How to closely examine a photograph

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Pat
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Hello everybody. I am getting a bit obsessed with the photograph I posted in my last post. It was posted on various sites and used to decry people who flouted social distancing. There is a question about whether the photo was actually from the coronavirus time. But in any case it just does not look 'right' to me and I am trying to figure out why.
The sun appears to be overhead mostly so shadows are not much use.
If I take a screen shot and blow that up some of the information is lost.
Could anyone please refer me to any sites that would enable me to substantiate or investigate my feeling that the image has been manipulated in some way to make the people appear to be much closer than they actually were.
I think it has something to do with perspective and point of view from which the image was shot.
View: https://twitter.com/domdyer70/status/1276052400592347146/photo/2
- the top image on the right

thank you
 

TCR4x4

Wishes he had a couple more Inches
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Tom
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Definitely from “corona time“ as there is a banner saying “stay home:save lives“ on the third picture.
was it as busy as it looked.. yes, but its been taken with a telephoto lens which has compressed probably several miles of sea front into what looks like a few hundred meters.

There was a post here recently with an article demonstrating how this is used in the media to portray such things.
 

Nod

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Nod (NOT Ethel!!!)
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I posted a link to that thread in the other thread by this OP.
 
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Pat
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Very many thanks for the helpful information. I am thinking about "fake news". And about how there are deepening divisions in our society. The images of the crowded beach were shared on different facebook accounts and there is a lot of criticism of the people on the beach. How much of it they deserved I don't know. But perhaps the telephoto lens use makes them appear more culpable than they actually are. And, possibly, this helps to fuel the illusion of 'us' who are sensible and 'the others' who are not. People seem to accept images as the truth. And technology that distorts and fakes will I think get cleverer and cleverer.

Thankyou to everybody who helped me!
 
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May I ask permission to quote some of the answers and the credentials of the posters to support my argument that the image was not to be taken literally. Please. without quoting names necessarily just saying that the answers were from people who know their stuff.
 
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Dave
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All photographs lie. Which is nothing new to anyone who has looked into how photographs are made and used.
 
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Definitely from “corona time“ as there is a banner saying “stay home:save lives“ on the third picture.
So there is, I had to really look hard. There is a very similar image on Alamy from the very same viewpoint which is from 2019 which could be one of the reasons for the confusion, the lens doesn't affect the perspective but the distance does.
 

Nod

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Very many thanks for the helpful information. I am thinking about "fake news". And about how there are deepening divisions in our society. The images of the crowded beach were shared on different facebook accounts and there is a lot of criticism of the people on the beach. How much of it they deserved I don't know. But perhaps the telephoto lens use makes them appear more culpable than they actually are. And, possibly, this helps to fuel the illusion of 'us' who are sensible and 'the others' who are not. People seem to accept images as the truth. And technology that distorts and fakes will I think get cleverer and cleverer.

Thankyou to everybody who helped me!

Unfortunately the beach photos aren't fake news. Many beaches were overcrowded and since the toilets on some are still closed, people (I use the term generally...) were dumping wherever they could and many were leaving the results either on the surface or burying the boxes.
 
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Ealteacher - perhaps you should worry less about the perspective of the picture and be more concerned with the disgraceful amount of litter left behind by those who were on the beach, because it defintely was them and not those who stayed at home. Every piece of litter was a virus spreading vehicle, it isn't just the people themselves, but the traces of themselves they leave behind.

I found it amusing when people were interviewed on the beach and they were complaining about all the people being so idiotic as to go to the beach....!! It is a bit like people sat in a car in a traffic jam complaining about all the people in cars causing congestion. I can take the moral high ground here because I ride a motorbike and congestion is not caused by motorbikes, nor does it hinder me. :)
 
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Thankyou for this reply, Nod. I agree with you in that I believe there were lots of people there on that day and also that they left an awful lot of horrible mess. So not fake news. I would really like your opinion on whether the top right beach photo makes the people appear closer together than they actually were. I don't have the background to say this is so definitely. But some comments on this thread and the article you referred me to seem to suggest that technically it is possible to do that.
 
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hether the top right beach photo makes the people appear closer together than they actually were. I don't have the background to say this is so definitely. But some comments on this thread and the article you referred me to seem to suggest that technically it is possible to do that.
I'm not Nod sorry, but yes it certainly is possible, the perspective has been compressed due to the distance the image was taken from, the further away the photographer the more compressed (i.e. closer together) the result will be, then just choose a focal length of lens to give the composition required.
 
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Thankyou for this reply, Nod. I agree with you in that I believe there were lots of people there on that day and also that they left an awful lot of horrible mess. So not fake news. I would really like your opinion on whether the top right beach photo makes the people appear closer together than they actually were. I don't have the background to say this is so definitely. But some comments on this thread and the article you referred me to seem to suggest that technically it is possible to do that.

