How many drones are actually used legally?

StewartR

StewartR

Messages
11,513
Name
Stewart
Edit My Images
Yes
I just received an email from Jessops announcing that they have some new drones for sale.

But it got me thinking: drones seem to be the 'must have' thing these days, and apparently they were hugely popular at Christmas, but how many of them are used legally? You can't do very much at all with them without permission from the CAA,but how many people actually bother to get the permission?
 
I'd guess that the majority of the pro level ones are used by people that use them totally legally (with CAA if required and following all the rules and regs), but as for the rest from the vids I've seen there are a huge amount that are used with no regard for the rules!

I nearly bought an inspire but it was the rules and regs that put me off, I think most people must not check before they buy or just not care, as like you say you can't do much without getting approval/breaking the law!
 
What I recently found interesting was that whilst photographing an Evo-Stick Non League match, the BBC who were covering it for a documentary brought out their drone.

This was at the end of the match when players/fans/togs etc were all on the pitch. Now this was no small drone, in fact a very very impressive bit of kit. But this things was hovering just a few feet above our heads and around us... Now, I know there are rules for these things and surely even the BBC can't breach them by flying so low and close?

But I guess as it was private land and with permission of the landowners they could..Even if I felt slightly concerned at how close it was!
 
As the rules about licencing apply only to professional use, this is more about raising revenue than it is about safety.


Steve.
 
I wonder how long before some enterprising company brings out a drone control jammer...
 
50 metres from the nearest person not connected with the flier, less than 400' high.

If used professionally, ie earning loot, CAA has to be consulted, and imagine there would be a whole set of new rules in that box...

Considering buying one myself, but wonder where it could be usefully used, other that terrifying the wife in the lounge!!

MJ:):):):):olympus:
 
JohnX said:
The rules apply to anyone flying a drone.
Click to expand...
Including model aircraft. Very stricked rules apply. A few years back one was flying over North Weald Airfield in essex and crashed through a hanger roof and caused a lot of damage to A/C parked up with. it turned out the operator had no insurance and eventually lost his house to pay for damages to said A/C.
 
Steve Smith said:
As the rules about licencing apply only to professional use, this is more about raising revenue than it is about safety.


Steve.
Click to expand...

There is no license. The CAA issue a Permission For Aerial Work. That is only issued after the applicant

1) has passed a Pilot Theory exam (of which aviation law and safety are key parts).
2) Submitted and had approved an extremely comprehensive (around 50 pages minimum) Operations Manual, of which much is devoted to risk assessments, emergency procedures etc.
3) has passed a practical flight test using the aircraft that he'll be undertaking aerial work with.

When undertaking professional work the Responsible Person must ensure that part of his kit includes a fire extinguisher and medical kit. He also has to wear hi-viz clothing. The work can only be done on completion of a risk assessment and pre-site survey using existing aerial photography, aviation charts and bulletins issued to pilots.
Seems to me that the only people that raise revenue in this field (the CAA and the industry training bodies like EuroUSC) are very concerned with safety.
 
Steve Smith said:
And when not undertaking professional work?...


Steve.
Click to expand...


Steve you said "this is more about raising revenue than it is about safety.". The only people that are raising money from UAVs are those involved with professional work.
 
My reasoning was that if it is primarily about safety, it should be for all users, not just those doing professional work.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
My reasoning was that if it is primarily about safety, it should be for all users, not just those doing professional work.


Steve.
Click to expand...
As @JohnX said, the rules regarding flight apply to the recreational user just as they apply to the professional user. If you are saying that the recreational users should also have to undertake the same training that professional users do, then that will cost......
 
Everyone who flies models (including multi-rotors) are subject to the Air Navigation Orders.

Most club fliers of RC stuff are members of the British Model Flying Association (BMFA) which have achievement schemes centered on Safety (including understanding the relevant ANOs, where to fly, height restrictions, not endangering aircraft or people etc).

The problem is Joe Public is probably totally unaware of their responsibilities

https://bmfa.org/
 
Last edited:
Dave1 said:
I wonder how long before some enterprising company brings out a drone control jammer...
Click to expand...

We did years ago!!

I was surveying on Exmoor with the Royal Engineers on exercise with the RAF.

On a Sunday morning on a disused airfield, many model fliers were doing their stuff. We switched on our survey instruments, "a tellurometer" an instrument to measure distance over many kilometres, and continued with our work. Eventually several model fliers approached us asking what frequencies the instrument was using!!. Apparently they had lost control of the flying machines....

