How many group shots at a wedding?

Project Valentine

Project Valentine

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Jack Valentine Parkinson
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I know this topic could lead to "how longs a piece of string" but interested to know how many group shots other photographers take at a wedding. Do you arrange this before or have a list in mind?
 
List, planned by the B&G, I take the usual but then add a few with my own twist of gestures to keep the fun going.
 
Not really, I'm there to take photos so as long as the job is done then everyone's happy. Group shots are quite annoying after a few but they need to be done :-)
 
We eventually dealt with this in the pdf we sent out in response to all enquiries. Under the section heading "What we don't do", item 7 was ...
Many set-up pictures.
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Up to 6 posed group shots is good, more than 8 isn’t. If you
really do need more than that and it’s a conventional English wedding, you’re
probably thinking far more traditionally than we do. Either that or you don’t really
realise how long group shots can actually take.
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And item 8 ...
Shout at your guests or chase after them.
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When it comes to those group shots, our
job on the day is to arrange a bunch of people into a pleasing group and take a
picture of them, not to round them up for it.
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One of many reasons why we ended up doing that was it finally dawned on us that more often than not, it was actually the parents pushing for endless group shots, simply because that's what they thought was proper wedding photography - not that new-fangled Reportidge™ stuff that we did

Formal groups are a doddle to photograph and at one time would invariably generate print sales, and that's basically why wedding photographers always used to do a shedful of them ...
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
We eventually dealt with this in the pdf we sent out in response to all enquiries. Under the section heading "What we don't do", item 7 was ...


And item 8 ...


One of many reasons why we ended up doing that was it finally dawned on us that more often than not, it was actually the parents pushing for endless group shots, simply because that's what they thought was proper wedding photography - not that new-fangled Reportidge™ stuff that we did

Formal groups are a doddle to photograph and at one time would invariably generate print sales, and that's basically why wedding photographers always used to do a shedful of them ...
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Great reply :D
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
We eventually dealt with this in the pdf we sent out in response to all enquiries. Under the section heading "What we don't do", item 7 was ...


And item 8 ...


One of many reasons why we ended up doing that was it finally dawned on us that more often than not, it was actually the parents pushing for endless group shots, simply because that's what they thought was proper wedding photography - not that new-fangled Reportidge™ stuff that we did

Formal groups are a doddle to photograph and at one time would invariably generate print sales, and that's basically why wedding photographers always used to do a shedful of them ...
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Dan, are those quotes paraphrased or what was actually written on your PDFs?

If it's the latter then I admire your straightforwardness! :)
 
I'd like to market myself as a reportage photographer but keep getting hit with mammoth lists of group shots!
 
It's pretty easy. I'll take a bunch of shots during the day, but if you ask me to shoot something (group, shoes, candy buffet, long lost uncle) then it's going in the album. And that either means the other pics aren't, or you're going to pay more :)

Usually half a dozen, often more, sometimes 30+, occasionally 3 figures (one client needed a 3 volume album).
 
danny_bhoy said:
Dan, are those quotes paraphrased or what was actually written on your PDFs?
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Copied and pasted from the pdf, Danny. Message me your email address and I'll send you a copy if you like!

It was all to do with cutting out all the bluff and bullsh1t that's often (usually?) inherent in wedding photography, and above all avoiding either ourselves or the punters wasting each other's time. Plus that approach differentiated us enough for our brides to do all our advertising for us FOC ;)

It worked very well for us, and the only reason I keep banging on about it is that perhaps it might just get somebody wondering about what they do themselves - and why they do it that way ...
 
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Serendipitous Sid said:
Tell them to b****r off.

PS Isn't "reportage" an obsolete term by now?
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Got me wondering what is the latest buzz word - documentary, photojournalism, ???


Sent from my iPad using Talk Photography Forums
 
haggis said:
Got me wondering what is the latest buzz word - documentary, photojournalism, ???
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Dunno, Jim. But whatever it is, I'd avoid using it.

At one time we kept a list of naff quotes from snappers' websites, and one that still makes me chuckle is the FAQ "What is your style?" to which the answer began "My style is ..." :D
 
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Serendipitous Sid said:
Copied and pasted from the pdf, Danny. Message me your email address and I'll send you a copy if you like!

