If You Started Again Today...

To answer the OP, I'd just have the Fuji kit I have now. The balance of ease of use, size and performance is great. I still also have a Canon setup which I really need to sell as it just doesn't get used. A 1D4 and 1Ds2 are great bits of kit (with a 7D backup), they really sing with lenses that the Fuji system doesn't have yet which is the main drawback of the system. However in the main the lenses available meet my needs. I do miss the Canon 70-200f2.8 II, and really that is what I still use occasionally when I bring out the DSLR. AF is far more accurate on the Fuji, AF tracking isn't quite there in some particular circumstances. In some uses it is far better, I can track with the 56f1.2 and hit every single shot with a subject coming towards me in good light no problem, I'd be dumping a significant amount of shots with the same use on DSLR. Battery life has never been an issue, but I don't chimp. I bought 5 extra batteries going in because of all the horror stories, but have never needed them all. Shot 2k+ shots on two batteries at RIAT this year easily enough, with IS enabled for a fair chunk as well. That's for the day with high fps used as shooting low shutter speed for props a lot.


On your website the picture of the at the Prescott Speed Hillclimb, blue car going uphill to the left and you can read the dials on the dash - what did you take that with? I'm guessing you were not driving alongside at the same speed, right? They are all really really nice pictures, but I kept going back to that one for another look :)
 
On your website the picture of the at the Prescott Speed Hillclimb, blue car going uphill to the left and you can read the dials on the dash - what did you take that with? I'm guessing you were not driving alongside at the same speed, right? They are all really really nice pictures, but I kept going back to that one for another look :)

This one?:


Autumn Classic 2012 @ Prescott Speed Hill Climb
by JJ, on Flickr

That's with the 1Ds2 and 70-200. I haven't revisited that type of shot with the Fuji yet really.
 
This one?:


Autumn Classic 2012 @ Prescott Speed Hill Climb
by JJ, on Flickr

That's with the 1Ds2 and 70-200. I haven't revisited that type of shot with the Fuji yet really.


Yeah! I couldn't stop staring, went back several times to look some more. Do you have a wider shot of the car too? If you do take more images like that and post them on here tag me in if you remember - I'd like to see more.

I love Motorsport, been to a few F1 races, been to brands hatch a few times, used to go to a lot of small events, rally cross a bit, even lawnmower racing! I lived not far from Goodwood years ago, drove the track in a range of cars from single seaters, average road cars and a few sports cars too, never racing, just the experience - they get grumpy if they think you are trying to race. I used to go to the festival of speed every year but not been for a while, always loved the hill climb there. I've never taken any pictures though, always just enjoyed being there. I might see if there's anything around here I could go along to and try taking some pictures. Even if it seems just banger racing - I'll do some googling, I've my been inspired :)
 
Im at my most contented at the moment with Sony a6000 with 3 lenses and Nikon D7200 with just the 18-140.
Im enjoying photography more now and not thinking what to buy which i was always doing for 2 years
 
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There was a lot of discussion with others but not specific comments about the cameras. You said 'if you could move' you would, I wondered why you can't. I wasn't sure if it was the issues you mentioned with speed and battery capacity that stopped you, or the cost, the amount you have invested in Canon, or other reasons. As so many full time professionals are using Fuji cameras it doesn't make obvious sense to me that the product simply isn't up to the job, otherwise people wouldn't be using the product. Therefore I wondered what the 'if' was - I wasn't asking to annoy you!





You misunderstand my reasons for asking I guess Phil, this is just conversation and helping me with my thoughts and learning. I have enough experiences of life to realise there are no perfect systems for anything really, its a bit like asking a load of people what car they have and why, I would get plenty of different responses and it wouldn't give me a specific answer. And it would lead to a lot more arguments!! It would however give me some useful tidbits of information I can take away. It's very easy to just be a maverick and go it alone, get on with it and make all the mistakes without even attempting to learn, but I prefer to do all I can to make the best decisions for my needs.

You may think asking questions is the wrong way to go about it, but as it's not dictating my decisions it isn't harming them, it's improving my knowledge - that's not a bad thing. The worst thing it's doing is wasting my time, but I've spent much of the day stuck watching my poorly son and being unable to leave his room, I couldn't have done much more with my time other than read or sit on my iPad.

