrpahy terms is that your a profesional if your making a living from it...
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And I think the majority are wrong. Any idiot can technically go pro. E.g. Someone could go into Jessops by a 5d2, 24-70 and a flash and tomorrow shoot a wedding for £500. Does that make them pro?

pro·fes·sion·al (pr-fsh-nl)
adj.
1.
a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.
n.
1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.

Note that even the dictionary definition does not place everything on money. It is a grey area, but being paid does not make you a professional in my eyes.
 
This is a purely subjective question no?

For instance, I am a professional commercial photographer. Why? Because I make 100% of my living through my business which is photography and design for corporate business. (shame I cant display most of my pro work for legal reasons :( ) For all intesive purposes to my clients, I turn up and do the job I am booked for in a professional manner and produce exactly what they were after... so in my clients eyes I am a professional photographer.

Now, do I consider myself a pro? Well thats a different question alltogether.

I believe that I can take a good photo, but because I am always striving to improve (and constantly beat myself up when I look at photo's taken by my peers) I am always pushing to be better, because I am never happy with that image I took last week...

I am not sure if I will ever refer to myself as a pro photographer as in my mind that puts me in the same league as the likes of anny whatsherfaceovitch, Zack Arias, Joey Lawrence *insert highly paid and famous togs name here*.... which I am most definately not.

Will I ever be in my mind a pro? Who knows, but I will damn well keep trying ;)
 
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