How to set the correct M settings?

Andyvalver

Andyvalver

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Andy
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Now guys, ive been reading the "How to understand exposure" book and its great. Its shown me how to use manual and thats great, i love it.

One problem i seem to have is, and ill try and explain so you get what im on about.

I was at a lake and was taking a picture of a swan on the water. I set my camera to F5.6 as it was an overcast day. I pointed at the swan which was bright white as you all know swans are, and i moved my shutter speed until the light meter read 0. Now the swan came out ok but the green lake water came out dark. So i tried again setting the light meter with the water and naturally got an ever exposed swan lol. Do you just have to guess the balance? Maybe, not set the light meter to 0 and go a few stops the other way?

Im really new at the manual game, im talking a few days, so just point out if its obvious what ive done wrong. I know i can edit the photo to make it better but id rather take a good one to start with.. :P
 
The Subject Luminance Range was too great for the camera to record both the highlights (swan) and the darker elements (water) - digital cameras can only record a certain amount - known as 'latitude'...
You have to decide what's more important - the swan or the water - and expose accordingly.
With static subjects you can do an HDR capture - 5 or more captures at different exposures, then combine them using either Photoshop or a dedicated HDR program to increase the information recorded in the final image.

BTW this problem is as old as photography itself, so don't feel disheartened...lol
 
With the contrast of white and dark I would imagine some compensation would be required. Also, a lot would depend on what metering was in use, evaluative, spot metering etc. Maybe need a bit of a trade off on what was more important in the shot.

I'm only an idiot mind......:lol:
 
Arkady said:
BTW this problem is as old as photography itself, so don't feel disheartened...lol
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Lol cheers for clearing that up. Ive taken some ok photo's in manual but this particular photo was annoying me. Im not great at it anyway :)
 
Neither was I when I started (and some would argue that nothing's changed there either...) lol

Just practice - you'll get it eventually...
 
why bother using manual if you are just going to use the setting the camera gives you. should just have used AV.

Andyvalver said:
I was at a lake and was taking a picture of a swan on the water. I set my camera to F5.6 as it was an overcast day. I pointed at the swan which was bright white as you all know swans are, and i moved my shutter speed until the light meter read 0.
Click to expand...
 
what meter are you using
does your camera have spot metering...thats all you need
expose properly for the highlights and let the shadows take care of themselves
conversely meter your hand in the sunlight or take incident readings if its a handheld meter with a cone/diffuser
you can bracket your shots as well
then choose the best and throw away your photoshop software
;)
 
POAH said:
why bother using manual if you are just going to use the setting the camera gives you. should just have used AV.
Click to expand...

It depends what your shooting doesnt it? If you shooting flowing water then you need a slower shutter speed to show the movement, you set the shutter speed you require and then adjust the F stops. Auto doesnt really notice that the water is flowing so manual or another setting is best. Also, it is used for creating different effects, DOF ect. But you still need to follow the meter to a degree. I thought it was obvious!

mrcrow said:
what meter are you using
does your camera have spot metering...thats all you need
expose properly for the highlights and let the shadows take care of themselves
conversely meter your hand in the sunlight or take incident readings if its a handheld meter with a cone/diffuser
you can bracket your shots as well
then choose the best and throw away your photoshop software
;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, it has a meter built in, thats what ive been using. :)
 
Andyvalver said:
Yeah, it has a meter built in, thats what ive been using. :)
Click to expand...
set for spot metering then...you can spot the area to expose for which will also do the focus
and then recompose
if you jot down the exposure you can then transfer it to manual settings if you need to do a bit of o and u exps
i use the +/- twiddler on my menu dial to darken and lighten as i compose
the best shots usually come after loads of mistakes
 
Andyvalver said:
It depends what your shooting doesnt it? If you shooting flowing water then you need a slower shutter speed to show the movement, you set the shutter speed you require and then adjust the F stops. Auto doesnt really notice that the water is flowing so manual or another setting is best.
Click to expand...

in this instance you would be better off using TV mode and the camera would select the correct aperture to deliver the right exposure.

it has been said that if you have the camera's meter at 0 more than 85% of the time.. then there is no point you using manual.

it is mostly for tricky lighting situations. if you spot meter on a white swan, the camera will try to make it 18% grey so all the rest of your photo will be dark.

so to make the camera make the swan white.. you would spot meter and add 1.5 stops for instance which will render the swan white.

you are able to choose to alter the shutter speed OR the Aperture to arrive at this result.

hope that helps a bit.
 
