How to separate negatives stuck together

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Gina2022

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Gina
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Hello all,

My photos and negatives became water damaged after a leak. The photos are stuck together and stuck to the paper packet they came in.

The negatives are all stuck together too

The photos hold a lot of sentimental value as they are of family members, most of who passed on. The photos span ~50 years.

Is there some way I can get the negatives apart so they can be digitized & we can get reprints. If there's anyone here who offers that service professionally, please do send me your website & contact details. Thank you. Gina.

Mods: If this post is in the wrong forum, please let me know.
 
Hi, Gina and welcome to TP - sorry that it's because you have the problem.

I've reported this post and suggested it's moved (or duplicated) in the dedicated Film and Conventional section which is full of advice, nearly all good!

My suggestion would be to try soaking a less important selection of the negatives in plain water to see if that released them from each other and the paper - you never know your luck!
 
Soaking in lukewarm water should do the trick; I've had the same with negs stuck in those paper sleeves. I once had a few sheets of negs (those ringbinder ones that hold a full 36 frame set) get wet and then dry leaving the negs stuck. Just soaked the lot in in the bath. Don't be tempted to peel the dry paper off, it'll come off fine with just water. It won't hurt to add a bit of wetting agent, or even a tiny squirt of washing up liquid. You can try carefully cutting the edge of the sleeves too, to allow water to seep in that way.

Hopefully, that should work fine. And then buy some plastic sleeves for all the negs.
 
Nod said:
My suggestion would be to try soaking a less important selection of the negatives in plain water to see if that released them from each other and the paper - you never know your luck!
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Welcome to TP, and I'm sorry to hear of your problem I know how important old photographs and negatives are.

My advice is the same as above. Just be care of the temperature of the water, as the image is held in a gelatin emulsion that can come away or even be dissolved if the temperature is too high. How high it too high? If you can comfortably hold your hand in it, it's fine.

And the other post above is also spot on. Just don't try forcing anything, and let the soaking effect the separation.

There are several places that will digitise the negatives for you.
 
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I'm pretty sure negatives can be re-washed. I know I've used a drop of washing up liquid as a wetting agent too, so as Nod said, I'd initially try soaking them in a room temperature solution of water + a very small amount of washing up liquid to get the paper off the negs. If you've got thin curtain rails, you can use a clothes peg to peg them to the rails inside to dry.

As for scanning solutions - it depends entirely on your budget and how much you're prepared to do yourself as well as how many negs you're talking about.

You could get an app for your smartphone and take photos of the negs. Quality is pretty poor, but it's very cheap and time consuming.
Option 2, assuming they're all 35mm scans, you could buy a dedicated neg scanner - Amazon do some pretty cheap ones, and do the job yourself. Time consuming and requires a modicum of computer savvy to scan & store them.
Option 3 is something like https://www.filmscanuk.co.uk/ or https://analoguewonderland.co.uk/products/film-scanning or any kind of Google search for "Negative Scanning Service". Can't recommend any of them as I haven't tried them, but I'm sure someone else will chime in.
 
Harlequin565 said:
I'm pretty sure negatives can be re-washed. I know I've used a drop of washing up liquid as a wetting agent too, so as Nod said, I'd initially try soaking them in a room temperature solution of water + a very small amount of washing up liquid to get the paper off the negs. If you've got thin curtain rails, you can use a clothes peg to peg them to the rails inside to dry.
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There's no problem in rewashing negatives. There are processes that require rewashing afterwards - but Gina doesn't need to know that, only that rewashing is fine. The only hazard is that until it's dry, the film will be more susceptible to mechanical damage, and, dare I say it, dust settling on the emulsion and sticking to it. The ideal place to dry negatives, in the absence of a film drying cabinet which I've never owned, is in the bathroom on a line after running the taps (or taking a shower) so that the water vapour takes the dust out of the air.
 
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When drying the negs, it's a good idea to weight them, as they will naturally want to curl up if unweighted. Normally you'd use weighted film drying clips at the ends ,but with cut negs you don't have much for the clip to hold onto without damaging the emulsion. I used to use stiff wire and small nuts to weight down strips of 6 frames; thread the wire (larger straightened paperclips might work) through the holes a the edges (I'm assuming 35mm here), and put a couple of nuts on to weight it all down a bit. Enough to stop the film curling up, anyway.
 