This tellurometer, instrument, one of the first electronic distance measurers (EDM) also interfered with television and airplane navigation systems so I was told...

Long out of date thankfully

Mj
 
Last edited:
most rc stuff is on 2.4ghz these days andvwhilst they employ channel hoping technology its quite easy to swamp the frequency.

even some first person view systems operate on this freq thats why they are banned at some clubs
 
Mark Johnson said:
We did years ago!!

I was surveying on Exmoor with the Royal Engineers on exercise with the RAF.

On a Sunday morning on a disused airfield, many model fliers were doing their stuff. We switched on our survey instruments, "a tellurometer" an instrument to measure distance over many kilometres, and continued with our work. Eventually several model fliers approached us asking what frequencies the instrument was using!!. Apparently they had lost control of the flying machines....

Mj
Click to expand...

I was thinking more of a simple box that just broadcasts a jamming signal (or even a "crash" signal ;)) to prevent drones flying over a property. I don't think it will be long before some ingenious Chinese company has them on dx.com or alibaba.

As more amateur idiots without a clue of the rules fly these in residential areas the more such devices will see a demand.
 
Dave1 said:
I was thinking more of a simple box that just broadcasts a jamming signal (or even a "crash" signal ;)) to prevent drones flying over a property. I don't think it will be long before some ingenious Chinese company has them on dx.com or alibaba.

As more amateur idiots without a clue of the rules fly these in residential areas the more such devices will see a demand.
Click to expand...


Shotgun should work well
 
Daz B said:
most rc stuff is on 2.4ghz these days andvwhilst they employ channel hoping technology its quite easy to swamp the frequency.

even some first person view systems operate on this freq thats why they are banned at some clubs
Click to expand...

My Exmoor exploits was circa 1970. Technology has move on a bit in those 45 years.....

Mj
 
Spiderdudeuk said:
But I guess as it was private land and with permission of the landowners they could..Even if I felt slightly concerned at how close it was!
Click to expand...

It's airspace that is the important factor, not land, and very little of that (if any) is private).
 
Dave1 said:
I was thinking more of a simple box that just broadcasts a jamming signal (or even a "crash" signal ;)) to prevent drones flying over a property. I don't think it will be long before some ingenious Chinese company has them on dx.com or alibaba.

As more amateur idiots without a clue of the rules fly these in residential areas the more such devices will see a demand.
Click to expand...

A couple of kilos of mass falling into a residential area from a height of up to 400 feet really is a great idea. :facepalm:
 
Ricardodaforce said:
A couple of kilos of mass falling into a residential area from a height of up to 400 feet really is a great idea. :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Yep, that's why the idiots who play with these things should never be launching or flying them anywhere near a residential area.

I suppose we will see a tightening of the laws pertaining them when the first one falls out the sky and injures someone.
 
Dave1 said:
Yep, that's why the idiots who play with these things should never be launching or flying them anywhere near a residential area.

I suppose we will see a tightening of the laws pertaining them when the first one falls out the sky and injures someone.
Click to expand...

I'd never defend anyone breaking the rules, but a UAV flying over a residential area is a lot less likely to injure someone than a UAV being sent crashing to the ground over a residential area, which is what you seem to be advocating.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I'd never defend anyone breaking the rules, but a UAV flying over a residential area is a lot less likely to injure someone than a UAV being sent crashing to the ground over a residential area, which is what you seem to be advocating.
Click to expand...

I didn't advocate it, I merely suggest that as more and more of these things are seen flying around in areas where people are, the more likely there will be a demand for some sort of jamming equipment to prevent the thing from flying in peoples vicinity.

Would I jam or attempt to bring down one of these things if it flew in the vicinity of my house? I don't know, I might try and find the operator and ask them to find an uninhabited place to play with their toy, if he didn't comply then I would have to consider other options.

I personally like the idea of a device that would take over control and then do a Tora Tora Tora into the nearest expanse of water...
 
It should take over control of the intruding drone and chase the operator down the road. In kill mode. They do have a kill mode don't they?
 
Last edited:
ianp5a said:
It should take over control of the intruding drone and chase the operator down the road. In kill mode. They do have a kill mode don't they?
Click to expand...

Of course they do. There will be a special 'turn on operator' code which needs to be sent.

A bit like the robot in a Tom and Jerry cartoon which had a 'cat' - 'mouse' switch.


Steve.
 
