Beginner I think I prefer JPG to Raw..Please dont kill me!

James your thread title sounded like a silly thing : you can't see a RAW file until you turn it into something ... for example a Jpeg,
but then I read your reasons and I think you've thought it all out rather well.:)
I'm nut sure I'd agree on your choice to downsize to that camera from DSLR while also dumping the RAWs.
One step at a time is best ... then you'll know whwere things start to go wrong if you run into a problem...

Well to be honest I may go back to a DSLR/CSC at some point, but when I'm in a better financial position than I am now and can buy a couple of really good primes and a modern body as well as spend money travelling etc to use them. If it came to a choice (it actually does atm), I'd go for travel money & decent compact instead every time.

I prefer the portability of the compact though, in a perfect world I'd have both.
 
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Plenty of good compacts that will allow you to save raw and JPEG.

Personally, I shoot JPEG all the time on all my cameras since I prefer to spend time shooting than in PP. I've played with raw and after spending some time farting about with assorted sliders, I ended up preferring the JPEGs my camera had delivered! Takes a little while to set up the cameras' in camera converters but I now trust them to get it close enough for my wants/needs.
 
Plenty of good compacts that will allow you to save raw and JPEG.

Yep, I have one that does both.

I went to Snowdon last week and took about 200 pictures. Like I said earlier in the thread, the ones I didn't keep didn't get binned for any reason that raw would've helped, just that I didn't like them/they were duplicates etc. There were a couple that were shot into bright morning sunlight that I couldn't save but they didn't look any better after I tweaked the raw files either. That is/was just part of the learning curve about what conditions work and which don't. The pictures I've edited and kept were well within the parameters of the data retained in the jpegs and look fine.

I shot both and again finished up with a shed load of raw files to delete that I didn't need to shoot. The camera jpegs came out great - I had a play around with it before I went, altering the settings slightly and have had to do very little editing.
 
For me there is no contest - RAW all the way. Hopefully these two should explain why I say this.

This first one is sooc jpeg.
00000017 copy.jpg


And here is an adjusted RAW file. Tweak to WB, adjusted sharpening, levels set correctly.

00000016 copy.jpg
 
But Brachytron those adjustments seem to be equally achievable from a Jpeg ... you've just oranged it and slightly sharpened it.
As has been said, everyone should do what is right for them. I am genuinely pleased if jpgs give you the result you want, but I have never been able to get as good results from tweeked jpgs as from RAW so this is what gives me the best results. Jpgs are lossy so adjustments will only ever make things worse. I use Canon's free DPP software, which if left alone will process a RAW file exactly to match the in-camera jpg. Other RAW converters need much more work, and don't easily give good results which is why I don't use them.
 
As has been said, everyone should do what is right for them. I am genuinely pleased if jpgs give you the result you want, but I have never been able to get as good results from tweeked jpgs as from RAW so this is what gives me the best results. Jpgs are lossy so adjustments will only ever make things worse. I use Canon's free DPP software, which if left alone will process a RAW file exactly to match the in-camera jpg. Other RAW converters need much more work, and don't easily give good results which is why I don't use them.

You can adjust jpg's in Canon's DPP aswell ;)
 
As has been said, everyone should do what is right for them. I am genuinely pleased if jpgs give you the result you want, but I have never been able to get as good results from tweeked jpgs as from RAW so this is what gives me the best results. Jpgs are lossy so adjustments will only ever make things worse. I use Canon's free DPP software, which if left alone will process a RAW file exactly to match the in-camera jpg. Other RAW converters need much more work, and don't easily give good results which is why I don't use them.

Jpegs are only lossy if you have poor workflow. Good workflow will have you saving your jpeg as a lossless format if you choose to do some editing, this will prevent the destruction you speak of.
You are right, everyone should do what is right, and I personally prefer RAW. But some myths always needs to be challenged :)
 
I've recently (and I don't know how it happened), come back from 2 shoots to find the camera had been set to JPEG*.

