Intel 12-14th gen temperatures / fan noise management

LongLensPhotography

LongLensPhotography

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Intel engineers must be completely deaf and cold :LOL: These setups are baking hot and noisy right from the box! I've been tinkering with my 13700k ever since and brought it back down some and really wonder what is the limit in an air-cooled setup

How low or high are your temps at idle and under load?



I have so far undervolted by -.075V and that got me around minus 5-9C from the red hot sub-100C mess in Cinebench R24, and I think it could go down some more but frankly there wasn't much gains going down from -0.05V. It may be best left alone at this point?

My air cooler is middle of the road Noctua NH-U12S. Nothing special but it is listed as fully compatible.

The trouble is the temps almost instantly go there just even browsing images in LR and that brings in intolerable noise from the oh so ironically named be Quiet! and Noctua fans. Any PC noise is intolerable by definition. If I liked noise I would work in roadworks.

As the simplest and cheapest thing to do I am going to swap out the Noctua heatsink fan for Silent Wings 4 Pro 120, and limit the thing to the quietest setting, then move the removed NF-F12 as a second intake fan capped at say 6-700rpm. I really don't like the noise it makes at higher rpms. Then limit 2x case silent wings 3 front and rear fans to say 800-1000rpm. Does that sound sensible enough?
Next step would be the whole heatsink swap and that's basically NH-D15s vs Dark rock 5 pro but I'd rather not mess around and incur that cost with it if I can avoid it.

The final crazy option that I see is replacing intel bracket with Thermaltake one and adding liquid metal paste. I can't say I'm looking forward to this. It looks doable, but then it is that fragile and stupid LGA socket that just looks for reasons to die at first possible opportunity.

My understanding is any AIO setup is VERY NOISY no matter what so I'm definitely not going there.
 
My newest build in 2023....

i5-1360K
Noctua NH-D15S with the Noctua thermal paste

GPU is RTX 3060

Idle
CPU temp 32c and RPM 960
GPU 43.5c and 0rpm

Under load
CPU 60c and RPM 1132
GPU 61c and RPM 1700

The load was single image noise reduction exported as jpeg using DxO PL7 with the GPU as the primary processing unit i.e. the CPU load was not due to the NR operation.

Noise wise IMO its is the GPU fans running up to and holding the RPM above....once finished the RPM drops again to zero.

The PC case is a well sound dampened Fractal Design Define 7

When I was finalising the PC build I had the case sides off and though I do not think I ran an under load test and that time the Noctua fan was inaudible.

I don't do batch image exporting but at this stage I can only surmise that the fan noise I mention above would simply be more prolonged? As for how intrusive the noise is..............all I can say it is whisper quiet compared to my 10+ years old PC

PS I think I still have an Audio Noise app on my phone and could take a measurement is needed. Oh, my PC is on my desk approx less than an arms length away from me so very close in noise terms.

HTH :)
 
Box Brownie said:
Idle
CPU temp 32c and RPM 960
GPU 43.5c and 0rpm
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Is this core or socket temp?

1704156370685.png

My fans are not allowed anywhere near that RPM at idle - so that is quiet if I could only keep it that way all the time.

I should probably split case fans up to the individual headers on the motherboard.

Box Brownie said:
The load was single image noise reduction exported as jpeg using DxO PL7 with the GPU as the primary processing unit i.e. the CPU load was not due to the NR operation.
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yes, that sounds like CPU is not stressed all that far in this operation.

Box Brownie said:
Noise wise IMO its is the GPU fans running up to and holding the RPM above....once finished the RPM drops again to zero.
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Yes, I generally don't have as much issue with GPU (3060TI FE) derived noise considering my typical workload. It takes a while for it to start up and goes away quite quickly and it sounds more like weird scratching rather than the CNC router at full rpm
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Is this core or socket temp?
Click to expand...

That was Core Temperature
I have noted that there is 'CPU Package' temp and that is Idle 41c and max (records last max under load) of 53c

NB I use HWiNFO64 to read the system parameters.

LongLensPhotography said:
View attachment 410867

My fans are not allowed anywhere near that RPM at idle - so that is quiet if I could only keep it that way all the time.

I should probably split case fans up to the individual headers on the motherboard.


yes, that sounds like CPU is not stressed all that far in this operation.


Yes, I generally don't have as much issue with GPU (3060TI FE) derived noise considering my typical workload. It takes a while for it to start up and goes away quite quickly and it sounds more like weird scratching rather than the CNC router at full rpm
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I have just used the Android app and holding the phone within inches of the case
Idle
30db (Whisper) reading of 29db

Under the previous load test repeated
40db (Quiet Library) reading of 39db dropped back to 33 then to the 29db

NB I am not separately measuring the case fans, so no idea about their speeds as HWiFO64 does not show any reading(s) for the case fans.