I believe I can learn from people's mistakes, if enough people said a certain camera, lens, light, tripod etc was a waste of money or didn't do work as they thought I could save money. You yourself want to switch brand but there are reasons you haven't yet, that's interesting for a number of reasons - both the desire to switch and the reasons you can't yet. People absolutely can learn from that. If all the Fuji switchers suddenly found an issue and went back to Canon I bet you would want to know why.

I of course agree 'people take pictures', but you have to admit it's a lot easier to do so with a camera in your hand than a sketch pad and pencil! If it didn't matter what you used you may we'll have switched to Fuji by now, but it does matter to you, don't you think your reasons for not being able to use one system over another may also apply to someone else? I thought sharing knowledge was the way it worked round here, you've argued that the Fuji system isn't of the right quality for you personally so obviously for certain situations it wouldn't be the best tool. On one hand you are stating you can shoot the same image with any camera and lens, on the other you are arguing the Fuji system is frustrating and doesn't perform as well as your Canon system. As far as I'm concerned that's learning. My needs are different to yours, once my own wedding is over I don't plan on going within 100m of a wedding ever again, I certainly won't be filming any!

It's really easy to say study people, learn etc, I'm really trying my best, I find myself watching people in a totally different way, I'm reading about and playing with light, I'm not sure what else I can do if I'm honest. I'd love to know, I get given the. Ames of books to read so I buy them, websites to visit so I visit, skills to research so I look them up and start to try to understand them. If I ask questions I get told I should be learning, but as far as I'm concerned I am learning, every day I know more about this stuff than I did the day before, I know there isn't a magic bullet and I know I'm just going to have to get on with it and learn how it works. I just like to know how others learnt, if there's anything extra I can do, I want to make sense of it all. I had people telling me several different ways to do things, stuff I read didn't make sense, stuff I watched didn't make sense, I couldn't explain why. Then a local photographer visited and we discussed what I was struggling with, he talked me through it and suddenly it clicked, I understood. I wasn't being awkward, I'm not thick, it just didn't make sense and I had good reason to be questioning.

So I think it's important to try to learn in every way I can, I respect you all and take in all the advice and information, I'm genuinely grateful for any advice any of you share. Any tips, advice or support is very much appreciated, if anyone wants to help me learn I'm keen to get on - I have real reasons to want to get 'good at this stuff' as quickly as I can I still have the same equipment I had yesterday and the day before and the day before that, I'm not rushing out to buy stuff I don't need, I just like to have an idea of what I will need to buy to take things to the next level. At some point everybody invested in some equipment, I don't think it's a bad thing to talk about it a bit in advance.

But ultimately what I've REALLY learnt from this thread is that most people bought stuff they didn't need at some point, and as the stuff is flippin expensive that's a big lesson to take away. I don't want to waste money, so before I buy something I want I have to make sure I actually need it, finding out if other people needed it is helpful. I don't want 34 lenses, I thought I'd need a couple of decent prime lenses and one nice zoom, I'd also like a nice small prime as a walkabout lens. Ultimately as I said in my first post I didn't want to invest in Canon if something like Fuji would be a good option for me, I like the smaller Fuji body and the tilt up screen, with a small lens I could be more discrete with street photography. Or I could buy a better Canon body. No rush as I keep saying, but I won't stick with my current camera and one lens for the next 5 years!

Thanks for the discussion, it's really interesting :)

Don't take me too seriously, and believe me that I genuinely admire your thirst for knowledge.

I'll try to be succinct, IMHO CSC's aren't quite there yet.

As I alluded to, any single point can be argued by X camera has great AF, xx camera has a brilliant evf, xxx camera has fantastic DR etc etc. But the fact remains that there isn't one single camera that has it all yet.

Whereas, it's easy to pick up a DSLR that does everything you'd want sometimes at a bargain price.

This is a snapshot in time though, so just like 5 years ago Canon crop cameras were well out of the race, and 20 years ago when Nikon AF was behind the curve etc, the only constant is change.