Thank you for the welcome & for all your replies. I'm going to give this a go with one strip of negatives first. When doing a search on this topic the other day, Photo Flo was recommended. Is this a good wetting agent? Would you recommend anything else? Thanks again. Feeling a bit more hopeful now.
 
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Gina2022 said:
Thank you for the welcome & for all your replies. I'm going to give this a go with one strip of negatives first. When doing a search on this topic the other day, Photo Flo was recommended. Is this a good wetting agent? Would you recommend anything else? Thanks again. Feeling a bit more hopeful now.
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Wetting agent helps negatives to dry by dispersing the water. It's not dissimilar to washing up liquid, except without any colours or scents added. A very small amount of washing up liquid will probably do the same job and save you the cost of buying some wetting agent. Plus you probably have some in the house. Don't use a lot though - just a few drops, not a big squirt. :)
 
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I always found proper wetting agent preferable to washing up liquid. They are similar, but different. I believe washing up liquid contains salt, which is corrosive to the chemicals in the emulsion. WUL works at a pinch, but I’d use WA myself.
 
Photo Flo is a respected wetting agent. The reason for a wetting agent is that left to its own devices, water will gather into droplets, and, assuming that you haven't given a final rinse in distilled water (de ionised will work just as well for this purpose) the mineral residue in the water will be left behind on the film after it's dried. Wetting agent reduces the surface tension, which is what causes water to form "bubbles" on a surface rather than spreading out when the water volume is low.

Alternatives are to displace the water entirely with a soak in pure alcohol or a similar; Agfa used to market a product called Drysonal (I still have a bottle) to do this. In a pinch, you could use meths, but I'd stick (no pun intended) with water.

Suspending the film to dry by a corner lets the water run to a single corner, which helps. I'm assuming that your negatives are single ones as they used to come back from the chemist, rather than strips, so drying will be more labour intensive in terms of hanging them up.
 
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We've been considering only the negatives, but the photos can be separated in the same way. Photos are printed using water based solutions before being given a final water wash, so the paper isn't going to dissolve. If they are/were glazed prints (really shiny surface) then that may be removed leaving them as "unglazed glossy" but the image will remain. They may be stained from the paper packet though, although assuming black and white that can be easily fixed by copying.

If they are colour, some colour processes have a stabilizer as the final step rather than a wash, and the soaking my affect this, although not in the time scale that it will take to have them scanned. They could always have another pass through a stabilizing solution, at a guess. I'd have to have more information to be certain of any of this.
 
Assuming that negatives and prints are in separate clumps, it doesn't really matter. In your position, I might start with the prints on the assumption that if they come away OK, there is slightly less pressure on negative separation. Although I'd still recommend getting fresh (and possibly larger) prints made. Negatives hold a lot more detail than the prints made from them.
 
hi all,

Has anyone been able to get hold of Kodak Photo-Flo recently? It seems to have been out of stock for months. I'm still looking at attempting to clean these negatives (with the help of a photography teacher).

Are there any other wetting agents you'd recommend?

Many thanks
 
Ilford make a similar product.

If all else fails and the negs are important enough to you (and you don't mind being on telly!!!), it might be worth seeing if The Repair Shop would be interested.
 
Sangoma said:
I've used washing up liquid as a wetting agent since 1973, and never seen any evidence of any problem.
It needs only one small drop in a litre of water.

You could use the "eco" one which has none of the additives :)
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I've used both, never saw any difference. My negs still look fine.
 
Nod said:
Ilford make a similar product.

If all else fails and the negs are important enough to you (and you don't mind being on telly!!!), it might be worth seeing if The Repair Shop would be interested.
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Thanks Nod., I'm not sure I'd want to be on telly! :LOL:
 
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From memory wetting agent is just a mild detergent solution to break the surface tension of the water to prevent water droplets forming on the negatives. Washing up liquid will be fine. Temperature wise it was always around 68° f or 20°C for black and white. I cant remember the temp for colour but just to wash I cant see the above temps being a problem.
 
hi all,

I'm finally starting this process! [Life gets in the way sometimes! :)]

I now have ilfotol wetting agent, & a photography teacher helping me at my workplace.