It was all to do with cutting out all the bluff and bullsh1t that's often (usually?) inherent in wedding photography, and above all avoiding either ourselves or the punters wasting each other's time. Plus that approach differentiated us enough for our brides to do all our advertising for us FOC ;)

It worked very well for us, and the only reason I keep banging on about it is that perhaps it might just get somebody wondering about what they do themselves - and why they do it that way ...
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Sorry for the delay mate. I'd love to see it, I admire you're approach. PM incoming!
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
We eventually dealt with this in the pdf we sent out in response to all enquiries. Under the section heading "What we don't do", item 7 was ...


And item 8 ...


One of many reasons why we ended up doing that was it finally dawned on us that more often than not, it was actually the parents pushing for endless group shots, simply because that's what they thought was proper wedding photography - not that new-fangled Reportidge™ stuff that we did

Formal groups are a doddle to photograph and at one time would invariably generate print sales, and that's basically why wedding photographers always used to do a shedful of them ...
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Scratch that - it won't let me PM you Dan. You must have the option to start a convo turned off in your settings.....in keeping with your no-nonsense approach :) :)
 
danny_bhoy said:
Scratch that - it won't let me PM you Dan. You must have the option to start a convo turned off in your settings.....in keeping with your no-nonsense approach :) :)
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More like in keeping with my not realising that was the default setting :rolleyes:

Converse away matey ...
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
More like in keeping with my not realising that was the default setting :rolleyes:

Converse away matey ...
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id love a copy too, i took a no nonsense approach with a B&G and they appreciated iit. I explained that if they want groups then its at the cost of casual / informal stuff which they had been talking about for the first ten minutes of our meeting. And, that factoring the time to round up best men, dizzy brides maids that have been on the bucks fizz since 9.30 may even mean that the B&G portrait timeframe is seriously reduced , they looked at each other then said ' well, its the mums that wanted the groups shots!'. After a quick chat they were more than happy with the nans / grandads and then the parents......4 groups from an initial list of 12.....
 
Ideally no more than 4 or 5 (not counting various B&G shots) but if they want lots then they get lots they are paying the billl after all (although i would try to persuade them otherwise)
 
danny_bhoy said:
I'd love to see it, I admire you're approach.
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gpc1 said:
id love a copy too
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What I omitted to point out is that it took us maybe 6-7 years to get to the point where we knew our market well enough and we had the confidence to take that approach as far as we did. It only worked because everything we did fitted together, from the way we dressed to not advertising to not charging mileage to the snaps we took to the site and the blog we ran - and also because we had the track record.

So whilst I wouldn't advise anybody to take the "no bullsh1t" approach quite as far as we did unless they're well established and they know their market very well indeed, if it encourages you guys to try to question some of what you do and why you do it like you do, great :)
 
I always let the B&G decide, after all its their family, they know who they want and dont want in the photos and how many they need :)
 
How many groups? What the client wants...... providing the client allows enough time!! Like many photographers, I prefer not to shoot too many formal groups, but it's not MY wedding album!

I contact the client 4 months prior to the wedding offering my recommendation for the 'standard' formal groups, and a couple of optional extras, suggesting they are welcome to remove any they don't want. My list is 8 or 10 groups.

I am often asked for more. The magazines don't help by publishing endless lists of photos as a checklist!

Last week's wedding gave me a list of 7 formals, the previous week gave me a list of 26 and added more on the day!!! We have a pre-wedding meeting 2 weeks before the wedding to discuss their 'must have' photos and I did suggest less groups but.... What the client wants :)
 
juggler said:
... how long do you allow per group? [
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If it's the bride asking, the safe answer is "Longer than you think. If the folks in the groups play ball, 5 minutes each."

juggler said:
.. having agreed to take candid photos for a wedding - my first - I'm now being hit with the 'can you just do...' list ..
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And a pound to a penny says you'll hear that again on the day ;)
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
If it's the bride asking, the safe answer is "Longer than you think. If the folks in the groups play ball, 5 minutes each."
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thanks for that - I'd been guessing 5-10 minutes per shot & start with the largest group to save time corralling guests.