Edit~
I note that the U12S fan is 120mm and the D15S fan is 140mm....IIRC fan diameter and RPM are both contributing factors in noise generation so is the U12S fan even if running slower than my faster running D15S fan 'louder' :thinking:

Edit2 ~ as mentioned at Idle and browsing the web of indeed browsing image files in whatever program I am using is inaudible, though if I open the door to the case put my ear very close I can discern a soft whirring noise. Under the load test and what I think are the GPU fans (there are two contra rotating ones) they make what I would describe as rushing noise at the above 39db....this is as mentioned audible with the case door closed and sitting approx arms length away.

Edit 3
I decided to make DxO PL7 use the CPU rather than the GPU
NB it still processing after about 5 mins.....using the GPU the process takes about 10 seconds

The CPU Core Temp maxed out at 68c but settled a little lower
The CPU Package temp maxed at 65c
The CPU fan hit max 1687 rpm but settled at 1256 rpm but and most importantly in regard to your noise issue the db reading is still at 29db....so as reported above the GPU fans were adding to the noise not the CPU load increasing the CPU fan speed.

The image processing is still running...........I really appreciate the way the modern editing software makes use of the GPU for processing and oh so quickly :)
NB the i5-13600K has 6 off P Cores & 8 off E Cores
 
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You know what I got so fed up I forced all case fans in Silent mode through case controller. We are talking around 35db in noisy mode but in quiet room thats unbearable. Let the bloody thing roast as high as it wants
 
Don't Intel processors run hotter? I'm sure their TDP tend to be higher than AMD.

Could be worth looking at something like Argus Monitor if you haven't already done so. It's got a lot of customisation and it helps me keep things very quiet even under load. I'm about 32°C idling and up to 60°C under load such as gaming. I think when stress testing it never reached even 80°C, but it is an AMD processor. It's running stock.
 
gman said:
Don't Intel processors run hotter? I'm sure their TDP tend to be higher than AMD.

Could be worth looking at something like Argus Monitor if you haven't already done so. It's got a lot of customisation and it helps me keep things very quiet even under load. I'm about 32°C idling and up to 60°C under load such as gaming. I think when stress testing it never reached even 80°C, but it is an AMD processor. It's running stock.
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I had similar numbers with 5600X, so it was surprisingly quiet without any messing around. Intel one is determined to warm up my room, which actually quite welcome at the moment :LOL:

Maybe the idea is to have more fans in the case if they are going to be speed restricted to silent levels. I'm simply not going to let their rpm spike up and down every time I click on something; its just crazy. Same as blinking LED lights. I should be at the CESpit screaming at Intel right now.
 
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It was a long week messing around the PC. AWD parcel finally arrived so I changed thermal paste to Arctic MX6 and I think that brought down the temps by maybe 2C to around 35-37C / 29C. It is not very scientific, doesn't account for ambient, windows background tasks, etc so it may be just a positive bias. I took the effort to spread the paste around the whole lid instead of dumping 5 dots. Tip: never ever use Arctic wipes. I had to open all windows for a whole hour to get rid of perfume stink. That definitely brought all temperatures way down :headbang:

Then I swapped Noctua NH-U12S default fan for Silent Wings 4 Pro 120mm in slowest mode and moved the NH-F12 as the second front fan capped around 5-600rpm. I also took the hammer to all fan curves in BIOS, set baseline around 5-600rpm, and brought all other points way down from default.
I have to report a positive cumulative effect in the middle section of the temperature graph. The ends pretty much remained unchanged. The good things is the fan roaring while doing any work in LR is gone, while temps remain manageable while not ideal.

So that tells us the lesson MSI BIOS pwm graphs are bats*** crazy, just bring them way down. 1C less is simply not worth suffering the noise.

Now the crazy thing is I could have bought the whole Thermalright Phantom Spirit cooler (amazon) for the price of one SW4PRO. youtube reviews suggest this is actually one of the best ever CPU air coolers for power hungry modern CPUs along with Noctua D15 but without the price tag or RAM clearance issues. The real question is if I can be bothered to reinstall the motherboard in the case to swap it out.

I may do more simple tinkering if another pair of ebay silent wings 4 140 fans actually arrive, It was too cheap not to buy when I thought I was actually done with the whole game. That;s right - my sort of computer games :LOL:
 
What's the rest of your case fan setup like?
 
