Is DSLR about to die off?

DSLR's are at the peak of their development. While Mirrorless are moving on from that point, with an embarrassment of new development opportunities ahead of them. Most of which we can not yet even imagine.
The mirror box has been an impediment to progress.

Yup.

Looking at what are arguably the best at the mo, the Sony A7III and A9, these cameras bring things that are real benefits. Even my lowly original A7 with its ability to focus anywhere in the frame, face detect and WYSIWYG has enabled me to do things that would have been impossible with any film camera or DSLR I've had.

I saw the writing on the wall with the Panasonic GF1 and especially the G1. Things have moved on a lot from those early beginnings and it'll be mirrorless that pushes things forward, not DSLR's which have really just been a stop gap from film SLR's to the cameras we're beginning to see now, IMO.
 
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They won't. The D850, D5 etc will be replaced with better DSLRS. The mirroless will account for a small fraction of sales compared to the DSLRS and will do for quite some time.

If you mean by "quite some time". Five or six more years, then one or two of these cameras might be updated.
However the writing is on the wall for all to see.
 
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They won't. The D850, D5 etc will be replaced with better DSLRS. The mirroless will account for a small fraction of sales compared to the DSLRS and will do for quite some time.

TBH I'm more inclined to agree with the above posters who suggest the DSLR will become the preserve of the (older) professional, and mirrorless will fill up the consumer & enthusiast market. Some of this is self-inflicted, with Nikon and Canon making professional cameras important features missing (like fold out rear screens - why doesn't the D810 have one?). Yes, it's there on the D850, but that's 4 years too late, and here I am thinking about a used A7RII when the camera I REALLY want is a D810 with flippable screen and 200g less weight.
 
Yes, it's there on the D850, but that's 4 years too late, and here I am thinking about a used A7RII when the camera I REALLY want is a D810 with flippable screen and 200g less weight.

IIRC you have the D610 (I've been reprocessing images taken on it and they're really decent IQ wise). A D750 fits the bill and if you need more MP the D850. I myself don't care for the flippy screen but many many do. Lens wise if mass is a considering the F1.8 primes are feather light and could offset the extra mass of the body compared to a A7 and zoom.

I tried an A7 - I found it too small. The new Panasonic FF mirrorless looks far more to my liking, but then again I don't see what it would do what the 850 doesn't.

I'm not in the market, I have 2 D810's. I take care of my equipment and I imagine I'll be using them for at least 5 more years. I like the D810 and D800 series a lot.
 
If you mean by "quite some time". Five or six more years, then one or two of these cameras might be updated.
However the writing is on the wall for all to see.

They will, and will again. It will be another 10-15yrs before the DSLR really dies.

See when Nikon stop designing and releasing new F mount lens - then stop making them altogether - then you know they're done with them.
 
Insults aside, the reason for this thread IS the existance of serious mirrorless cameras from Nikon and Canon - they are perceived as being THE camera makers, and as long as they did not go down this route no-one would have considerd the likelihood of DSLRs disappearing.

NO-ONE is something of an exaggeration.
Though I did not foresee mirrorless cameras settling down to the general design that they are now. I was certainly pressing for a Mirrorless camera in a the form of plug in components, at the time I bought my First Dslr in 2007, as I saw no good reason to tie a viewfinder to a body. I also advocated mounting Sensors onto each lens as they could then be customised to it. These are all things that might yet happen. and in some respects already have.
 
IIRC you have the D610 (I've been reprocessing images taken on it and they're really decent IQ wise). A D750 fits the bill and if you need more MP the D850. I myself don't care for the flippy screen but many many do. Lens wise if mass is a considering the F1.8 primes are feather light and could offset the extra mass of the body compared to a A7 and zoom.

I tried an A7 - I found it too small. The new Panasonic FF mirrorless looks far more to my liking, but then again I don't see what it would do what the 850 doesn't.

