Idiots with guns......

pwhysall said:
However, the inverse is true for a Shotgun Certificate, where basically you're telling the police that you're getting a shotgun and then they have to come up with a concrete reason to say "no".
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I didn't know that (obviously!). Either way, they still have a record of who has what and we don't find ourselves in the ridiculous position the US is in.


Steve.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Twenty four misses? Twenty four???? Even I shoot better than that ;)
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Someone was probably using a MAC10 - most of the missing rounds will be in the ceiling
 
Steve Smith said:
I didn't know that (obviously!). Either way, they still have a record of who has what and we don't find ourselves in the ridiculous position the US is in.
.
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Apart from the various illegally held arms in circulation , and of course bows and cross bows.

The problem in the US isnt the right to bear arms per se - there are loads of other countries that have a sizeable number of armed civilians but don't have the same level of gun crime
 
pwhysall said:
Half right. For a weapon that requires a Firearms Certificate, you're completely correct.

However, the inverse is true for a Shotgun Certificate, where basically you're telling the police that you're getting a shotgun and then they have to come up with a concrete reason to say "no". You do, however, have to have a properly installed (i.e. not visible to the casual visitor and not easily removable; in practice this means out of sight and bolted to a structural wall) gun box, if you wish to keep shotguns at home.

(To complicate things further, there are certain shotguns for which you require a Firearms Certificate, namely those with a capacity of more than 3 rounds)
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Basically that's correct. There is an underlying right for anyone who has a permanent address in this country to own a shotgun (issued under S.2 of the Act) but would be owners of rifles need to justify their aquisition.

Certificate holders need to satisfy the police that they are of good character (even motoring offences can be enough reason for a certificate to be refused or revoked), that they are not likely to constitute a danger to the public (including themselves) which makes life difficult for anyone with any history of mental health problems and that they don't drink to excess. Rifles (which fall under S.1 of the Act) are always subject to extra conditions and many police forces are now insisting on all sorts of extra requirements that they have no legal right to insist upon - but other forces are very different, the whole situation is very confused and inconsistent among different forces). S.1 certificate holders not only need to justify the possession by good reason, but also need to have lawful authority to shoot over land- without this they are limited to shooting at approved rifle ranges, which is a bit like having a driving licence to drive only automatics.

And to complicate it a bit more, there are a few types of shotgun ammo that can only be held on a S.1 certificate too.
viv1969 said:
I don't know why some people struggle to admit that guns are primarily weapons.
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Because they aren't. You clearly have no personal experience.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Because they aren't. You clearly have no personal experience.
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Ah, the old "you know nothing" chestnut.
I can read.
Researching the history of firearms (clue is in the name), isn't difficult.
 
Cobra said:
All candidates for this years Darwin award.!

Which reminds me, 2013's are in, and a very appropriate 3rd goes to..............................

Third Place

After stepping around a marked police patrol car parked at the front door,
a man walked into H&J Leather & Firearms intent on robbing the store.
The shop was full of customers and a uniformed officer was standing at the counter.
Upon seeing the officer, the would-be robber announced a hold-up and fired a few wild shots from a target pistol.


The officer and a clerk promptly returned fire, and several customers also drew their guns and fired.
The robber was pronounced dead at the scene by Paramedics.
Crime scene investigators located 47 expended cartridge cases in the shop.
The subsequent autopsy revealed 23 gunshot wounds.
Ballistics identified rounds from 7 different weapons. No one else was hurt.
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THIS is why disarming the law abiding masses can have drastic consequences. Had this been here, it could have been a different story. The lawful people in that shop would have been unarmed (and helpless) and could have succumbed to deadly fire. Criminals will do bad things whether it's lawful or not, us law abiding citizens don't have that luxury. You disarm the masses and all you do is make us weaker than the criminals who'll get guns anyway.
 
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trencheel303 said:
You disarm the masses and all you do is make us weaker than the criminals who'll get guns anyway.
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Nonsense. The vast majority of criminals here do not carry guns because no one else has them. If there was a need for the public to be armed, the police would arm themselves before the public would be allowed to be armed.

In a gun to gun confrontation, it is highly likely that one person will be killed... and it's a 50% chance it will be the 'good guy'.

Our system of no guns for self defence has worked very well for the last seventy plus years and is a much better situation that that in the USA where thet have forty times the amount of deaths by shooting when worked out per capita.


Steve.
 
I remember a case in MK years ago where someone tried to hold up a convenience store with a sawn off shotgun - one of the customers smashed him round the head from behind with a frozen leg of lamb !
 
0:26 seconds, shotgun round rolling off the desk, that would scare the crap out of me too.
 
guns have no place in civilised society, yes criminals get hold of them and use them but they make up a tiny minority and generally shoot each other. I would never want to live in a society where you never know who might have a gun in their pocket etc and might just be having a bad day. The yanks have lost the plot and I don't even think they have a chance of getting it back I feel great pity from them they live in a country where money is power and the lesser just get kicked to the kerb for "under achieving"
 
The Americans do not have a chance of getting back to 'normality' as the country is flooded with guns and their constitutional right to own them has turned into a kind of religion for many.


Steve.
 
big soft moose said:
I remember a case in MK years ago where someone tried to hold up a convenience store with a sawn off shotgun - one of the customers smashed him round the head from behind with a frozen leg of lamb !
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Did it hurt Pete? Can we see the scar? :p :D
 
I would never even want to hold a gun until I'd had some sort of intensive training. It's scary that these people can freely wield guns.
 
Eddzz!! said:
I would never even want to hold a gun until I'd had some sort of intensive training. It's scary that these people can freely wield guns.
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I agree. It's like giving people cars without worrying about learning tio drive.


Steve.
 
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