I'm struggling with all these different cameras!

sid_wolf

sid_wolf

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Name
Sinead
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I have decided that rather than go for the fuji bridge i was looking at, i'm going to really concentrate on getting better with my little samsung, and at the same time, save up for an SLR. Currrently have £100 (hence why i was looking at the fujifilm, was cheap enough to get now, and im incredibly impatient when i want something!!)

I've been having a look at the different cheaper SLRs out there, and the ones im looking at are:

Canon OES 1000D (with 18-55 IS lens)
Nixon D3100 (with 18-55 DC lens)
Pentax K-x (with 18-55 lens)
Sony Alpha a390 (with 18-70 lens)

Can anyone tell me the main differences between them please? Whats good, whats bad etc

I dont want to struggle to find lenses, so what ones would be best in terms of getting my hands on new/2nd hand lens?

Any other suggestions at under £450 with a lens?

ETA: i'd also prefer a rechargable battery pack, rather than it taking AA's or anything
 
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What do you photograph?
They all have the capacity to produce excellent photos.
The pentax and nikon are generally considered better built, but the 1000D is lighter.
The pentax and the sony offer in body stabilisation, which means you get it on all lenses, whereas nikon and canon have a larger range of lenses available (but sony and pentax have a completely satisfactory range for most shooters, and you can use old minolta lenses on sony and old pentax lenses on the pentax (and keep stabilisation)).
There is a newer canon 1100D coming out sometime, so the price of the 1000D will drop.

Try them out in your hands in a shop, pick the one that feels best to you.


It might be worth looking at a second hand body and spending more on lenses, the lens is ultimately what determines image quality. You'll get better photos from spending less on a body and more on the lens than spending less on the lens and more on the body.
 
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No, they are not weather proof.
If weather proofing is your priority, have a look at a used pentax K20D or K10D and a sealed pentax 18-55 DA WR. Doubt you'll get a weather sealed body and lens combo for less than that, unless you look to an old olympus e-1.

To be honest, they might not be sealed, but plenty of people I know used unsealed bodies and lenses in the rain and don't have any problems. But you can't guaranty you won't ever get a problem.
 
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my main subjects will be my dogs, this is the sort of thing i'd like to take

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I also like shooting macro (i know i will need a macro lens for this)
 
squishy said:
No, they are not weather proof.
If weather proofing is your priority, have a look at a used pentax K20D or K10D and a sealed pentax 18-55 DA WR. Doubt you'll get a weather sealed body and lens combo for less than that, unless you look to an old olympus e-1.

To be honest, they might not be sealed, but plenty of people I know used unsealed bodies and lenses in the rain and don't have any problems. But you can't guaranty you won't ever get a problem.
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i wouldnt say it was a priority, more a bonus, tbh i wouldnt go out looking for pictures in the rain, more like i'd get caught out in it at an event or something, i'll just take my compact as a back up :)
 
Have a look at the canon 55-250mm or nikon 55-200mm, they will do shots like that nicely for not too much money. Not sure what the equivalents in sony or pentax mount would be.
For macro, add a raynox DCR 150 or 250 close up lens to a 55-250 or 55-200 and it'll turn it into a pretty decent 'macro' lens for only £40ish.

As a super cheap solution for shooting in the rain: Carry a shower cap with you, and if it starts raining, pop it over the camera and poke a little hole for the viewfinder. Doesn't look pretty, but it'll keep the rain off your camera and let you keep shooting with your DSLR without worrying.
 
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squishy said:
Have a look at the canon 55-250mm or nikon 55-200mm, they will do shots like that nicely for not too much money. Not sure what the equivalents in sony or pentax mount would be.
For macro, add a raynox DCR 150 or 250 close up lens to a 55-250 or 55-200 and it'll turn it into a pretty decent 'macro' lens for only £40ish.

As a super cheap solution for shooting in the rain: Carry a shower cap with you, and if it starts raining, pop it over the camera and poke a little hole for the viewfinder. Doesn't look pretty, but it'll keep the rain off your camera and let you keep shooting with your DSLR without worrying.
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good idea with the shower cap :lol:

how good will the 18-55/70 lenses do for those kind of pics? i may not be able to get more lenses till around september (though i may not end up getting the camera for a good few months anyway)
 
I imagine an 18-55/70 would do ok, if you can get close.
A longer telephoto will let you take that kind of shot from further away, or get even closer into the action. Longer focal lengths will also give you a much nicer background blur.