I'm not in the market, I have 2 D810's. I take care of my equipment and I imagine I'll be using them for at least 5 more years. I like the D810 and D800 series a lot.

I do have a D610 and I like the image quality. A D750 would fill my requirements, but I was thinking more for what would have kept Nikon at the forefront of camera design instead of giving the crown away to Sony. D850 is too late TBH (and too bloomin expensive).
 
NO-ONE is something of an exaggeration.
Though I did not foresee mirrorless cameras settling down to the general design that they are now. I was certainly pressing for a Mirrorless camera in a the form of plug in components, at the time I bought my First Dslr in 2007, as I saw no good reason to tie a viewfinder to a body. I also advocated mounting Sensors onto each lens as they could then be customised to it. These are all things that might yet happen. and in some respects already have.

No-one as in it would not be a common or natural thought, rather than a human could never think it would happen. Just a figure of speech, and an exaggeration, as you say.

Your idea of modular approach is interesting, but would likely prove too expensive for consumers, who enable cameras to be mass-produced at the low prices we expect.
 
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I do have a D610 and I like the image quality. A D750 would fill my requirements, but I was thinking more for what would have kept Nikon at the forefront of camera design instead of giving the crown away to Sony. D850 is too late TBH (and too bloomin expensive).

But it is the best 35mm sensor going at the moment - taking the crown from the A7R - and you have all the lenses etc to go on it. I think though they should have upgraded the D750 (keep the body build the same) and slotted in the sensor from the D810. That would be a nice little camera and suitable for so many.
 
They will, and will again. It will be another 10-15yrs before the DSLR really dies.

See when Nikon stop designing and releasing new F mount lens - then stop making them altogether - then you know they're done with them.
they will have a small market for F mount lenses long after they stop making bodies for them. However new designs is a moot point even now. we are probably just seeing the emptying of a fairly long pipeline.
At the present pace of technological development 10 to 15 years is excessive. No one now invests serious money in a dying technology.
 
But it is the best 35mm sensor going at the moment - taking the crown from the A7R - and you have all the lenses etc to go on it. I think though they should have upgraded the D750 (keep the body build the same) and slotted in the sensor from the D810. That would be a nice little camera and suitable for so many.

One of the reasons I've not been more enthusiastic about the D810 is that my lenses are almost all old, cheap and relatively low quality, and I won't see a benefit. Only the Samyang 85 f1.4 is actually good enough to justify that sensor.
 
they will have a small market for F mount lenses long after they stop making bodies for them. However new designs is a moot point even now. we are probably just seeing the emptying of a fairly long pipeline.
At the present pace of technological development 10 to 15 years is excessive. No one now invests serious money in a dying technology.

If they do mk2 of the 14-24 and mk3 24-70 and 70-200 2.8 in F I think they'd be committed to making the cameras for them for quite some time. If they don't, I'll recant my words on this thread.

Time will tell.
 
Yawn...

But waking up from this cynical it's all marketing stupor for a moment and smelling the coffee one could possibly accept that mirrorless moves the game forward in several areas. For example... No faff on with MA, in view histograms, in view this that and the other, being able to see the exposure. DoF and all that WYSIWYG stuff, no more chimping and reshooting, the magnified view and being able to see things that aren't visible though an optical system, the fancy face and eye detect things that are for many genuine game changers, the list goes on. And from the manufacturers point of view mirrorless can be cheaper to make with no flippy flappie mirror assembly and alignment, no fiddly pentaprism or focus screen, possibly reduced warranty claims... It's very possibly a win win scenario. People using the kit get kit rich with features that can genuinely help and the manufacturers get to drop some of the stuff that makes the kit both potentially more expensive and problematic.

What's not to like? It's the future I tell you :D
I think that mirrorless is the future too, but I still maintain that DSLRs have some advantages. I do wish that they put the same level of external controls on mirrorless that they have on the higher end DSLRs, I hate having to delve into menus to change shooting options etc.

