Image used without permission

ayjay80

ayjay80

Messages
354
Name
Ashley
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi all,,

I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this as I have no experience of this kind of stuff so any advice would be appreciated.

I've just discovered that one of my images has been used as the main background image on a flier. The image has obviously been lifted from either my social media feed or a post I've made yet I've not been contacted to give permission for the image to be used.

What makes it interesting is that the flier has been produced in a collaboration between MOD Police, Suffolk Constabulary & USAF!
 
gramps said:
"It's a fair cop guv" :LOL:
Click to expand...
That'll be a "Hutch" then, he was a "fair" cop as opposed to "Starky" his hair was quite dark
( :coat:)

Seriously though, a few people on here have has success with Pixey.
None of mine have been actionable though, usually Russian or Mexican.
That's outside their jurisdiction apparently.
It always amazes me how far my nicked from Flickr images have traveled.
 
Wasn't Hutch the one who beat his wife? As if singing to her wasn't enough torture.
 
ayjay80 said:
What would form the basis of the invoice? Would I need to take into account how many flyers have been produced, what about potential future print runs?
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I'd bill them for the highest price possible. Unlimited license maybe. Considering they've just stolen the image, you're well in control.
 
simon ess said:
What would you do if they tell you to F off?
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Send it to a debt collecting agency. They haven't a leg to stand on since they stole the image. I've done it a couple of times and with foreign users and each time billed them for $1k US. This is government agencies in the UK. Should be fairly straightforward.
 
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Depends what its been used for, if its a local police force in conjunction with the USAF (People parking where they shouldn't outside Lakenheath or what not) then its not worth the hassle.. it it were commercial then tear them a new one.

Don't go in all guns blazing. I suspect its an Aircraft shot? Be nice and tread carefully and see if you can get anything out of it other than cash (a guided tour etc) as the chance of getting cash for a flyer is probably close to nil.
 
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The above posts suggest that it is unwise to post images on Social media. I will not post anything on Social Media. I am not concerned about protecting my copyright from the point of view of earning money but mainly the principle and, if someone entered a competition with one of my images, it might be me that I am accused of being a cheating so I do not take the chance.

Dave
 
Which tbh is a pretty good way to think about it. In fact I'd go so far as if you are really worried about images being stolen don't stick them on the internet at all. Watermarks are by and large a waste of time and trivial to get rid off. I've had some success with pixsy in the past and done some stuff on my own but there are large swathes of the internet out there where you can't do anything about it.
 
keety said:
Depends what its been used for, if its a local police force in conjunction with the USAF (People parking where they shouldn't outside Lakenheath or what not) then its not worth the hassle.. it it were commercial then tear them a new one.

Don't go in all guns blazing. I suspect its an Aircraft shot? Be nice and tread carefully and see if you can get anything out of it other than cash (a guided tour etc) as the chance of getting cash for a flyer is probably close to nil.
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Why? Because it's the Police or USAF? Rubbish! They lifted the image and used it without permission and used it on a commercial flyer. I come from a police and RAF/Armed Forces family and would still invoice them. I've no idea why they should be treated any differently when the crime is theft?
 
Firstly, you need to be absolutely, 100% certain that it is your image. Study and compare every single angle, line and nuance of both images to
ensure that they are a match.

Secondly, ignore any comments about invoices and collection agencies. They are wrong. Also ignore any spurious figures being thrown about.

There's a clearly defined path for the recovery of damages laid out on EPUK
(http://www.epuk.org/the-curve/the-i...p-by-step-guide-for-issuing-a-copyright-claim )

Follow that.

Before you do so, you need to establish what the value of the damages is; ie your tort or loss.

I'm going to take the premise that although you are an amateur you would have charged appropriately for the image's use.
Therefore, as you have no pricing of your own, you will have to rely on a court recognise pricing engine.

One of those is FototQuote.

For UK use only, Corporate advertising printed on a quarter page flyer with a production run of 10,000 copies, the licence fee would be £382.44.
For 50,000 copies it would be £503.80.

Therefore you need to find out the volume of the print run.

As a first step, I would advise contacting the Communications Dept of Suffolk Police.
The USAF will give you the run around deliberately, the MoD Pol through admin clusterf**ks.

