ISO affecting file size?

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I just picked up a Canon 6D to replace a Canon 5D. It's the first time I've been able to see the true shot count available to the memory card over 1000 shots. The Camera says I can get 1169 shots onto a 32Gb card, but that changes to 1120 when I switch from ISO 1600 to 3200 and then down to 1071 at ISO 6400. Can any explain this? I was under the impression that ISO only changed the signal amplification from the sensor and don't see how it would change what information is stored.
 
I don't know this as fact, but maybe more noise makes for less efficient compression and therefore larger file sizes? That's certainly the case with video compression. That the camera anticipates this is surprising though. Either it demonstrates obsessive attention to detail by the designers or there's a completely different explanation.
 
It is indeed caused by noise reducing the ability to compress the RAW file.

Bob
 
Noise, while unwanted, is still extra image information which will increase file size
 
Ive had this on both my 450D and 5D3 the exception for me is going from 100 down to 50 you get to take less shots at iso50 too

This caught my interest so I did some googling and it seems that dropping the ISO to 50 also results in more noise

http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/9263/why-cant-the-iso-level-on-most-digital-cameras-be-set-below-80

Basically it seems like anything other than the native ISO of the sensor will result in more noise and consequently larger files. Kudos to Canon for thinking to fold that into their algorithm for calculating remaining shots.
 
But I thought RAW was just that: RAW sensor data simply encapsulated into a manufacturer proprietary file structure. I didn't think RAW was compressed in any way. It should still have information for each pixel from the sensor. If you have 100 pixels all noise free, then you have data for 100 pixels. If you have 100 that are comprised of 50% noise, then you're still storing data for 100 pixels, regardless of what "colour" they are. I still don't understand why noise would be affecting file size.
 
Many raw formats allow for lossless compression, so you still have all the original information, but the filesize is smaller. And all compression algorithms vary in effectiveness depending on how much, and what type, of information is in the scene, it's not just a matter of absolute pixel numbers. Since the camera isn't doing anything to remove the noise from the file structure, it has to be treated as "information" and so the file size will depend on the noise level.
 
But I thought RAW was just that: RAW sensor data simply encapsulated into a manufacturer proprietary file structure. I didn't think RAW was compressed in any way. It should still have information for each pixel from the sensor. If you have 100 pixels all noise free, then you have data for 100 pixels. If you have 100 that are comprised of 50% noise, then you're still storing data for 100 pixels, regardless of what "colour" they are. I still don't understand why noise would be affecting file size.

Doesn't quite work like that.

Go take a photo at ISO 100 with the lens cap on.
Now over expose a photo so there is no detail.
Not take a correctly exposed shot.

Look, different file sizes.

Now I don't know the ins and outs of how sensors are constructed, but sensors have photo sites that record data which then undergoes processing to become a raw format. This is the key, the stuff that comes off the sensor must undergo some processing in order to output as a file.
 
There's a Wikipedia article on RAW files here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_image_format

I'm not surprised to hear that lossless compression is sometimes used. That's of benefit because it means the buffer is cleared faster, since less data needs to be written to the memory card. What's surprising though it that lossy compression is sometimes used.
 
This is the key, the stuff that comes off the sensor must undergo some processing in order to output as a file.

It doesn't even need to be processed as such in order to have different file sizes. Jut deciding how to write down (save) an image will have this effect. To get an idea of why compression might vary with information we can do a simple thought experiment. Imagine a simple sensor - it's one row of pixels (say, 256 of them) and they are binary - they only see light or dark. We take our image and want to write it down to save it. Since each pixel sees light or dark, we may as well write a 1 for light and a 0 for dark - it will save on paper. The simplest way of saving the image is just to write down, in order, the pixel values. Let's write down a sample image:
1001100001.... and so on for the rest of the pixels, all the way to the end.

However, looking at it, you can straight away see a way of saving space. Instead of writing each pixel, lets write the number of pixels of the same value that occur one after another and if only one of those values occurs, we can just write it down. So on the image above we have:
A single one, so write 1
two zeros, so write 20
two ones, so 21
four zeros, so 40
and for the sake of argument, let's assume the final one that I wrote was indeed single one, so it becomes 1
The written down image is now 12021401
We've used 8 numbers to represent the original 10 pixels that I wrote down. It's a compression algorithm!

Straight away you can see that an all dark image or all bright image is very easy to compress - for our 256 pixel sensor it would be 2560 or 2561: a compression factor of 64 on our "file size". You can also see how, the more useful information in the image, the less compression we can get away with - an alternative pattern of 10101010... cannot be compressed in our scheme. A mathematician called Shannon came up with a way of generalising this to any scheme and showed that this is always true - if you want to do lossless compression, then there is a minimum size that you can compress to, no matter what the scheme is. Some schemes will, however, get closer to this limit than others. It also explains why you won't get much change out of using a zip programme on a jpeg - depending on the quality setting of your jpeg they are already pretty efficiently packed and so can't get much smaller.


An interesting side effect is that with most ( or perhaps all - I can't remember) schemes, there will be images that when "compressed" will end up larger than the original image due to the extra information required to decode them (e.g. the "4" in the "40" part of the pretend image we compressed in the example)

Ps. Please never use the scheme I showed for real compression - it's stupid and breaks easily! It's just a nice tutorial example :)
 
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