iMac on last legs, move to PC?

JasonPC

JasonPC

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My iMac is borderline useless for LR now so it‘s time to upgrade. I’m thinking of moving to a PC, mainly to save money. It’ll be used for photo editing and nothing else, (I’ve an iPad for general web browsing and an Xbox Series S for games.), using LR and PS.

I‘ve no knowledge of PCs so would someone mind having a look at the specs below and giving their thoughts on suitability for photo editing? Cost, from Mesh (friend recommended supplier), is around 600 quid. I’ll likely pair it with the Dell monitor mentioned in a recent thread on here.

Thanks.

  • CiT Jet Stream Black/Silver Stripe Midi Tower Case
  • 450W Power Supply
  • ASUS PRIME H410M-A Intel mATX Motherboard
  • Intel Hex Core i5 10400F Comet Lake Processor - 6/12 Cores/Threads, 2.9GHz-4.3GHz Turbo, 12MB Cache
  • 32GB 2666MHz DDR4 (2x16GB) - Major Brand
  • 2GB GeForce® GT710 Graphics Card
  • 256 GB 2.5" SATA III SSD
  • 1TB SATA III 6GB/s 7200rpm 64MB Cache 8ms
  • 24x DVD Writer RW CD & DVD
  • Integrated 7.1 High Definition 8-Channel Audio
  • N300 WIFI wireless PCIe card
  • Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit
  • Logitech Desktop MK120 Keyboard & Mouse Bundle
 
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Hi,
I build PC's for a living and have the following suggestions,
Case looks to be ATX, so bigger than you need for a UATX Motherboard - suggest something like - Silverstone Precision PS09B Black Mini Tower PC Case
ASUS H410M-A has capacity for a M2. NVme SSD which will be much faster - WD Black SN750 500GB M.2 PCIe NVMe Performance 3D SSD/Solid State Drive with Black Heatsink
1Tb of storage seems very small for storing files - I suggest a 4Tb (cost versus capacity)
Windows 10 Pro is not really needed for Home use - Home edition will save a few £'s
Given that nearly all software is downloaded you could save £'s by removing DVD/RW
I would also add an internal card reader for ease of use -

I personally have an M.2 SSD for Windows & software + SATA SSD for working files + 4Tb HDD for storage and archive via 2 * 2Tb USB3 Drives
 
That build looks fine to me with the addition of the nvme drive suggested above. A bigger case can be handy for more storage drives IF you might use them in the future.
 
First things first that list needs weeding out and changing in my mind as follows:

Remove: DVD Writer, 1TB noisy HDD, GT710. Probably get the mouse and keyboard from elsewhere or adapt your mac stuff.
Add: as above, decent NVME such WD SN750 and make sure it is large enough to save reinstalling later.
Change: Get some CPU with integrated Xe graphics. It will gazzilion times better than that oldie 710, which probably can't even display 4K, let alone play youtube.
Don't be surprised if the case / fans are very noisy and spend the money there if that means anything to you.

Now it all depends how used you are to a mac and how well you know Windows. Keyboard layout change is minimal but if you are used to using LR / PS shortcuts it will make you bang your head on the wall for the first month. Secondly, mice for windows are generally rubbish. If you use apple one now you will quickly see that. Thirdly, you will deal with antiviruses that can slow down your system tenfold. For example if you get the WD drive and install Acronis app that they offer you it will do just that. I was shocked to see PS taking 40s to open a RAW file until I narrowed it down to that malware app. Now it is less than 1s. It is things like that. Oh, and Windows doesn't play well with different screen sizes and prevents you from changing font sizes manually. It forces you to make all screen soft. Windows is such as piece of junk that I honestly can't wait to go back to mac as soon as practical.
 
Compuwight said:
Windows 10 Pro is not really needed for Home use - Home edition will save a few £'s
Given that nearly all software is downloaded you could save £'s by removing DVD/RW
Click to expand...

100% agree with those. Unless you know what a hypervisor is, you almost certainly don't need Win 10 Pro :) It's not a better version - it's a version with some extra stuff you probably don't need.

LongLensPhotography said:
Don't be surprised if the case / fans are very noisy and spend the money there if that means anything to you.

