Beginner I am confused about which camera i should buy.

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demir

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Demir
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I have no background about photographing and I want to learn. I like arty, monochrome, grainy, old, retro looks and also great pastel tones or colorful neon lights. Quickly i want to buy a camera and start to learn street photographing. I am thinking to buy Canon G7 X mark2 or Fujifilm X10/X20. The prices are similar. I don't have too much budget and i want to carry my camera to anywhere easily. For my research Canon looks better but the photos taken by Fujifilm looks like to me has more characteristic in it. Probably it is about the person who take the photo or prejudgment. Taken a photo which is similar to my requests is based on a person or camera? Or is there any features that someone can and the other one can not? And also fujijilm has a film effects in it, is there anything like that in Canon or possible to load? Yes i have a lot of question if i asked a stupid question, İ am sorry i don't have enough information. I am waiting to your recommendation.
 
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I just recently bought a Sony RX100 mk vi. It is unbelievably good and tiny. I think for street photography it would be perfect. Those effects that you want are better applied in something like Lightroom I would say, although you can of course achieve grain naturally if you want. The main thing I like about the Sony is probably the sharpness and the quality of the autofocus.
I only have experience of Micro 4/3 and APS otherwise but I’m only using the RX100 at the moment.
 
Hi @demir

Just some things to consider?

As you have noted some makes & models have onboard jpeg engines that will create a range of specific 'looks'. But bear in mind these are very fixed/formulaic, so having a computer and editing software to learn how to "create your own look" IMO is possibly more important than the incamera processing.
 
Fuji definitely have some nice film emulations that are very difficult to reproduce EXACTLY in post processing, although you can get very close.

Out of your options I’d choose the Fuji simply because it has a viewfinder, even though it’s pretty rudimentary.

If you are happy to use a fixed focal length the Fuji X100 series is definitely worth considering.
 
The Canon is probably the better camera on paper, but it sounds like you want the Fuji.
 
The last camera I bought was a Fuji X100f but I'm not sure I'd recommend one to someone just starting out as for one thing I don't think I've ever had so many out of focus shots from a modern camera and I don't think that's just me as I've seen Fuji focus issues mentioned in reviews.

They're nice cameras but I think an alternative could be something with more consistent focus used with the film simulations either in camera or applied post capture with Nik Filters (the free version is afaik still available) or something equivalent. I do know that some claim that Nik Filters is awful but there is an almost infinite number of combinations of settings to be applied so something half decent must be possible and once found can be applied as a preset. So that's my recommendation, almost any modern camera with decent and consistent focus and apply either in camera or post capture film simulations. The result might not be exactly Fuji like but could give a nice look and maintain decent focus consistency.

I don't know anything about Canon's so my recommendation is the Panasonic GX80 and an Olympus 17mm f1.8 or Panasonic 14mm f2.5 :D
 
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Do you have a camera on your phone? Maybe start using that first and it might help you decide what’s important and therefore which camera to get.
 
There is a YouTube channel called imative photography or something similar and the chap looks at images of famous photographs with a distinctive style and attempts with a hood deal of success, the recreate the style. He does this with an entry level DSLR.
My point being the camera is not so important especially these days where they all do so many things.
Go to a camera shop and play around with a few, see which feels best in the hand or buy one with the best discount or maybe buy into a system with the widest range of available lenses (or the one most vintage lenses can be adapted to).
Don't fret so much about this or that feature of the camera however.
 