Have a look at some full moon pictures and you will soon see how you can make it look like the moon is virtually on top of Earth. The juxtaposition and telephoto perspective compression are often used as a tool in making a photograph. In this beach instance a photographer has simply used photographic tools to compress the view, the same as the moon.

Fake news has been published ever since newspapers were first printed. I blame William Caxton. Every publisher, whether that be a huge corporate or a solo diarist, blogger or article writer, has a personal opinion and that will colour their preferences according to their own personal perceptions, or aims! Fake news used to have another name, propoganda. It was used as a mental weapon in World War 2, Burma, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and will be used in any and every campaign, whether military or peaceful for evermore. It is simply a fact of human nature.
 

LC2

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I can take the moral high ground here because I ride a motorbike and congestion is not caused by motorbikes, nor does it hinder me.
You should prefix that with "Often".
If you'd ever experienced the mayhem leaving Angel Farm at the end of one of the All England Hells Angels bashes, you would be fully aware that motorbikes can cause congestion :)
Yes - I'm a biker too, and always went to these on 2 wheels.
 
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Very many thanks for the helpful information. I am thinking about "fake news". And about how there are deepening divisions in our society. The images of the crowded beach were shared on different facebook accounts and there is a lot of criticism of the people on the beach. How much of it they deserved I don't know. But perhaps the telephoto lens use makes them appear more culpable than they actually are. And, possibly, this helps to fuel the illusion of 'us' who are sensible and 'the others' who are not. People seem to accept images as the truth. And technology that distorts and fakes will I think get cleverer and cleverer.

Thankyou to everybody who helped me!
There was an example of this on the national news recently. In one piece of footage people looked packed in on the beach like sardines but they followed this with footage from a drone and people were actually quite responsibly spaced. The newscaster made no comment about this and the line of the piece was that people were crowding in and behaving irresponsibly.

I assume there are two possible explanations, ignorance of what's going on with the different footages or deliberate misrepresentation. As "People behave responsibly" isn't a headline that the shrill UK media are likely to use I assume the explanation is more likely to be deliberate misrepresentation and if that's the case a pox on all their houses.
 
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You should prefix that with "Often".
If you'd ever experienced the mayhem leaving Angel Farm at the end of one of the All England Hells Angels bashes, you would be fully aware that motorbikes can cause congestion :)
Yes - I'm a biker too, and always went to these on 2 wheels.
I was the official photographer for Maz's funeral from The Farm. The Kent Show was a regular, so I take your point, but club meetings were not a daily occurance like commuting congestion is. You can set your watch by the Bank Holiday mayhem caused by shed draggers, wobblyboxes and family vehicles full of bored kids!
 

LC2

Negan
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You can set your watch by the Bank Holiday mayhem caused by shed draggers, wobblyboxes and family vehicles full of bored kids
Well that's certainly the truth. I'd hate to live in a tourist hotspot.
There was no way I was heading to the beaches during the last hot spell. It was trouble waiting to happen.
Joris Bohnson should have left the restrictions in place until after the heatwave to avoid the obvious impact (but maybe he wants everyone to go out an kill themselves, dunno...)
 
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Well that's certainly the truth. I'd hate to live in a tourist hotspot.
There was no way I was heading to the beaches during the last hot spell. It was trouble waiting to happen.
Joris Bohnson should have left the restrictions in place until after the heatwave to avoid the obvious impact (but maybe he wants everyone to go out an kill themselves, dunno...)
I think some of it sadly comes down to money, crossing your (or his) fingers and hoping things are ok.
 
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Peter
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Definitely from “corona time“ as there is a banner saying “stay home:save lives“ on the third picture.
was it as busy as it looked.. yes, but its been taken with a telephoto lens which has compressed probably several miles of sea front into what looks like a few hundred meters.

There was a post here recently with an article demonstrating how this is used in the media to portray such things.
I remember seeing a video of the crowds at Bournemouth taken last week from a drone flying along the beach a few metres from the shoreline which quite clearly showed that most folk were actually quite a distance from their neighbours. Can't think what site it was on now.
 
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I think you're getting too caught up on the image. The people were there in the midst of a worldwide pandemic. Wether it's been compressed by using a telephoto lens or not is by the by. It isn't fake news, it's right in front of your eyes to see, as was all the s*** they left behind. That's what you'd be better off concentrating on, not the photo itself.
 
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I think you're getting too caught up on the image. The people were there in the midst of a worldwide pandemic. Wether it's been compressed by using a telephoto lens or not is by the by. it isn't fake news, it's right in front of your eyes to see, as was all the s*** they left behind. That's what you'd be better off concentrating on, not the photo itself.
I don't think it is.