Now it all depends how used you are to a mac and how well you know Windows. Keyboard layout change is minimal but if you are used to using LR / PS shortcuts it will make you bang your head on the wall for the first month. Secondly, mice for windows are generally rubbish. If you use apple one now you will quickly see that. Thirdly, you will deal with antiviruses that can slow down your system tenfold. For example if you get the WD drive and install Acronis app that they offer you it will do just that. I was shocked to see PS taking 40s to open a RAW file until I narrowed it down to that malware app. Now it is less than 1s. It is things like that. Oh, and Windows doesn't play well with different screen sizes and prevents you from changing font sizes manually. It forces you to make all screen soft. Windows is such as piece of junk that I honestly can't wait to go back to mac as soon as practical.
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About the only part of that I agree with is the noise :) Even if you spend a decent amount on cooling, it's unlikely a powerful PC is going to be silent like your iMac. As for the rest....

  1. My Logitech Master mouse is pretty nice - and it also works on my Macbook. IMO better than using a bar of soap :D The MK120 is a budget setup and won't be as nice but the keyboard and mouse cost about 1/3 of the price of a Mac keyboard so....
  2. The only AV I run is Windows Defender and it does an excellent job - unobtrusive, reliable and free. The days of MS anti virus being awful are over.
  3. I have 3 screens. They all run different resolutions just fine. Windows has some annoying quirks (if a screen is connected but powered off, Win10 likes to open programs on it - it's fiddly to sort out) but I have fewer issues than I did running an iMac with an extra screen - every few days it would go to sleep and never wake up until you rebooted.
 
I'm in exactly the same position, my 2014 iMac has gradually become crippled because of MacOS updates. Removing the ability to use so-called legacy 32 bit applications has taken away any enjoyment I used to have using the iMac.
The first to go were my Mac optimised old school games followed by my purchased LR6 with the Nik software. Since the advent of Big Sur my DXO PL3, Zerene, Affinity and Topaz applications run at half speed.
I'm now updating my semi redundant Windows 10 machine and can see me using this exclusively in the near future, the end of an era for me sadly.
 
footman said:
I'm in exactly the same position, my 2014 iMac has gradually become crippled because of MacOS updates. Removing the ability to use so-called legacy 32 bit applications has taken away any enjoyment I used to have using the iMac.
The first to go were my Mac optimised old school games followed by my purchased LR6 with the Nik software. Since the advent of Big Sur my DXO PL3, Zerene, Affinity and Topaz applications run at half speed.
I'm now updating my semi redundant Windows 10 machine and can see me using this exclusively in the near future, the end of an era for me sadly.
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Really........ big slowdown in Affinity? My 2013 iMac is chugging away as it is but I haven’t gone Big Sir yet....?
 
Canon brook said:
Really........ big slowdown in Affinity? My 2013 iMac is chugging away as it is but I haven’t gone Big Sir yet....?
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Don't do I tell you, don't do it :LOL:
To be fair that's probably a slight exaggeration I made regarding Affinity but the others are without doubt slower. When I used Zerene Stacking on my as yet not fully upgraded Win10 machine I was staggered at the speed.
 
footman said:
Don't do I tell you, don't do it :LOL:
To be fair that's probably a slight exaggeration I made regarding Affinity but the others are without doubt slower. When I used Zerene Stacking on my as yet not fully upgraded Win10 machine I was staggered at the speed.
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I think you are right......I’ve only just got my printer working properly after the last upgrade ( canon pro 100......the dreaded magenta cast) and I’m quite used to the 3-4 second preview focus lag in bridge......plus can go and make a brew whilst affinity is opening......perhaps at my age my brain and body might slow down at a similar rate to the iMac......tbh I love the look but it’s been a PIA on the photography side...........
 
I’m still running a 2012 iMac. It’s definitely not as fast as it once was. I’ve managed to get a bit more life out of it by booting it off an external SSD. After looking through PC options I’ve decided to keep the iMac going until see what apple release with the new chips. The price won’t be cheap but I figure I’ve kept my iMac for 8 years so the cost isn’t so bad if it’s kept that long. Another option will be to get a Mac mini.

Whilst PCs are cheaper I’m not sure I would get the same life span as my previous PCs haven’t lasted as long as I personally don’t know how to keep them running well.

It’s good to get to know what’s good for a PC build, especially if I go that way in the future.
 