And a pound to a penny says you'll hear that again on the day ;)
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Lorks, yes. It's already gone from 'no pressure, just the preparation and candids at the reception' to '..and some groups..' to 'oh, my brother won't be able to do the service after all, can you?' and 'the most important shots will be the bridal party leaving home in the car and arriving at the church, can you do those?'.

Well, I can't do the ceremony 'cos the vicar says no photos except for the signing and leaving the church, and I can't do both ends of the car journey unless I get a motorcycle taxi. In an attempt to be realistic and cover my backside I've asked the bride for a timetable & list of which shots she wants when.
 
juggler said:
... In an attempt to be realistic and cover my backside I've asked the bride for a timetable & list of which shots she wants when.
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In which case I'd treat the timetable as nothing more than a rough guide to what may or may not happen when, particularly if it's mates of the bride doing hair and slap. Tell her to forget bridal prep and arrival at the church unless either you travel in the first wedding car to leave home, or somebody sensible who knows the way is delegated by her to drive you to the church just before she leaves. Make it very clear to her that unless she organises one or the other, she won't get her arrival snaps. Leave the ball in her court. Seriously.

One other caveat. Be careful of the shot list she gives you. If you really want to cover your arse, copy it and send the copy back to her signed and dated by you with a note to the effect that you'll do your best but you can't guarantee any or all of them. (in case you're not aware, it's a standard condition in a wedding photographer's contract that the client agrees that a special request is not a binding instruction, that no picture shall be deemed more important than any other, and that it may not be possible to take all pictures requested.)

Good luck with this one. It seems to me that the bride is coming very close to taking the p***. If she wants a proper job, she should pay for a pro. (And that's no reflection on you Simon)
 
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Dan, thank you for the advice & support.

I've tried to make it endlessly clear to the bride that despite a little training and modest experience I'm not a pro, that I have no backup body, that I could easily stuff up and so on. I agreed to do the gig when it was billed as a relaxed and casual affair, but it's becoming clear that that's not the full story. It irks me that she's got the cash for a big church, a wedding breakfast and separate evening reception in two different venues, a fantastically expensive dress and a vintage Rolls but not a professional photographer - and having found a willing and moderately skilled mug she now wants the full photographic monty too. That's partly my fault - I could have said a clear no to the earliest extensions - but actually I relish the opportunity.

Your suggestion of signing the shot list and adding a suitable note is a good one.
 
I shot a wedding yesterday and was given a list of about 17 that soon turned into around 25...

We some more time on family shots as everyone ran off to the bar or to check in that we did on the couples shots :(
 
Project Valentine said:
I shot a wedding yesterday and was given a list of about 17 that soon turned into around 25...

We some more time on family shots as everyone ran off to the bar or to check in that we did on the couples shots :(
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How come you were given this list on the day?

(And what did you mean to type in that second sentence?)
 
Sorry she gave me the list 2 days before and that should have said we spent more time on the group shots than the couple shots. When we tried to get them people kept vanishing to the bar and their rooms!!
 
Realistically for all their talk and self proclaimed control of every situation most photographers on here including me who are honest will tell you we do what we need to do to please the client. Whilst its great to have small amounts of group shots if that's clearly not the B&Gs ideal then its not your job to change their mind. It makes a lot more sense to compromise, also keep in mind that these group shots sell prints and people have them in houses and on walls so they bring in business in other ways with recommends.

My approach is to recommend a number and the type of shots on my checklist which is sent out on booking and then discuss it further in the months before to get a clearer idea of how many shots , who really wants them , if there are any family issues etc. Remember also that is not written in stone that shots need to be firing line formal OR done at once, and they can be made more fun and spread through the day taking the hassle out of it. And last but not least , ease the pressure of large shots by making sure you get the Ushers to Usher ( whether they like it or not the b&g will back you up anyway ). Splitting it up also stops the gossip which happens with people discussing how long the photographer had us standing around for !

Your aim at the end of the day is to try and have EVERYONE attending the wedding leave with a good impression of you and your service and wedding photography in general, an average wedding has 80 guests all of who know at least two or three people who will marry in the next few years , so there's a few hundred potential clients right there.
 
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