Is that just the one fan at the front of the case and one at the rear? Just wondering if you could get another one at the front to help push air across and is there room for a top exhaust fan near the rear which could help pull more hot air away from the cpu area?
 
gman said:
Is that just the one fan at the front of the case and one at the rear? Just wondering if you could get another one at the front to help push air across and is there room for a top exhaust fan near the rear which could help pull more hot air away from the cpu area?
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Well I just did that on the front. I think I explained that in detail earlier

I don't think there is any point trying to push any air through the sliver in the metal on the top. Supposedly this is also the noisiest spot for a fan, so would have to be castrated to < 500 rpm

The only remaining spot is above PSU and below GPU. It is unlikely to make much impact other than perhaps make GPU happier when it gets a little bit of video work. Again I imagine this would be limited to something like 700rpm max
 
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LongLensPhotography said:
Well I just did that on the front. I think I explained that in detail earlier

I don't think there is any point trying to push any air through the sliver in the metal on the top. Supposedly this is also the noisiest spot for a fan, so would have to be castrated to < 500 rpm

The only remaining spot is above PSU and below GPU. It is unlikely to make much impact other than perhaps make GPU happier when it gets a little bit of video work. Again I imagine this would be limited to something like 700rpm max
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Sorry, I must have missed it earliest re. front fan. Was just thinking more along the lines of what I've done as in as more big fans and despite running them all at low rpm I'm still pushing plenty of air through and out. I also had to be careful with choosing static pressure ones in certain areas rather than high airflow due to the magnetic metal dust filters in place.

It could be worth checking the GPU area out. I discovered that my GPU was causing some heat soak near the CPU, so I've got a custom fan placed between the front case fan and the GPU, (basically sitting on top of the PSU cover) to help push the hot air from the GPU straight out of the rear rather than circulating inside the case. This helped both my CPU and GPU temps get down.

I've got a feeling there will be only so far you can go with that processor though, unless you go liquid cooling which I think you are against. I've always been a little nervous about liquid cooling! lol
 
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gman said:
It could be worth checking the GPU area out. I discovered that my GPU was causing some heat soak near the CPU, so I've got a custom fan placed between the front case fan and the GPU, (basically sitting on top of the PSU cover) to help push the hot air from the GPU straight out of the rear rather than circulating inside the case. This helped both my CPU and GPU temps get down.
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I'm not too worried about GPU at the moment. It is doing very little work most of the time and drawing less than 20W. So I can't imagine it could generate too much heat. A slow fan on top of PSU is being considered once (and if) I have the spare fans. Again I don't expect this to have any major effect overall and am rather concerned about more dust getting sucked in from the bottom. There is mesh cover, but dust doesn't seem to care to observe it all that much.

gman said:
I've got a feeling there will be only so far you can go with that processor though, unless you go liquid cooling which I think you are against. I've always been a little nervous about liquid cooling! lol
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This is just an <academic discussion>. I suspect my case is really not optimal for AIO with a solid metal top. I may be wrong but ideally AIO fans should double as an exhaust. In this case the have to blow air back into the case. It may keep CPU cooler but raise the system temps, and thus require much more powerful intake and exhaust.
Option B would be mounting AIO as an intake on the front. the only problem is this would again blow warm air into the case. And my front is fairly restricted for airflow so I can't see this working too well. I can remove the front cover but that defeats the purpose of silent case.
So I suspect air cooler is a much better option with BQ DB 700.
The just released 701 is a fairly different design with the mesh top so you would just mount it there. However top mesh and room dust can't be a great combination if you can't remember to vacuum the place on a daily basis.
AIO is great for hot systems under heavy loads (think gaming, or 3d rendering workstation). However I really fear they are much more noisy than needed at idle.
</academic discussion>

If I feel desperate to bring the temperatures down I still have the option of Noctua D15 or one of the Thermalright dual tower coolers. This really should have been done on day 1.

I can still try undervolting further. I haven't hit the BSOD yet.

Finally the "nuclear option" is the Thermalright LGA 1700 bracket and liquid metal paste. That's maybe -10C delta right there alone if we believe the tinternet experts. Obviously bad s*** can happen here if anything goes south.
 
Just some reflections & observations.

On my old now retired PC, I used a LianLi case with 2 front fans (can't recall the size) which blew over the HDD cage with 4 drives in it.
There was a rear exhaust fan and one top fan.
IIRC when new they barely whispered and again IIRC I replaced them all at least once.
The intel CPU had the stock retail HSF on it.
And point in April last year when I retired following my New build it was very noisy.
The PSU was mounted on the top of the case and though the fan vented to the outside, because of it's position contributed to the case temperature.

