It’s probably time to update the iMac- what now?

rob-nikon

rob-nikon

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My 21.5 inch iMac is now 8 years old (late 2012 2.7GHz i5, 8GB, 1TB hard drive). Considering that it’s still going well but it’s starting to be to slow down running Lightroom. Last year I shifted the OS to an external SSD and that made things faster but I think this year could be time to later looking at replacing it.

My key wants are:

* 512GB SSD (I have external storage for RAW’s and backup drives so is the minimum I’d likely need)
* Min 16GB but really up to 32GB in the future (I’ve had a look and 2x 8GB is currently £65 from Crucial)

* Good processor suitable for Lightroom.

I currently have some thunderbolt 2 external hard drives for RAWs, backup and portable storage docks so I would look at keeping them (I would need an adapter to thunderbolt 3).

I’ve been reading a few reviews about iMacs and it seems the best route would be the 27 inch, probably the top end version with an upgrade to 512GB SSD and maybe the i9 processor. I’ve decided I’d be best to upgrade the RAM later myself. That’s one of the reasons why I’ve decided the 21.5 inch isn’t worth going, I’d need to upgrade RAM, storage and possibly processor all on purchase and works out to be just as much as a 27 inch without the RAM (which I could update later), and I’m not paying £540 for 32GB RAM from Apple when it’s around £120 from Crucial!).

IMac’s are annoying that you can’t upgrade storage or RAM (on the 21.5 inch) at a later date, that means I’d need to look at what I really need now and potentially in the future when I purchase it. Why Apple don’t include SSD as standard I will never know.
I’ve costed up a few options on apples website:

Low end with 512SSD
0E9CD996-6004-462C-B8B4-916958AFC015.jpeg

High end with 512GB SSD
3ACC9904-2A98-4A20-BC94-938FCDA400B6.jpeg


High end with 512GB SSD and upgrade processor.
23C9A275-16F1-454C-99E5-396DD8D2CB91.jpeg

Other questions are would a second hand/refurbished iMac be worth considering? I’m guessing it’s harder to find a upgraded version as many buy them with fusion disks rather than SSD’s.

Does anyone have an idea when the iMacs will be updated again? The current version is early 2019. Is a 2020 coming out soon?

I’d potentially consider a PC again but I’d need to consider a good screen as I don’t have one at present. Another option I’d consider is a laptop with docking station and screen.

I have used an iMac for 7 years I’m happy with them. This will be a long term purchase, most likely 8-10 years again so it’s got to last that time. I’m presently carrying out initial research into the options and what the potential cost is.

PLEASE NOTE: I DONT WANT THIS THREAD TURNING INTO A PC V MAC DEBATE. IT ISN'T ABOUT WHATS BETTER. ITS ABOUT HELPING SPEC A SUITABLE REPLACEMENT.
 
You'll get more performance per £ from a unit that uses desktop components due to heat management issues and clock speeds. If you want an Apple system then you should buy the 'best' one you can afford, especially considering the expected lifespan, but if you just want the most bang for your buck then you already know you'll need to buy non-Apple.

There are lots of good screens around, and I suspect you'd get something really good for £400-£500.
 
Do you need it to look pretty or not, where will the unit be placed (top of desk, floor, well ventilated cabinet)?

Ive recently built my PC after owning a late 27" 2013 iMac (external SSD), was a great machine but I wanted a decent upgrade for lightrooms crappy performance (a surprisingly poorly developed app). I really wanted a nice looking computer after owning macs and PCs and although it cost a little more going mini ITX I am glad that I did as I can have a tower on my desk that looks really good.

CCL do some very good systems that you can customise, Id avoid Intel CPU, Ryzen is just better VFM/Performance current gen.

Apple updates are usually around September.
 
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Well one thing I found after moving from PC to Mac in 2014/2015 is that if you buy the best spec you can afford at the time it lasts!! My current iMac 5K is a late 2015 i7 4ghz which I bought with an 1TB SSD. I got the system with 8GB but immediately upgraded it myself to 32GB. For photo editing it's as fast today as it was when I got it and if wasn't for the fact that that I do more video now it would last for years more but I will buy a new one soon, just trying to decide if I go for an iMac Pro or the new Mac Pro.

The 5K screen on the iMac is really good (IMO) definitely a plus for the iMac.

The new 16inch MacBook Pro is excellent, the best Apple has made for a while and a good choice if you need portability but maybe not if you don't.

The rumours are the Apple will release a new design iMac this year, probably loosing the bezels around the screen etc. When that would be though is a guess but probably mid year at best.

The problem with tech is it's always changing and you can always wait for next new thing and get nowhere.