To give you some idea, if you assume that photo was taken at 55mm, this is the area you'd frame at 250mm
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squishy said:
I imagine an 18-55/70 would do ok, if you can get close.
A longer telephoto will let you take that kind of shot from further away, or get even closer into the action. Longer focal lengths will also give you a much nicer background blur.
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So the size of the lens doesnt affect the sharpness of the subject (i.e the dogs) just how far you zoom in and the DoF?

feel free to tell me im completely wrong :lol:
 
sid_wolf said:
So the size of the lens doesnt affect the sharpness of the subject (i.e the dogs) just how far you zoom in and the DoF?

feel free to tell me im completely wrong :lol:
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Size of object = lens length, DoF = aperture - lower aperture gives less DoF and more blurry background (given everything else is constant). Sharpness - that's generally cost ;)
 
arad85 said:
Size of object = lens length, DoF = aperture - lower aperture gives less DoF and more blurry background (given everything else is constant). Sharpness - that's generally cost ;)
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so how good are the bundle ones for sharpness?? like i said above, i probably wont be able to get new lens for a while after, since i have to save up :lol:
 
sid_wolf said:
so how good are the bundle ones for sharpness?? like i said above, i probably wont be able to get new lens for a while after, since i have to save up :lol:
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The 18-55IS with the Canon is pretty good for the price. You are sure it's the IS version - the non-IS (also 18-55) isn't as sharp. No idea on the others....
 
Id go with the canon 1000d and get some 2nd hand lenses will do the job nicely
 
Sinead,
I know you were looking at a bridge, a low end Fuji, and now want a DSLR, which is fine.

However, as a bridge user myself (I go to meetings, we take it in turns to say why we use them, it's one stage off full DSLR addiction meetings....) if you want something that will do all that you want it to do, without costing you a fortune, then a bridge is what you want. THe Fuji HS10 (currently under £220 for a refurb from the Fujishop) has everything you need, including many features tha a basic DSLR won;t have -Live view, video, flippy out screen etc. It has a long, stabilised lens, and is also really good for Macro. You can shoot in RAW, it takes a flashgun etc.

It also cures you from that curse of Gear Lust - the feeling that whilst you like your shot, it would be SO much better with XXX lens.

It gives you a good stop gap, with massive focal range (720mm anyone!) and a great price, which then gives you the chance to see exactly what you enjoy shooting, and plenty of time to save up for something more than a basic DSLR.

Just food for thought.
Oh, and all the shots in my gallery are taken with a Fuji S9600 - about three cameras before the HS10, so pretty old tech now, but takes good photos (in my opinion!).
 
lawrie29 said:
Sinead,
I know you were looking at a bridge, a low end Fuji, and now want a DSLR, which is fine.

However, as a bridge user myself (I go to meetings, we take it in turns to say why we use them, it's one stage off full DSLR addiction meetings....) if you want something that will do all that you want it to do, without costing you a fortune, then a bridge is what you want. THe Fuji HS10 (currently under £220 for a refurb from the Fujishop) has everything you need, including many features tha a basic DSLR won;t have -Live view, video, flippy out screen etc. It has a long, stabilised lens, and is also really good for Macro. You can shoot in RAW, it takes a flashgun etc.

It also cures you from that curse of Gear Lust - the feeling that whilst you like your shot, it would be SO much better with XXX lens.

It gives you a good stop gap, with massive focal range (720mm anyone!) and a great price, which then gives you the chance to see exactly what you enjoy shooting, and plenty of time to save up for something more than a basic DSLR.

Just food for thought.
Oh, and all the shots in my gallery are taken with a Fuji S9600 - about three cameras before the HS10, so pretty old tech now, but takes good photos (in my opinion!).
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yea i was looking at thats, problem is dont they still have quite a shutter lag compared to a full slr??

I'd rather save up and have exactly what i need for what i want to shoot, than have something thats only halfway there, and leaves me longing for the real thing, iyswim....

ETA: looking at your gallery, scenery and portaits seem to be your focus, where as mine is more sport/fast moving, which is gunna rely on shutter speed more
 
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sid_wolf said:
yea i was looking at thats, problem is dont they still have quite a shutter lag compared to a full slr??

I'd rather save up and have exactly what i need for what i want to shoot, than have something thats only halfway there, and leaves me longing for the real thing, iyswim....