I believe there's a good way to get into photography and that's to start out simple. Spend $1000 on a pretty nice camera and your gonna have to spend a lot of time learning how to work the camera and not enough time learning to take a good photo! Big difference in the two. I've been fooling with photography maybe 30+ yrs and have never really figured out these newer camera's. My old Nikon FG and an old Minolta I had I learned a bit about how to take a pretty good photo and the simple camera's didn't take up my time learning them. Got a Nikon F5 toward the end of my film days and the instruction manual was about like a copy of War and Peace, what happened to the manual that was short and concise? Problem these days is even entry level camera's are full of more than you will likely ever use. Top end? Forget it! I have a couple small point and shoot camera's and even they have more stuff than I'll figure out how to use. Problem is both developed mechinacal problem's far to soon. Good thing I could stick to basic stuff and still get good photo's if I paid attention to what I was doing, framing and where the light was coming from. In the photography world it seem's to me the camera companys are overloading the market with entry camera's with far more confusing stuff for the newcomer and he has to fight his way through that to simply get a good photo. I remember my old Nikon FG simply didn't have all that stuff and what I got to learn first was how to take a good photo, not professional, just good! I also remember back then guy's that had those old Pentax film camera's seemed to be disadvantaged as I though my camera would allow me to do more than their's, I was wrong! They had an easier time learning good proceedure's because simple as my camera was, their's was simpler! I finally upgraded to my Nikon F5 and the best photo's I had were from that old inexpensive FG!

I think another place to watch out for is lens's. You simply don't need a $1500+ lens to take a good photo. Fixed power one's certainly have their place but, especially for a beginner, variable one's work better. Somewhere on here guys were talking about 35mm lens. Well something like an 18-200, yea I have one, covers well less and well more than a 35mm fixed lens! And for the person just getting going, and inexpensive after market lens I believe suit us better. less expensive and still takes good photo's. Professional? Well give a good pro the aftermarket lens and see what he/she does with it! There's a reason people are willing to pay some of them!

The camera, the lens, tripod, flash ect are no more than tools to do a job with. It's the mechanic, not the tool!
 
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Get the Fuji, experiment with the film sims and tweak and add your own. Get Capture One (express for Fuji) it’s free and take things from there.
 
There are a few ways to achieve the "arty, monochrome, grainy, old, retro looks and also great pastel tones or colorful neon lights." looks you like.
You can start with a sharp image from a good camera/lens and use software on a computer - you always have the sharp version to work from.
You can use a camera with built in presets to take a sharp image and make it look like a retro image - if you save in RAW+JPG you should always have the sharp version too.
You can use a good or bad camera and a bad lens to take images that have some of that quality - you get what you get and there's no going back.

I bought a very cheap plastic lens for my Olympus system and it's taken some images I would spend hours trying to create in processing.
I love playing with it, but I wouldn't use it alone.
flic.kr

Holga HL(W)-OP Lens for Olympus PEN digital camera

£9.68 worth of Chinese plastic lens fun 25mm @ F/8
flic.kr flic.kr

I used to have a FujiFilm camera and I really loved the film simulation modes.
If you get one that takes interchangeable lenses then you can always try cheaper, vintage lenses from eBay etc. to get a more authentic "vintage" look.

In your shoes I would probably choose a Fuji and save in RAW+JPG so you have the retro/vintage effect straight away but you can also play with the image later.
 
@Don Fischer

I couldn’t disagree more.

In the old days with fully manual cameras, you had to learn how to focus on your (still) subject, and learn how to set the exposure properly.

You didn’t find out that you’d made a glaring error till a week later when you got your photos back from the shop.

The composing an image part is exactly the same now as it was then. :)

However, nowadays the modern camera will focus on what it thinks is your subject and get the exposure nearly right most of the time straight out of the box.

You just need to learn to take control of the focus mechanism (it doesn’t always pick your subject) and you’re all good to take correctly exposed and focussed images nearly 100% of the time (I was lucky with 10% when I learned in the old days).

What’s more; if it goes wrong, or if you want to examine your settings, all the information you need is right there in front of you.

If you need any help with that, the internet is full of helpful people to give advice. Again when I was learning, there were some totally rubbish books, and I had no idea what my ‘wrong’ settings had been - it took years for the simple stuff to sink in.

Nowadays a bit of determination will turn a newbie into a competent photographer in months.
 
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Just cos it’s fun:

My tv remote has 29 buttons, when I was growing up our b&w tv had one switch and a knob to tune it between the 3 available stations.