So y
Dave1 said:
I was thinking more of a simple box that just broadcasts a jamming signal (or even a "crash" signal ;)) to prevent drones flying over a property. I don't think it will be long before some ingenious Chinese company has them on dx.com or alibaba.

As more amateur idiots without a clue of the rules fly these in residential areas the more such devices will see a demand.
Click to expand...
So, you broadcast a jamming frequency ( assuming you know the frequency it is being controlled by) and it loses control and crashes into you/ your house/car/kids and then you try to claim off the operator?
Next thing, we'll be having people claim you should only allow professionals with cameras so they can't invade your privacy : take photos of your house etc.
I don't know what the world is coming to, most of these drones are toys, some are used by professionals, others are used by people quite safely, in clubs with insurance or on private land.
How many drones are seen flying over residential areas? How many have crashed causing injury, or is this just a "Daily Mail" opinion trying to sell papers by scaring the gullible?
Allan
 
I'd be more concerned about drunken youth, criminals with knives and old nasty nonces. You have probably higher chance being hit by lightning or meteorite than one of those drones.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
There is no license. The CAA issue a Permission For Aerial Work. That is only issued after the applicant

1) has passed a Pilot Theory exam (of which aviation law and safety are key parts).
2) Submitted and had approved an extremely comprehensive (around 50 pages minimum) Operations Manual, of which much is devoted to risk assessments, emergency procedures etc.
3) has passed a practical flight test using the aircraft that he'll be undertaking aerial work with.

When undertaking professional work the Responsible Person must ensure that part of his kit includes a fire extinguisher and medical kit. He also has to wear hi-viz clothing. The work can only be done on completion of a risk assessment and pre-site survey using existing aerial photography, aviation charts and bulletins issued to pilots.
Seems to me that the only people that raise revenue in this field (the CAA and the industry training bodies like EuroUSC) are very concerned with safety.
Click to expand...


Indeed.. more info here..

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1995&pagetype=90&pageid=11190

Basically.... for stuff like the DJI Phantom etc.... just get on with it... just don't go over around 400ft approx, within 400ft of large crowds, 500ft from yourself horizontally, or 400ft vertically and you'll be fine. The CAA does not recognise the GPS return home feature as safe enough, so direct line of sight is required at all times..

If you want to fly in congested areas etc, you apply for permission... which you'll probably not get unless you have undergone some form of approved training.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Indeed.. more info here..

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1995&pagetype=90&pageid=11190

Basically.... for stuff like the DJI Phantom etc.... just get on with it... just don't go over around 400ft approx, within 400ft of large crowds, 500ft from yourself horizontally, or 400ft vertically and you'll be fine. The CAA does not recognise the GPS return home feature as safe enough, so direct line of sight is required at all times..

If you want to fly in congested areas etc, you apply for permission... which you'll probably not get unless you have undergone some form of approved training.
Click to expand...

500m distance, not 500ft.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Basically.... for stuff like the DJI Phantom etc.... just get on with it... just don't go over around 400ft approx, within 400ft of large crowds, 500ft from yourself horizontally, or 400ft vertically and you'll be fine..
Click to expand...
The other rule is that you must avoid flying it within 50 metres of a person, vessel, vehicle or structure not under the control of the pilot.

Which is what prompted my original question. How much fun can you have with a drone if you only ever fly it over totally open fields and countryside? Why buy one?
 
StewartR said:
The other rule is that you must avoid flying it within 50 metres of a person, vessel, vehicle or structure not under the control of the pilot.

Which is what prompted my original question. How much fun can you have with a drone if you only ever fly it over totally open fields and countryside? Why buy one?
Click to expand...


"He flew a drone near me!".


"No I didn't".

"Yes you did".

"Can you prove it?"


:)
 
Ricardodaforce said:
500m distance, not 500ft.
Click to expand...

Sorry... typo... part of my brain refuses to go metric :)

This is why I posted it.... half a kilometre is quite a long way.. don't worry - there's still a great deal you can do legally..
 
StewartR said:
The other rule is that you must avoid flying it within 50 metres of a person, vessel, vehicle or structure not under the control of the pilot.

Which is what prompted my original question. How much fun can you have with a drone if you only ever fly it over totally open fields and countryside? Why buy one?
Click to expand...

To offer commercial aerial photography and video services?
Because flying remote control aircraft has been done for over half a century and there are thousands of people that like doing it?

Seems to be you've been sucked into the ant-drone hysteria. Why weren't you asking this question 10 years ago about remote control helicopters or fixed wings?
 
^This....

People have been flying radio controlled aircraft for decades, including helicopters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top