On my new build I sought a case that could be configured to have the front fans blowing over the HDDs and had good acoustic dampening.

Case: Fractal Design Define 7 with 3 off case fans (2 front & 1 rear) all IIRC 120mm and run directly from the PSU so fixed speed (not sure of the RPM?) but importantly they are inaudible and I think I can hear them as a slight whisper with the door open and my ear almost touching the front filter venting.

The PSU is mounted in the base and is shielded from the main case area. The Corsair 850W PSU has some sort of "active" fan and I cannot say I have ever noticed the fan running even under load.

As mentioned the case has good acoustic dampening including the 3 HDD in use are in grommeted carriers.

The CPU has the Noctua D15S and even under load is (to my ears) noiseless.

The only noise other than the aforementioned very slight background whisper, is the GPU fans when under image post processing load which as I only do single images i.e. not batches so the fan noise is intermittent. NB in a previous post I mentioned running the post processing with just the CPU i.e. taking the GPU out of the 'equation' and though the CPU fan ran faster it was not noticeable.

I think my case choice for my build was pivotal in ensuring as low a noise profile as possible for me.

PS the case has a mesh filter on the base and another one in the front......I have yet to check them, so a timely reminder to do so,:)
 
My confidence in latest be Quiet! product QC is pretty seriously dented as of today. They are very good designs but their Chinese factory is churning out a lot of lemons.

1 of the 2 ebay Silent Wings 4 Pro 140 fans turned out with a major QC issue, poor rotation and grinding noise just spinning it by hand. For what it cost me I opened it up and found it was badly assembled with glue splashed everywhere, coils mounted badly and no lubricant to speak of at all. Definitely not a user fault. I applied silicone grease and all noise and grinding is gone. It is not spinning for as long as the good one though. I am not sure I have enough confidence to connect it to MB so we may have to leave it at that.

The other one is all nice and good testing by hand (for now - not tested in a PC yet), just like the 120mm I bought off the AWD (also for now...)
The original case SW3 perform great to this day so probably if they fail they fail early on. Or maybe they actually did QC back in the day.

Now this is JUST a fan, a cheap item. But this is not so when it comes to their PSU and latest coolers like Dark rock pro 5 or Elite. They use custom mount 135mm fan designs that are not available anywhere as a replacement.
Now if you search internet for BQ gen [12..13] PSU noise you will find plenty. Trust me it is all true and not made up. Now this is a really big deal because they are very expensive PSUs. So that crappy fan is a nice confirmation that BQ has no QC to speak of.
And likewise the £115 air cooler is a very expensive and risky deal. I definitely won't risk buying one now.

The morale here is that items like coolers need to have industry standard serviceable parts like true 120mm or 140mm fans, particularly if these are expensive premium models. So personally I will be avoiding be Quiet products going forward. There are alternatives that don't try to screw over customers in every way.
 
I've got a 750W Corsair PSU in both of my builds and they have proved to be very good if that helps.

Fan wise, I've been happy with the Noctua ones, both their static pressure and high airflow ones.
 
gman said:
I've got a 750W Corsair PSU in both of my builds and they have proved to be very good if that helps.

Fan wise, I've been happy with the Noctua ones, both their static pressure and high airflow ones.
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I think I will also try Corsair (850W?) probably next year. Zero rpm mode sounds good and their fans are standard. I don't technically need it yet until I upgrade the GPU which is likely to be nvidia 5070 as long as it gets 16GB or more RAM,
I have 650W and I will be surprised if it can take much over the current 200W TDP GPU. I hope I'm not maxed already because I never push the graphics all that hard. Also new PCIE5.0 connectors are becoming the norm so that will definitely do it.

I'm done with the fans for a long time now. Sure Noctua is very good; also everyone is waiting for their new 140mm version which was supposed to be out already. On paper BQ SW4 is now better as long you get a well assembled copy.
The one I messed around with is good for the bin now :LOL: . And no, I did not put it in to the case. You can test with multimeter: spin the blade by hand and it should generate voltage. Very simple. One bad, one good.
 
AFAIK bespoke company builds such as Dell & HP will make their PSU with very little headroom.

With my build I wanted a little power future proofing.....so yes my Corsair 850W is about approx 100W 'too much(?)' IIRC from my calculations but that means lower stress on the components and as mentioned as far I can tell (holding my hand by the PSU vent) the fan rarely runs.
 