It might ‘look’ confusing but it’s easier to get a different channel on my modern tv. And the other buttons? Obviously they mean I have so much more functionality.

My car steering wheel has more controls than there was on the whole car in the 60’s. But the car is actually much easier to drive.

There’s thousands of examples of similar
 
For the sort of look the OP's after straight out of the camera, I'd go for the X-20 (unless an X-30 can be found in budget). The Sony RX-100 vi is a great little camera but I prefer the Fuji (I just wish it fitted in a shirt pocket!)
 
Don Fischer said:
Problem these days is even entry level camera's are full of more than you will likely ever use.
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And one other point.

There’s no such thing as an entry level camera. It’s marketing BS designed only to create an upgrade path. In no way are they entry level cos they’re easy to use.

But back to the OPs actual question.

The Fuji is literally designed and marketed for people like you.

But the reality is that if you want to stretch, improve on the cameras presets, you’re gonna need to learn a bit more about photography and processing your own images.

You can start with the Fuji, move up to snapseed or similar, but chances are you’re gonna end up with an interchangeable lens camera and a computer with some expensive software too.

Strap in, it’s a fun ride.
 
Phil V said:
You can start with the Fuji, move up to snapseed or similar, but chances are you’re gonna end up with an interchangeable lens camera
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But keep the compact for times when you don't want/need to carry the system around!
 
I have two compact's, Point and shoot? One sort of works and the other off hopefully getting fixed. One is a Nikon the other a Canon. Both ran me about $300+ and only made it through about a year. Got them for a reason. I get my dog's out working on birds a bit and carrying along my DSLR is simply not workable. The Point and shoots ride in a pouch on my belt! Then If I go somewhere new rather than take my DSLR which I don't know if I will find anything I want to shoot, take a point and shoot and if I get something I like, I can come back with the DSLR later. As fragile as my P&S's are they do take some pretty good photo's! I think this was with a point and shoot in the house!

1685199289318.jpeg
 
Phil V said:
@Don Fischer

I couldn’t disagree more.

In the old days with fully manual cameras, you had to learn how to focus on your (still) subject, and learn how to set the exposure properly.

You didn’t find out that you’d made a glaring error till a week later when you got your photos back from the shop.

The composing an image part is exactly the same now as it was then. :)

However, nowadays the modern camera will focus on what it thinks is your subject and get the exposure nearly right most of the time straight out of the box.

You just need to learn to take control of the focus mechanism (it doesn’t always pick your subject) and you’re all good to take correctly exposed and focussed images nearly 100% of the time (I was lucky with 10% when I learned in the old days).

What’s more; if it goes wrong, or if you want to examine your settings, all the information you need is right there in front of you.

If you need any help with that, the internet is full of helpful people to give advice. Again when I was learning, there were some totally rubbish books, and I had no idea what my ‘wrong’ settings had been - it took years for the simple stuff to sink in.

Nowadays a bit of determination will turn a newbie into a competent photographer in months.
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In the old days you had to learn how to take a picture. Today you have to figure out how to work a tool! The composing the image part is the same but the beginner is often clueless about that. Teach him to use the equipment and he could still take a photo that's not all that hot! I really like my digital as it's opened up a whole new world to me, printing. Love printing my own photo's and never got far doing that with film. A tuff part in places like this is the experienced see things as obvious that to the beginner is clueless! The modern camera is quite a bit like the old camera, it's simply a tool! problem is learning to use this new tool is quite a bit more involved than the old tool!
 
Don Fischer said:
In the old days you had to learn how to take a picture. Today you have to figure out how to work a tool! The composing the image part is the same but the beginner is often clueless about that. Teach him to use the equipment and he could still take a photo that's not all that hot! I really like my digital as it's opened up a whole new world to me, printing. Love printing my own photo's and never got far doing that with film. A tuff part in places like this is the experienced see things as obvious that to the beginner is clueless! The modern camera is quite a bit like the old camera, it's simply a tool! problem is learning to use this new tool is quite a bit more involved than the old tool!
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We've already established that the picture creating bit remains exactly the same. :rolleyes:

The issue is you seem to believe that operating the tool has become more 'complicated', whereas I think it's simpler.