Metering is not too difficult really. If you use spot metering and meter from your subject (which is usually the part of the image you want correctly exposed) then you have to decide where you want the various tones to fall.

The average DSLR sensor has a five stop range of dynamic range which will contain detail, plus an additional 2 stops range in which no detail will be recorded (black and white).

When you meter from your chosen tone, you then have to decide where you want it to fall within the tonal range, hence when metering from your swan (I'm assuming it was a white one) the reading you obtained (if used) would have given you a grey swan with underexposed shadows, in order to correct this and move the tones up the scale you would have needed to compensate by increasing the exposure by 2 stops (4x) which would have then rendered the swan white but still keeping some detail (in the feathers) without blowing the highlights.

So as a rough guide (experience will improve your results).

Metering from the brightest part of the scene in which you wish to retain detail, increase the exposure from the reading obtained by 2 stops. (Best for use with transparancy film and DSLR sensors as it protects the highlights).

Metering from a mid tone (green grass etc) use the reading obtained. (Average and best for casual shooting)

Metering from the darkest part of the image in which you wish to retain detail, decrease the exposure from the reading obtained by 2 stops. (Best for use with print film)

Once you have sufficient experience you will be able to judge which tones fall where on the exposure scale and will be able to compensate accordingly.
 
if you want a slow shutter speed you set a slow shutter speed using TV not sure why you mention auto :shrug:


Andyvalver said:
It depends what your shooting doesnt it? If you shooting flowing water then you need a slower shutter speed to show the movement, you set the shutter speed you require and then adjust the F stops. Auto doesnt really notice that the water is flowing so manual or another setting is best. Also, it is used for creating different effects, DOF ect. But you still need to follow the meter to a degree. I thought it was obvious!



Yeah, it has a meter built in, thats what ive been using. :)
Click to expand...
 
POAH said:
if you want a slow shutter speed you set a slow shutter speed using TV not sure why you mention auto :shrug:
Click to expand...

My bad. I thought you meant auto lol. What is av?

Is that just A on the settings? The only ones i have are M S A and P

Cheers for the advice guys :)
 
It doesnt matter. I understand what they are now after a quick read of the manual lol.

Those settings will be easy to use now i understand manual.

Although im not sure about P
 
Andyvalver said:
My bad. I thought you meant auto lol. What is av?

Is that just A on the settings? The only ones i have are M S A and P

Cheers for the advice guys :)
Click to expand...

TV is time value on Canons and AV is aperture value.

S is shutter speed on others and A is aperture.
 
FFS...it makes no difference what metering method is used if the SLR is too broad for the camera to record it...
 
Andyvalver said:
It doesnt matter. I understand what they are now after a quick read of the manual lol.
Those settings will be easy to use now i understand manual.
Although im not sure about P
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sounds like you would be safer with P and use the +/- options on the menu dial

Av is so you can set a desired aperture
Tv equally for a set speed
P will give you a bias on the speed side but still give reasonable apertures
a lens doesnt need to be closed down all the time and at 1/2 its range usually resolves good imagery...unconfused

a tripod test with differing settings on aperture will show this
 
He means exactly what he was saying in post 2.

If there's more than about 5 stops difference between white and black you won't get everything properly exposed, whether or not you use P,A,S or M or Auto or a scene mode or any other tricks you can think of.
 
Andyvalver said:
Thanks alot :)
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burnt out highlights are worse than underexposure
go for the swan as your highlight and get the correct exposure to show feather texture if close enough
swans are white and should look like it...so dont expose for the utmost highlight or the swan will come out grey...like snow does
it really needs a couple or three shots..bracketed..to cater for the variations

then its over to PS
 
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