Box Brownie said:
With my build I wanted a little power future proofing.....so yes my Corsair 850W is about approx 100W 'too much(?)' IIRC from my calculations but that means lower stress on the components and as mentioned as far I can tell (holding my hand by the PSU vent) the fan rarely runs.
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That's the way to do it.

When I initially bought most components in 2021 it was hard to find anything at all for weeks at a time - either new or used. So 650W was it and it seems to do a good job so far. I tried upgrading for no particular reason but had to walk it back. On the positive side this will ensure I am not wasting money on a GPU I don't need :LOL:
I measured my power draw at the socket and the most I could pull was just under 300W. So that probably means GPU still was doing quite little work. CPU is capable of some 225W or so alone.
I don't have any HDDs inside or power hungry AIO so this may help to offset the numbers.

Box Brownie said:
AFAIK bespoke company builds such as Dell & HP will make their PSU with very little headroom.
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There are a lot of strange or cheap things they do. Like a single RAM stick, disabled OC functionality of supported CPU, installing older gen hardware and so on...
 
LongLensPhotography said:
I think I will also try Corsair (850W?) probably next year. Zero rpm mode sounds good and their fans are standard. I don't technically need it yet until I upgrade the GPU which is likely to be nvidia 5070 as long as it gets 16GB or more RAM,
I have 650W and I will be surprised if it can take much over the current 200W TDP GPU. I hope I'm not maxed already because I never push the graphics all that hard. Also new PCIE5.0 connectors are becoming the norm so that will definitely do it.

I'm done with the fans for a long time now. Sure Noctua is very good; also everyone is waiting for their new 140mm version which was supposed to be out already. On paper BQ SW4 is now better as long you get a well assembled copy.
The one I messed around with is good for the bin now :LOL: . And no, I did not put it in to the case. You can test with multimeter: spin the blade by hand and it should generate voltage. Very simple. One bad, one good.
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I'm not sure if they still do it, but the Corsair RM750i PSU had a lovely monitoring control panel where you could see the temps, fan speeds etc. I can't remember if you could control the fan speed, but I think you could. The one I've stuck in my current build is the RM750x, which doesn't appear to have the monitoring stuff.

I don't know if they still offering this monitoring and if they do which lines it will be now, but if it's of interest then maybe worth looking out for.

A 5xxx series card?!!! :oops: :$
 
Checking back in my old thread about my build it was this PSU I bought and it does have what they call "Zero rpm technology" the fan only starts @340W load according to the graph on this page.


PS as mentioned previously the Define 7 case physically isolated the PSU from the main chamber, so unlike the pictures showing it in case with the fan drawing air from the case. I fitted mine upside down such that it, will as needed, draw from the base of the case through the nylon mesh filter! And when I checked that filter a few days back there was no sign of dust on...... perhaps confirmation of what I thought, that the PSU fan hardly ever cuts in? :)

The front case filter had some dust with a small amount on the inside by one of the case fans. Even reticulated foam filters let some dust through.
 
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I'm running this effective yet noisy rig:

i9 13900k
RTX4090
1200W PSU
Noctua NH-D15 CPU fan
5 x 140m case fans.

To be fair, the latter are near silent. The GPU isn't too bad but the CPU cooler sounds like a friggin SRN-4 (for those old enough to know what that is). My die temps are all within expected levels (around 41C idle and peaking at 95C under Cinebench stress test which is apparently normal for these things. So everything is working it's just very loud. And not too bad at keeping the room warm.
 
Typhoon7 said:
I'm running this effective yet noisy rig:

i9 13900k
RTX4090
1200W PSU
Noctua NH-D15 CPU fan
5 x 140m case fans.

To be fair, the latter are near silent. The GPU isn't too bad but the CPU cooler sounds like a friggin SRN-4 (for those old enough to know what that is). My die temps are all within expected levels (around 41C idle and peaking at 95C under Cinebench stress test which is apparently normal for these things. So everything is working it's just very loud. And not too bad at keeping the room warm.
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That is blast from the past :)
 
Typhoon7 said:
bad but the CPU cooler sounds like a friggin SRN-4
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Oh dear... Maybe the bearing is on its way out. Do a test spinning it by hand when PC is off. It should not make any noise at those rpms and keep spinning for a while.

I definitely noticed there is no point leaving the default turbo fan curve. You lose at worse 1-2C by cutting RPM quite drastically.

Typhoon7 said:
(around 41C idle and peaking at 95C under Cinebench stress test
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pretty much what I was getting before undervolting at all default settings. It is hard to say if 4090 is contributing anything towards that. That's a beast of a card.
 
