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Charles B

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Charles
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With advancing years my hand and arm stability when holding a camera has decreased. I use an Olympus E-M1 Mkii with good IS but am finding that, especially with longer lenses such as the 40-150 the unsteadiness may be beginning to override the IS of the camera. I wondered therefore if a heavier camera body would help stabilise my handheld attempts - my physics knowledge not quite being up to abstract calculations. Some of the newer cameras are now being reported as having equally good IS as the Olympus.
I really don’t want to change systems if I don’t have to but this issue is only likely to grow, I guess.
I would be grateful for any insights or views.
 
Charles B said:
I would be grateful for any insights or views.
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I will make one observation from my own experience: depending on how the camera is being operated, a heavier camera will be less stable than a lighter one.

When I used TLRs and medium format SLRs, if I operated them at waist level, lower shutter speeds were possible provided that they were on the end of a strap that was fairly taut, Raised to eye level, the shutter speed needed to be raised by at least 2 stops to obtain the same level of sharpness.

When using lighter 35mm cameras at eye level, the shutter speeds could be lower, because there was less muscle tremble.

Obviously, this is a personal observation and may not apply to your case.
 
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I agree the heavier the lens the harder I find it to hold steady, especially telephotos.
 
I have always been led to believe that the heavier the camera the more stable it was due to inertia. Ie, a heavy camera requires more effort to start it moving in the first place.

EDIT: Also bear in mind that once the camera has started to wobble the rate of oscillation for a heavy camera will be less than the rate of oscillation for a lighter camera.
 
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LongLensPhotography said:
It is aid, not a cure. Faster shutter speed and tripod will always be your friends here.
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IME shooting darker interiors of buildings at slow shutter speeds, a monopod is a useful aid and often may be more convenient to carry and use* than a tripod

* quicker setup and far less likelihood of hassle from security guards, etc.
 
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Inertia, as opposed to, say, kinetic energy is a linear calculation not subject to a logarithmic scale so relatively small differences in mass will not make an appreciable difference in inertia, which tend to be barely noticeable for small objects in any event.
 
I would suggest as Rob says a monopod may help. As for IS I find the Tamron IS seems better than the other systems I've tried, but maybe thats just me.
 
L320Rio said:
I have always been led to believe that the heavier the camera the more stable it was due to inertia. Ie, a heavy camera requires more effort to start it moving in the first place.

EDIT: Also bear in mind that once the camera has started to wobble the rate of oscillation for a heavy camera will be less than the rate of oscillation for a lighter camera.
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We're talking about hand holding here and so we're talking about the body's ability to hold something steady as opposed to how much inertia an object has etc. (y)
 
Ah, yes, somehow didn’t consider a monopod. No real consensus yet re- weight/size of camera but many thanks for your thoughts.
 
Charles B said:
With advancing years my hand and arm stability when holding a camera has decreased. I use an Olympus E-M1 Mkii with good IS but am finding that, especially with longer lenses such as the 40-150 the unsteadiness may be beginning to override the IS of the camera. I wondered therefore if a heavier camera body would help stabilise my handheld attempts - my physics knowledge not quite being up to abstract calculations. Some of the newer cameras are now being reported as having equally good IS as the Olympus.
I really don’t want to change systems if I don’t have to but this issue is only likely to grow, I guess.
I would be grateful for any insights or views.
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Regardless of whether its true or not it must be trivial to make your current camera heavier in order to test that.
 
Charles B said:
Ah, yes, somehow didn’t consider a monopod. No real consensus yet re- weight/size of camera but many thanks for your thoughts.
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Almost any support will help.

One old idea is a foot-pod, basicaly a strap fitted to the base of the camera with the other end trapped under your foot. They work for some people and are most practical with waist level finders. Actually, they might also work quite well with a rear screen.
 
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Charles B said:
Ah, yes, somehow didn’t consider a monopod. No real consensus yet re- weight/size of camera but many thanks for your thoughts.
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As I said it's down to how the individual copes with the heavier weight and not down to physics per se. I would suggest that for 99% of the people the heavier the gear the harder it is to hold steady. Of course balance comes in to play as well as some lenses are more front heavy than others, and the more front heavy they are the harder it is to hold still.

If you want a real world example I have the Sony 70-200mm which weights 1045g and the 100-400mm which weighs 1395g and have roughly the same dimensions (when the 100-400mm is zoomed in). I find the 70-200mm much easier to hand hold and hold steady.

