How many pro's do we have in these forums?
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Hey now lets not use words like elitism, someone might get the wrong idea.
Well, I have seen pros refuse training/college photographers access to events despite being accredited by various clubs. I call that the E word. It is the old chicken and the egg syndrome however which is why shooting at your local park/club etc is a great place to cut your teeth.
Aye. They may think we're talking about the classic space sim Elite.
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Hmmmmm..........I sell the odd print,do the odd wedding and generally make brass out of what I enjoy doing.Does that make me a pro tog?........It doesn`t make me an expert,that is for sure.Unlike,it seems, so many self proclaimed pro/experts who like to voice thier indulgent opinions whenever somebody asks.
You know summat, I don`t give a damn.If somebody asks something that I can help with, I will. If I can`t ,I stfu and leave it to the conceited ,arrogant and self opinionated few who feel that thier role in life is to mock all who they feel are beneath them,talentwise.
There are a lot of good men and ladies on here,some pro`s,some damned good amatuers and some who have specific knowledge,these people help,cajole and tutor people through the learning process...........No names mentioned...........500F4 man.........
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Perhaps some of the "Pro`s" should remember that they had to learn and were not always as profficient as they think they are now. Some of them take crap pictures now,in my opinion, but that is where we are all different,thank goodness. I loathe HDR,some like it, fair enough,get on with it.I fully understand the angst caused by the regular question " I gotta do a wedding, what is a DSLR?", I really do, but you guys are educated people,surely you can cut the wheat from the chaff and help the people who are in the same position that you once were?
Anyway, probably expressd myself all wrong, got sore finger ends from typing and would love to fire a barrel over your heads...........
You know summat, I don`t give a damn.If somebody asks something that I can help with, I will. If I can`t ,I stfu and leave it to the conceited ,arrogant and self opinionated few who feel that thier role in life is to mock all who they feel are beneath them,talentwise.
There are a lot of good men and ladies on here,some pro`s,some damned good amatuers and some who have specific knowledge,these people help,cajole and tutor people through the learning process...........No names mentioned...........500F4 man.........
.Perhaps some of the "Pro`s" should remember that they had to learn and were not always as profficient as they think they are now. Some of them take crap pictures now,in my opinion, but that is where we are all different,thank goodness. I loathe HDR,some like it, fair enough,get on with it.I fully understand the angst caused by the regular question " I gotta do a wedding, what is a DSLR?", I really do, but you guys are educated people,surely you can cut the wheat from the chaff and help the people who are in the same position that you once were?
Anyway, probably expressd myself all wrong, got sore finger ends from typing and would love to fire a barrel over your heads...........
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Jeez, who put their hand in your knickers without asking?
Play nice in this thread please.
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Well ya. The guy wanted to know. Plus professionals get to go on shoots amatuers may not, get access and live a different live. It can matter. Professionals wouldn't be writing and selling books on it if it didn't
Indeed, the OP asked how many 'full time, working, don't do any other job than photography type peeps' are on TP. No harm in that at all.
I thought it was quite simple really but the thread seems to have spun right off into something which can be best described as a bit school yard.
I think a poll is a good idea, then all the other 'pro's', ams, hobbyists and newbie peeps can see what's what, if they want to ask a question or seek some guidance or advice from a full time worker then they can clearly see who is and fire away.
Just thought
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.I'm still learning photography - it's my hobby - and I've been getting paid full time for it for the last 37 years! Best job in the world - you get to see so many things - meet so many people - you wouldn't have without a camera in your hand.
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Out of the 3000 posts a day we get on the forum.....it's funny how most of the bickering is in the business forum......
This was one of the reasons we didn't create one ages ago...we didn't want it to separate the members and become elitist and 'us and them'.
This was one of the reasons we didn't create one ages ago...we didn't want it to separate the members and become elitist and 'us and them'.
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Yeah the idea was a simple poll of sorts, I genuninely was interested to see the range of people we have on the forum, from those who do this for a living and those that just like taking pics. It seems to be a lot less simple than that though
Yes, it seems rather strange that a simple question can bring up all sorts of issues....
Marc
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Yes, it seems rather strange that a simple question can bring up all sorts of issues....
Sadly, there's no such thing as a simple question round here. :shake:
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Skipping the whole of this thread, I get paid for shoots every other weekend (ish), but would not consider myself a pro, whatsoever.
grumpybadger
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I still think this is a slightly blinkered definition Pete. For insurance purposes, it is majority of income.
It depends how you define photographic income - do the pros that run workshops have to say they are not pros as some of their income comes from tuition, being a tour guide, etc? Is Andy Rouse not a pro as he sometimes has a TV show on Discovery?
Certainly in nature photography, the field I understand best, most of the successful pros have a portfolio career with photography as the mainstay but branching out into other areas such as publishing - if the book is about conservation rather than making photos surely it can't count as photography?
Paul
Another full time here.