With regards to the chimping comment, I chimp just as much with mirrorless as I do with DSLR. I don't chimp to check exposure, I chimp to ensure critical focus (y)
 
But it is the best 35mm sensor going at the moment - taking the crown from the A7R - and you have all the lenses etc to go on it. I think though they should have upgraded the D750 (keep the body build the same) and slotted in the sensor from the D810. That would be a nice little camera and suitable for so many.

It is interesting that Fuji have taken their best sensor and processor from the XT 3 and put it into their new second tier XT30 and why not?
 
They won't. The D850, D5 etc will be replaced with better DSLRS. The mirroless will account for a small fraction of sales compared to the DSLRS and will do for quite some time.

It's a bit tricky to find numbers on this, but I did find a link to a worldwide unit sales graph stating CIPA data as the source, which showed a steep decline in overall sales, but with a increase in mirror-less - so that in 2017 (the most recent data on the link I found), total unit sales of DSLR were ~7.6M, while mirror-less sold ~ 4M units (2016 was 8.5M vs 3.2M).
Assuming this is valid data (and anything you can't link back to it's actual origin has to be treated with some suspicion), then mirror-less is far more than a small fraction of total unit sales.

Now that Canon and Nikon have released their FF mirror-less, I suspect we will see far fewer, if any, new DSLR from them - they have both gone to some lengths to make the transition from DSLR to mirror-less as easy as possible for existing owners, and are bringing out a range of high quality mirror-less only lenses.
They will continue to sell the existing DSLR, as they are undoubtedly good cameras, but R&D will be focused on improving their mirror-less offerings, to try and catch up with Sony in the areas they are currently behind in.
 
One of the reasons I've not been more enthusiastic about the D810 is that my lenses are almost all old, cheap and relatively low quality, and I won't see a benefit. Only the Samyang 85 f1.4 is actually good enough to justify that sensor.

Ah. D750 would be the fit for you.

But I take the point - if you are not invested that heavily in the F mount system and you feel it's going the way of the dodo it would make sense not to invest further into it. I'm fully invested with sigma ART primes and 2.8 zooms etc, multiple bodies.
 
Ah. D750 would be the fit for you.

But I take the point - if you are not invested that heavily in the F mount system and you feel it's going the way of the dodo it would make sense not to invest further into it. I'm fully invested with sigma ART primes and 2.8 zooms etc, multiple bodies.

If a D750 appeared in the classifieds now at the right price and condition I'd buy it this afternoon. I am also genuinely tempted by a D810 for the benefit it would bring my landscape work, now they're down to £1100-1200ish, but that would demand ART lenses to match, and a PC upgrade, else there's little point. At present I have around £600-700 in lenses for my Nikon system, all bought used, and I would probably get 75% of that back if I sold up now. I don't WANT to do that yet, and if I did then whatever system I moved to would have some distinct disadvantages over my present setup, plus I'd have to re-learn the system, get used to processing differently etc. Yet now might well be the best time for it, and I only came to use Nikon by accident, being a sony user previously.
 
If a D750 appeared in the classifieds now at the right price and condition I'd buy it this afternoon. I am also genuinely tempted by a D810 for the benefit it would bring my landscape work, now they're down to £1100-1200ish, but that would demand ART lenses to match, and a PC upgrade, else there's little point. At present I have around £600-700 in lenses for my Nikon system, all bought used, and I would probably get 75% of that back if I sold up now. I don't WANT to move to do that yet, and if I did then whatever system I moved to would have some distinct disadvantages over my present setup, plus I'd have to re-learn the system, get used to processing differently etc. Yet now might well be the best time for it, and I only came to use Nikon by accident, being a sony user previously.

At some stage you will need a new computer - truth be told if it can handle the 610 files the 810 ones aren't as big a leap as you think. Lenses are the big thing and if you are concerned the F mount system is going obsolete you might not wish to spend all that doh on new lenses....

Then again the D810 is just wonderful and I wouldn't, bar a D850 or Phase One system, have anything else.
 
