In focus from foreground to background

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nikonuser

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Dave
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If for example, I wanted to shoot some pebbles on a beach with a cliff backdrop and wanted the pebbles in the foreground and the cliffs in the background all to be in focus, is this when I should use the hyperfocal distances or is there another way of achieving this.
Thanks
Dave
 
F/16 or F/22, on a tripod and keep the shutter open for a few seconds.
 
Chaz - could you clarify please - when you say 'yes' is that a yes for using the hyperfocal distances.
Thanks so much
Dave
 
Hyperfocal distance is fine if you know it. If not just focus 1/3rd into the scene. as said f16 or f22 for good depth of field and whatever shutter speed you need for correct exposure. Wider angle lenses have greater depth of field than standard lenses but a normal range lens will still do it. Some lenses can start to get softer at f22 due to refraction so it is worth doing a few test shots.
 
the simple answer to your question is yes.
the hyperfocal distance is quite simply when you have the maximum depth of field,
So no, there is no other way to achieve the maximum depth of field, than to focus at the correct hyperfocal distance.
 
Thanks Guys, appreciate your help.
Dave
 
So you are standing on a pebbly beach looking at the cliffs, but what is your hyperfocal distance. The least you will need is a hand held calculator. You know the focal length you have (18mm) you know the apperture you will use (F16) and yours is a crop camera, so C of C is .015 . So yor HF is 1.35 meters. set your camera to this distance and your DOF is .7m to INFINITY.
 
Chaz Photos said:
? what has shutter got to do with it? this says nothing about the question asked you like saying forget exposure just keep it open :shrug:
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Because if the aperture is stopped down, less light gets into the camera, jesus christ.

You could crank up the ISO to compensate and maybe get a grainy picture or just lower the ISO and leave it open for a few seconds.
 
Classcams, the OP is using full frame, D700.

Hyperfocal distances are easy enough to scribble down on a piece of card and carry with you. There is only one HFD for each focal length and f/number, so say a max of six numbers per focal length, and maybe half a dozen focal lengths to note down.

Pop your details in here to get the HFD, and any other depth of field info you need www.dofmaster.com

I feel I should point out though that DoF tables always take the distance from the front of the lens as reference point, whereas your focusing scale will measure from the focal plane (sensor) - makes a big difference when you really close with a super-wide.

The other thing is, DoF tables tend to be a rather rough guide. Although the science is very precise, as it obviously must be to get any meaningul figures, the whole theory is based on a wide set of subjective assumptions, and at least some of those are quite likely not to apply to any particular situation.
 
Are you serious ? when we are talking about a metre to infinity a few centimetres makes naff all difference. Oh I forgot you are the bloke who said a crop sensor gives a greater DOF than FF, forgetting to mention that you had to move back with a cropped shot thereby increasing the distance from camera to subject. THE GREATER THE DISTANCE, THE GREATER THE DOF.
 
classcams said:
Are you serious ? when we are talking about a metre to infinity a few centimetres makes naff all difference. Oh I forgot you are the bloke who said a crop sensor gives a greater DOF than FF, forgetting to mention that you had to move back with a cropped shot thereby increasing the distance from camera to subject. THE GREATER THE DISTANCE, THE GREATER THE DOF.
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Yes Andrew, I am serious.

I had exactly this situation recently photographing some flowers close up, with a rather good view behind. I think it might be quite similar to the OP's stones on the beach situation. Canon 40D, 10-22 lens at 10mm f/16. HFD gives depth of field from 7in to infinity so given that the lens-to-sensor distance is about six inches and the hyperfocal distance is about 14in, it makes a very big difference.

And yes again, crop sensors do give greater depth of field than full frame. If you frame the subject the same, from the same position, then f/number for f/number, it will be greater by aproximately one and a quarter stops (f/number x crop factor). I think the bit you are missing is that in order to retain framing you need to use a shorter focal length lens. It's all on the DoFMaster link I posted.
 
