How much is manual when shooting sports?

dakid

dakid

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I've seen advice that says that you should pretty much have everything manual to make the photos process in-camera quicker (longer RAW burst?), including Shutter Speed, Aperture, ISO and White Balance.

I'm not sure I'm good enough yet, so I'm wondering how much I can get away with, and even whether it's worth bothering with things.

If Kerso ever comes back from wherever he's disappeared to, I shall be using a 70-200 f/2.8L IS lens with my already-owned 40D, so hopefully focussing won't be an issue with multi-point servo focus. I'll probably pick either sunny or cloudy for the WB, but is it safe to pick f/2.8 in aperture priority (for the DoF as much as speed) and then change the ISO so it's as low as possible while still allowing 1/500 (ideally)? How much will light change?

Any and all advice welcome! :D
 
It is going to depend on the amount of light you'll have, but generally the lowest f-number (i.e. F2.8) and the fastest shutter speed you can get at ISO 400 or 800. ISO 1600 if the weather is rubbish. However, that goes for roughly evenly lit scenes with no shadow areas and such.
If you have mixed shadows and well lit environment, then I suggest keeping it on shutter priority mode, so you can be sure there'll be the amount of motion blur you find acceptable. ISO should be set according to the shadow areas the players can be in. Aperture should be set well by the camera when they get onto light. You can try it with Aperture priority too, but I don't think you'll have more pictures that are not blurry with aperture priority, more of the opposite imo. If you shoot raw, you can always adjust the exposure a little better than with jpegs afterwards.
 
The 40D offers an auto-ISO ... is it much use for this? Maybe setting f/2.8 and 1/500 and letting the auto-ISO picking the appropriate one? Anyone ever tried?
 
What sport will you be shooting.. or just any?

For a 70-200 I would suggest f2.8 is a little too thin dof . I prefer F4 unless everyhting is shot at 200. For football if two players are in a tackle I want both in focus and the background out. f2.8 doesn't always hack it (depends on the shot). f4 has more chance of getting them both in.

Single spot focus. AI Servo, Auto WB

If your not up to Manual use yet then go AV mode and set f4 with iso 400 as a start point. this is presuming a half decent day... If bright sunshine then iso 200, You will ahve more keepers with Manual once you know how :)

noise wont matter too much on a well exposed shot so dont be afraid of notching the iso up a bit f needed.
 
dakid said:
Anyone ever tried?
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No, but I could see that being useful to be honest.

In terms of whether or not to use manual I usually decide depending on the conditions. If it's one of those days where the light is constantly changing I'll use shutter or aperture priority depending on what I'm doing. If it's particularly contrasty e.g. shooting a bike against a bright sky I'll often go manual or maybe just stick to Av/Tv and dial in a stop, maybe two of overexposure depending on the conditions.

I'd never heard of setting everything to manual for quicker in camera processing, I'd have thought the file size would have been the same regardless of how the shot was talken :shrug:
 
I shoot manual 90% of the time. There are occasions as dod says.. quickly changing light on a sunny but cloudy day being one... I went to todcaster FC the other week. they have some tall thin trees that the sun is behind.. the pitch was like a zebra crossing dark/bright all the way along.. I had to go AV which I really dont like to.

Manual gives you a constant exposure that you set. it cant be fooled by a bright colour in the background (white seats at a sports stadia for example) or lights or even contrasting kits like a team in black and a team in white.. Or a very black player in a tackle with a very white player.. I find things like that effect the AV mode to its detriment.

Also at sporting events you may be forced into an area (stadia regulations maybe) that means your shooting towards the sun.
 
Ok, that sounds like perfect advice. Thank you.

Yes, it is really for all sports .... initially mostly field sports, like Rugby and Football, but also Marathons and Ice Hockey (which itself has a whole hell of a lot of its own problems!).