Some of us have moved on to Mirrorless because we prefer them to Dslr's .
They already suit me far better. I have not used my Dslr, or lenses since I bought mine. nor do I expect to.
 
I’m surprised at the existence of this thread ‘now’. The Sony A7iii was released ages ago and we didn’t get such threads then. Neither Nikon and especially not Canons offerings improved on the Sony so why such statements now and not a year ago?

It is amusing following some big photographers on Instagram who have recently been *given* mirrorless cameras from CaNikon going crazy over silent shutters and WYSIWYG EVFs etc like they are brand new inventions, yet talked down Fuji/Sony for the past 5 years or so.

Influencers will play a big part in enabling the switch, it's hard to underestimate just how important they are to the industry now.
 
Some of us have moved on to Mirrorless because we prefer them to Dslr's .
They already suit me far better. I have not used my Dslr, or lenses since I bought mine. nor do I expect to.

That's interesting - is it just the size reductuction, the live view or something else?

At some stage you will need a new computer - truth be told if it can handle the 610 files the 810 ones aren't as big a leap as you think. Lenses are the big thing and if you are concerned the F mount system is going obsolete you might not wish to spend all that doh on new lenses....

Then again the D810 is just wonderful and I wouldn't, bar a D850 or Phase One system, have anything else.

I'm just thinking about the things that make me want to upgrade the D610, and the only significant weaknesses are the AF system (I always manual focus using the indicator in low light, because it's more reliable) and the rear screen being fixed. Outside of that I'd be happy to keep shooting with it until the body wears out.

But stepping back, right now the obvious camera is a Sony A7rII, along with a standard zoom, ART 35 or 50 and an adapter for some of my Nikon lenses.
 
Do all EVF's still look like the horizontal hold needs a kick under certain artificial lighting, and black out if you're wearing polaroids and turn the camera to portrait orientation?
 
Do all EVF's still look like the horizontal hold needs a kick under certain artificial lighting, and black out if you're wearing polaroids and turn the camera to portrait orientation?

I don't know of any that fit that description - Fuji?
 
I've used Panasonic and Fuji and they were both guilty - and the rear screen on my D750 was scrolling this morning.

Now I understand what you mean. The only time I saw lines on my Sony EVF was when taking pictures of acrylaide gels on a fluorescent lit lightbox, and I haven't noticed it on the Olympus either. If you do lots of indoor work under fluorescent or LED light then EVFs are probably not for you.
 
They won't. The D850, D5 etc will be replaced with better DSLRS. The mirroless will account for a small fraction of sales compared to the DSLRS and will do for quite some time.

The D5 might but what would they replace the D850 with? I think it's peaked and the issue worsens over time as their other products improve, it's hard to justify a £3.5K + cost when it won't even support their newer lenses (which are eventually going to matter).

Long term predictions usually lead to egg on faces but I feel fairly confident saying the D850 won't have a DSLR replacement.
 
The dslr will die because because canon/nikon/sony/.......... have made an alternative and need to make money. "About" is a relative term so, all those who have just sold a kidney on eBay so they can own a 1dx mk2 need not worry. A 1dx2 will still (on the correct arms) take great pictures. So, to my mind, the fanboys will decide.
 
The D5 might but what would they replace the D850 with? I think it's peaked and the issue worsens over time as their other products improve, it's hard to justify a £3.5K + cost when it won't even support their newer lenses (which are eventually going to matter).

Long term predictions usually lead to egg on faces but I feel fairly confident saying the D850 won't have a DSLR replacement.

People said they peaked with the D700...

They haven't. They newest will always be better.

Given the vast F mount user base and demand for new bodies, they'd be mad not to make a D6 or D900 DSLR- they will. Trust me.
 
Now I understand what you mean. The only time I saw lines on my Sony EVF was when taking pictures of acrylaide gels on a fluorescent lit lightbox, and I haven't noticed it on the Olympus either. If you do lots of indoor work under fluorescent or LED light then EVFs are probably not for you.
I use the EVF in preference to the OVF in my Fuji X100T (mostly because it shows me the precise framing) and it only bugs me under fluorescents. They have certainly come a long way from the tiny ones in the early bridge cameras I used.
 