If it gets to the point of deliberate misrepresentation of what's happening in reality then the media need a kick up their backside. The littering is indefensible but that is another issue.
 
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I don't think it is.

If it gets to the point of deliberate misrepresentation of what's happening in reality then the media need a kick up their backside. The littering is indefensible but that is another issue.
There is nothing on that tweet about the folk being close together other than the photo taken on a long lens. The tweet is about the litter and human waste left behind. No misinterpretation in that particular post.
 

Nod

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your opinion on whether the top right beach photo makes the people appear closer together than they actually were.

Possibly. The only viewpoint that would show for sure is from directly above. Looking at the short shadows that seem to be touching in some instances in that shot, I would guess (but it can only be a guess - I wasn't on Bournemouth beach) that some people were well within the 2m suggested distance but they could have been just passing, members of the same household etc..
 
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Pat
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Hi Lensflare
Thankyou for your reply. Please don't think that I am more concerned about the perspective and not caring about the mess. Of course I care about the mess and danger. My paternal grandmother died of the second wave of Spanish flu and the effect on the children she left behind was horrendous.
I also care about divisions in society and how they might be exaggerated by what people say or illustrate about other people.
Just listening to BBC In Our Time programme about Hannah Arendt and hoping to educate myself about this cause I find it all a bit scary!
:)
If you have got a bit of high ground, moral or real - hang on to it! All best!
 
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There is nothing on that tweet about the folk being close together other than the photo taken on a long lens. The tweet is about the litter and human waste left behind. No misinterpretation in that particular post.
In your post you said "Wether it's been compressed by using a telephoto lens or not is by the by. it isn't fake news, it's right in front of your eyes to see,"

The litter is terrible and the people leaving it should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. My point is as stated, that IMO using compression to give a false impression is wrong and is dishonest or at my kindest maybe just incompetent fake news.
 
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In your post you said "Wether it's been compressed by using a telephoto lens or not is by the by. it isn't fake news, it's right in front of your eyes to see,"

The litter is terrible and the people leaving it should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. My point is as stated, that IMO using compression to give a false impression is wrong and is dishonest or at my kindest maybe just incompetent fake news.
That's fair enough, I could have worded my initial post better. However, if someone is surprised at the news agencies giving false impressions or "fake news", then I think that says more about them than the agencies. It's what they've done for years, because good news doesn't sell nothing.
 
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Pat
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Too many people were on that beach.
The image of them under discussion may misrepresent how close the people were to each other.
I think both statements are true?
I don't think people are expressing surprise at manipulation - certainly I am not. My point I think is that a lot of people were very, very incensed by the image. It is that kind of anger which concerns me on principle if it has been stirred up by misrepresentation. And my original post was to ask people who know a lot more than me to help me to decide about the photo. Thankyou very much for all your help.
 

Nod

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My point I think is that a lot of people were very, very incensed by the image.

I think that more people are incensed by the behaviour of some of the people on the beach(es) rather than by the photos. Would it have been any better (or worse) had a wide angle lens been used at a closer distance to make the people appear further apart?
 
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The photo is real. It is not misrepresenting what happened.

The people that travelled to the beaches in Devon last weekend are inconsiderate bloody idiots and a disgrace to humanity.

The only 'fake news' is from people who are trying to deny that it happened or excuse the behaviour.

Next?
 
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Phil
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The people that travelled to the beaches in Devon last weekend
Hehe, Bournemouth is in Dorset, I totally agree with your sentiments though, north Devon last weekend didn't appear to have problems with numbers, in fact Northam Burrows although busy (which is normal at this time of year) had fewer visitors than I am used to seeing...
 
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I’m not really sure of the relevance, no one can really tell from that image if they are close together or not, that’s not what I took from it. What is clearly obvious though is there’s a lot of them and surely that’s the main point?
 
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Too many people were on that beach.
The image of them under discussion may misrepresent how close the people were to each other.
I think both statements are true?
I don't think people are expressing surprise at manipulation - certainly I am not. My point I think is that a lot of people were very, very incensed by the image. It is that kind of anger which concerns me on principle if it has been stirred up by misrepresentation. And my original post was to ask people who know a lot more than me to help me to decide about the photo. Thankyou very much for all your help.
YES, the media (all of them) have an agenda. Which agenda depends on the piper, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Media of all types is used to colour judgement from those who see it, that is the entire puropse of the media nowadays. They don't report news - how often do you hear or read: The Queen is going to say... the Prime Minister will state.... is expected to say.... This isn't news, which is telling us what has happned. This kind of reporting is telling us WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. It is a powerful tool in population control. What is stated in the media can very quickly be used to herd cats..... the cats being the general population. If you don't go with the flow, you are pilloried and called something distasteful, whether that be 'facist', 'racist', 'lefty', 'snowflake',. I haven't read a paper or watched the news for years. It is all mind control. I was part of it, but thankfully I only supplied photographs and copy on liesure activities or transport hardware and the supporting infrastructure (maintenance facilities and the like). I feel very fortunate that was never involved in normal news type reporting.
 