Theres a few pro's shooting CSC's, but given the actual percentage, you have to ask 'why', and it's generally something specific to the individual, if they were really good enough they'd have a bigger share of the market. And again, I'll say one day they will. I love using my Fuji for all the reasons I hated using medium format, but I don't take it on a 'job', because the DSLR works so much 'better' for what I want to achieve. Why make life difficult?

As a studio camera, the 6d is missing nothing, at a great price, couple it with some quality lenses and it's a beautiful machine to make pictures with.
 
Is that because it didn't get the shots? It's always interesting hearing 'the other side' when all ive been reading is the positive of the X-T2, it's good to hear the full story

Yes, I didn't try tracking - just point and shoot as if I was 'street photographing' or someone just caught my attention at a wedding.


Is that because of the general build quality or have you been unlucky?[/QUOTE]
I got lucky with D750s - they went back and forth four times before being sorted out to my satisfaction (unlike a lot of stories I've read and been told)

My main reason for saying I'd stick with the Canon's is that the Nikons were supposed to focus faster, more accurately but as I've learnt, this is just user error usually. I have on occasions, used the extra dynamic range available (D750 vs 5D3) but, it hasn't been a game changer - I've not had people flocking to me due to the extra DR I can offer.

Where Canon are streets ahead is customer service - I had gold membership and would send something for service and get it back within a week reliably. With Nikon, they aren't even sure they've received my camera or lens within that time frame!

For someone who uses their photographic equipment for a living, this is far more important than a possible scenario where extra dynamic range could provide an advantage.
 
Don't take me too seriously.....

Oh don't worry I know you are just a grumpy old git, but I really enjoy conversing with you so I keep coming back for more! It's good to get a lot of opinions, I like that, I want to know what people think - both of the way to do it and the way they did it. It's frustrating when a response to a question is 'learn' as that's kind of what I'm asking a lot of the time - learn how, where's the source material, or is it just trial and error after error.

As a studio camera, the 6d is missing nothing, at a great price, couple it with some quality lenses and it's a beautiful machine to make pictures with.

This is what I wanted to hear, I knew you had a 6D and price wise it seems amazing value for money for what it has, especially when you compare it to a 5D III, even compared to the IV I think it stands up proud. The only thing I'd want extra is the second memory card slot but that's a minor thing. Naturally as I have a Canon camera my eye has been caught by the range, and naturally you start to look at the top. I just wasn't sure I actually needed to go for a 5D when the 6D looks to be such good value.

You say its missing nothing, do you truly mean that or is there anything you think it could improve on? If the 6D II was coming out soon and you were asked what you'd like to see on it what would you reply?

What I didn't want to do is carry on down the Canon route and then wish I'd gone with something else. I realise the lenses hold their value well so it should not the biggest problem in the world of course - some people don't have food in the cupboard and of course considering what I want to do with my photography some people will lose their child, so losing a few pounds on a camera suddenly seems like a pathetic first world problem.



Where Canon are streets ahead is customer service - I had gold membership and would send something for service and get it back within a week reliably. With Nikon, they aren't even sure they've received my camera or lens within that time frame.

I've not heard of gold membership, is that something you buy?
 
What I'd like to see in the 6dII is improved AF and 2 card slots.

What we will get is improved AF dual pixel AF for video and a higher and cleaner MP count. Because they're canons direction of travel.

Unfortunately Canon have a history of strongly defining product lines, so it'll not get twin cards because it'll steal too many 5d customers.

The AF will improve, but carefully because of the above.

To be honest, if the 2nd hand 5dIII price drops in line with expectations, I'll be in the market for one of those rather than the 6dII. but that's the camera Canon think I should have.
 
I started with film a long time ago but when I went digital for good I chose Pentax because of value for money and maximum compatibility with vintage lenses. That was OK for about 5 years but after I got a small Oly PEN with the double zoom kit I started to question the DSLR choice. Another couple years later I now leave the Pentax stuff on the shelf (already sold some of it). Yes Pentax has better high ISO quality but frankly everything else is in favor of the mirrorless system. I chose micro four thirds rather than Sony/Fuji because lenses are smaller too. I shoot street photos as a passion but often with an even smaller compact camera. Otherwise I like almost any other genre from travel/landscape to portrait/event/family photos.
 