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LongLensPhotography said:
Thirdly, you will deal with antiviruses that can slow down your system tenfold.
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You appear to be living in 2004.

Also, please don't be one of the idiots that asserts that there is no malware for Macs. As part of my day job I am subscribed to a number of mailing lists that alert about known software vulnerabilities and an awful lot of those published affect OSX / MacOS.

Anyone working IT support in a large organisation that supports both platforms will tell you that either is capable of slowing down over time when faced with user incompetence. Just thought I'd get that one out of the way before someone asserts that you have to wipe and reinstall Windows once a year to keep it running at full speed, a statement that just indicates the person making it is a numpty that shouldn't be let loose on any device connected to the internet.

LongLensPhotography said:
Oh, and Windows doesn't play well with different screen sizes and prevents you from changing font sizes manually. It forces you to make all screen soft.
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It's managing very nicely here with a pair of 2209WAs and a P2715Q. I have to run some magnification on the P2715Q else the text is too small at 4k, and that "just works" (TM).
 
rob-nikon said:
I’m still running a 2012 iMac. It’s definitely not as fast as it once was. I’ve managed to get a bit more life out of it by booting it off an external SSD. After looking through PC options I’ve decided to keep the iMac going until see what apple release with the new chips. The price won’t be cheap but I figure I’ve kept my iMac for 8 years so the cost isn’t so bad if it’s kept that long. Another option will be to get a Mac mini.

Whilst PCs are cheaper I’m not sure I would get the same life span as my previous PCs haven’t lasted as long as I personally don’t know how to keep them running well.

It’s good to get to know what’s good for a PC build, especially if I go that way in the future.
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I'm still on a 2010 iMac, it takes a while to load Lightroom, but seems fine to run it. Will be replacing when the M2/M1x chip iMacs come out later this year. after 10 years use I cannot begrudge £2k for a replacement.
 
onomatopoeia said:
You appear to be living in 2004.
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Hello, I've experienced this horror scenario and detailed quite well. If you don't believe try out that Acronis crap for yourself. Windows is full of it and it is beyond awful. I hate every minute on it!!!!
onomatopoeia said:
I have to run some magnification on the P2715Q else the text is too small at 4k, and that "just works" (TM).
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It DOESN'T. It kills the sharpness in all graphics and images. Try loading Linux and get amazed how many decades it is ahead.
 
Craikeybaby said:
I'm still on a 2010 iMac, it takes a while to load Lightroom, but seems fine to run it. Will be replacing when the M2/M1x chip iMacs come out later this year. after 10 years use I cannot begrudge £2k for a replacement.
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Congrats! My 2010 is still going too, just, as a backup in the studio. As a main computer it made it end of 2018 before being switched for a Mac mini.
 
Still using my 2012 Dell XPS. Put in a new SSD and maxxed RAM to 16Gb and it runs superbly fast.
I also upgraded the graphics to a MSI 1050Ti Gaming and I run a 2K BenQ C270 and an old 1k screen - both are superbly sharp.

Cost of purchase and upgrades (excluding monitors) is about £900

My other half has a macbook and it really isn't very good. The mouse pointer disappears all the time, and you can't stream video from it without the fans going crazy and a lot of juddering.
I really can't get o with the OS - the separation of the menu bar from the window of what you're working on is mad to me (though I grant that's probably down to not being used to it).
 
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Recent convert to mac-OS due to the need of a large screen for Zoom and I got hooked :)
Typing this on a late 2013 21.5" iMac running off an external SSD, will crack it open at some stage and fit an internal SSD just for the fun of it, as it is it runs Affinity just fine.
I also have a mid 2011 27" iMac with internal SSD + regular drive and a late 2009 27" iMac which again I will open and fit an SSD at some stage ... works great with two screens on Zoom or generally extending displays between the two.
 