Slightly more tinkering done tonight. I replaced noctua 120-F12 with the good BQ Silent Wings 4 pro (pic before replacement). It looks cleaner if nothing else, and sits right above the other fan.
Maybe as the most powerful fan in the system it should be swapped to a different position?

And then I started looking at the GPU bottom cooling options (pic 2). Basically the spot I wanted to use right below the card is no good.
Even 120mm clashes with MB connectors, and below is half occupied by the PSU.
So that leaves right bottom quadrant if I can get rid of the HDD housing. I think I should be able to and I certainly don't need it. Would a fan do anything really useful in that place?
It would have to be the noctua.... once I figure out what screws I need. The clips won't cut it any more.

Or alternatively if I'm desperate to put noctua back in the case, what about as the rear CPU heatsink fan. It is not as efficient as BQ 120 on the push side so the question is if physics works out in my favor or not? 2 fans are definitely an option for U12S just what about different ones?

1705792577335.jpg1705792577339.jpg
 
I have a fan here (red) which helps push the GPU heat straight out of the rear. I did lots of temp testing and I was finding some heat soak working its way around to the CPU area from the GPU, even when idle or under light load. This fan helped bring my CPU temps down and it also keeps the GPU considerably cooler under load, which is a big bonus as those GPU fans can get noisy when they ramp up.

I wanted lots of big fans that could be run at low rpm for quietness and I focused more on removing heat rather than pushing cool air in. I was aware of creating negative pressure in the case and introducing a lot of dust, but it seems to have stayed clean. Perhaps the CPU heatsink and GPU fans have helped keep it in positive pressure. Most of the fans are filtered, but there's obviously the naturally gaps about the case to consider.


Untitled-1.jpg
 
gman said:
I have a fan here (red) which helps push the GPU heat straight out of the rear. I did lots of temp testing and I was finding some heat soak working its way around to the CPU area from the GPU, even when idle or under light load. This fan helped bring my CPU temps down and it also keeps the GPU considerably cooler under load, which is a big bonus as those GPU fans can get noisy when they ramp up.

I wanted lots of big fans that could be run at low rpm for quietness and I focused more on removing heat rather than pushing cool air in. I was aware of creating negative pressure in the case and introducing a lot of dust, but it seems to have stayed clean. Perhaps the CPU heatsink and GPU fans have helped keep it in positive pressure. Most of the fans are filtered, but there's obviously the naturally gaps about the case to consider.


View attachment 412588
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That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how exactly it could be mounted in this position?
Original HDD cages are too solid and would seriously restrict airflow of bottom intake fan.

You could probably replicate the effect by running bottom fan at much higher rpm than the rest but I'm not too keen on this past maybe +150rpm
 
LongLensPhotography said:
That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how exactly it could be mounted in this position?
Original HDD cages are too solid and would seriously restrict airflow of bottom intake fan.

You could probably replicate the effect by running bottom fan at much higher rpm than the rest but I'm not too keen on this past maybe +150rpm
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I think I used a very small N52 magnet and small piece of metal. Would need to check, but it stays in place pretty firmly. Obviously care has to be taken with the magnet! lol
 
gman said:
I think I used a very small N52 magnet and small piece of metal. Would need to check, but it stays in place pretty firmly. Obviously care has to be taken with the magnet! lol
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what about a straight 3M double sided tape skipping the magnet altogether? Or cable ties after removing the plastic cover?

I looked up some FLIR heat maps of Nvidia 3060 Ti. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...RM6LwRZEBPadM&w=640&h=480&source=sh/x/im/m1/2
Both sides look pretty hot when under load, but no hotter than my CPU can get. The worst affected part would be the WD NVME gen4 /w heatsink.
Nvidia is reporting 31-35C, nvme around 41C under fairly idle conditions. NVME is hotter, but then gen4 are also known to generate more heat themselves so it is hard to assign it without FLIR camera.
I wonder if the extra fan is better off being raised a little on a platform so that the centre is the height of the GPU? In a way this is what the intake fans are already doing in my setup, only that there is a 17cm gap, Perhaps a smaller case would have an advantage here but that's just purely academic.
 
I can't see why 3M wouldn't work. I only used a magnet as I had it handy and wanted a bit of flexibility to move it slightly.

Re. temps, I probably wouldn't look to much into heatmaps and other external info because of differences with case designs, fan types, cfm rates etc. I just went with the reported CPU and GPU temps because ultimately that is was is accurate to my specific setup.