Yeah! I couldn't stop staring, went back several times to look some more. Do you have a wider shot of the car too? If you do take more images like that and post them on here tag me in if you remember - I'd like to see more.

I love Motorsport, been to a few F1 races, been to brands hatch a few times, used to go to a lot of small events, rally cross a bit, even lawnmower racing! I lived not far from Goodwood years ago, drove the track in a range of cars from single seaters, average road cars and a few sports cars too, never racing, just the experience - they get grumpy if they think you are trying to race. I used to go to the festival of speed every year but not been for a while, always loved the hill climb there. I've never taken any pictures though, always just enjoyed being there. I might see if there's anything around here I could go along to and try taking some pictures. Even if it seems just banger racing - I'll do some googling, I've my been inspired :)

I'm lucky that I'm only just down the road from Prescott Speed Hill Climb, it's a really good day out there and you get so close to the track and there paddock is awesome. I didn't have a good full shot of the car:


Autumn Classic 2012 @ Prescott Speed Hill Climb
by JJ, on Flickr

The full set from back then is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jj_glos/albums/72157631715844807

There are many more sets on my Flickr. I don't just upload the perfect shots as I do it for fun, so there are plenty of so so shots to skim through :D
 
Yeah! I couldn't stop staring, went back several times to look some more. Do you have a wider shot of the car too? If you do take more images like that and post them on here tag me in if you remember - I'd like to see more.

I love Motorsport, been to a few F1 races, been to brands hatch a few times, used to go to a lot of small events, rally cross a bit, even lawnmower racing! I lived not far from Goodwood years ago, drove the track in a range of cars from single seaters, average road cars and a few sports cars too, never racing, just the experience - they get grumpy if they think you are trying to race. I used to go to the festival of speed every year but not been for a while, always loved the hill climb there. I've never taken any pictures though, always just enjoyed being there. I might see if there's anything around here I could go along to and try taking some pictures. Even if it seems just banger racing - I'll do some googling, I've my been inspired :)


Bit of a trek down from North Devon but the hill climbs at Wiscombe Park near Honiton are worth the trip, especially (IMO) when the VSCC come out to play (usually early May) with plenty of elderly exotics (and more mundane) being thrown up the hill with little regard for their value!
 
Bit of a trek down from North Devon but the hill climbs at Wiscombe Park near Honiton are worth the trip, especially (IMO) when the VSCC come out to play (usually early May) with plenty of elderly exotics (and more mundane) being thrown up the hill with little regard for their value!

Not been for many years, but the hill climbs at Hartland Quay would probably be more convenient, though not as big as Wiscombe. They normally top and tail the season, so guess the next one will be in march. The scenery is pretty spectacular too, some of the best coastline in the southwest for photography.

There used to be a new year hillclimb at Porlock, first sunday in january, but I'm not sure that is still running these days, a quick search didn't throw up anything.
 
Difficult...

My main camera is now a Walker Titan SF, and I wouldn't want to change, but they are no longer made. Therefore, if starting again now I'd have to switch to something less suitable (and, no, they hardly ever appear on the second hand market). I'd probably spend rather more and get an Ebony (just out of production, but do turn up second hand) or a Canham DLC 45.

My second camera offers a little more scope, as it's a Mamiya RZ67, for which I have 50mm, 110mm and 75mm shift lenses. If starting now I'd go for the same body and magazines, the same 110mm lens, but would buy the TS adaptor and one of the short barrel lenses rather than the 75mm. And probably wouldn't bother with the 50mm.

My third "snapshot" camera is a Sony a7rii, and I'd still choose this. BUT I use it with the lenses that came from my 35mm OM system, and I would want the same lenses, so I'd be scouring the second hand shops to replace them.

So basically happy with the system I've got. But I have been over 50 years in the building of it, and most of what I actually use is no longer in production but still suits me better than anything that actually is made.
 
I would also stick with my Fuji kit over the FF Nikon kit I had, reasons, weight, cost, Fuji glass especially the 56mm f/1.2 that is fixed to my XT1, I will pick up an XT2 next week while overseas.