Just get a newer used iMac, I would never go back to Windows and I built and sold PC's for 12 years.
 
imattersuk said:
Just get a newer used iMac, I would never go back to Windows and I built and sold PC's for 12 years.
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I've been building and overclocking PC's since the heady days of the Celeron 300, never sold any though, I couldn't imagine anyone mad enough to buy one of mine :LOL: .
I swore I'd never go back to Windows when trying to "upgrade" from Win7 to 10, the whole process drove me insane. Now I'm busy doing the reverse, upgrading my Win10 machine and contemplating selling the iMac!
 
footman said:
I've been building and overclocking PC's since the heady days of the Celeron 300, never sold any though, I couldn't imagine anyone mad enough to buy one of mine :LOL: .
I swore I'd never go back to Windows when trying to "upgrade" from Win7 to 10, the whole process drove me insane. Now I'm busy doing the reverse, upgrading my Win10 machine and contemplating selling the iMac!
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Seek out the nearest therapist, god bless you my son :p
 
each to their own! personally, i've been very impressed with the artwork, including bling and color fans, that goes into gaming cases that i've photographed at comic cons and gaming shows.
 
Canon brook said:
Let us know what you decide...
I might follow your lead........... :)
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Well I’ve ordered the damn thing.:) The more I read, the more indecisive I got so I just jumped in and ordered the machine above with upgraded memory, storage and graphics card as recommended. Seems like a week or two delivery ie., a little while before I find out if I made a hash of it somehow.:D
 
Well done. A tip I'd offer is to spend a n hour or two tailoring the desktop and start menu to suit you. A key difference between OSX an Windows is that Mac defaults look great and feel ok, while the default windows install sucks. Delete the cruft from the start menu and get the apps you will use on the taskbar, and the machine will be much sweeter to use.
 
JasonPC said:
Well I’ve ordered the damn thing.:) The more I read, the more indecisive I got so I just jumped in and ordered the machine above with upgraded memory, storage and graphics card as recommended. Seems like a week or two delivery ie., a little while before I find out if I made a hash of it somehow.:D
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Do you mind if I ask ball park cost with or without monitor...unless I’ve missed it somewhere...........?
 
Canon brook said:
Do you mind if I ask ball park cost with or without monitor...unless I’ve missed it somewhere...........?
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Near enough 1200 quid all in with monitor, (ouch, poor credit card!) Still, I think I’m around 600 quid better off than going the Apple route. As I’m only a hobby snapper, keeping the cost down was a big deal plus I think any future upgrades/replacements will be less painful away from the Apple system. Just mho of course, time will tell.
 
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JasonPC said:
Near enough 1200 quid all in with monitor, (ouch, poor credit card!) Still, I think I’m around 600 quid better off than going the Apple route. As I’m only a hobby snapper, keeping the cost down was a big deal plus I think any future upgrades/replacements will be less painful away from the Apple system. Just mho of course, time will tell.
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Hi Jason.....had a look at your supplier and all seems good. there...I had a bit of a eureka moment and realised I could run my non iOS friendly work software on something like this and dump my aging laptop As well as the iMac........( the larger monitor would be a massive win For my eyes......) just wondered if you mind detailing which of the suggested upgrades you went for.....memory, storage and graphics card?.......sorry I’m a novice at this......also just wondered if you got a card reader......I would need an SD & cf express one but can only ask.....? Anyway sorry to be a pain but seems to have been some good suggestions on this post and would like to be clear on what I should be looking for....... :)
 
Canon brook said:
Hi Jason.....had a look at your supplier and all seems good. there...I had a bit of a eureka moment and realised I could run my non iOS friendly work software on something like this and dump my aging laptop As well as the iMac........( the larger monitor would be a massive win For my eyes......) just wondered if you mind detailing which of the suggested upgrades you went for.....memory, storage and graphics card?.......sorry I’m a novice at this......also just wondered if you got a card reader......I would need an SD & cf express one but can only ask.....? Anyway sorry to be a pain but seems to have been some good suggestions on this post and would like to be clear on what I should be looking for....... :)
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I‘ve pretty much just done as suggested above. I’ve upped the memory to 32GB, (stock system was 8) and increased both storage options to 500gb and 4tb. I upped the graphics card to the ‘next one’ on the list.

I‘ll happily let you know when it arrives and how I get on with it, Lightroom-wise. LR and PS will be it‘s only use. Please remember thought that I’m not very computer literate at all and there are people on here far better qualified to offer advice than me! :p There will probably be some very dumb questions from me over the next week or two. I’ve spent a good few hours already on YouTube watching Windows tutorials. I’ve always used an iMac so this is all new to me.