That's interesting - is it just the size reductuction, the live view or something else?

.

For me the size and weight are acceptable and not that different to my old OM1
The lenses are a far more reasonable size and weight to those for a Dslr.
The EVF is far more versatile than a Prism /mirror finder.
Hybrid focusing is inherently more precise on all lenses than that on a Dslr.
eye and face detection is increasing in speed and accuracy.
There is far less shutter/ mirror vibration.
they can have a very high burst rate. using the mechanical or electronic shutter
They can be used silently
They can be used with a wireless device/screen as a finder/ controller.
Fuji has all the controls in the right places, and that can be customised to taste, so as to rarely need to dip into the menu system.
Every thing else is equal to that found on a Dslr.

All the lenses are "new generation" and extremely high definition with little if any distortion or residual aberrations.
Residual distortions and aberrations and some diffraction softening are completely removed in the camera firmware.
 
I doubt DSLRs will disappear as fast as some of the mirrorless enthusiasts think, particularly where high-spec pro DSLRs are concerned. After all, Nikon still make a 35mm film SLR (the F6 - currently around $2500 if you want one) and Canon only discontinued their last 35mm SLR (the EOS 1v) in May 2018.
 
I doubt DSLRs will disappear as fast as some of the mirrorless enthusiasts think, particularly where high-spec pro DSLRs are concerned. After all, Nikon still make a 35mm film SLR (the F6 - currently around $2500 if you want one) and Canon only discontinued their last 35mm SLR (the EOS 1v) in May 2018.

They still assemble some to order, but they are using stock parts. when those have gone they are gone.
 
They still assemble some to order, but they are using stock parts. when those have gone they are gone.
The point is that the demise of the DLSR will take longer than some people think. For instance, weren't iPads, notebooks and tablets supposed to kill off sales of laptop computers?
 
For me the size and weight are acceptable and not that different to my old OM1
The lenses are a far more reasonable size and weight to those for a Dslr.
.

Have you seen the Canon 50mm 1.2 for the r series? it's huge. The canon 28-70 f2 is a monster, much bigger than the closest 24-70 2.8.
That said, f2.0 is a whopping great hole in the lens.
 
I think the big boys will still turn out the odd DSLR, especially entry level, however my feeling is that we've kind of reached the pinnacle of what these things can offer and new bodies are only an incremental upgrade of the previous version and as such probably not enough to tempt a lot of users to upgrade.
I think DLSR's will be aimed at the higher price points, as we have already seen Nikon taking features away from their base cameras to penny pinch, sorry, save money. :rolleyes: As parts become used in less cameras, the cost of parts will rise, so you aim for where the money is. Imho.
DSLR's are at the peak of their development. While Mirrorless are moving on from that point, with an embarrassment of new development opportunities ahead of them. Most of which we can not yet even imagine.
The mirror box has been an impediment to progress.
What is the problem with putting the sensors developed for mirrorless into DSLR's! You could get a similar AF performance when the mirror is up, and any other sensor benefits, whilst also using the sensors in multiple cameras to save on development cost, especially when the overall market is shrinking, and take advantage of the economy of scale.
They won't. The D850, D5 etc will be replaced with better DSLRS. The mirroless will account for a small fraction of sales compared to the DSLRS and will do for quite some time.
I linked to an article earlier, though links are a bit hard to see in the new design, ;) but a split about 60-40 in favour of DSLR's in 2018 was in an article posted by Photo Rumors along with other statistics, and the trend is only moving in one direction. 40% is not a small fraction for me. Yvmv. Now that Canon and Nikon have gone FF mirrorless the shift to mirrolress cameras being the majority of interchangeable lens cameras sold will come even sooner.
It will be interesting to see whether mirrorless takes over the apsc market. Mirrorless is almost made for cheap cameras. It cuts out all the precision fitting of mechanical/optical elements and replaces them with consumer electronics. These can be mass produced cheaply. Cut the sensor size down to apsc and the cost of the sensor and glass drop a lot.
I'm not sure the crop sensor is in their thinking for the most part. They seem to be going for mid to high cost FF mirrorless cameras, and the even more expensive lenses to go with them, I don't see how crop sensor mirrorless cameras are a benefit for Canon, Nikon or Sony. With DSLR's the crop sensor was a step needed to get affordable cameras when the cost of FF sensors was huge, and the cameras were able to be smaller. Now the cost difference between the different sensors may not be so large, especially if a higher proportion of sensors are FF sensors, and the camera can now also be small with a FF sensor, what would be the point of a slightly smaller camera, that there would be hardly any lenses for! :thinking: So as the the need to design lenses for crop sensor cameras may not be there, which they seemed to do half heartedly anyway, they put all their resources towards FF mirrorless cameras and lenses, rather than fracture the market when they don't need to.