I still have a Nikon F5 and a couple of primes from my film days which I still like to use and a Blad 500cm, 40mm, 80mm & 150mm which I got for my 21st birthday that gets the odd run out too.
 
Bit of a trek down from North Devon but the hill climbs at Wiscombe Park near Honiton are worth the trip, especially (IMO) when the VSCC come out to play (usually early May) with plenty of elderly exotics (and more mundane) being thrown up the hill with little regard for their value!

I love the VSCC events, lots of great cars :)


VSCC @ Prescott 2016
by JJ, on Flickr
 
What I'd like to see in the 6dII is improved AF and 2 card slots.

What we will get is improved AF dual pixel AF for video and a higher and cleaner MP count. Because they're canons direction of travel.

Unfortunately Canon have a history of strongly defining product lines, so it'll not get twin cards because it'll steal too many 5d customers.

The AF will improve, but carefully because of the above.

To be honest, if the 2nd hand 5dIII price drops in line with expectations, I'll be in the market for one of those rather than the 6dII. but that's the camera Canon think I should have.

I did see a lot of similarities between the 6D and 5D III, in some ways the 6 is better with the newer tech - wifi for instance. Many companies struggle with this stuff, if you improve a product lower in the range you can't make it too good or you lose your customers for the top end product. There will always be people who buy the higher end product regardless, but others would consider the lower price product does all they need and saves them a lot of money to spend on something else. At some point performance levels get so good that very few people really need to buy anything better, they just think they do. They once did just fine with a vastly inferior product of course.

This is especially true with consumer products like computers and televisions, we don't really need 4K and we really don't need 8k sets that will be flowing along soon, the companies are very good at making us think we do. For me I have a nice but bottom of the range camera, it works for me, it does what I need, if I can improve my photography and get to a reasonable practical level being happy with the majority of my pictures then any camera I move on to is going to offer me quite a significant improvement in quality, performance and features. It's also fun to look at what I could buy in the future, I'm spoilt for choice and still not sure which direction I'll go in. As you rightly said others paths are different to mine, but I like to see who benefits from what equipment and who finds a certain feature useful or pointless depending on their use case. For portraits I will need different things to someone who enjoys Motorsport photography, unless it's a particularly fast toddler...



Bit of a trek down from North Devon but the hill climbs at Wiscombe Park near Honiton are worth the trip, especially (IMO) when the VSCC come out to play (usually early May) with plenty of elderly exotics (and more mundane) being thrown up the hill with little regard for their value!

Thanks, I'm being really lazy and I could look around to see what is available, I didn't know of any events down this way, I'd never needed to look I guess. Honiton isn't too bad for a drive, I love it down that way - nearly moved to just outside Honiton, down in Farway, looks like you are heading into Middle Earth as you head down from Honiton. Still considering heading that way in a few years, especially if the people making the bad decisions get there way and basically close Barnstaple hospital, I'm not happy at the prospect at living over an hour from an A&E, needed it too many times in the past few years and they've saved my son's life twice so I don't consider it safe to not be able to get basic emergency care. Anyway sorry I'm off on a rant!
I will definitely look up Wiscombe Park. I'd be really interested if others were going to any local events too, would be nice to meet people - I'd be going alone, friends and family do not share my interests!



Not been for many years, but the hill climbs at Hartland Quay would probably be more convenient, though not as big as Wiscombe. They normally top and tail the season, so guess the next one will be in march. The scenery is pretty spectacular too, some of the best coastline in the southwest for photography.

There used to be a new year hillclimb at Porlock, first sunday in january, but I'm not sure that is still running these days, a quick search didn't throw up anything.

Thanks, I'll look up Hartland Quay and Porlock. Not been to an event in ages, haven't even thought about it until I started seeing the really great photos on here, now I feel the need to go again :)
 
As I started as a ten year old I progressed as fast as I could Processing and contact printing my first film. (2 1/4 x 3 1/4) by 16 I had replaced my first two cameras with a very capable Ensign selfix ll with Ross express lens. my next purchase was a 1/4 plate TP ruby reflex. In the army while in Hong Kong,I bought a pocketable folding Agfa Solinette ll .On leaving the army and as a student of photography I was required to get a Rolleiflex. but mostly used large format.
This seemed to be a natural progress.
I would find it hard to establish such a natural progression today, that would steadily develop technical and seeing skills, by using available digital equipment.
It seems that today's young photographers have to start at a gallop and perhaps waste a lot of money to little purpose.
 