At low rpm I was surprised at the drop off in airflow from the front case fans which is why I started playing with a fan in-between to help the airflow along. Whilst the 3060 does have an exhaust, I suspected that the fans were also throwing lots of hot air out to the side and then it's possible that it was getting circulated around the case instead of being pushed out of rear - which is where this custom case fan comes in to play.

I think it is large enough to create a little airflow over the other side of the card as well, I'll need to check though. There is also the motherboard chipset fan, but I have that turned off because it's tiny and very noisy. I found that it has to be on almost full power to create a measly 1-2°C difference with the chipset, but that always stays cool anyway so it's not worth it.

Argus Monitor is a great bit of software though, I did some tweaking last night with my fan profiles so that they don't start to increase up until the temps are over 70°C (YouTube has recently started to hit the CPU and can push it into 60°C) so keeping things quieter for longer. It's all on the fly, so very convenient for testing rather than having to go into BIOS etc.
 
gman said:
I suspected that the fans were also throwing lots of hot air out to the side and then it's possible that it was getting circulated around the case instead of being pushed out of rear - which is where this custom case fan comes in to play
Click to expand...
Here is the airflow diagram of 30x0 Fe card
So it goes two ways under heavy load: Out through the thin exhaust and up through the right fan. In my case that feeds it straight into u12s fan. This is where you'd want a centered top fan (I can't have it). Something like d15 may be big enough to cause the airflow to bounce of off the heatsink and hopefully get picked up by exhaust before too long. I guess both are not ideal in their own ways.
I suspect the left fan may be at least partially sucking in air through the gaps in pcie covers. Dust build up around that area would indicate so.
Non Fe models configuration may varry. I have Fe so that's directly relevant and so is the heat map of cards in isolation.

However ZERO rpm mode is much more relevant for my typical use case scenario. The heat maps suggest the whole card is radiating heat. The chip is somewhere in the middle. You need a pretty strong airflow from case fans to really change those temperatures; or more than I may be comfortable with. Or you just have to ignore it under a certain point like 60C.


gman said:
At low rpm I was surprised at the drop off in airflow from the front case fans
Click to expand...
Maybe inverse square law also applies here
 
If you want those fans to be anywhere near efficient you need to block all the mesh that is not served by the fans, that includes the holes right next to them and the expansion ports.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Here is the airflow diagram of 30x0 Fe card
So it goes two ways under heavy load: Out through the thin exhaust and up through the right fan. In my case that feeds it straight into u12s fan. This is where you'd want a centered top fan (I can't have it). Something like d15 may be big enough to cause the airflow to bounce of off the heatsink and hopefully get picked up by exhaust before too long. I guess both are not ideal in their own ways.
I suspect the left fan may be at least partially sucking in air through the gaps in pcie covers. Dust build up around that area would indicate so.
Non Fe models configuration may varry. I have Fe so that's directly relevant and so is the heat map of cards in isolation.

However ZERO rpm mode is much more relevant for my typical use case scenario. The heat maps suggest the whole card is radiating heat. The chip is somewhere in the middle. You need a pretty strong airflow from case fans to really change those temperatures; or more than I may be comfortable with. Or you just have to ignore it under a certain point like 60C.



Maybe inverse square law also applies here
Click to expand...

Yeah the rear section of the card is a big heatsink I think, so that fan will be pushing the hot air straight over the ram and into the path of the CPU heatsink fan. I'm not sure what other fans you have, but I've got two exhaust fans on top, so hopefully they will be pulling that heat straight up with some assistance from the front top fan. It would have been better if that GPU exhaust fan was the other way around and pushing the hot air downwards.

The CPU will be mainly about removing the heat via the CPU cooler fan and the rear exhaust, as opposed to getting cooler air over it from the front. I guess there will be some heat soak from the GPU.

One issue I have with that GPU airflow diagram is the incoming cool air. Without ramping up the RPM, I wasn't feeling very much airflow hitting the card which is why I've got that middle fan installed. Like I say, the temps is what guided me and they will be relevant to my specific case and setup. I'm sure there's always room for improvement, but I'm getting low temps so I'm not sure it would be worth doing any more to mine.


EDIT: I had a look and my custom fan in the middle does peek a little above the GPU card, but I doubt it will have any effect there.
 