My question is how long does it generally take for the negatives to separate? I'm wondering whether I do this on a Thursday and will I need to go back in on the Friday to check / hang them up to dry?

Are we talking hours / days? Does the water need to be changed so it doesn't go slimy, in which case I can't leave them over the weekend?

Do I need distilled water for the final rinse?
Should I handle the negs with special gloves when drying out?

Apologies for all the questions!! My first time doing this.

Many thanks in advance :ty:
 
I can't really say how long, as it would depend on how stuck they are. I'd personally expect the time to be measured in minutes, or at worst hours, and not days. It is possible to oversoak film, and have the emulsion part company from the base - in theory. I've never actually come across it in practice, or read of anyone who achieved it - but some people do lift the emulsion from the base as part of their unconventional practices, so it might be worth looking up how they do it to know what to avoid.

Distilled (or deionised) water would be best for the final rinse, just to reduce the chance of any deposits being left; but if you're using a wetting agent, it's less important.

Just holding the negs by the edges should be fine; if you wear gloves, you might leave deposits from them, plus you may find it more difficult to manipulate the negatives. The only real warning I'd issue is to hang them up to dry in a dust free environment, and preferable one without much footfall. If doing this at home, a bathroom is usually best, especially if you've just used steam to reduce dust in the atmosphere.
 
StephenM said:
It is possible to oversoak film, and have the emulsion part company from the base - in theory. I've never actually come across it in practice, or read of anyone who achieved it - but some people do lift the emulsion from the base as part of their unconventional practices, so it might be worth looking up how they do it to know what to avoid.
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This happened to me.

I soaked some neg strips in water for 45 minutes and when they eventually came apart the emulsion slipped off, literally slipped off. I didn't rub them or anything like that.

If the negs are that important I'd seek professional advice before attempting this.
 
Thanks
StephenM said:
I can't really say how long, as it would depend on how stuck they are. I'd personally expect the time to be measured in minutes, or at worst hours, and not days. It is possible to oversoak film, and have the emulsion part company from the base - in theory. I've never actually come across it in practice, or read of anyone who achieved it - but some people do lift the emulsion from the base as part of their unconventional practices, so it might be worth looking up how they do it to know what to avoid.

Distilled (or deionised) water would be best for the final rinse, just to reduce the chance of any deposits being left; but if you're using a wetting agent, it's less important.

Just holding the negs by the edges should be fine; if you wear gloves, you might leave deposits from them, plus you may find it more difficult to manipulate the negatives. The only real warning I'd issue is to hang them up to dry in a dust free environment, and preferable one without much footfall. If doing this at home, a bathroom is usually best, especially if you've just used steam to reduce dust in the atmosphere.
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Thanks Stephen,

That's all really useful to know (y)

I've been offered use of the dark room at work so I imagine not many ppl using it.

I will buy distilled / de ionised water.

I'll update here how it goes. Appreciate everyone on this forum:)
 
GreenNinja67 said:
This happened to me.

I soaked some neg strips in water for 45 minutes and when they eventually came apart the emulsion slipped off, literally slipped off. I didn't rub them or anything like that.

If the negs are that important I'd seek professional advice before attempting this.
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Yikes, that's a bit worrying :oops: :$

They are important & v. sentimental.

So you soaked for only 45 minutes & that's what happened? Can I ask what the temperature of the water was? Thanks
 
The temperature is an important question. For context, before I started using the Harman water saving wash method, I standardly washed my films for 30 minutes in either six changes of water, 5 minute intervals, or 30 minutes in a continuous flow after I'd used progressively cooler water rinses to bring the temperature down to that of the cold tap.

I recall that Grant Haist (former Kodak chemist) has some comments on washing temperatures and dangers in Modern Photographic Processing which I might look up later.

Edit to add:
The normal black and white processing temperature is 68 F, 20 C. Modern colour processes go higher. Older books (as in older when I was young!) often carried information on tropical processing where temperatures were always higher than 20 C.
 
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