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Thanks, I'll look up Hartland Quay and Porlock. Not been to an event in ages, haven't even thought about it until I started seeing the really great photos on here, now I feel the need to go again :)
Just missed the last hill climb at Hartland, it was on Sunday. I'd have gone but was at a Ryder Cup wake BBQ
 
Difficult...

My main camera is now a Walker Titan SF, and I wouldn't want to change, but they are no longer made. Therefore, if starting again now I'd have to switch to something less suitable (and, no, they hardly ever appear on the second hand market). I'd probably spend rather more and get an Ebony (just out of production, but do turn up second hand) or a Canham DLC 45.

I had a look at the Walker Titan - that's quite a camera! I'd admire anyone who can produce pictures using equipment like that, I thought it was hard enough to use a DSLR in manual mode. There was a Walker Titan XL that sold on eBay at end of August of £627, so I can see they are hardly flooding the market.


My second camera offers a little more scope, as it's a Mamiya RZ67, for which I have 50mm, 110mm and 75mm shift lenses. If starting now I'd go for the same body and magazines, the same 110mm lens, but would buy the TS adaptor and one of the short barrel lenses rather than the 75mm. And probably wouldn't bother with the 50mm.

Something I've wondered do most people who have cameras like the Mamiya use a film back, digital back or both? Is there an even split? Do film users frown upon people attaching a digital back to such a camera?

My third "snapshot" camera is a Sony a7rii, and I'd still choose this. BUT I use it with the lenses that came from my 35mm OM system, and I would want the same lenses, so I'd be scouring the second hand shops to replace them.

So basically happy with the system I've got. But I have been over 50 years in the building of it, and most of what I actually use is no longer in production but still suits me better than anything that actually is made.

It's great that you have carefully collected such a wonderful range of equipment that you enjoy using. It's an interesting discussion to get people to think about starting again, some find it easy to answer, some wouldn't change a thing, she would happily jump ship and feel they went in the wrong direction.
 
I would find it hard to establish such a natural progression today, that would steadily develop technical and seeing skills, by using available digital equipment.

Yes, it's very different. I've seriously considered film, I even have a very basic developing kit that's never been used - it probably isn't any use though - but I'm just not sure it's worth doing in my case. I'm not excited by it, and I don't think I'd do anything with it, it would be more an exercise to say I've done it, which seems pointless really. I'd also probably spend more on equipment I neither wanted or needed.

I do think it is a great way to learn and understand photography, and it gives a different perspective, you have to wait to see if you got the exposure right, the shot in focus, the composure as you wanted it. If you missed you wouldn't get a second chance to get that photograph in most cases. Of course that last bit can apply to digital as well, but the rest of it doesn't, you can go again instantly, but you can also fire off dozens of shots to give yourself a chance of getting it right.

For most of us though that's exactly why we love it, we enjoy a different aspect of photography, you enjoy it too of course but you enjoy being a lot more hands on with the images once you've made the pictures.

It seems that today's young photographers have to start at a gallop and perhaps waste a lot of money to little purpose.

Yup, that's why I asked and found it all so interesting. I'm not allowed to buy anything until after our wedding in May, I don't think I'd be allowed to go online to place an order straight after the reception either! So it's stopped me rushing, and that's a good thing, I can take time to really honk about what I want and which direction.


Just missed the last hill climb at Hartland, it was on Sunday. I'd have gone but was at a Ryder Cup wake BBQ
. Last as in this year, or last as in that's it, no more ever?
 
I'm not sure I've got where I'm going yet, equipment-wise, and I'm sure I've spent less altogether than some folks have spent on a single lens, but knowing what I know now I'd buy a D700, a couple of primes, and maybe a carry round zoom and stick with that for a few years whilst I got the hang of it all. As it happens, I've got a D7100 and a couple of primes, and a carry round zoom - but I've got a bunch of other stuff, and I've sold a bunch more other stuff, on the journey thus far.
 
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