So at the end of the day, I'd probably say get the best iMac 5K you can afford, upgrade the RAM yourself (it's easy to do) and know that you won't have to look for another computer for quite a few years.
 
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You can see how processors bench with LR here... the current 8th gen intel used in the 27 imac (i5-8500) isnt even on the list. The 3700x and 3600 Ryzens are probably the best bang for buck (I went 3600X, an overclocked 3600 variant with better stock cooler and slightly faster boost freq than the 3600). For 2k you will get a monster computer.

pic_disp.jpg
 
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I’m not thinking that the iMac range will be upgraded for a good couple of years. Go for a 27 inch with minimal memory and upgrade that from Crucial as you suggest. SSD rather than Fusion - and future-proof by going 1tb. Just go mid-range on the processor as Lightroom isn’t too processor-heavy. Put the LR catalogue on the internal SSD and the images on an external.
 
Stephen L said:
I’m not thinking that the iMac range will be upgraded for a good couple of years. Go for a 27 inch with minimal memory and upgrade that from Crucial as you suggest. SSD rather than Fusion - and future-proof by going 1tb. Just go mid-range on the processor as Lightroom isn’t too processor-heavy. Put the LR catalogue on the internal SSD and the images on an external.
Click to expand...

Lightroom is very processor intensive.
 
ancient_mariner said:
You'll get more performance per £ from a unit that uses desktop components due to heat management issues and clock speeds. If you want an Apple system then you should buy the 'best' one you can afford, especially considering the expected lifespan, but if you just want the most bang for your buck then you already know you'll need to buy non-Apple.

There are lots of good screens around, and I suspect you'd get something really good for £400-£500.
Click to expand...
I know I could get more bang for buck going PC but it’s the longevity that would concern me. I’m not the most knowledgeable PC user and every PC I’ve had has slowed down quite a bit, probably because I didn’t not know how to properly maintain them. I don’t think I have the knowledge or experience to be able to build a PC from components. That’s probably where the biggest saving is made.

twist said:
Do you need it to look pretty or not, where will the unit be placed (top of desk, floor, well ventilated cabinet)?
Click to expand...
My computer has more to a desk that built into our kitchen so it is quite on show. Looking pretty isn’t the highest priority but the smaller form the better as the desk space is around 1m wide 0.6m deep. A tower unit could on the floor beneath the desk if required.

Jase said:
Well one thing I found after moving from PC to Mac in 2014/2015 is that if you buy the best spec you can afford at the time it lasts!! My current iMac 5K is a late 2015 i7 4ghz which I bought with an 1TB SSD. I got the system with 8GB but immediately upgraded it myself to 32GB. For photo editing it's as fast today as it was when I got it and if wasn't for the fact that that I do more video now it would last for years more but I will buy a new one soon, just trying to decide if I go for an iMac Pro or the new Mac Pro.

The 5K screen on the iMac is really good (IMO) definitely a plus for the iMac.

The new 16inch MacBook Pro is excellent, the best Apple has made for a while and a good choice if you need portability but maybe not if you don't.

The rumours are the Apple will release a new design iMac this year, probably loosing the bezels around the screen etc. When that would be though is a guess but probably mid year at best.

The problem with tech is it's always changing and you can always wait for next new thing and get nowhere.

So at the end of the day, I'd probably say get the best iMac 5K you can afford, upgrade the RAM yourself (it's easy to do) and know that you won't have to look for another computer for quite a few years.
Click to expand...
that’s the biggest issue is overspeccing as you can’t upgrade in the future (apart from RAM on the 27 inch). The problem is up not sure whether I’d need the upgraded processor or not. 512GB SSD would be ok but a 1TB would be better.

My iMac is still running so it’s not an immediate requirement to update it. I could wait until the end of the year to see if a new iMac is released. I would expect it to be even more than it now.
 
rob-nikon said:
My iMac is still running so it’s not an immediate requirement to update it. I could wait until the end of the year to see if a new iMac is released. I would expect it to be even more than it now.
Click to expand...

If it's still working fine and you're not in a rush then wait a bit. I'm pretty sure Apple will have a new iMac this year and you never know they may do a 32 inch for similar price, everyone expected the 16 inch MacBook Pro to be a new high end model but it just replaced the 15 inch really.
 
twist said:
You can see how processors bench with LR here... the current 8th gen intel used in the 27 imac (i5-8500) isnt even on the list. The 3700x and 3600 Ryzens are probably the best bang for buck (I went 3600X, an overclocked 3600 variant with better stock cooler and slightly faster boost freq than the 3600). For 2k you will get a monster computer.