In the old days you had to work out how to use a tool too -

You had to learn how to load a film, not too taxing - but I bet every single one of us has misloaded at least one roll. If we ignore the composition bit (as it's not changed).
Then you had to determine the exposure - either by using an external meter, relying on the guide in the film packet or if you were lucky, using the cameras inbuilt meter, you did this by selecting a shutter speed on the camera and an aperture on the lens - but again, if you were very lucky had a fully auto mode, and you could let the camera handle this. Once that was done, you could set about focussing on your subject - firstly you hoped it was static (if not, you needed a great deal of skill), so using the other ring on the lens, you would adjust the focus until the image snapped into focus in the split screen, then you released the shutter, and wound the film on so the camera was ready to take another shot once you had the camera set.

Tell me again that's not a complex process...

Nowadays the process is:
Unbox the camera, charge then insert the battery, insert the memory card.
Switch it on, it's already on full auto mode (and you can quickly check with the quick start guide in the box), now all you have to do is frame your image, half press the shutter and press the shutter when you're happy.

I think there's a hint of your own technophobia colouring your view of modern cameras - cos the text above is all completely true, and it's obvious to everyone else that modern cameras are simpler to use. :)
 
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Phil V said:
We've already established that the picture creating bit remains exactly the same. :rolleyes:

The issue is you seem to believe that operating the tool has become more 'complicated', whereas I think it's simpler.

In the old days you had to work out how to use a tool too -

You had to learn how to load a film, not too taxing - but I bet every single one of us has misloaded at least one roll. If we ignore the composition bit (as it's not changed).
Then you had to determine the exposure - either by using an external meter, relying on the guide in the film packet or if you were lucky, using the cameras inbuilt meter, you did this by selecting a shutter speed on the camera and an aperture on the lens - but again, if you were very lucky had a fully auto mode, and you could let the camera handle this. Once that was done, you could set about focussing on your subject - firstly you hoped it was static (if not, you needed a great deal of skill), so using the other ring on the lens, you would adjust the focus until the image snapped into focus in the split screen, then you released the shutter, and wound the film on so the camera was ready to take another shot once you had the camera set.

Tell me again that's not a complex process...

Nowadays the process is:
Unbox the camera, charge then insert the battery, insert the memory card.
Switch it on, it's already on full auto mode (and you can quickly check with the quick start guide in the box), now all you have to do is frame your image, half press the shutter and press the shutter when you're happy.

I think there's a hint of your own technophobia colouring your view of modern cameras - cos the text above is all completely true, and it's obvious to everyone else that modern cameras are simpler to use. :)
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Well the new digital cameras I doubt I'll ever master. The old film camera's I could figure out how to work, well, until my Nikon F5 showed up. Totally confused me. I think my first digital was a Nikon D70. Really was a pretty simple camera to use but I doubt I'll ever figure out everything in my D7000. I believe you can spend your time trying to figure out what all the camera can do or you can spend yout time taking picture's.
 
Don Fischer said:
Well the new digital cameras I doubt I'll ever master. The old film camera's I could figure out how to work, well, until my Nikon F5 showed up. Totally confused me. I think my first digital was a Nikon D70. Really was a pretty simple camera to use but I doubt I'll ever figure out everything in my D7000. I believe you can spend your time trying to figure out what all the camera can do or you can spend yout time taking picture's.
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I don’t think I’ll ever use every function on my R6*. But that’s not the point.

The point is that I can hand a stranger my camera to take a picture of me and my wife and even if they don’t speak English I can explain how to use it.
I couldn’t have possibly done that with a manual film camera - it’d have taken hours to do the same.

Like everything else in the world, whilst automation has made it simple to do complex things, engineers have added more and more functionality because they can (needless complexity). Famously people only use about 5% of the functionality of MS Word. But importantly - almost everyone can create a CV with it, whereas almost no one could have done the same thing on a manual typewriter.

