I'm Confused about pushing or pulling film

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I have a basic camera with only one shutter speed and aperture and some others that are very limited ,I normally use 200 speed film in the cameras in bright summer conditions as its cheap, As the results are never going to be technically stunning I'm thinking of using the same film through the winter but then getting it processed to account for under exposure this will create. Would I have to ask them to pull or push the film ? I'm interested to see the results of doing this.

Thanks all.
 
Just tell the lab what ISO you exposed the film at and let them work it out. Pushing the ISO is what you'll be doing; pushing the ISO200 film to 400 (1 stop), 800 (2), 1600 (3) etc.. Using traditional B&W film, you'll get larger clumps of grain but this effect will be reduced somewhat with C41 processed B&W.
 
You do like making life difficult for yourself! You could buy a basic camera that works properly with any film you like for about the price of a film plus processing. And the extra usually charged for pushing/pulling wipes out the saving on the cheap film.
 
I must admit I like a challenge, If it comes easy I soon get bored ! An old neighbour of mine pulled my wife (then girlfriend ) aside and asked, If he has 4 motorbikes and a car why does he cycle everywhere ?
 
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The main effect of pushing a film is to increase contrast rather than compensate for under exposure. Best to buy a faster film.
 
Filmdev don't charge for a 1-2 stop push, AFAIK. Best check though.

... and frankly, with consumer 200 ISO film, why not just shoot a roll and get it processed at box speed? That stuff is extremely flexible, and it's amazing what a good scanner can extract. I mentioned in the Hooley thread that I shot an entire roll of Portra 400 at 1/60 including sunshine up a mountain, and the scans came out pretty darn good (I know that was over-exposing rather than under, but still). After your first trial, you'll know whether to ask for some push processing next time.
 
Your basic fixed aperture, fixed shutter speed 'toy' camera, relied mainly on the fact that silver-halide has a lot of exposure latitude, which with a print film may be effectively doubled, cos any under/over exposure on the neg can, within limits, be compensated for by over/under exposing the print.

'Pushing' film in development to raise the exposure, 'as if' the film had a higher ASA, or 'pulling' in dev as if it had a lower one. Was done as often as not to 'recover' a film, say it was a 100ASA film that had been put through the camera with the ASA dial set to 1600ASA. Or less often, it was done deliberately,

eg, as a student, 16ooASA film was gang expensive; pushing the dev on a roll of 400ASA, was a lot cheaper and if you DIY easy enough to do, and back in my student days I did it a lot, buying 'cheap' Croatian Agfa copy stock in bulk lengths and rolling my own. For shots down the roc-soc... err, well, at the TIME.... I thought they were great and golf-ball grain added to the gritty underground music 'feel' of them. NOW... I wish I had paid more for decent film, and not taken so many crap pictures... Not aided by the fact that they were mostly shot on slide, so un-aided by any compensating effects in printing.... but hey ho... I have some, quite a lot infact, crap or otherwise!

For YOUR problem.... err... the answer is to get and use a camera that has a range of apertures and shutter-speeds! OR stick to what that camera does best, working in its sweet-spot of normally good day-light.

Most film may be pushed/pulled perhaps 3-stops either way, but contrast and grain are going to heck. And you wont be able to push film to be able to use slower shutters... cos you don't have any to use, nor pull it, to use wider apertures, cos you don't have none of dem neieva!
 
A few examples using 200 ASA film from one of the lowfi cameras. I know there not fantastic !

Bright sun, I think a little over exposed
1.jpg

Overcast but still reasonably bright ,somewhere near right
2.jpg

Over cast and dull ,dodging the rain, a little under exposed
3.jpg
 
Pretty sure most of the over and some of the under-exposure is down to the printing - just like those disappointing images straight out of the Sony - and less to do with what's recorded on the negative. The image 'somewhere near right' just has a narrower tonal range than most images, hence the averaged exposure selected by the machine doing the printing has neither over nor under exposed parts of it. The one exception is that last image, where the neg was very thin and there's lots of noise & iffy colour coming through.

Shots like that Curtiss aeroplane would need the top & bottom of the frame balancing for more detail in both highlight & shadow. In the bad old days one would use filters if you had no control over the printing process, with a grad on the sky, or if you printed your own then you might burn the sky and dodge the shadows a bit. For some kinds of photography films were sold having lower contrast, allowing one to keep detail in both a bridal gown and a groom's dark suit without having to resort to hand printing every image, and likewise some kinds of cameras with uncoated lenses giving lower contrast images were preferred.
 
