j peg or raw

[FirebrandNIRE]

RAW gives more control over the images in PP, whereas JPEG an already Compressed and half cooked image can only be adjusted to a certain degree, and whereas the RAW file is the uncooked unprocessed digital negative and containing all the original settings which cannot be overwritten. Why would any photographer want to disregard all this vital information ?

Even once the RAW file has been processed it can be exported to other formats other than a Jpeg, given the user the luxury of returning to that original raw negative for further enhancing or further post processing.

I'm FirebrandNIRE and I'm an Nikon RAW shooter

Happy New Year to all btw...

 

[hollis_f]

It is always possible to process a raw file to exactly duplicate the jpeg that the camera would have produced.
Unless the in-camera settings were exactly optimal it is always possible to process a raw file to produce a superior image to the jpeg that the camera would have produced.
If the in-camera settings were near optimal then the improvements in a raw-processed image may be too small to be easily discernible.

Personally, I never get every setting perfect every time. The day I do is the day I stop shooting raw and switch to jpeg. And the first image I shall take will be of squadrons of piggies flying over the boiling seas of Hell.

 

[hollis_f]

And you can recover as much with JPEG as I could with a RAW file? I dont believe that for one minute

No, nor do I. Indeed, I can't find anybody on this thread that has said that they do believe it.

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

The JPEG format is a great image format in many situations, but it is a compressed format nonetheless, and it is therefore impossible for any compressed image to retain the the same information as the RAW file, because a large portion of that information has been discarded during the compression.

To say that you don't need to make pp adjustments to your images is ludicrous, and the best file to use for this process should always be your digital negative not a compressed image, that just makes no sense to me.

It's like working in Photoshop and instead of referring back to the Original PSD file you try to adjust the JPEG or GIF files instead, and we all know where most of those images end up.

At the end of the day it's each to their own

 

[hollis_f]

The JPEG format is a great image format in many situations, but it is a compressed format nonetheless, and it is therefore impossible for any compressed image to retain the the same information as the RAW file

Er, you do know that Canon raw files are compressed? But they use lossless compression which discards zero information, unlike the lossy compression that jpeg uses.

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

Er, you do know that Canon raw files are compressed? But they use lossless compression which discards zero information, unlike the lossy compression that jpeg uses.

Nope didn't know that, haven't used Canon at all yet.

 

[macvisual]

Been into digital photography for only ten months, been shooting everything in hi-res j-peg as I don't have enough editing knowledge to manipulate raw files etc.

I'm quite happy with hi-res j-peg images, works for me!

What I don't get is if you shoot in raw, you need to work on any adjustments, then save it back into a j-peg again, strange...? Does this not take up a lot more time/effort/experience?

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

What I don't get is if you shoot in raw, you need to work on any adjustments, then save it back into a j-peg again, strange...? Does this not take up a lot more time/effort/experience?

Better results call for harder work

 

[Jem]

Takes more time like with anything else if you want something done better you got to spend the time.

 

[macvisual]

I agree with you ok, but if you don't own an editing programme or have N.I.L. knowledge why shoot raw?

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

I agree with you ok, but if you don't own an editing programme or have N.I.L. knowledge why shoot raw?

Like anything else if your serious you buy the software.
Although You usually get software bundled with your dslr I think.

 

[hollis_f]

Been into digital photography for only ten months, been shooting everything in hi-res j-peg as I don't have enough editing knowledge to manipulate raw files etc.

I'm quite happy with hi-res j-peg images, works for me!

What I don't get is if you shoot in raw, you need to work on any adjustments, then save it back into a j-peg again, strange...? Does this not take up a lot more time/effort/experience?

Most people will do some post-processing work on jpeg images, because it's nearly always possible to improve an image by doing so. Most people, for example, would agree that sharpening is something best done by a powerful processor, like we have in our computers, not some stupid thing stuck in a camera. If you're doing it anyway then there's little, or no, extra work involved with processing raw.

 

[AndyB1976]

Been into digital photography for only ten months, been shooting everything in hi-res j-peg as I don't have enough editing knowledge to manipulate raw files etc.

I'm quite happy with hi-res j-peg images, works for me!

I'd say its still worth shooting RAW + Jpeg, as you may wish to return to a shot in the future once your RAW processing knowledge has improved.