ETA: looking at your gallery, scenery and portaits seem to be your focus, where as mine is more sport/fast moving, which is gunna rely on shutter speed more
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The lag in shutter (i.e. the gap between pressing the button and the shot being taken) is all dependant on whether the camera has to focus first or not. If the camera is on manual focus, then there is no shutter lag at all. The way around that problem (and it is something which is there on DSLR's as well, though they do have better focussing systems than a bridge) is to pre focus the camera, or to shoot in a burst mode, which you would start to shoot before the action that you were expecting to happen. THere are plenty of people on here who have started out shooting motorsports with the S9600 with good success.

I understand completely with not buying something that is only halfway what you want, but at least with the Fuji you would have 2 advantages over a DSLR.

Firstly, it will cost you less, so you can start shooting sooner. It doesn't matter what camera your going to buy, if it is in the shop you can't use it!

Secondly, with the HS10, you can shoot everything you want to shoot straightaway - whether that is dogs in action, Macro, portraits, landscapes. You don't need to wait to save for another lens.

As I said, by finding out what you will use a DSLR type camera for, will help shape your decision with the next one you buy. I see many people on here who buy a basic DSLR, only wanting to upgrade again after a short time. The bridge route would mean you get on the ladder at step two of the DSLR chain.

If its a DSLR you want, then I'm not going to change your mind, all I am saying is that if you don;t consider the option your missing a really good camera that has many more features than basic DSLR.
 
lawrie29 said:
The lag in shutter (i.e. the gap between pressing the button and the shot being taken) is all dependant on whether the camera has to focus first or not. If the camera is on manual focus, then there is no shutter lag at all. The way around that problem (and it is something which is there on DSLR's as well, though they do have better focussing systems than a bridge) is to pre focus the camera, or to shoot in a burst mode, which you would start to shoot before the action that you were expecting to happen. THere are plenty of people on here who have started out shooting motorsports with the S9600 with good success.

I understand completely with not buying something that is only halfway what you want, but at least with the Fuji you would have 2 advantages over a DSLR.

Firstly, it will cost you less, so you can start shooting sooner. It doesn't matter what camera your going to buy, if it is in the shop you can't use it!

Secondly, with the HS10, you can shoot everything you want to shoot straightaway - whether that is dogs in action, Macro, portraits, landscapes. You don't need to wait to save for another lens.

As I said, by finding out what you will use a DSLR type camera for, will help shape your decision with the next one you buy. I see many people on here who buy a basic DSLR, only wanting to upgrade again after a short time. The bridge route would mean you get on the ladder at step two of the DSLR chain.

If its a DSLR you want, then I'm not going to change your mind, all I am saying is that if you don;t consider the option your missing a really good camera that has many more features than basic DSLR.
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ok,so help me get my head around these bridge cameras, the one im looking at (s1800), has a shutter speed from 8secs to 1/2000 secs, can i set the shutter speed? or does the camera do that automatically?

how much control do i have over the DoF??

I cantget the one you're talking about, not for a month or 2, and some of the lower end SLRs arent much more than that, so i'd get one of them, rather than a bridge. But if these bridge cameras really are as good as you're making them sound, then i'll consider the s1800 or s1900
 
Sinead,

The bridge cameras have only small sensors (the s1800 has one that is 1/2.3"). That means that to get a particular framing of the shot, you need to use a very short length of lens (actual length, not effective length). It is very difficult to get DoF with a short focal length lens. This is why people like - and pay for - full frame sensors.

Whilst bridge cameras are convenient, the picture quality is generally bettered by the entry DSLRs.
 
Yes, shutter speed is the length of time the shutter is open - you can control this.

I do not have much experience of the lower end bridges, but by all means look at a used S9600 -

http://photography.shop.ebay.co.uk/...f=1&_fln=1&_sc=1&_sop=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

Don't forget if you have £100, and are looking at a £450 DSLR, a £220 bridge is less than half as long to save.

And you will need extras as well - bag, memory, etc.

The higher end Fuji have a twist zoom, like a DSLR, whilst the lower end ones have a battery driven one - these take longer to startup and also to zoom in. I would not buy a lower end bridge.

Don't get me wrong, DSLR's can be a lot better than a bridge camera in many ways, but the opposite is also true.

If you have not yet grasped the concepts of shutter speed aperture etc. (and everyone needs to learn, I am not knocking you for not knowing) then trying to get to grips with a DSLR and expect to produce the shots you want can be frustrating.