Scanning is much like printing in that its a layer where compensatory brightness/exposure control may be applied.
See Exposure - Exposed! your comment on first pic is the reveal. 'You' think its a bit over exposed; b-u-t, you have a white house with a white wall behind it. IF you had been using a hi-er-fi camera good odds that a coupled CWA TTL exposure meter would have averaged that out and pulled down the exposure a bit. What you have is more akin to what you might have got using a hand held 'incident' metering, which would have looked at the brightness of the light falling on the scene, rather than the light reflected off it, and without and averaging out of bright areas of reflection, let them blow a bit. In which case yeah, it could 'seem' a little over exposed....
B-U-T... as tut, thing is there is no such thing as a 'correct' even less 'perfect' exposure, merely one you like or don't! And as tut, for an exposure that by whatever method is metered as 'correct' you probably have two or three stops either side of that, where the resultant picture is more of less to your taste, and probably a couple of stops more before you start loosing image.
To 'me', I don't think that this film ASA or 'push/pull processing milarky, is either a relevant or an issue. Using these lo-fi or 'Toy' cameras with such restrictive control, is what before some Austrian Students slapped a brand name on it and called it 'Lomo', we called 'Serendipity Photography' Happy-Chance picture making! Where fixed aperture/shutter lo-fi cameras clipped the extremities and forced a 'constant' into the equation, and made you concentrate on the scene and framing, and just getting a shot, rather than messing with settings getting bogged down in the technicalities.
Shots as shown, then, to my eye are rather soft, as you'd expect from a probably plastic lens toy-camera, and are lo-fi charming from it. And probably wouldn't be any more pleasing by dint of a better centred or scientifically 'correct' exposure.
Two and a bit things to ponder. Worrying about exposure from these cameras then you may be chucking the baby out with the bath water, and loosing that lo-tech antique 'feel' for some idea of 'better' that is more oft associated with 'fancy' cameras with meters and settings that more often inherently deliver that higher level of clinicity, and next, two or three stops, 'diddleability' you may have in processing, for a whole roll; you cant adjust the film speed frame by frame and you cant push/pull process individual frames on a roll, a-n-d, its 'only' two or three stops, when you likely have over a dozen stops of 'exposure latitude' and six-stops 'range' in which you get a pretty good exposure and the 'best' exposure is just the one you like best. In that the merits of push/pull processing are first of little significance, a-n-d a skew solution to what is probably not a problem. Pushing/pulling to effect 'some' adjust-ability on the film speed, where you lack adjust-ability on the aperture/shutter, is rather perverse, especially when, as said, you cant really effect that adjust-ability frame by frame, like you might if you had an aperture/shutter control, and it is still a relatively small amount of adjust-ability compared to the range you are working in.
As said, If you want 'better' than these lo-fi cameras are capable of, the answer is to take you into hi-fi cameras, with variable aperture/shutter controls, and up into metering methods where you start to get a lot more prosaic about the job, with or without the aid of an in camera computer to do the maths and even make the settings for you... the conclusion of which is to use a high-end modern DSLR, with a hand held accessory light meter.. and the 'baby' is well and truly inspecting The Water-Boards tomato plants whilst you faff with the settings! Your call!
 
Filmdev don't charge for a 1-2 stop push, AFAIK. Best check though.

... and frankly, with consumer 200 ISO film, why not just shoot a roll and get it processed at box speed? That stuff is extremely flexible, and it's amazing what a good scanner can extract. I mentioned in the Hooley thread that I shot an entire roll of Portra 400 at 1/60 including sunshine up a mountain, and the scans came out pretty darn good (I know that was over-exposing rather than under, but still). After your first trial, you'll know whether to ask for some push processing next time.

C41 films generally have a lot of latitide to overexposure - 'pulling' in development is rarely worthwhile. These examples were all developed normally:

https://carmencitafilmlab.com/how-exposure-affects-film/
http://canadianfilmlab.com/2014/04/24/film-stock-and-exposure-comparisons-kodak-portra-and-fuji/

But in the same series there's obviously much less tolerance to underexposure. Pushing may therefore be justified if you know you are consistently (say) 2 stops under, but the degree of underexposure will be hard to estimate if you are using a simple unmetered camera with no control over shutter speed or aperture.
 
I see your point Mike about the Lowfi charm these cameras produce ,I took a number of shots on the day at the airfield and really liked the imperfect results, at the same time I had a Little Digital point and press with me and took a number of similar shots which where technically better but to my eye just looked boring. There is also ( to me anyway) something very pleasing about having the simplicity of just composing and pressing the button rather than the total oposite when using my modern Sony and worrying about whether I have the 100+ setting options correct , I almost expect the Sony to be perfect every shot ( after all it cost more than 99p) and am quite often disappointed when something minor is not quite right (normally a Dynamic range issue) Where as with the Lowfi cameras (A lot of them by the original Lomo company) I just except they are not going to be perfect every shot and embrace the faults.
 
There is also ( to me anyway) something very pleasing about having the simplicity of just composing and pressing the button rather than the total oposite when using my modern Sony and worrying about whether I have the 100+ setting options correct , I almost expect the Sony to be perfect every shot ( after all it cost more than 99p) and am quite often disappointed when something minor is not quite right (normally a Dynamic range issue)

I think we have, in a nutshell, why the Sony has been a dissappointment. The sony is really quite a simple camera if just used in program mode or aperture priority, but it presents you with images containing an enormous amount of potential, rather than a simple finished picture that may or may not be OK. If you are willing to develop your own pictures (much easier now than when I first learned in the darkroom) then it will reward your efforts with the best images that your ability with a camera can create. If you would prefer not to learn to use a digital darkroom then you're probably better off selling the thing now while it still has some value and putting the money into more single-use cameras and processing.

I appreciate digital photography doesn't suit everyone, and you may well be someone for whom it's not a good match.
 
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