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

RAW my be intimidating at first, but you have to persevere.
It's like getting your DSLR out of Automatic mode which sucks and keeping it in Full Manual Mode which is we're you wanna be at with your camera, You tell the camera what to do, don't let the camera make the decisions.

I've been shooting for about 2 years now and I swore That when I got my DSLR that I would never use it in auto mode but would also keep it in manual mode, and that decision was the best one, because what is the point in buying an expensive camera just to shoot in Automatic? You may as well shoot with a toaster.

Rant over

 

[HoppyUK]

RAW my be intimidating at first, but you have to persevere.
It's like getting your DSLR out of Automatic mode which sucks and keeping it in Full Manual Mode which is we're you wanna be at with your camera, You tell the camera what to do, don't let the camera make the decisions.

I've been shooting for about 2 years now and I swore That when I got my DSLR that I would never use it in auto mode but would also keep it in manual mode, and that decision was the best one, because what is the point in buying an expensive camera just to shoot in Automatic? You may as well shoot with a toaster.

Rant over

Interesting concept.

 

[Dblock]

This seems to be the only topic on here discussed. Every 2 -4 weeks someone asks this and everyone agrues lol. Its up to you what you want to use.

 

[On the Huh]

Originally Posted by FirebrandNIRE
RAW my be intimidating at first, but you have to persevere.
It's like getting your DSLR out of Automatic mode which sucks and keeping it in Full Manual Mode which is we're you wanna be at with your camera, You tell the camera what to do, don't let the camera make the decisions.

I've been shooting for about 2 years now and I swore That when I got my DSLR that I would never use it in auto mode but would also keep it in manual mode, and that decision was the best one, because what is the point in buying an expensive camera just to shoot in Automatic? You may as well shoot with a toaster.

Interesting concept.

But full of BS. Full auto may not shoot the pic you want, but under semi auto modes you quite often have enough control to get what you want, and while I agree Manual is great, esp when in the same light, it's not the all and end all.
Anyway, choosing jpeg and Raw is a totally different decision to me then choosing what mode I choose to shoot.

 

[HoppyUK]

It's interesting because Firebrand claims to have never used auto.

And by using exposure compensation and programme shift, you can get any combination of settings you want in any mode. In fact, using one of those controls to adjust the camera actually puts you in more control than simply using M and lining up the needles.

They're all just different ways of doing the same thing - getting the exposure right, with the combination of camera settings that you want. It's foolish to be so unilateral about it. Same as Raw vs JPEG.

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

Can't you guys not follow a conversation without getting bitchy?
The comparison between the raw vs jpeg and the auto vs raw thing was to do with having FULL CONTROL.
If that is all BS to you guys you obviously haven't got a clue.

To even suggest Auto Mode can get any where near close to having full control over your camera whilst in Full manual is incredibly arrogant, the same is true whilst using RAW.

Even semi auto modes do not get full control, what is so dumb about that " hence the names ,Semi and Auto" they are not full control options.

Like most of these forums, it gets quite pathetic when a mans opinion has to be denigrated with that of primary school mentality, instead of actually helping with something more constructive that bad manners and personal attacks, I think most would agree with me on this also.

 

[straycat]

NIKON

i shoot on A priority
spot metering
auto white balance [except when doing IR or if red lights at a concert i use monochrome]
j peg fine
jpeg compression optimal quality
picture control neutral
hi iso NR on
everything else is off


i adjust exposure using exposure compensation [set so i can reset it quickly by turning the camera of then on again].

for birds i set it at F8 and it stays there,if it gets dull i open the lens fully.
over the years i have worked out the settings that work for me.


i use photoshop guided as i find it quick and easy

if i have photos from concerts or poor light this is what i do

first i crop
adjust contrast
brightnest a touch either way
lighten shadows maybe to 1 on the scale
darken highlights usually 5 to 10
colours saturation maybe a touch
sharpen i use auto then manualy plus a bit more to get it right

at festivals in good light using say my 70-200 say i may only need to sharpen and crop

the point is with all these settings i have worked out with trial and error what works for me.

when i am asked as i am many times at concerts how to do it.
i tell people listen to every one,no one is exactley right,then do it as it works for you.

more than one way to skin a cat


no one asks if you shoot RAW they look at the image you produce.