Firstly ask them where they obtained a licence for the use of the image.

Once that is established (ie the lack of), you have to inform them of your intention to seek damages.
At this point you require them to provide the volume of the print run so that you can establish a value.

Once that is achieve, you send them a demand for damages.

That would be base value
x 2 for flagrancy (all Comms Depts understand copyright)

If you have asserted your moral rights to be identified as the author (either on your website, social media channels or in the IPTC)
then that would be another x2.

So given a print run of 10k you would be asking for either £764.88 or £1,147.32.
 
DemiLion said:
Firstly, you need to be absolutely, 100% certain that it is your image. Study and compare every single angle, line and nuance of both images to
ensure that they are a match.

Secondly, ignore any comments about invoices and collection agencies. They are wrong. Also ignore any spurious figures being thrown about.

There's a clearly defined path for the recovery of damages laid out on EPUK
(http://www.epuk.org/the-curve/the-i...p-by-step-guide-for-issuing-a-copyright-claim )

Follow that.

Before you do so, you need to establish what the value of the damages is; ie your tort or loss.

I'm going to take the premise that although you are an amateur you would have charged appropriately for the image's use.
Therefore, as you have no pricing of your own, you will have to rely on a court recognise pricing engine.

One of those is FototQuote.

For UK use only, Corporate advertising printed on a quarter page flyer with a production run of 10,000 copies, the licence fee would be £382.44.
For 50,000 copies it would be £503.80.

Therefore you need to find out the volume of the print run.

As a first step, I would advise contacting the Communications Dept of Suffolk Police.
The USAF will give you the run around deliberately, the MoD Pol through admin clusterf**ks.

Firstly ask them where they obtained a licence for the use of the image.

Once that is established (ie the lack of), you have to inform them of your intention to seek damages.
At this point you require them to provide the volume of the print run so that you can establish a value.

Once that is achieve, you send them a demand for damages.

That would be base value
x 2 for flagrancy (all Comms Depts understand copyright)

If you have asserted your moral rights to be identified as the author (either on your website, social media channels or in the IPTC)
then that would be another x2.

So given a print run of 10k you would be asking for either £764.88 or £1,147.32.
Click to expand...
And that, folks, is the answer we needed.
 
I have used pixsy over several years. , and done rather well on payouts with one payout from a very well known company , and Ia good few others , though they do take 50% as a cut that’s half of a substantial payout for which I have done nothing . .three of my final payouts were in four figure sums
 
keety said:
Depends what its been used for, if its a local police force in conjunction with the USAF (People parking where they shouldn't outside Lakenheath or what not) then its not worth the hassle.. it it were commercial then tear them a new one.

Don't go in all guns blazing. I suspect its an Aircraft shot? Be nice and tread carefully and see if you can get anything out of it other than cash (a guided tour etc) as the chance of getting cash for a flyer is probably close to nil.
Click to expand...

I've currently got a very good working with RAF Lakenheath and maintaining that relationship is at the top of my list, so will be treading very carefully. That being said I want to get to the bottom of why an image was used without my permission.
 
DemiLion said:
Firstly, you need to be absolutely, 100% certain that it is your image. Study and compare every single angle, line and nuance of both images to
ensure that they are a match.

Secondly, ignore any comments about invoices and collection agencies. They are wrong. Also ignore any spurious figures being thrown about.

There's a clearly defined path for the recovery of damages laid out on EPUK
(http://www.epuk.org/the-curve/the-i...p-by-step-guide-for-issuing-a-copyright-claim )

Follow that.

Before you do so, you need to establish what the value of the damages is; ie your tort or loss.

I'm going to take the premise that although you are an amateur you would have charged appropriately for the image's use.
Therefore, as you have no pricing of your own, you will have to rely on a court recognise pricing engine.

One of those is FototQuote.

For UK use only, Corporate advertising printed on a quarter page flyer with a production run of 10,000 copies, the licence fee would be £382.44.
For 50,000 copies it would be £503.80.

Therefore you need to find out the volume of the print run.

As a first step, I would advise contacting the Communications Dept of Suffolk Police.
The USAF will give you the run around deliberately, the MoD Pol through admin clusterf**ks.