Canon's M series may have been from when they were unsure as to go FF mirrorless, and wanted to test the water without impeding on their DSLR sales because the format does not seem to fit with the EOS R cameras and lenses in any way. Sony don't seem to be in a great hurry to update and improve their cropped sensor mirrorless cameras, or put too many lenses designed for crop sensor cameras out there too. Nikon seem to be struggling to do FF mirrorless cameras and lenses well, as well as keep on doing DSLR cameras and lenses, so to throw in a cropped mirrorless option, with potentially lenses designed only for cropped sensors, wouldn't gain them much imho, as the limiting factor for the size of their cameras (and Canon) now is the lens mount size. And are they big enough to have that many irons in the fire! I don't think so.
 
I've just been looking through lenses for Sony FE mirrorless, and they follow the modern trend of making the lens larger than they used to be 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm etc. Many of those lenses in Nikon D-AF form were quite small and light. Yes, image definition & resolution have increased, sometimes alongwith aperture (which brings it's own penalty) but generally the lenses are big compared a couple of generations back.

I'd agree that lenses for M43 are a lot smaller for the consumer grade, although even then the 'pro' lenses don't seem all that small.
 
Have you seen the Canon 50mm 1.2 for the r series? it's huge. The canon 28-70 f2 is a monster, much bigger than the closest 24-70 2.8.
That said, f2.0 is a whopping great hole in the lens.

That is true which is why I have gone Fuji who make excellent quality compact lenses, but they make both standard (Around F2 F2.8) and wide aperture varieties.
I am finding it hard to take the Canon mirrorless cameras seriously.
 
I find it hard to understand why an amateur needs a full frame sensor, as at the sizes most of us might print at results can be look good from an APS sensor.
For viewing on a computer screen, even that is overkill.
Many professionals find Aps sufficient for the sort of work they do. Were I not retired and still a working photographer, I think I would skip Full Frame and have both APS and medium format kits.
 
I'm curious to know if anyone is using the likes of a Canon 100-400 or Tamron / Sigma 150-600 on a lighter body mirroless body?
 
I find it hard to understand why an amateur needs a full frame sensor, as at the sizes most of us might print at results can be look good from an APS sensor.
For viewing on a computer screen, even that is overkill.
Many professionals find Aps sufficient for the sort of work they do. Were I not retired and still a working photographer, I think I would skip Full Frame and have both APS and medium format kits.
I have little wish or need for FF cameras, but I understand why other (non pro's ;)) may want FF. Like those who want a Ferrari or Porsche may not be pro drivers, and may hardly ever go above 70mph, some of the reasons they may want such cars is because they may give a better driving experience, and can handle the extremes easier, or they may just want the best option with the money they have. If only pro's were buying FF cameras, firstly there would not be as many FF options, and secondly what was available would be many times more expensive. Who cares what pro's do! ;) :LOL:
 
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