Now, one of those shoots was with studio lighting, and is no problem whatsoever. The other though... Shot with a mix of windowlight and fluorescent over the period of an hour during which the windowlight waned seriously - that's challenging for LR with Raw files, I'm having a nightmare trying to process JPEGS to make them look consistent.

* just realised the 6d doesn't show the quality setting on the top LCD, not happy.
 
For me there is no contest - RAW all the way. Hopefully these two should explain why I say this.

This first one is sooc jpeg.
View attachment 61566


And here is an adjusted RAW file. Tweak to WB, adjusted sharpening, levels set correctly.

View attachment 61565
You could have easily adjusted the Jpeg to get the same result or even easier just us the contrast/saturation in camera
 
Jpegs are only lossy if you have poor workflow. Good workflow will have you saving your jpeg as a lossless format if you choose to do some editing, this will prevent the destruction you speak of.
You are right, everyone should do what is right, and I personally prefer RAW. But some myths always needs to be challenged :)
jpgs are always lossy, irrespective of your workflow. They also have are 8-bit rather than 12- or 14-bit for RAW files, so the range of tones and colours captured is always less. Once these have gone, they cannot be recovered and any other adjustments will only reduce quality further. Still, each to their own.
 
jpgs are always lossy, irrespective of your workflow. They also have are 8-bit rather than 12- or 14-bit for RAW files, so the range of tones and colours captured is always less. Once these have gone, they cannot be recovered and any other adjustments will only reduce quality further. Still, each to their own.

While I agree with everything else in your post, the bit I have highlighted in bold is the exact point I was disagreeing with.

Let me turn this around, why would any other adjustments reduce quality further if you have a good workflow?
 
Talking of challenging myths. If you use a digital camera you shoot in raw. That's the way it works. If you set your camera to jpeg you're setting it to "Save as".
Either you do the conversion yourself or you let the processor in the camera do it (you may be able to set a few parameters). If you let the camera do it, it will dump any data it feels it doesn't need.
 
Oh well best get rid of all my gear then.
I never have and never will shoot RAW, get it right in camera and you don't need to loads of processing.
Some shoots mean I can take 2000+ shots in a day that are wanted almost immediately, don't have time to faff about in photoshop or lightroom
want them straight from camera as much as possible
 
Oh well best get rid of all my gear then.
I never have and never will shoot RAW, get it right in camera and you don't need to loads of processing.

I'm not sure I agree with you , RAW is just the Digital Version of the 'negative'. I totally subscribe to the principle of getting everything right in camera and that includes the right focal length (for the subject), horizons, exposure, +/-EV and composition.
 
With apologies to Messrs. Barker, Cleese and Corbett...

Tall bloke carrying dSLR with enormous white lens: "I am a very (self) important photographer who only creates photographs of great importance and therefor I shoot exclusively in RAW".
Medium sized bloke with high end CSC: "I am an enthusiast who listens to him with the white lens but hedges my bets by setting the camera to RAW+JPEG. I never use the RAW files."
Little bloke with APS dSLR and a Tamron lens: "I takes the pictures and send the files to the people as wants them. What's RAW and, come to think of it, what's JPEG?"

smiley-devil07.gif
 
Oh well best get rid of all my gear then.
I never have and never will shoot RAW, get it right in camera and you don't need to loads of processing.
Some shoots mean I can take 2000+ shots in a day that are wanted almost immediately, don't have time to faff about in photoshop or lightroom
want them straight from camera as much as possible

That is the exact underlying theme of this thread, shoot in the format that works for you.
Why would you suggest selling all your gear? I'm a little perplexed at that...
 
I can see where you are at, though. From the start when I got into digital photography in 2002, I've always said that if the photo looks good straight out of the box as a JPG then it is a good photo. I still use JPG for everyday-type situations using my Lumix bridge but I have been getting into the RAW format when using my D7000 for the more experimental stuff (night time long exposure, urbex, indoors still life, etc) when I find myself being a bit more fussy with it. Since I do have a fairly powerful PC (16 gb ram, 2gb graphics, i7 processor with a 3Tb hard drive), so that leaves me with plenty of leg room when dealing with RAW.
 