You can really feel the love in here can't you... :puke:
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes Andrew, I am serious.

I had exactly this situation recently photographing some flowers close up, with a rather good view behind. I think it might be quite similar to the OP's stones on the beach situation. Canon 40D, 10-22 lens at 10mm f/16. HFD gives depth of field from 7in to infinity so given that the lens-to-sensor distance is about six inches and the hyperfocal distance is about 14in, it makes a very big difference.

And yes again, crop sensors do give greater depth of field than full frame. If you frame the subject the same, from the same position, then f/number for f/number, it will be greater by aproximately one and a quarter stops (f/number x crop factor). I think the bit you are missing is that in order to retain framing you need to use a shorter focal length lens. It's all on the DoFMaster link I posted.
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Very interesting. I always wondered how to get all of the picture in focus when faced with situations like this. Thanks for sharing.
 
Chumpalot said:
Very interesting. I always wondered how to get all of the picture in focus when faced with situations like this. Thanks for sharing.
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Your welcome bud :) Not everyone is as appreciative :D
 
you need a wideangle tilt shift lens (y)

Thought I'd spice things up a bit....
 
Chumpalot said:
So I've noticed.

There's a way to disagree with someone's advice or point of view. Then, there's the above....
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I don't mind disgreement, or being corrected when I'm wrong. But in this case, I'm not. Just presenting the facts really. Group hug :love:
 
Hairyduck said:
you need a wideangle tilt shift lens (y)

Thought I'd spice things up a bit....
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Now that's an idea! They are brilliant for exactly the the OP's shot. Pricey though.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes Andrew, I am serious.

I had exactly this situation recently photographing some flowers close up, with a rather good view behind. I think it might be quite similar to the OP's stones on the beach situation. Canon 40D, 10-22 lens at 10mm f/16. HFD gives depth of field from 7in to infinity so given that the lens-to-sensor distance is about six inches and the hyperfocal distance is about 14in, it makes a very big difference.

And yes again, crop sensors do give greater depth of field than full frame. If you frame the subject the same, from the same position, then f/number for f/number, it will be greater by aproximately one and a quarter stops (f/number x crop factor). I think the bit you are missing is that in order to retain framing you need to use a shorter focal length lens. It's all on the DoFMaster link I posted.
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So if you cannot move back you use a shorter focal length lens which has a greater DOF. Regarding the original post, we were discussing beach shots,not close ups of flowers. Why do you wriggle so much. :LOL:
 
Any how I find this forum a bit boring, so I`ll call it a day
 
chilliz said:
Nowt to do with shutter speed at all. :)
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I refer thee to my earlier post before I lose the plot ;)

Because if the aperture is stopped down, less light gets into the camera, jesus christ.

You could crank up the ISO to compensate and maybe get a grainy picture or just lower the ISO and leave it open for a few seconds.
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-> unless it's a nice bright sunny day, shooting at F/22 might require a shutter speed that begs the use of a tripod, unless you raise the ISO. Why not just drop the ISO down, stick it on a tripod and open the shutter for a second or two?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself.
 
Why not just open the shutter for a time determined by whatever metering system you decide to employ, rather than just 'a second or two'?
 
trencheel303 said:
I refer thee to my earlier post before I lose the plot ;)



-> unless it's a nice bright sunny day, shooting at F/22 might require a shutter speed that begs the use of a tripod, unless you raise the ISO. Why not just drop the ISO down, stick it on a tripod and open the shutter for a second or two?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself.
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I think what they mean to say is that saying that the shutter needs to be left open for a second or two might be misleading to the OP.

We do get your point that it might need a longer exposure than usual due to the small aperture but you can't put a number on it (a second or two) without knowing what conditions the OP is going to be shooting in. A second might overexpose it, on the other hand it may be too little.
 