A bit of background though. I've been yearning to do it for ages but lacked the push that I needed to leave full time paid (very well) employment. After all, I'm old enough to know that the grass on the other side is often not so green. That motivation arrived in December when I lost my job. Good ole credt crunch eh?
Thankfully I already had a plan in place and had been squirreling some of that salary away for just such an occasion. I had also been going on training courses, upgrading gear (that took 2 years!) and generally reading everything possible, practicing like crazy, working as a second shooter. trying to get the skills I'm going to need.
I have an initial three month kick start plan to get me up and running and believe me it takes that long to sort out things like sample albums and marketing.
So yes, I'm a pro, but one with L plates.
A bit of background though. I've been yearning to do it for ages but lacked the push that I needed to leave full time paid (very well) employment. After all, I'm old enough to know that the grass on the other side is often not so green. That motivation arrived in December when I lost my job. Good ole credt crunch eh?
Thankfully I already had a plan in place and had been squirreling some of that salary away for just such an occasion. I had also been going on training courses, upgrading gear (that took 2 years!) and generally reading everything possible, practicing like crazy, working as a second shooter. trying to get the skills I'm going to need.
I have an initial three month kick start plan to get me up and running and believe me it takes that long to sort out things like sample albums and marketing.
So yes, I'm a pro, but one with L plates.
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It's still photography related and the opportunity has been granted through their success within photography. Take away the successful photographic track record and they can't dish out the tuition can they?
CT
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Out of the 3000 posts a day we get on the forum.....it's funny how most of the bickering is in the business forum......
This was one of the reasons we didn't create one ages ago...we didn't want it to separate the members and become elitist and 'us and them'.
It's a pity you couldn't have resisted the urge to post this poll Bodders.
grumpybadger
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Oh, I agree with you Tomas but I know of people who actually own effectively a hotel to run photographic tours and sell space in the premises to other people when they aren't running courses (does that make them a hotelier?) and write books for general appeal not just to photographers.
I personally still think it would "count" but it is why I am questioning Pete's very narrow definition.
For the record, I am not a professional. I have never sold a print or made any money from photography. I would find it very hard (even if I was good enough) to match the income I get from my day job through photography. I also would struggle with the thought that I had to take pictures to make money and sell. I want to take the images I want to take - for me.
Paul
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Out of the 3000 posts a day we get on the forum.....it's funny how most of the bickering is in the business forum......
This was one of the reasons we didn't create one ages ago...we didn't want it to separate the members and become elitist and 'us and them'.
TP is recognized by quite a few as a one of a kind forum, one where folk can learn from, develop, improve and also make friends through, thanks to yourself and the rest of the Mod team
.A business section where it's possible for members to seek advice, guidance and ask questions generally is a very valuable cog in the clock work, I understand the reluctance to create such a section, I really do mate, but we really need it and again thanks to you lot for moderating and having to deal with the cak flicking. Hopefully one day folk can be a bit more sensible about it and practice a bit of restraint regardless of full time or not.
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No worries Paul, I understand what you mean but I do believe this particular poll should be treated as straight forward as the voting categories signify.
I am a full timer but I don't call myself a pro, I let my clients do that for me.
I have a lot to learn and sometimes I need advice or need to ask a question and although I have no issues with asking anyone generally sometimes I may need an answer from someone far more experienced than me.
T.
Does it have to be so damn hard? What do you do? Well I'm a full time dentist. I work as a dentist each day and I get paid to do denistry. Thats my job. If we had a poll for how many people are Nikon photographers would we get dragged into the semantics of it all? I own a Canon G9 so I'm not a full time Nikon photographer really and I'm not a full time Canon photographer despite 99% of my photography being with a Nikon. So we'd have to have a huge 16 page thread discussing the finer points of what a Nikon photographer is. *sigh*. Would this be so hard if we asked how many lawyers we have here? How many web designers? Freelancers? Why is the topic of the professional photographer so damn complicated and heated? Marcel is right. This section is really crazy. Maybe the poll should be "How many amatuers do we have here" as it would cause less trouble.
What do you do? Full time professional photographer? Cool ok tick the box and lets get an idea.
What do you do? Full time professional photographer? Cool ok tick the box and lets get an idea.
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Nobody dragged you kicking and screaming into participation in this thread (or maybe they did) simple if you don't like the thread don't participate. :thumbsdown::bang::thumbsdown:
Marc
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Did you actually read his post? Where does it say that he doesn't like this thread? I think he made a very concise point about the original purpose of this thread.
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Not what you have been doing IMO...
Sure it is. The thread is about how many professional photographers are on TP. Read the last line. Sorta seems like the OP's point and the thread title doesn't it. Everyone else is taking off topic, like you. Take your own advice. If you don't like the look of something don't post.
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I read the post and agree that it is a good point but have you read the rest of the threads..
Marc
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Your post quoted a specific one of Pete's but I have read the rest of the thread and I still don't see your problem. :shrug:
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OK no problem then... '' do we have to do this all over again''
Marc
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In which he was referring to the defining of "professional", not the original purpose of the thread.