 

[straycat]

this one wasnt perfect what with a fast moving group strobes straight into the lens etc.

i did what i could with my JPEG these are quick edits

 

[DemiLion]

Can't you guys not follow a conversation without getting bitchy?
The comparison between the raw vs jpeg and the auto vs raw thing was to do with having FULL CONTROL.
If that is all BS to you guys you obviously haven't got a clue.

To even suggest Auto Mode can get any where near close to having full control over your camera whilst in Full manual is incredibly arrogant, the same is true whilst using RAW.

Even semi auto modes do not get full control, what is so dumb about that " hence the names ,Semi and Auto" they are not full control options.

Like most of these forums, it gets quite pathetic when a mans opinion has to be denigrated with that of primary school mentality, instead of actually helping with something more constructive that bad manners and personal attacks, I think most would agree with me on this also.

With all due respect, if you don't have the knowledge to fully control your camera in at least aperture priority mode (note; control, not lock), then I'd suggest that it's you that has some more learning to do.

Likewise your insistence on using RAW for everything again indicates a fairly limited knowledge, or at least limited capacity to understand other situations.

One of the first things that I was taught in photography is that there is no single way to achieve your aim, and that if anyone insists that there is "only one right way to achieve something", then generally that person is wrong.

QV:

Jpeg is fine for the novice hobby happy snapper, but for serious post pro Photographer then RAW is the way to go...

...which is complete rubbish!

 

[straycat]

One of the first things that I was taught in photography is that there is no single way to achieve your aim, and that if anyone insists that there is "only one right way to achieve something", then generally that person is wrong.

agreed that was what i tried to say as well

 

[AndyB1976]

Knowing when to use a given camera mode and file format to obtain the best results from the least effort by the operator is the correct method to shoot.

There is no badge of honour in shooting M Av Tv P A in RAW or Jpeg particularly. Any combination of these can be correct for one assignment and wrong for the next.

 

[Phil V]

Many pro photographers shoot JPEG with all of their processing set within camera to achieve their objectives. That minimises the amount of work they need to do, therefore maximising profitability. If that makes them unprofessional, then professional doesn't mean what I thought it did.

As for Manual vs Semi Auto or even P, please don't tell me that if I compose a scene where I want to use an aperture of f4 and an ISO of 400, that if I have assessed the light and either locked my exp to give me 1/200 or set exp comp to give 1/200 that I'll get an inferior result to shooting Manual with an aperture of F4, ISO of 400 and a shutter speed of 1/200?

Because as far as I can see whether those settings are chosen in M, AV, TV or P (with or without program shift) then I'll get the same picture. Am I wrong?

The point isn't whether we shoot in RAW or JPEG, Manual or Aperture Priority, it's that we understand what we're doing and why we've chosen to do it that way.

For new shooters I'd recommend JPEG, because there are enough variables involved getting a competent shot out of the camera without the added ability to completely wreck it during RAW conversion.

 

[ernesto]

Also need to bear in mind that dependant of the camera software the JPEG may come out just as desired and exactly how a RAW file would look after manipulation. I use a Black and White setting that delivers images pretty much exactly as I want them and it's great to just take shots knowing that PP will be non-existent/very minimal and can just be done straight off in iPhoto.

Minor adjustments are fine in JPEG but did a test yesterday. Took a shot with very badly blown sky. JPEG could not be fixed at all, RAW could get me some detail back. Still threw the image away as couldn't be fixed to a good enough level but proved the point that RAW does enable more fixing. Of course I should have avoided the blown sky in the first place...

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

With all due respect, if you don't have the knowledge to fully control your camera in at least aperture priority mode (note; control, not lock), then I'd suggest that it's you that has some more learning to do.

I have full control in full Manual, that's the whole point, to have full camera control.

Also I said in an earlier post that peg is a greet format in many situations, if you'd only care to read my posts and not misconstrue what I'm saying by quoting stuff out of context.



With all respect

 

[straycat]

Knowing when to use a given camera mode and file format to obtain the best results from the least effort by the operator is the correct method to shoot.

There is no badge of honour in shooting M Av Tv P A in RAW or Jpeg particularly. Any combination of these can be correct for one assignment and wrong for the next.

true well put

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

The difference between JPEG & RAW is the difference between a good image and a fantastic image, good quality and optimum quality.

Like I said each to their own

 

[straycat]

The difference between JPEG & RAW is the difference between a good image and a fantastic image, good quality and optimum quality.