The f/4 is interesting ... always figured I'd use f/2.8, but will have to give that a try. Once Kerso flippin' turns up!! Starting to worry about it now :|
 
If you can't get him try one stop digital as well, or MPB have one I think
 
dakid said:
Yes, it is really for all sports .... initially mostly field sports, like Rugby and Football, but also Marathons and Ice Hockey (which itself has a whole hell of a lot of its own problems!).
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Ice hockey.. hehe done that.. indoor sport and its a bit different.. most ice hockey are very poorly lit. indoor without flash (as it should be) then yes you probably are going to be f2.8 and high iso

Also indoor is the easiest to learn manual photography IMHO as the lighting is constant.
 
If you're doing Marathons and shooting 1 runner in a frame, try AV with f2.8.

Go out and practice shooting manual, it's not that scary!

Carl.
 
Just thought as well, try CF4-1 I think it is (?)

It allows you to focus using the Exposure lock button, it's great for sports stuff. :)
 
If you're doing Marathons and shooting 1 runner in a frame, try AV with f2.8.
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mmm
I shot over 40 events professionally last year (triathlon/cycling /running) and I would have to say this is not the best way to get the most amount of keepers,[IMHO] -if light is low then maybe…


but if you have the light f4 or f5.6 is better. You don’t need a very fast shutter to freeze a marathon runner 1/500th is great for 95-98 out of a 100 and 1/1000 will nail 100 out of 100. People can move very fast in football and rugby, typically they do not move that fast in endurance running - even a 5k running event I would set 1/500th unless the light is really good. (All the above assumes shooting at the runners face – not panning from the side) if the light is really bad and my iso is at 800 and I’m at f2.8 I will drop as low as 1/300th – but always with a monopod. {I don’t like going above 800iso with the 1d – I would think with a 5d or 400d then 1600iso…}
If you use centre point focusing then you should be focusing on the runners groin (picture a beer can above and below the head and feet for size cropping) - their arms and legs could be 1 metre in front and behind this point, so f2.8 at 200mm would struggle to get it all in focus (due to lack of dof) , but may get it all in focus at f5.6.

You can do all of the above using manual/ shutter priority / or aperture, you just need to keep an eye on the settings and adapt as the light changes.

I know that the OP is pumping people for info and advice before the race in Reading soon and wants to get the best out of his new 70-200 f2,8 my advice is use it at f.2.8 when you need to but the rest of the time aim for f5.6-8 and position yourself carefully – take the time to look at backgrounds, and find a clean one.

Large races can be very crowded (runners not spectators) if so use a shorter focal length – as this will help you get in the gaps for many races I use the 24-105 for this reason – but always have the 70-200 with me on a second body.

To answer the OP I use M sometimes but find shutter priority for sports more useful
 
dod said:
Just thought as well, try CF4-1 I think it is (?)

It allows you to focus using the Exposure lock button, it's great for sports stuff. :)
Click to expand...


The 40D has an AF button, used primarily for live-view focussing, and there's a custom function to reassign to focus, which I've already done, and I *think* I've almost got to grips with using subconsciously too.
 
sportysnaps said:
mmm
I shot over 40 events professionally last year (triathlon/cycling /running) and I would have to say this is not the best way to get the most amount of keepers,[IMHO] -if light is low then maybe…


but if you have the light f4 or f5.6 is better. You don’t need a very fast shutter to freeze a marathon runner 1/500th is great for 95-98 out of a 100 and 1/1000 will nail 100 out of 100. People can move very fast in football and rugby, typically they do not move that fast in endurance running - even a 5k running event I would set 1/500th unless the light is really good. (All the above assumes shooting at the runners face – not panning from the side) if the light is really bad and my iso is at 800 and I’m at f2.8 I will drop as low as 1/300th – but always with a monopod. {I don’t like going above 800iso with the 1d – I would think with a 5d or 400d then 1600iso…}
If you use centre point focusing then you should be focusing on the runners groin (picture a beer can above and below the head and feet for size cropping) - their arms and legs could be 1 metre in front and behind this point, so f2.8 at 200mm would struggle to get it all in focus (due to lack of dof) , but may get it all in focus at f5.6.

You can do all of the above using manual/ shutter priority / or aperture, you just need to keep an eye on the settings and adapt as the light changes.

I know that the OP is pumping people for info and advice before the race in Reading soon and wants to get the best out of his new 70-200 f2,8 my advice is use it at f.2.8 when you need to but the rest of the time aim for f5.6-8 and position yourself carefully – take the time to look at backgrounds, and find a clean one.

