If you've had pics nicked...

The moral is don't post anything on Flickr unless your willing for it to turn up somewhere else. It doesn't sound from the video if he's tried to recover any money from anywhere, wonder why.
 
Ash, I'm afraid I've no idea what the cliche' debate is, however this is a quote from the blog by Lee

There is no way to know for sure but I bet if Noam had watermarked his images from the start, none of this would have happened including the Glimpse Magazine cover. The people that were looking for “free” images online would not have contacted him if his images were watermarked, they would have simply found another image to use. By allowing his images to be public, Noam has gotten to experience something that many artists would give anything for. In my opinion, this experience is worth more than any advertising agency could pay for the image. Noam has made almost no money on these images so far, but I believe the money will come.

And I agree with that totally :)
 
Oh, I thought we were going to go down the road that it's pointless to defend our work and all creative texts, for music to photos should be free...

Who is Lee?

Noam could be a fairly isolated case. His issue was not with the public use for pop-art; his issue was with commercial use, and not being involved in that use. Which scenario would have benefited him more is purely speculation. How do we know if we had not used a watermark it would not be a popular image? At least, he might have made just as much money from it, surely?

We're assuming the money will come...only time will tell :/. Though I think that's trying to see the light side to a lot of mess - if you're chasing all sorts of institutions using your photo without credit.

And not everyone is after that 'artist's dream'. That's a completely different intent from making money (or at least for some it is.) Additionally, it was only by luck that he found his image was being used - so it can't be relied on to work in your favour. If it anything to me it just highlights the creator's ego and how precious we are of being acknowledged for our works.

And this pretty much is the free culture debate. :D
 
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It doesnt say what license setting he had on the picture.
 
The moral is don't post anything on Flickr unless your willing for it to turn up somewhere else. It doesn't sound from the video if he's tried to recover any money from anywhere, wonder why.

not just flickr, i know of an equestrian photographer in guildford that has recently shut up shop for good due to the amount of people ripping off his photos. even massively watermarked people dont give a monkeys these days, itll go straight on facebook etc.
 
not just flickr, i know of an equestrian photographer in guildford that has recently shut up shop for good due to the amount of people ripping off his photos. even massively watermarked people dont give a monkeys these days, itll go straight on facebook etc.

Why would that make a photographer shut up shop?

I don't know where this modern photographer's delusion of income potential comes from but there seems to be a heap of people out there tearing their hair out thinking that the half dozen pics of the horserider/cyclist/footballer etc that they posted on Flickr and have now ended up on the subject/"thief"'s Facebook page could have made them a living/put their children through uni etc.

None is ever, ever going to pay you for images to put on Facebook so these aren't "lost sales" they are free advertising.

Spend more time worrying about how good your images are and less time worrying about who is going to use them on Facebook and you might find that come birthday/christmas etc the requests for print sales and the like come rolling in to the email address you tastefully watermarked onto the images.
 
Why would that make a photographer shut up shop?

I don't know where this modern photographer's delusion of income potential comes from but there seems to be a heap of people out there tearing their hair out thinking that the half dozen pics of the horserider/cyclist/footballer etc that they posted on Flickr and have now ended up on the subject/"thief"'s Facebook page could have made them a living/put their children through uni etc.

None is ever, ever going to pay you for images to put on Facebook so these aren't "lost sales" they are free advertising.

Spend more time worrying about how good your images are and less time worrying about who is going to use them on Facebook and you might find that come birthday/christmas etc the requests for print sales and the like come rolling in to the email address you tastefully watermarked onto the images.

here we go again.

who said they were posted on flickr? this guy was a professional who covered at a particular venue, people who went to this particular venue consistantly ripped off photos from his site rather than purchasing them.

free publicity is all well and good but there comes a point where people take the **** and it earns you ZERO money.
 
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I'm afraid watermarking your images is no guarantee, theres several on this forum who have found their watermarked images elswhere, often with a new watermark put on by the thief.
The problem with watermarks is you have to make it big enough and obvious enough to make it hard to remove, this then tends to spoil the image from a viewing point. But to say it wouldn't have happened if they had been watermarked is sadly rubbish, if somebody wants it they'll take it if they can see it.
 
here we go again.

who said they were posted on flickr? this guy was a professional who covered at a particular venue, people who went to this particular venue consistantly ripped off photos from his site rather than purchasing them.

free publicity is all well and good but there comes a point where people take the **** and it earns you ZERO money.

Sorry my post was more a two part thing, I meant to ask why having a few pics nicked - which wouldn't have been sales anyway - would make a pro tog give up the business?

Then when I said "this modern photographer's delusion" I wasn't referring to the equestrian tog, more the hordes of photographers that seem to think that just because they took a pic of someone, that person is going to be willing to pay money for the use of that image. They won't, they'll just either nick it or if they can't/it's too watermarked they'll use someone else's image.

In response to what Swanseamale47 said, if you have put a large enough watermark on images that it would stop someone using it then chances are you have not only ruined that image but used your name/business name/url to make yourself look like a crap tog. No matter how good an image, if it has an intrusive watermark people don't see a nice image with a big watermark, they'll just see a big watermark.
Also, I don't see the point in using watermarking to try and inform people that the image is copyrighted. You could have your image watermarked with "unauthorised use of this image will result in prosecution" and people would still use it.
A small email address or url along the bottom of the image that people can use when they are looking for prints etc would be much better.
If someone wants to pinch your image and thinks that even this spoils it and wants to crop it out, they'll do so. But that's still not a lost sale. It's someone that might just remember the url that they cropped off and pass it on to their friends who ask where they got the amazing picture of themselves.
 
In response to what Swanseamale47 said, if you have put a large enough watermark on images that it would stop someone using it then chances are you have not only ruined that image but used your name/business name/url to make yourself look like a crap tog. No matter how good an image, if it has an intrusive watermark people don't see a nice image with a big watermark, they'll just see a big watermark.

I thought that you were a Press photographer?

If you are, then you should understand exactly why some images, especially newsworthy ones, are watermarked without dismissing the whole practice.

Likewise if you've got a decent enough eye, you should be able to see beyond the overlay, especially if it's under 80% opacity or so.
 
I thought that you were a Press photographer?

If you are, then you should understand exactly why some images, especially newsworthy ones, are watermarked without dismissing the whole practice.

Likewise if you've got a decent enough eye, you should be able to see beyond the overlay, especially if it's under 80% opacity or so.

Aye I suppose, all my press work is through an agency who do watermark my images when they display them on their site.

I think that kind of thing is very different to the kind of images that would end up on someones facebook though. Pic desk staff and pic editors etc will expect to see watermarks and yes, will be able to look beyond them.

It's the people without the decent enough eye though, IE the non-togging general public who might want to buy an print that would be put off by over zealous watermarking.

The agency site is the only place those images of mine are available online, ie they aren't on my Flickr and other than in exceptional circumstances don't get posted on my blog etc.

I think that the location of those images would put more people off using them illegally than the watermark would and if I do happen to have taken a picture of someone that manages to find that image on the agency site and wants to use it on their facebook, I still don't really imagine that they would want to pay for that image.

I suppose that in the case of event photographers (which would include the equestrian photographer that I first commented on) it must be hard to strike a balance between making your images visible and keeping them safe. Surely you just have to disable right click downloading, only put low res copies online and accept that to make X number of sales you're going to have Y number of images pinched from your site.

I'd still not call that a "lost sale" though because those people never intended to buy the image from you. Even if you're selling digital copies for 10p each, the person that has decided to pinch the image has decided that they don't want to pay that 10p for the right to use the image. They'll either use the image without paying or not use the image.
 
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