That is the exact underlying theme of this thread, shoot in the format that works for you.
Why would you suggest selling all your gear? I'm a little perplexed at that...

Joke Richard, in reply to the post above mine ;)
Just getting back to normal and able to use the camera comfortably after 2 years
 
Joke Richard, in reply to the post above mine ;)
Just getting back to normal and able to use the camera comfortably after 2 years
Wow! What on earth in my post suggested that you should get rid of your gear?
I just pointed out the way digital cameras work in the way of file formats, which one you use is up to you and the way you shoot. None is better than the other.
Can I suggest you go back and read my post again (It really won't take long. :) )

PS
I come from a black and white film background, where you get as much "Information" on the film as you can at the taking stage, this gives you the best chance of producing the image you want at the printing stage.
No one ever came into my darkroom when I was dodging and burning or whatever and suggested I should "Get it right in camera", that was a given.
 
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I started out with film/slide, didn't develop but learnt
that not getting it right cost a lot in developing etc.
who wants 36 naff photos back from the printer ?
As I said to Richard a very tongue in cheek comment, I haven't shot RAW for a long time, tried it
hated it, just my view
 
I think if you're able to get 95% of the shots you want by shooting to JPEG and avoiding that time consuming faff called post processing then that's a fantastic result. Best of all, the time you've saved means you can get out there and reshoot those other 5% :)
 
I think if you're able to get 95% of the shots you want by shooting to JPEG and avoiding that time consuming faff called post processing then that's a fantastic result. Best of all, the time you've saved means you can get out there and reshoot those other 5% :)

Unless it's a wedding or some other time-critical event !
 
Oh well best get rid of all my gear then.
I never have and never will shoot RAW, get it right in camera and you don't need to loads of processing.
Some shoots mean I can take 2000+ shots in a day that are wanted almost immediately, don't have time to faff about in photoshop or lightroom
want them straight from camera as much as possible
Shooting raw isn't always about fixing something you can't "get right in camera", I always think this comment shows a lack of understanding of the raw process. You can't polish a turd (though I accept you can sometimes cover them in glitter ;)).

For me, It's simply about getting the best possible result, and the result you aspired to achieve when you took the photo which half the time wouldn't be achievable with a JPEG. This happens even when you "get it right in camera". I love to shoot towards the sun at sunset, and having the ability to pull the shadows back against the sun can make or break the image, and without that ability the shot itself wouldn't be possible. It's got nothing to do with a lack of skill of the photographer, just that the camera won't process the shot the correct way. None of mine do (I guess my artistic interpretation is different from my cameras!). What you've got to remember is you're retrieving detail you've already achieved in camera, otherwise, it wouldn't be there! You've got the shot right, the exposure is good and the shadow detail is there, but the jpeg always throws it away.

A quick example;

sunset over the yard 19th Mar 16 b by Jim, on Flickr


It's like using better quality film at no extra cost, and who wouldn't want that? The only downside being you have to achieve the final result yourself. Of course, people have different needs and its important to do whats best for you, what you shoot and what you personally want at the end, but for me the final "edit" if you want to call it that, is as important as getting the shot right to start with (and I enjoy the art of careful raw processing:))
 
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For me its really about time vs quality

If i'm shooting a wedding or similar type event where quality is paramount I'll shoot raw (or Raw + jpeg if i need a few shots quickly)... at the other end of the scale if i'm carrying out a tree survey in the day job where quality is unimportant so long as the record is clear, but I'll have maybe 5000 shots to catalogue , then i want to use Sooc jpegs not faff about with raw processing.