View attachment 264931
Click to expand...
I know your right about quality of components but sadly I don’t have the knowledge to spec and build a PC. I’d need to buy it built.

Stephen L said:
I’m not thinking that the iMac range will be upgraded for a good couple of years. Go for a 27 inch with minimal memory and upgrade that from Crucial as you suggest. SSD rather than Fusion - and future-proof by going 1tb. Just go mid-range on the processor as Lightroom isn’t too processor-heavy. Put the LR catalogue on the internal SSD and the images on an external.
Click to expand...
That’s my thinking but when I’ve priced up the mid range and top end with 1TB SSD there is only £120 in it to go up to the 9th gen i5 processor and better graphics card.

390D83EA-2EEC-4DC0-BB61-B64969723D67.jpegED1C98AC-6844-4E88-B725-BAB07B4C199F.jpeg

It’s whether the top end processor would be worth it but that would probably mean a 512GB SSD to keep the price down a bit.
 
Jase said:
If it's still working fine and you're not in a rush then wait a bit. I'm pretty sure Apple will have a new iMac this year and you never know they may do a 32 inch for similar price, everyone expected the 16 inch MacBook Pro to be a new high end model but it just replaced the 15 inch really.
Click to expand...
I think I will be waiting a bit just to see what happens. At the moment it’s an initial research into what I’d potentially need. At the moment I think it’s either of these specs, and depends on if it’s better to go with the top processor or 1TB SSD.

F3259392-A7D9-4D3E-A96C-210208454D18.jpeg

AF1DF7FB-4088-4682-B7D2-E30AE174DE6B.jpeg

It’s kind of scary it’s potentially £2.8k but I’ve spent more on camera/lenses before :oops: :$

A per year cost if kept a long time is a more manageable £250-300 per year and that includes OS updates so isn’t so bad.
 
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Why not a Mac mini ?

I bought one last year and it's performance is exceptional. £1609 for a 512 GB SSD, 16gb Ram. Fastest Processor available.

Dougie.
 
for 2.5K i would want more than 8gb of ram and an i5 processor, silly low specs for the cash

PC with the spec below, first year onsite warrantly plus spend £450 on a monitor and you get a a massively better spec unit with future expansion. for the same cash as the first mac!
  • Intel Core i7 9700F Eight Core
  • ASUS ROG STRIX B360-H GAMING, Intel B360 Chipset
  • 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 2666MHz
  • 11GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti BLACK EDITION
  • 1TB Intel 660p M.2 SSD
  • Microsoft Windows 10 64bit & 3 Year Premium Warranty
 
rob-nikon said:
I know I could get more bang for buck going PC but it’s the longevity that would concern me. I’m not the most knowledgeable PC user and every PC I’ve had has slowed down quite a bit, probably because I didn’t not know how to properly maintain them. I don’t think I have the knowledge or experience to be able to build a PC from components. That’s probably where the biggest saving is made.
Click to expand...

Mac=PC as far as components go, since they all use fundamentally identical hardware. Windows is MUCH better than it used to be, and doesn't slow down like it used to. Macs also slow over time, needing a fresh install about every 18 months to keep speed up, but both Apple and Microsoft do this regularly, each time they do a major system update, so it's a non-issue even for a novice user.

Good hardware lasts a long time - ignoring the usual occasional failure - and it's usually 'landfill' grade stuff that becomes unusable after just a couple of years (actually it usually sucks even when new, but most people can't afford to throw it away at 2 weeks old!).
 
£600 cheaper than the second mac, much better spec, and £600 tp spend on a monitor :)
  • Intel Core i9 9900K Eight Core with HT
  • Professionally overclocked up to 4.9GHz
  • ASUS ROG STRIX Z390-F GAMING, Intel Z390 Chipset
  • 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3000MHz
  • 8GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK EDITION
  • 500GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD & 2TB HDD
  • Microsoft Windows 10 64bit & 3 Year Premium Warranty


in terms of spec the macs can be upto a grand more expensive for like with like components !!!
 
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Studio488commercial said:
£600 cheaper than the second mac, much better spec, and £600 tp spend on a monitor :)
  • Intel Core i9 9900K Eight Core with HT
  • Professionally overclocked up to 4.9GHz
  • ASUS ROG STRIX Z390-F GAMING, Intel Z390 Chipset
  • 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3000MHz
  • 8GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK EDITION
  • 500GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD & 2TB HDD
  • Microsoft Windows 10 64bit & 3 Year Premium Warranty


in terms of spec the macs can be upto a grand more expensive for like with like components !!!
Click to expand...
It this a built PC or just components? I’d have to get a pre built PC as I don’t have the skill/knowledge/experience to build one myself.
 