A bridge is a learning camera, I know, I'm still learning with mine.
 
arad85 said:
Sinead,

The bridge cameras have only small sensors (the s1800 has one that is 1/2.3"). That means that to get a particular framing of the shot, you need to use a very short length of lens (actual length, not effective length). It is very difficult to get DoF with a short focal length lens. This is why people like - and pay for - full frame sensors.

Whilst bridge cameras are convenient, the picture quality is generally bettered by the entry DSLRs.
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Yes, this is one of the compromises that bridge cameras make.
 
Ive not owned the bridge cameras in question, but I own a dog, similar in breed to the OP, and when I had my Canon sx1 IS, I had absolutely no hope whatsoever of getting a picture of him running, or even moving slightly.

In my expereince, bridge cameras are fine for snapshots and staged still images like landscapes and portraits, but for fast action like dog racing.. I cant see the OP getting the results she wants.
My advice would be to save for a DSLR and second hand medium telephoto lens.

I still struggle sometimes getting sharp pictures of my Sebbe running even with all the high end gear Ive got in less than ideal light.


Full flight by TCR4x4, on Flickr​
 
Have you looked at micro four thirds cameras? You can either opt for larger ones for better ergonomics (like the Panasonic G2/GH2), or smaller ones for better portability (Panasonic GF1/2, Olympus PEN series).

They give you much better image quality than a bridge camera, the versatility of upgrading your lenses, and not as large and heavy as DSLR (especially if you go for the smaller models).

You could probably get a used Olympus MFT camera with the kit lens for £250, or get a body and the excellent Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 lens for about £400.
 
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God im MORE confused!!! :lol:

its incredibly tempting to go and get the s1900 (i could get it tomorrow...) i will have more control than i currently do, and it will enable me to learn, without the expense. But wont be exactly what i'm after....

But the SLRs are also really tempting, but i didnt realise the price of lens... full control, but will take me the same time to get a good lens, as it will to get the camera in the 1st place...

ARGGG!!!!! :bang:
 
I will say as someone who was in your position at the start of the year, that bridge cameras can be disappointing depending on your use, and how anal you are. I really can't help but pixel peep, which is quite bad, as I always want the best of the best when it comes to photography (and there's no way I can afford the best!).

I have (although am selling now) an FZ35/38 bridge camera. At lower ISOs it's great, but once you get above just ISO400, noise starts appearing quite visibly. Anything above ISO800 is virtually unusable, which is bad if you're into low light photography.

Then I got a 450D, kit lens and 50mm f/1.8. It was great, but then I had no money left over for accessories, haha. So I sold that, and have settled on an E-P1.

It's a great little camera. High ISO handling is fantastic, and even at ISO1600 it's great. I also got an old manual focus lens, am waiting on my adapter, and once it comes then I've got a fast f/1.8 lens for about £45. The only downside is low light focusing, and the lack of flash. There's no AF lamp assist (and no support for ones on external flashes either), so focusing under very low light conditions can be tricky. The slightly more expensive Panasonic GF1 defeats these, since it has both an AF lamp and a flash on the body, but the Olympus has a few advantage of its own. It's just a case of weighing them all up for your needs.
 
Smeghead said:
I will say as someone who was in your position at the start of the year, that bridge cameras can be disappointing depending on your use, and how anal you are. I really can't help but pixel peep, which is quite bad, as I always want the best of the best when it comes to photography (and there's no way I can afford the best!).

I have (although am selling now) an FZ35/38 bridge camera. At lower ISOs it's great, but once you get above just ISO400, noise starts appearing quite visibly. Anything above ISO800 is virtually unusable, which is bad if you're into low light photography.

Then I got a 450D, kit lens and 50mm f/1.8. It was great, but then I had no money left over for accessories, haha. So I sold that, and have settled on an E-P1.

It's a great little camera. High ISO handling is fantastic, and even at ISO1600 it's great. I also got an old manual focus lens, am waiting on my adapter, and once it comes then I've got a fast f/1.8 lens for about £45. The only downside is low light focusing, and the lack of flash. There's no AF lamp assist (and no support for ones on external flashes either), so focusing under very low light conditions can be tricky. The slightly more expensive Panasonic GF1 defeats these, since it has both an AF lamp and a flash on the body, but the Olympus has a few advantage of its own. It's just a case of weighing them all up for your needs.
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I'm not one for blowing pictures up and printing, they tend to stay on my laptop & travel the net :lol:

I dont really take shots at night, so shouldnt need a high ISO.

The bridge i've got my eye on his tracking auto focus, will this help for action pictures??
 