Dudie said:
Why not just open the shutter for a time determined by whatever metering system you decide to employ, rather than just 'a second or two'?
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Yeeeeeees, obviously. I was giving an approximate answer. I was trying to make it clear to the OP that getting everything in focus would require a high F/ stop which in turn would require a lower shutter speed.
 
Please remember this is a beginners section of the forum, and while it may be obvious to you that "a second or two" means expect a longer exposure time, it may not be to others.
 
trencheel303 said:
I refer thee to my earlier post before I lose the plot ;)



-> unless it's a nice bright sunny day, shooting at F/22 might require a shutter speed that begs the use of a tripod, unless you raise the ISO. Why not just drop the ISO down, stick it on a tripod and open the shutter for a second or two?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself.
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Norma, spitting your dummy out because people are misunderstanding you is not constructive. Try explaining it in another/better way.

What people are trying to explain to you is that your first post said that the OP should keep the shutter open for a few seconds if using f16 or f22. To someone starting out, that could be seen as an instruction outside of setting for the exposure. It doesn't have to be a bright sunny day to get reasonable shutter speeds at f22.
 
Back on topic, Hoppy, thanks for the DOFMaster link. I'd been wondering if this kind of thing existed and now I know
 
classcams said:
So if you cannot move back you use a shorter focal length lens which has a greater DOF. Regarding the original post, we were discussing beach shots,not close ups of flowers. Why do you wriggle so much. :LOL:
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What is the difference? We were discussing hyperfocal distance focusing. And I live 100 miles from the sea.

For the benefit of others, let me explain what I think our departed friend might be saying, and what I am saying. Actually, you could say that there is some truth in Classcams statement, but only a half truth.

This is why you get greater depth of field with smaller sensor cameras. Compacts for example, have huge depth of field - you can't get rid of it - because their sensors are only the size of your little finger nail.

If you have a full frame camera, like the OP's Nikon D700, and you frame up the picture with a 50mm lens, at say f/8 you will get a certain amount of depth of field. Now if you change to a crop format camera, like a Nikon D300 with a 1.5x crop factor, to get the same subject framing you will need to use a 33mm lens (50/1.5x=33) in order to fit the same view on to the smaller sensor.

The exposure remains the same, f/8 again, but you get more DoF with a smaller sensor to the tune of f/number x crop factor, because the image is smaller (less magnification). So when shooting with the crop format camera at f/8, the DoF will be equal to shooting at f/12 on full frame.

You could say that the increased DoF is because you are using a shorter focal length, but that is not the fundamental reason. The main difference is that you have got a smaller sensor and that is what demands that you use a shorter focal length to maintain framing, so it is actually the sensor that is driving the change.

You might then say that's just semantics but the reason why it is important is because if you just say it is the lens making the difference you end up saying that shorter focal lengths automatically deliver greater depth of field when in fact they do not (and the opposite of course, that longer ones give less DoF - another common misunderstanding). If you shoot with a short focal length lens, and then move back and take an identically framed shot with a longer lens (without changing format), the depth of field will be the same in both images, it's only when you change the sensor format that things become different.

40th Dimension said:
Back on topic, Hoppy, thanks for the DOFMaster link. I'd been wondering if this kind of thing existed and now I know
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:) DoFmaster is a good site.

There are a few DoF calculators about, but that seems to be the one most people use. You can input all the relevant data in there and see how things change and compare. Focal length, f/number and distance are obvious enough, but what happens when you select the camera model is that it then automatically sets the sensor format and changes the circle of confusion to the appropriate setting to maintain the same standard of sharpness.

It also gives hyperfocal distances, hyperfocal range and loads of other useful stuff.
 
nikonuser said:
If for example, I wanted to shoot some pebbles on a beach with a cliff backdrop and wanted the pebbles in the foreground and the cliffs in the background all to be in focus, is this when I should use the hyperfocal distances or is there another way of achieving this.
Thanks
Dave
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i have used Adep on my 40d before to good effect, it is a setting that attempts to get everything in focus from front to back, it is my preffered setting for landscapes
 
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