My monitor arrived from Dell today. Looks a bit lonely on my desk with no PC to plug it in to. :D
 
JasonPC said:
I‘ve pretty much just done as suggested above. I’ve upped the memory to 32GB, (stock system was 8) and increased both storage options to 500gb and 4tb. I upped the graphics card to the ‘next one’ on the list.

I‘ll happily let you know when it arrives and how I get on with it, Lightroom-wise. LR and PS will be it‘s only use. Please remember thought that I’m not very computer literate at all and there are people on here far better qualified to offer advice than me! :p There will probably be some very dumb questions from me over the next week or two. I’ve spent a good few hours already on YouTube watching Windows tutorials. I’ve always used an iMac so this is all new to me.

My monitor arrived from Dell today. Looks a bit lonely on my desk with no PC to plug it in to. :D
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Thanks for the update....I’ll look forward to seeing how you get on....yes seems to be some good advice on here...and I can see where people have chipped in......I’m ok with windows etc....it’s just putting the right hardware together thats got me beat....... :)
 
PC arrived last Saturday. Plugged in and set up with no bother at all. Photos and other stuff copied from iMac to external drive then to PC in one day. Adobe, Amazon Photos, Datacolor and Bitdefender all installed easily. Basic stuff obviously but jumping from Apple made me wonder if I’d have issues through lack of knowledge with Windows.

It’s really quite amazing how much quicker Photoshop and Lightroom are now, which is good news considering that’s why I bought the thing. :p It‘s not as quiet as the iMac but it’s hardly noisy, certainly nothing to moan about.
 
JasonPC said:
PC arrived last Saturday. Plugged in and set up with no bother at all. Photos and other stuff copied from iMac to external drive then to PC in one day. Adobe, Amazon Photos, Datacolor and Bitdefender all installed easily. Basic stuff obviously but jumping from Apple made me wonder if I’d have issues through lack of knowledge with Windows.

It’s really quite amazing how much quicker Photoshop and Lightroom are now, which is good news considering that’s why I bought the thing. :p It‘s not as quiet as the iMac but it’s hardly noisy, certainly nothing to moan about.
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TBH I think windows is more intuitive than Mac these days, at least on a surface level.
 
Here is my take. I moved to iMac 11 years ago from pc’s. It was a leap of faith and to be honest I will never go back. My 2010 is just starting to show it’s age. So waiting for the new apple silicone to come on to the market. I still won’t go back.
 
wave01 said:
Here is my take. I moved to iMac 11 years ago from pc’s. It was a leap of faith and to be honest I will never go back. My 2010 is just starting to show it’s age. So waiting for the new apple silicone to come on to the market. I still won’t go back.
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Same
 
I'm still using my 2011 Dell XPS. I've added an SSD and a new graphics card so it looks like it'll happily do everything I need it to do for a long time yet.

The same goes for my 2013 Thinkpad E540, a new SSD has given that a huge performance boost. Yes, the battery life isn't great any more (5 hours or so, but I can buy a new battery if I want), and the screen is only 1366 x 768 but it is a touchscreen which can be useful at times.

They've gone from Windows 7 to 8, to 8.1 and now the excellent Windows 10. Neither has ever done a BSOD or crashed.

It didn't really need a the graphics card in the Dell but as I use Capture One, it's made a nice difference to the speed of that.

Conversely, I've been exposed to the world of Macs by my other half. She has a work provided Macbook Air and a 2019 Macbook Pro.

The "Pro" (now, there's an oxymoron) has been nothing but trouble, wifi disconnects if you plug a hub into one of the USB ports, but not the other, fans run incredibly noisily when playing video, which is extremely jerky when connected to a 4kTV (my 2013 Thinkpad handles things much better).

Yes, it's light, and the battery life is good, but that's about it. We had to delete a whole bunch of stuff to install Big Sur the other day because the SSD is so small.

The lack of ports is also a big problem - to connect it to anything you have to buy an expensive Apple dongle, having these things hanging out of the thing the whole time is a real bore. THe Thinkpad has all the ports you need, as well as useful stuff like an SD Card reader.

As you can tell I am far from impressed, especially when you consider the relative cost.

I really don't understand the love for the OS, though I suspect that's mostly because I'm so used to Windows. The way files are "piled on top of each other" when moving them into a folder - why? The menu at the top being detached from the window you're working on makes no sense to me. And then there's all the horrible animation and sound effects.
 
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