*it took me half an hour to set the R6 up to how I like to work, 5 mins to show the Mrs the small difference in use from previous cameras, but this equals a massive increase in both our ability to capture pin sharp images of the grandkids.

So again; I’d say your attitude to the technology is ‘old tech is easy because I learned to use it, but new tech scares me’.

And that’s perfectly fine, it’s a natural part of the human condition. :)

But what’s not fine, is you pushing your prejudice onto a potential new photographer :)
 
Phil V said:
I don’t think I’ll ever use every function on my R6*. But that’s not the point.

The point is that I can hand a stranger my camera to take a picture of me and my wife and even if they don’t speak English I can explain how to use it.
I couldn’t have possibly done that with a manual film camera - it’d have taken hours to do the same.

Like everything else in the world, whilst automation has made it simple to do complex things, engineers have added more and more functionality because they can (needless complexity). Famously people only use about 5% of the functionality of MS Word. But importantly - almost everyone can create a CV with it, whereas almost no one could have done the same thing on a manual typewriter.

*it took me half an hour to set the R6 up to how I like to work, 5 mins to show the Mrs the small difference in use from previous cameras, but this equals a massive increase in both our ability to capture pin sharp images of the grandkids.

So again; I’d say your attitude to the technology is ‘old tech is easy because I learned to use it, but new tech scares me’.

And that’s perfectly fine, it’s a natural part of the human condition. :)

But what’s not fine, is you pushing your prejudice onto a potential new photographer :)
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Pushing my prejudice? I was mearly giving an opinion! Isn't that alright? There's a couple of you on here that seem to have the attitude that anyone not agreeing with you should simply shut up! Ya see what your are saying is actually nothing more than your opinion also!
 
Don Fischer said:
Pushing my prejudice? I was mearly giving an opinion! Isn't that alright? There's a couple of you on here that seem to have the attitude that anyone not agreeing with you should simply shut up! Ya see what your are saying is actually nothing more than your opinion also!
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It’s counter productive when your ‘opinion’ is that modern cameras are ‘too complicated’.

I’d respect you (and your opinion) a little more if you could accept some facts and reflect. Or even acknowledge the content of my posts. But it appears that’s not going to happen so you see my challenge as a personal attack. Which it isn’t.

And for clarity - everyone is entitled to an opinion doesn’t mean that all opinions are equal or even valid. :)

Hope that helps.
 
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Phil V said:
It’s counter productive when your ‘opinion’ is that modern cameras are ‘too complicated’.

I’d respect you (and your opinion) a little more if you could accept some facts and reflect. Or even acknowledge the content of my posts. But it appears that’s not going to happen so you see my challenge as a personal attack. Which it isn’t.

And for clarity - everyone is entitled to an opinion doesn’t mean that all opinions are equal or even valid. :)

Hope that helps.
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FWIW I think both you and @Don Fischer are right though it’s mainly a guess. Like a lot of people here I started with a family box camera and gradually ‘progressed’ but I don’t think I was ever conscious of having to learn a lot of new stuff at any one time, So I do wonder how someone with either no experience or only camera phone knows where to start with most modern cameras. Yes, you, Phil, can pick up any camera and it’s an open book and you will be able to correct any accidentally set wrong settings and so on and have a reasonable idea of what all the buttons do but I’m not sure (I really don’t know!) that a complete novice will get to use one before giving up in frustration so I’m with Don on that..

Of course I don’t really know you and you may spend a lot of your time instructing novices :)
 
sphexx said:
Of course I don’t really know you and you may spend a lot of your time instructing novices
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All I know for certain is that I have handed one of my complex modern cameras to dozens of friends and family and with 30 secs guidance they can take a picture that’s well exposed and in focus.

When I used a fully manual film camera, it took a lot of explanation to do the same, and having lent my sister a camera for a family holiday, after a couple of hrs of guidance, she sent off a completely blank roll of film to the processor.

I appreciate that’s not a massive dataset, but I’m happy that’s not untypical.
 
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