Hi Rob,

I;m pretty sure the ram is the only user upgradable component, I use a superfast exteral ssd as well.

Have a look at some reviews, it's a great tool for photographers with plenty of upgrade options via the Thunderbolt 3 ports.

Dougie.
 
Even though the ‘top end’ macs are..... well.... top end only in price. Those specifications are weak even the i9 chip is a weaker laptop component that will overheat and throttle compared to its desktop counterpart.

That said from reading Robs comments I think it’s clear a Mac would be better suited and I would choose as somebody else said the best you can afford.
 
I’m in a similar position, albeit with an even older iMac to replace.
I looked at the Mac Mini, which is well specced, but when you try finding a monitor that matches the iMac’s screen’s spec it starts to get more expensive. The same goes for a MacBook Pro, except it is more expensive to start with! So I keep coming back to the iMac.

The main thing putting me of buying one now is the lack of T2 security chip - I wonder if that will be a line in the sand for future OS updates. As it stands I am probably going to buy a new iMac when they are announced.

With regards to spec, I’m interested to know if Lightroom needs more cores or a faster processor speed?
 
Snapper67 said:
Why not a Mac mini ?

I bought one last year and it's performance is exceptional. £1609 for a 512 GB SSD, 16gb Ram. Fastest Processor available.

Dougie.
Click to expand...

+1 for this option. It’s what I did last year moving on from about 10 year old iMac. I upgraded the RAM and performance for LR etc has been good.
 
rob-nikon said:
That is an option. I don’t know much about the Mac mini, is the RAM user upgradeable? It would still need a screen.
Click to expand...

On the one I got last year RAM was user upgradeable. Only tricky thing is you need a torx security screwdriver (torx with a hole in it) and that took a few day to find.
 
Craikeybaby said:
I’m in a similar position, albeit with an even older iMac to replace.
I looked at the Mac Mini, which is well specced, but when you try finding a monitor that matches the iMac’s screen’s spec it starts to get more expensive. The same goes for a MacBook Pro, except it is more expensive to start with! So I keep coming back to the iMac.

The main thing putting me of buying one now is the lack of T2 security chip - I wonder if that will be a line in the sand for future OS updates. As it stands I am probably going to buy a new iMac when they are announced.

With regards to spec, I’m interested to know if Lightroom needs more cores or a faster processor speed?
Click to expand...

Regarding screen I’ve got a preowned Eizo screen with the Mac mini and very happy with the color that produces. Side by side against the iMac screen was a very noticeable difference.
 
I’ve had a look at the Mac mini and I think I’d have to discount it as it only has two USB ports and no SD card slot. Currently I use all 4 USB ports on my iMac (though that could be only 3 as I’d discount the external SSD being used as a boot drive). I currently use a graphic tablet, loupedeck and sometimes an iPad running duet as a second screen. I’d also need a separate SD card device with a Mac mini.

One of the benefits with Apple is the screen and single form. If I’m considering a Mac mini then it makes sense to consider a PC too. I can definitely see there is a benefit to going with a PC. There would be no interface issues such as lacking USB ports. My only consideration would be whether a thunderbolt 2 interface card could be installed and be compatible with the PC as I’d like to keep my current thunderbolt external RAID Drive (and maybe the external portable hard drive hub). I wouldn't need my current working drive for RAW storage as I could ensure there’s a large enough SSD and hard drive storage internally.
 

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rob-nikon said:
I’ve had a look at the Mac mini and I think I’d have to discount it as it only has two USB ports and no SD card slot. Currently I use all 4 USB ports on my iMac (though that could be only 3 as I’d discount the external SSD being used as a boot drive). I currently use a graphic tablet, loupedeck and sometimes an iPad running duet as a second screen. I’d also need a separate SD card device with a Mac mini.

One of the benefits with Apple is the screen and single form. If I’m considering a Mac mini then it makes sense to consider a PC too. I can definitely see there is a benefit to going with a PC. There would be no interface issues such as lacking USB ports. My only consideration would be whether a thunderbolt 2 interface card could be installed and be compatible with the PC as I’d like to keep my current thunderbolt external RAID Drive (and maybe the external portable hard drive hub). I wouldn't need my current working drive for RAW storage as I could ensure there’s a large enough SSD and hard drive storage internally.
Click to expand...
IIRC it actually has two USB 3 ports and 4 USB-C ports. You can easily get USB-C to USB 3 adapter. Not to mention you can get adapter for a bunch of other stuff too. USB-C is very versatile.
You could also buy a decent USB hub for a tenner these days.