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gman said:
Yeah the rear section of the card is a big heatsink I think, so that fan will be pushing the hot air straight over the ram and into the path of the CPU heatsink fan. I'm not sure what other fans you have, but I've got two exhaust fans on top, so hopefully they will be pulling that heat straight up with some assistance from the front top fan
Click to expand...
It sounds like you have that fully covered.
With a solid case top, the top fans unfortunately are not an option for me.

gman said:
It would have been better if that GPU exhaust fan was the other way around and pushing the hot air downwards.
Click to expand...
Hot air rises, so it may have something to do with that. This would also choke the left fan with the heat.

gman said:
The CPU will be mainly about removing the heat via the CPU cooler fan and the rear exhaust, as opposed to getting cooler air over it from the front. I guess there will be some heat soak from the GPU.
Click to expand...
You need the front fans to supply cooler air (17-20C) to the CPU cooler fan for maximum efficiency or else we are just recycling the warmed up (30-40C?) air around the case thus increasing the minimum achievable temperature and decreasing efficiency at the same time.

gman said:
I guess there will be some heat soak from the GPU.
Click to expand...
Yes, and I suspect the NVME & RAM suffer the most. However since the CPU is usually warmer than GPU in my case it is not likely a gamechanger, but the it doesn't help either.

gman said:
One issue I have with that GPU airflow diagram is the incoming cool air. Without ramping up the RPM, I wasn't feeling very much airflow hitting the card
Click to expand...
That makes perfect sense. I don't know how much gap you have between the intake and GPU, but it must be enough for most of that airflow to rise up to the CPU level by that point.. There is also quite low pressure at lower RPMs, and you have partial negative pressure on top half, so the GPU ends up sucking whatever air is left available. Thus I fully expect the left fan to fully feed of the ambient air though the vents, which is cool, but also dusty. So a mech cover on exhaust side would be desirable if running a negative pressure at any position in the case.
gman said:
why I've got that middle fan installed
Click to expand...
IF GPU temps are a problem it seems like the only option left unless you preferably can have a bottom fan in the right place. I think in my case a 3-fan GPU should make much better use of intake bottom fan, and may also benefit from bottom fan on the right corner. And no I am not going to run an replace it :LOL:. It should also benefit from [much] higher intake rpms in any scenario, which I am also not doing for the reasons specified in the title. I am not sure if it somehow possible to tell the BIOS to use either CPU or GPU temp, whichever is higher for the fan curves. It could be helpful; sometimes CPU sits close to idle and GPU is roasting.
 
Just a thought regarding the extra fan, and mounting it. Have you thought about using 3M hanging strips instead of double sided tape? The velcro is pretty dam strong. If it can hang pictures on a wall I can't see why it would have any problems with a fan. That way it can be removed for cleaning etc.
 
With regards to my thoughts in the last post... I did some not-very-scientific testing using my hand and ears as probes and here is what I believe is going on inside my case.

Right GPU fan gets a reasonable stream of air from the intake fans
Left fan is sitting in completely idle air, at any case fan rpm. So yes, it most likely sucks ambient air from outside.

I dropped a fan in as @gman suggested without actually taping it in.
1. It definitely improves airflow at the left fan
2. It has zero to negative effect for right fan airflow. RPM wants to match or even exceed case intake flow or it will restrict airflow going out.
3. My BIOS has no GPU temp sensor option(!) for fan speed control. That essentially fails it already
4. In cinebench GPU test I saw essentially no GPU temp difference either with or without the extra fan.
5. It made system noisier: A) Noctua NF-F12 is a little noisier than other BQ fans with notably different sound profile. B) the plastic clip on base cover may have been vibrated by the fan.
6. GPU temps and noise seem to be tolerable either way.

So in my case I conclude it is not beneficial.

I can have a play with the fan in the bottom right position; this will definitely pull more air into the case. I suspect this may go mostly up to the CPU, but it is worth testing if just enough still ends up going to the GPU.
I can use noctua for the testing, but I suspect I may want something newer if I decided to go ahead with it.
This would add up to a total of 3 intakes and 1 exhaust.

The final piece of the puzzle is the exhaust fan, BQ SW3 HS and exhaust vs intake speed ratio.
SW3 gets noisier than the newer SW4PRO at over 1000 rpm, so there may be some shifting and moving to do. I have restricted both intake and exhaust to around 1000rpm at max 85C (from 1150ish). This doesn't seem to affect temps in any major way. At 600ish rpm they are all pretty quiet.
 
Oh I didn't realise you couldn't have top fans with that case. That could be making a fair difference because as you say hot air rises, so it's great for using as a double chimney! lol

Argus Monitor allows you to choose exactly what component to take the temperature reading from with regard to each fan curve. I have that custom fan set to react to the GPU temperature and all the rest are set to react to the CPU temperature.

Here's an example from their website, You can see the drop down for CPU that can be changed to other temperature sources. You can also just have it set to a fixed manual rate or BIOS controlled etc. It's a great bit of software.

fancontrol_eng.png
 
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