Firstly ask them where they obtained a licence for the use of the image.

Once that is established (ie the lack of), you have to inform them of your intention to seek damages.
At this point you require them to provide the volume of the print run so that you can establish a value.

Once that is achieve, you send them a demand for damages.

That would be base value
x 2 for flagrancy (all Comms Depts understand copyright)

If you have asserted your moral rights to be identified as the author (either on your website, social media channels or in the IPTC)
then that would be another x2.

So given a print run of 10k you would be asking for either £764.88 or £1,147.32.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this, very insightful indeed...

I'm 100% sure that it's my image that's been used as it's very unique so no concerns with that.

As you suggest, I will make initial enquiries and go from there.
 
ayjay80 said:
I'm 100% sure that it's my image that's been used as it's very unique
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That’s not quite same as convincing a third party that its the same one though :(.
 
ayjay80 said:
I've currently got a very good working with RAF Lakenheath and maintaining that relationship is at the top of my list, so will be treading very carefully. That being said I want to get to the bottom of why an image was used without my permission.
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If the name of the Design/Publishing Company is printed on the leaflet, I would contact them and ask them where they got the image from.
 
j crossley said:
If the name of the Design/Publishing Company is printed on the leaflet, I would contact them and ask them where they got the image from.
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I agree, the designer may have used it without the end users actually being aware that it wasn't a stock image.
 
j crossley said:
If the name of the Design/Publishing Company is printed on the leaflet, I would contact them and ask them where they got the image from.
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Agreed.

@DemiLion "Secondly, ignore any comments about invoices and collection agencies."

Disagreed. I've invoiced companies several times when they've used images of mine without permission. They've either payed or in the case of website usage have removed the image. It doesn't always have to be that complicated.
 
j crossley said:
If the name of the Design/Publishing Company is printed on the leaflet, I would contact them and ask them where they got the image from.
Click to expand...

Jelster said:
I agree, the designer may have used it without the end users actually being aware that it wasn't a stock image.
Click to expand...

To be completely honest, it looks like an in house production rather than a design/publishing company...
 
I have used Pixsy and also pursued things myself. I have had good success with both avenues. @DemiLion has absolutely explained this to a tee, so thanks for that. My £500 estimate is obviously a guess based on the limited information provided. Obviously the greater use of your image (50,000 flyers as opposed to 500) would attract a bigger fee. Print, magazine, internet and TV all command higher fees etc. The key part is to include part of your invoice for the actual use of it, and another part for the unauthorised use of it and your efforts to correct this.

However, as stated Demilion has given you a proper answer so I will leave it at that. Let us know how you get on. Your relationship with Lakenheath may be affected as a result, but its about standing up for what you believe in.
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
Agreed.

@DemiLion "Secondly, ignore any comments about invoices and collection agencies."

Disagreed. I've invoiced companies several times when they've used images of mine without permission. They've either payed or in the case of website usage have removed the image. It doesn't always have to be that complicated.
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It isn't complicated.

More to the point, if you want to carry out legal proceedings, do it correctly from the beginning. That way if it comes to court, your case won't be thrown out with the judge laughing at you.


... and if you think that wouldn't happen... it has. To a member on here in about 2011.
 
DemiLion said:
It isn't complicated.

More to the point, if you want to carry out legal proceedings, do it correctly from the beginning. That way if it comes to court, your case won't be thrown out with the judge laughing at you.


... and if you think that wouldn't happen... it has. To a member on here in about 2011.
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Mark, you are right in this case. I can be hot headed sometimes and up until now have dealt with such cases myself. Looking at all the facts in a more level headed way, the OP also has a relationship to nurture so your way of dealing with things is probably more sensible. Those instances I've dealt with personally have been companies I've no relationship with and have never gone as far as court.

@ayjay80 Mark's methodology is far more sound. I apologise for the poor advice.
 
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THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
Agreed.

@DemiLion "Secondly, ignore any comments about invoices and collection agencies."

Disagreed. I've invoiced companies several times when they've used images of mine without permission. They've either payed or in the case of website usage have removed the image. It doesn't always have to be that complicated.
Click to expand...


Just because it worked for you does not make it the right or best way

Mike
 
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