The other thing is burst depth - if i was shooting something like diving gannets I'd be tempted to use jpeg in order to maximise frame rate and buffer capacity

Really end of the day its just a tool and arguing that one is better than the other is like arguing that a ferrarri is better than a landrover ... on the motorway undoubtedly true, but try using a ferarri to haul 3/4 tonne of logs down a forestry track..
 
For me its really about time vs quality

If i'm shooting a wedding or similar type event where quality is paramount I'll shoot raw (or Raw + jpeg if i need a few shots quickly)... at the other end of the scale if i'm carrying out a tree survey in the day job where quality is unimportant so long as the record is clear, but I'll have maybe 5000 shots to catalogue , then i want to use Sooc jpegs not faff about with raw processing.

The other thing is burst depth - if i was shooting something like diving gannets I'd be tempted to use jpeg in order to maximise frame rate and buffer capacity

Really end of the day its just a tool and arguing that one is better than the other is like arguing that a ferrarri is better than a landrover ... on the motorway undoubtedly true, but try using a ferarri to haul 3/4 tonne of logs down a forestry track..
You see I don't think that analogy works. It's more like taking a Landrover down the track with a full tank and another Landrover with a quarter of a tank. They both do the same thing but one of them you can do a lot more with :)
 
You see I don't think that analogy works. It's more like taking a Landrover down the track with a full tank and another Landrover with a quarter of a tank. They both do the same thing but one of them you can do a lot more with :)

nah my anology was that they are both good for different things

If I used raw for the tree surveys i'd go out of my mind pointlessly processing 5000 images (and yes i know you can batch process , but even so why tie up a computer on something that could have done in camera)

Raw is best for something/jpeg is better for others - and for a lot of middle it doesnt really matter which you use

and the whole raw is best/ no it isnt/ yes it is etc argument is as pointless as arguing about nikon vs canon or film vs digital
 
nah my anology was that they are both good for different things

If I used raw for the tree surveys i'd go out of my mind pointlessly processing 5000 images (and yes i know you can batch process , but even so why tie up a computer on something that could have done in camera)

Raw is best for something/jpeg is better for others - and for a lot of middle it doesnt really matter which you use

and the whole raw is best/ no it isnt/ yes it is etc argument is as pointless as arguing about nikon vs canon or film vs digital
Oh I agree, I use JPEG for anything evidential (work) and raw for my own slow time photography, which is normally landscapes where raw excels.
 
You see I don't think that analogy works. It's more like taking a Landrover down the track with a full tank and another Landrover with a quarter of a tank. They both do the same thing but one of them you can do a lot more with :)
Not a good analogy, a full tank just lets you go further in the same way.
Jpeg is like using a Landrover (other 4x4s are available) without a difflock (I'm assuming that's a thing that exists) : for 90% of the time the school run is fine with Jpegs, but you need more to traverse a rocky outcrop in very icy weather.
There is another issue : if your processing uses slow and clunky tools (like lightroom :D ) you might as well use RAW because you're not going to save any effort doing the same stuff with your Jpegs.
Shall I get me coat?
 
the thing with jpegs is to get the right in camera so you don't need any processing ;)
 
Yup, get it right rather than polish turds! FWIW, JPEGs can be polished but not as much as raw files. As Pete pointed out, batch processing of multiple raw files is no different to setting the camera's JPEG creating soft/firmware up to do it at the taking stage.
 
Everyone should feel free to do whatever they enjoy the most or whatever works for them best. Opinions about what RAW and JPEG can and can't do are abound, but there are also some truths. JPEG has a smaller bit depth and so the first iteration naturally loses information. However, no one (?) prints from RAWs and most places these days print from JPEG so it's clearly good enough for prints (even vary large ones). For me, it's a clear choice about throwing away as little as possible until the very last step. I also choose a tool that allows me to post-process batches of images very quickly (still not as quick as straight-from-the-camera JPEG, but close) and still offers me the chance to fine tune a single image in a lot more detail.