Large races can be very crowded (runners not spectators) if so use a shorter focal length – as this will help you get in the gaps for many races I use the 24-105 for this reason – but always have the 70-200 with me on a second body.

To answer the OP I use M sometimes but find shutter priority for sports more useful
Click to expand...


Thanks for that .... a lot of good advice there. I have a crop-sensor rather than FF, so my 24-105's not quite the same range as on a 5D, but I will have it with me at least.
 
Hi mate,

Have a look at these. Last years half marathon I covered. Shot at 2.8 IIRC, in poor light.
What I did do was a recce on the finish, saw how it ended and worked my position from there. Using runners behind the subject to give the race a sense of depth. Pretty straight forward. Nice 'sportraits' should be available for you on the day...

Pete.
 
Thanks, Pete, but I can't see a link? Had a look at your sets, but can only see Bristol Half-Marathon which seems to be sunny? Interesting to see how you don't care about legs and feet though, for most of the shots. I guess marathon running is about the people not the movement, unlike a lot of sports.
 
sportysnaps said:
To answer the OP I use M sometimes but find shutter priority for sports more useful
Click to expand...

Do you? For sports I find it very important to get a good dof to seperate the subject..and theres no way to control that in shutter priority. M here and if circumstances force me (eg constantly changing light) then I will go AV to set aparture and put iso to give me the bext shutter when in darKest moments.


40 sporting events last year ? Part timer ! :) :)
 
Thanks for that, Pete. I notice how, although you sometimes fill the frame with the runner, a lot of the time you're placing them in either the left- or right-hand third of the frame. Is there a specific reason for this? Contextual thing maybe?
 
I recently went to the alps, took photos of freestyle skiers and boarders.

Obviously, being in the alps, light is plentiful.
I set it to ISO200 and 1/1250 on shutter priority mode, and let the camera do the focussing and the aperture selection.

I would say 1 out of 8 was a throw-away.
 
I've done a lot of Ice Hockey this year, and with the camera I got (1D MKII) it depends so much on the rink and where I shoot from what setting I use.
For me the two things I 'worry' about are ISO and D.O.F - in the last week I shot at a rink where I could set ISO to 500 - 640 and f. 3.2 - 4.0 and still get decent shutter speed. This was when shooting over the glass or from between the benches.
THen on other rinks where I shoot through the glass I have to use ISO 800 - 1000 and f.2.8

So, it all depends on where you shoot and trial and error is the best way to learn.. imo.
 
i've been hearing a lot about the spot focus for sport is this what most of you do ?

tried this the other week and results were not good
 
First photo from the new lens; my mate training for Sunday's Reading Half-Marathon.



This was done with spot-focussing (on the right-hand-side), AI servo, high-speed burst @ f/2.8 in AV mode. ISO was 100, I think. Will check this evening when I get home.
 
dakid said:
Thanks for that, Pete. I notice how, although you sometimes fill the frame with the runner, a lot of the time you're placing them in either the left- or right-hand third of the frame. Is there a specific reason for this? Contextual thing maybe?
Click to expand...

Yes, its about the bigger picture. Evaluate your background before you start to shoot that way you have decent bokah and backdrops rather than a bin full of images. This was about the shape of the finish and the use of the runners and barriers to create form and shape as a photo.
 
dakid said:
First photo from the new lens; my mate training for Sunday's Reading Half-Marathon.



This was done with spot-focussing (on the right-hand-side), AI servo, high-speed burst @ f/2.8 in AV mode. ISO was 100, I think. Will check this evening when I get home.
Click to expand...

Nice - now you are laughing. (y)
 
I think the 40D auto ISO normally only goes up to 400 unless you set it otherwise accordingly in a custom function. I have a 40D and tend to just set the ISO myself. It's pretty good throughout the range though with low noise even at 1600 (though not for that huge poster you want).
 
Diego Garcia said:
Nice - now you are laughing. (y)
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Thanks :D

Stealing ideas from others seems like a good way to start out in most forms of art. Hopefully it won't be too long before I can come up with my own ideas!
 
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