Depends how good it is. I found all the bridge cameras I tried were just too slow focussing for fast stuff, but technology has moved on since then.
 
looking at some people finepix pictures, they seem quite good (even found some of working huskies!)

i think i'll go into jessops tomorrow and give it a go, see if i like it.

its everything that comes with an slr which is putting me off, the price of lenses and stuff...

i never thought this would be quite this hard :lol:
 
It really is a ludicrously expensive hobby. Even things like tripods and bags - people say get a good tripod and a good tripod head. Yeah, you gotta buy them separately. And a good tripod can be upwards of £200, and the head £100! Likewise with a bag, there are some stupidly expensive ones (Billingham springs to mind) that are also about £100 each. It's crazy.
 
this is the thing, i only work part time, and dont plan to change that (dogs are hardly every alone), they're my main hobby, and duting the winter they get bloody expensive, with petrol to races and the entry fees, equipment etc etc....

I want to enjoy my photography, not worry about how much its costing me...
 
Which is exactly why the HS10 is the answer - You pays your £220 quid (be more for new and from jessops, though they may well have one for you to play with) and you do not need to spend any more money on it, bar a memory card, bag and some AA rechargable batteries.

I spent £180 on mine, 2 1/2 yrs ago, and apart from accesories which will work on any camera, havn't spent a bean.

Yes it is a little more than you where looking at, but it is a nice middle ground which means you can get on and take photos.

Oh, and could probably get £80 quid for it on fleabay.....
 
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lawrie29 said:
Which is exactly why the HS10 is the answer - You pays your £220 quid (be more for new and from jessops, though they may well have one for you to play with) and you do not need to spend any more money on it, bar a memory card, bag and some AA rechargable batteries.

I spent £180 on mine, 2 1/2 yrs ago, and apart from accesories which will work on any camera, havn't spent a bean.

Yes it is a little more than you where looking at, but it is a nice middle ground which means you can get on and take photos.

Oh, and could probably get £80 quid for it on fleabay.....
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like i said, im looking at the slightly downgraded verson, the S1900, still has a good focal length, and seems all singing, all dancing. only thing it doesnt do is raw, which i do fine without, i dont edit my pics anyway lol

but i think you might be right about the bridge, it seems best of both worlds...

i'll try get into jessops tomorrow and see if i like it
 
The fujishop has a refurb S2500HD - one up from the s1900 at a good price - £117.

Do have a feel of the HS10, the big difference is the zoom. It has a dslr style twisty zoom, which is a lot faster to use and also doesn't use batteries.

Have fun and let us know what you do.

Oh, and don't get you memeory card etc from Jessops, will be cheaper online.
 
lawrie29 said:
The fujishop has a refurb S2500HD - one up from the s1900 at a good price - £117.

Do have a feel of the HS10, the big difference is the zoom. It has a dslr style twisty zoom, which is a lot faster to use and also doesn't use batteries.

Have fun and let us know what you do.

Oh, and don't get you memeory card etc from Jessops, will be cheaper online.
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lol missed the bit where you said about the HS10, i'd love a twisty zoom, but at that price i'd rather just get a beginners SLR

I have an 8G SD (but the one with 4 letters, cant remember the 1st 2 :lol:)
 
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Also check out the panasonic bridge camera, FZ45. Similar price to the fuji HS10 and with a few more megapixels.

Photography blog has some excellent reviews. Worth a read and a gander at the sample images.
 
Back again Sinead!

Just following your last point and price.

For a DSLR you are looking at £350-£400 for a body and a kit lens and then a further £150 for a 200mm lens, and another £50 for the Raynox attachment to go with it to shoot what you want.

So it will cost you about £600 for that setup.

With the HS10, it is £220 and thats it, so about a third of the cost. And it gives you so much more than the other Fuji's do.

Just don't think that it is "nearly" as much as a DSLR, because it isn't when yo take into account extra lenses etc that you need for the DSLR.
 
Been lookin at myfinepix site, and at some of the photos taken with the S1600, the shots are nice and clear, macro shots show a good DoF, and the colours on many are vivid, overall im impressed with the quality of pictures some people have got.

We're off to Jessops tomorrow to have a butchers, i'll give it a whirl in the shop and see if I like it, TBH, i dont think i really need much more than the 1900, looking at the quality of pictures taken with the 1600.

Lawrie thanks for the advise on bridges, I'll see how much i like the 1900, and if it doesnt appeal to me when I get my hands on it, i'll havea serious look at the HS10 :)
 
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