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Snip:
. I can take the moral high ground here because I ride a motorbike and congestion is not caused by motorbikes, nor does it hinder me. :)
Until the motorbike is ridden irresponsibly and at inappropriate speed for the rider's ability and/or the prevailing road conditions at the time, and the rider makes a mistake.. or another motorist does but the motorcyclist is travelling too fast to take avoiding action.

In which case the road will probably have to be closed for a number of hours while the incident is dealt with and appropriate investigation as to the cause has taken place. In which case, traffic congestion can be caused by a motorbike.

Yes, it works the other way round, with motorists colliding with motorcyclists who are riding entirely responsibly and within the speed limit and limitations of road conditions but, after giving it some thought, can you really deny that congestion and traffic jams can be motorcycle related? :whistle:
 
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Snip:
Until the motorbike is ridden irresponsibly and at inappropriate speed for the rider's ability and/or the prevailing road conditions at the time, and the rider makes a mistake.. or another motorist does but the motorcyclist is travelling too fast to take avoiding action.

In which case the road will probably have to be closed for a number of hours while the incident is dealt with and appropriate investigation as to the cause has taken place. In which case, traffic congestion can be caused by a motorbike.

Yes, it works the other way round, with motorists colliding with motorcyclists who are riding entirely responsibly and within the speed limit and limitations of road conditions but, after giving it some thought, can you really deny that congestion and traffic jams can be motorcycle related? :whistle:
You're reading quite a bit into that. I should say it is extremely rare for a motorcycle to be the cause of a traffic jam and extremely common for it to be caused by cars.

Did he touch a nerve?
 
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You're reading quite a bit into that. I should say it is extremely rare for a motorcycle to be the cause of a traffic jam and extremely common for it to be caused by cars.

Did he touch a nerve?

There's a reason that motorcyclists are known in the health service as 'donors'.

And that isn't for their financial generosity.

And as for traffic jams. Those are caused by road planners, not by the vehicles. And that is quite often deliberate.
 
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There's a reason that motorcyclists are known in the health service as 'donors'.

And that isn't for their financial generosity.

And as for traffic jams. Those are caused by road planners, not by the vehicles. And that is quite often deliberate.
I'm aware of those facts too. :p
 
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Snip:
Until the motorbike is ridden irresponsibly and at inappropriate speed for the rider's ability and/or the prevailing road conditions at the time, and the rider makes a mistake.. or another motorist does but the motorcyclist is travelling too fast to take avoiding action.

In which case the road will probably have to be closed for a number of hours while the incident is dealt with and appropriate investigation as to the cause has taken place. In which case, traffic congestion can be caused by a motorbike.

Yes, it works the other way round, with motorists colliding with motorcyclists who are riding entirely responsibly and within the speed limit and limitations of road conditions but, after giving it some thought, can you really deny that congestion and traffic jams can be motorcycle related? :whistle:

That is the bike's fault again is it?
Hot hatch/drifters...60mph- 80mph in 30mph zones..... injunctions from the High Court granted to stop 'cruising' and car gatherings. Yes, motor car drivers are little, lilly-white hens.
Caravans, can't reverse, clogging up the hloliday routes with their smalls scattered across the parish because they forgot they had a garden shed in tow. Woblyboxes having to be stopped by the Police and warned that they will be allowed to proceed in 2 hour intervals and should they group up again £1000 fines will be issued (last year Fort William was the 'holding ground).
 
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Hello everybody. I am getting a bit obsessed with the photograph I posted in my last post. It was posted on various sites and used to decry people who flouted social distancing. There is a question about whether the photo was actually from the coronavirus time. But in any case it just does not look 'right' to me and I am trying to figure out why.
The sun appears to be overhead mostly so shadows are not much use.
If I take a screen shot and blow that up some of the information is lost.
Could anyone please refer me to any sites that would enable me to substantiate or investigate my feeling that the image has been manipulated in some way to make the people appear to be much closer than they actually were.
I think it has something to do with perspective and point of view from which the image was shot.
View: https://twitter.com/domdyer70/status/1276052400592347146/photo/2
- the top image on the right

thank you
I thought the same when viewing the high res on my phone, the area on the bottom right did look strange. But when opening on my laptop and viewing on a larger screen i think it is due to the low angle and the focus plane. The people on the lower part of the photo are slightly out of focus, due to the low angle the people some distance behind them are in close proximity on the photograph and they appear in much sharper focus. This gives the appearance of a distance layer that may have suggested fakery to you.

Screenshot 2020-07-03 at 08.33.46 am.jpg
 
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