It's really a non-issue. Very tempted by that Mac mini myself. Fancy buying my iMac so I can buy the mini? :D
It even has thunderbolt 2 ports ;)
 
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nandbytes said:
IIRC it actually has two USB 3 ports and 4 USB-C ports. You can easily get USB-C to USB 3 adapter. Not to mention you can get adapter for a bunch of other stuff too. USB-C is very versatile.
You could also buy a decent USB hub for a tenner these days.

It's really a non-issue. Very tempted by that Mac mini myself. Fancy buying my iMac so I can buy the mini? :D
It even has thunderbolt 2 ports ;)
Click to expand...
That is true I could use adapters.
 
I use adapters on mine. I use 2 of the thunderbolt ports as usb 3.0 with adapters. Works fine
 
rob-nikon said:
That is true I could use adapters.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Well having slept over it I'll be selling my iMac too :)
Ticks all your boxes, 512GB SDD, 16GB RAM and a processor that works well even with my A7RIV RAW files in LR. As far as I remember I got near top of the range processor and graphics too. Can get back to you on these if you are interested.
Has 4 standard USB ports and 2 lightning 2 ports.
Late 2015 5K 27" model bought very early 2017 from official refurb shop IIRC. So pretty much exactly 3 years old. Still have the original box somewhere. Comes with second rechargeable version of track pad and keyboard.

I'd like to buy that Mac mini myself.
If that interests you let me know :)
 
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nandbytes said:
Indeed.

Well having slept over it I'll be selling my iMac too :)
Ticks all your boxes, 512GB SDD, 16GB RAM and a processor that works well even with my A7RIV RAW files in LR. As far as I remember I got near top of the range processor and graphics too. Can get back to you on these if you are interested.
Has 4 standard USB ports and 2 lightning 2 ports.
Late 2015 5K 27" model bought very early 2017 from official refurb shop IIRC. So pretty much exactly 3 years old. Still have the original box somewhere. Comes with second rechargeable version of track pad and keyboard.

I'd like to buy that Mac mini myself.
If that interests you let me know :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the offer but I’ll have to pass as I’m not in a position to purchase at present. I’m probably going to wait until towards the end of the year to see if apple do anything with the iMac before making any decision.
 
rob-nikon said:
I know I could get more bang for buck going PC but it’s the longevity that would concern me. I’m not the most knowledgeable PC user and every PC I’ve had has slowed down quite a bit, probably because I didn’t not know how to properly maintain them. I don’t think I have the knowledge or experience to be able to build a PC from components. That’s probably where the biggest saving is made.
Click to expand...

All you have to do is get the computer back to like when it was new.
So re-install the operating system and don't keep any of the old information. ( a clean re-install )
All that should be on the hard drive is the newly installed operating system only.
It will run as fast as the day you bought it.
That is because the slowing down you experience is not the hardware, it is from a build up of junk on the hard drive ( usually from internet usage )
I know because I have done it dozens of times and every time they run like new no matter what age they are ( 20 year old ones I have done and run just like new again )
 
Caerus said:
All you have to do is get the computer back to like when it was new.
So re-install the operating system and don't keep any of the old information. ( a clean re-install )
All that should be on the hard drive is the newly installed operating system only.
It will run as fast as the day you bought it.
That is because the slowing down you experience is not the hardware, it is from a build up of junk on the hard drive ( usually from internet usage )
I know because I have done it dozens of times and every time they run like new no matter what age they are ( 20 year old ones I have done and run just like new again )
Click to expand...
I’m tempted to do a clean install of the latest OS on my current iMac.

There isn’t a huge amount of stuff on it but it would be great to properly set it up so the external SSD is used just for the OS/applications and the internal hard drive for storage.
 
rob-nikon said:
I’m tempted to do a clean install of the latest OS on my current iMac.

There isn’t a huge amount of stuff on it but it would be great to properly set it up so the external SSD is used just for the OS/applications and the internal hard drive for storage.
Click to expand...
Can’t hurt to try.
 
Caerus said:
All you have to do is get the computer back to like when it was new.
So re-install the operating system and don't keep any of the old information. ( a clean re-install )
All that should be on the hard drive is the newly installed operating system only.
It will run as fast as the day you bought it.
That is because the slowing down you experience is not the hardware, it is from a build up of junk on the hard drive ( usually from internet usage )
I know because I have done it dozens of times and every time they run like new no matter what age they are ( 20 year old ones I have done and run just like new again )
Click to expand...

Kind of, as apps (incl OS) get more complex via updates they demand better hardware. So there will be a noticeable slowdown over years, unless sticking to the same software versions originally installed.

A clean install is also imo a decent start and keeping the SSD free for only boot drive and apps. If its still to slow, then its time to move on.
 
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