Likewise the 100-400mm is easier to hold steady at 100mm than 400mm which is a combination of the longer focal length magnifying movement and the fact that the lens extends moving the weight forward.

I would suggest weight plays more of a part than focal length (within reason) as I could handhold the Olympus EM1-II and 40-150mm f2.8 Pro (80-300mm eq) more steadily than I can the Sony A9-II and 70-200mm f2.8. The Olympus gear weighs 1334g and the Sony 1723g
 
snerkler said:
As I said it's down to how the individual copes with the heavier weight and not down to physics per se. I would suggest that for 99% of the people the heavier the gear the harder it is to hold steady. Of course balance comes in to play as well as some lenses are more front heavy than others, and the more front heavy they are the harder it is to hold still.

...
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It also seems to be a fairly steep cut-off as well, I'm happy to use my A900 + Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 (~2.3kg total) over the course of several hours without it feeling too heavy, but switch to the Tamron 150-600 (~2.8kg total) and I don't feel comfortable shooting handheld, and always use a monopod to take the weight.
 
I have. Age related tremor with intent. So the harder I try not to shake the more I do.
I find a chest pod or monopod very helpful. As well as firing the shutter with the index fingers of both hands at the same time. I also use a mouse with two hands. The counter pressure smooths things out.
 
I wonder how difficult it would be to modify an old rucksack frame with an over the shoulder support, sort of steadycam type idea?? Just a random thought.
 
My statement above still stands but regarding weight, it's not so simple. Shape, and hand position may be equally important. Between f4 and 2.8 versions of 70-200 I see very little difference. I don't even miss it on 24-70 2.8, but say 85mm 1.8 was somehow attracting so much shake like nothing else. It's just too small and thin. Can't say I like the little 50mm either handheld.
 
And I dislike monopod unless for some vary scary reasons you have to take it for its secondary application. It only really stabilises a single axis, and makes it more likely to tilt camera. I don't like them period.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
And I dislike monopod unless for some vary scary reasons you have to take it for its secondary application. It only really stabilises a single axis, and makes it more likely to tilt camera. I don't like them period.
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I prefer not to use one, but I found using the 150-600 without some from of support was not practical for me.
Note that I use the monopod primarily for support, rather than stabilisation - so I leave the IS on, and the ball head with some play in it, holding the camera / lens in a similar way to normal (the monopod is on the lens foot) - which after a bit of trial and error seemed to be the most 'natural' way for me to use it - trying to use it with the ball head locked didn't work well at all.
 
Are you using the view finder or live view when you are having the issue.
Using the viewfinder adds some benefits over holding the camera out to look at the screen.
 
A relatively cheap and easy way to make your current camera heavier would be to add a battery grip. Used examples of the HLD-9 are available for under £100.
 
Snapsh0t said:
A relatively cheap and easy way to make your current camera heavier would be to add a battery grip. Used examples of the HLD-9 are available for under £100.
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That’s true, and for their current setup shifts the weight backwards and may help hold it steadier. However if the OP swaps systems it might mean heavier lenses which shifts the weight forward and makes it more difficult to hold steady.
 
Charles B said:
With advancing years my hand and arm stability when holding a camera has decreased.
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With advancing years I have abandoned heavier kit and use light Olympus bodies (E-M5 Mk3) with good glass (f1.4, f1.8, f2.8), which enables me to use higher shutter speeds to supplement the image stabilisation. If your 40-150 is the heavier f2.8 Pro you might want to consider if another option would satisfy your needs. :)
 
With my severe age related tremor. I have developed this unusual over hand grip that allows me to shoot with two opposing fingers. which combined with my adjustable chest pod attached to the L bracket on my Fuji X 30 allows me to take shake free photographs.

It gives a very stable support even wearing glasses ( which are hidden by my hands.


This was with my XF 18-55 at 61mm FF equivalent @ F4, 1/125 and 1000 ISO shot in the bathroom mirror, with OIS on.

T30X2564web.jpg
 
With physically longer lenses you have to be aware of windy conditions, and it really can affect stability. Lens hoods are generally very useful in most circumstances but in high winds they can very negatively affect stability even on tripod. I sometimes remove it just for the shot where flare is not concern.
If it is bloody windy I always find little 50mm will give perfectly stable image on tripod where 24-70 is very much a hit and miss. Go up to 400mm you you need to shelter it with your body, car doors or even a building!
Mounting or handholding longer lens via tripod collar is another reasonable idea because that is usually where the mass centre is. So weight is in play for sure, but as a function of physical dimensions balance.
 
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