I spent Sunday afternoon and evening taking photographs of a choir performance, indoors, at a venue in Lincoln. The performance included lighting effects during the songs, spotlights, roaming lights, coloured lights, etc. as well as significant variation in overall lighting levels. I could have shot that using JPEG, but I would have had to do colour correction on a lot of them. The dynamic range of the individual images varied hugely, the JPEGs would have all had the same rough exposure across the board, even though various parts of the choir were lit differently. Either I would have had to change my settings between each shot, or, as it turned out, I could view all the images in Lightroom and pick and choose, adjusting some in one direction and others in a different direction to get a broad range of artistic effects.

So for me personally, RAW is about choosing flexibility - getting the best shot I can at the time - but having options afterwards which would be limited if I chose JPEG.

I spent the first few months with my DSLR shooting JPEG, then JPEG+RAW, and then just RAW. When I first tried to post-process RAW files I was dismayed at how hard it was, how long it took, and how bad they were compared to the JPEGs. But it taught me a lot about exposure, dynamic range, depth of field, framing, etc. With JPEGs the temptation is to take it, publish it, move on. With RAW you're forced to make choices about the output, and that isn't always easy. After some time trying Canon's DPP and then Raw Therapee I finally settled on Lightroom, which suits my needs and fits within my workflow. If I go to a family event I might switch to JPEG, but mostly, I stick to RAW and just bulk process. This is because I'm lazy and remembering to change from RAW to JPEG and back is annoying to me, not because RAW is right for every situation.

That final point is key too - it's not a one time choice. You don't have to choose to shoot always JPEG, or always RAW. The situation, camera and time-to-publish can all have an impact moment to moment.
 
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I used to shoot whole weddings with a paid of Fuji S5 cameras set to large Jpegs. Had no problems whatsoever.

Shoot what you want if you like Jpeg cool. If you like RAW and thereby lose days and days of your life stuck in front of a computer then go for it.

I process RAW files for a number of clients and without outsourcing, they probably would go back to photographing Jpeg. The main reason they shoot RAW is because they deliver 16bit Tiffs to clients.
 
If you like RAW and thereby lose days and days of your life stuck in front of a computer then go for it.

As I said above, people should shoot whatever they feel comfortable with, and enjoy, but there's no need to mislead people. I processed all the photographs from the choir performance in around 2 hours. Much of that was used getting them off the cards, onto the computer, selecting the shots I wanted to keep, deleting the ones I didn't want, and then uploading the handful I kept. Only a part of it was actually processing the RAW images to get the best from them.
 
I, like most, shoot raw nearly all the time. And on some weekends or a dog walk, I just feel I can't be bothered and just take photos for fun in jpg. I must admit it feels really lazy but it does make a pleasant change not to think about processing.

One company I work for wants only high quality jpgs. I photograph for them and hand the disk over. They don't want 2,500 x 25Mb raw files on the day and much prefer 5Mb high quality jpgs as they print then sell often within 30 minutes of the photograph being taken.

Nowt wrong in ignoring raw but at the end of the day, I much prefer "making" my own images. Although sometimes tedious, I find it much more satisfying converting/producing my own jpgs.
 
I, like most, shoot raw nearly all the time.

I think that you'll find the vast majority of digital camera users, let's say 99.9%, use JPEG and wouldn't know RAW if it bit them.

I hasten to add, I'm not trying to be score points here, just trying to keep this in the real world. There are many committed photographers on a site like TP but they are a tiny minority of all the people who use cameras. Moreover, many of those other users will photograph for very serious purposes such as science, engineering or forensic recording. I don't pretend to know what their preferred format would be but I'd accept odds that it's JPEG.

We just need to be realistic when we throw around terms such as "like most", because they are misleading if you don't state the context.

I will now vacate the building.
:coat: :exit:
 
For me, It's simply about getting the best possible result, and the result you aspired to achieve when you took the photo which half the time wouldn't be achievable with a JPEG. This happens even when you "get it right in camera".

You could if you had a camera that could adjust this for you, boost shadows etc. Load custom curves etc.
 
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