Like I said each to their own

yes all my pictures are rubbish thats why i have so many published and others used in a film,not to mention the commisions i have turned down on the strength of what ive done.

tell me when you look at a pic do you go thats raw oh and that ones definetley jpeg.

its not the format its how you use it

 

[DemiLion]

The difference between JPEG & RAW is the difference between a good image and a fantastic image, good quality and optimum quality.

Like I said each to their own

I would humbly suggest that you haven't got the faintest idea of what you are talking about!

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

I would humbly suggest that you haven't got the faintest idea of what you are talking about!

And I would humbly suggest other wise.

 

[HoppyUK]

The difference between JPEG & RAW is the difference between a good image and a fantastic image, good quality and optimum quality.

Like I said each to their own

The problem is, that's not what you said.

You said quite categorically that Raw was always the way to go and that manual was the only mode to give you control.

Don't be surprised when people jump on you for that.

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

The problem is, that's not what you said.

You said quite categorically that Raw was always the way to go and that manual was the only mode to give you control.

Don't be surprised when people jump on you for that.

I said RAW is the way to go not the only way to go, I also said that jpeg is great in many situations.
Which part are you unsure about ?

Regards

 

[hollis_f]

I have full control in full Manual, that's the whole point, to have full camera control.

What I, and others, disagree with is your assertion that using 'M' mode is the only way to have full control. However, everybody (even my dog) knows that there is nothing you can do in 'M' that cannot also be done in 'Av' or 'Tc' with some 'EC'.

 

[FirebrandNIRE]

What I, and others, disagree with is your assertion that using 'M' mode is the only way to have full control. However, everybody (even my dog) knows that there is nothing you can do in 'M' that cannot also be done in 'Av' or 'Tc' with some 'EC'.

Your completely missing my point.

Listen in a semi mode that means that you control some settings whilst the camera not you determines the rest. Having the camera choose some and you the rest, is logically speaking is not being in full manual control of all the settings, What is so hard to understand?

 

[DemiLion]

Your completely missing my point.

Listen in a semi mode that means that you control some settings whilst the camera not you determines the rest. Having the camera choose some and you the rest, is logically speaking is not being in full manual control of all the settings, What is so hard to understand?

You have a semi valid point, if and only if, you use a light meter separate to that in the camera.
If you use the camera meter then your points are largely irrelevant, because all you are achieving by using the manual mode is locking down the exposure - which you could do on a shot by shot basis with exposure lock anyway.

 

[Phil V]

Your completely missing my point.

Listen in a semi mode that means that you control some settings whilst the camera not you determines the rest. Having the camera choose some and you the rest, is logically speaking is not being in full manual control of all the settings, What is so hard to understand?

It's not hard to understand, however it's not at all important. Being in full Manual control is not the same thing as being in control, in fact it may be the opposite;

What light are you metering? How have you determined what metering mode to use? Are you trusting the camera meter or using knowledge to interpret it's reading? Are you using a handheld meter instead, if so is it incident or a reflected reading, if reflected is it spot? If it's a spot meter how have you ensured you're reading the correct part of the scene?

If all you are doing is centring your camera meter in Manual mode by using the shutterspeed and aperture controls, then you're conning yourself that you're in any sort of control. You're letting the camera tell you what the 'correct' EV is and then slavishly following that information.

However by reading the scene and locking exposure in AV or using exposure compensation I'm in full control of the picture even though I've allowed the camera to pick a suitable shutter speed.

When I press the button on my TV remote control to watch BBC1, I have controlled the TV set, I don't need to retune it manually every time in order to prove that I know how to use it. I have made it do what I want it to with a minimum of work.

My camera has many controls, I choose to use some of them sometimes and others at other times, lots of them are never used because I can see no use for them. But if someone else finds them useful they're not wrong.

 

[straycat]

i you want total contol then you need to be ansel adams


A photograph is usually looked at - seldom looked into.
Ansel Adams


A true photograph need not be explained, nor can it be contained in words.
Ansel Adams


Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships.
Ansel Adams

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
Ansel Adams

There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept.
Ansel Adams


he has so many that ring true.

 

[petersmart]

I used to shoot in RAW all the time but now shoot in JPEG about 99% of the time.

I have the Canon 1Ds MkII bought for the simple reason that I often shoot at high ISO (3200) and the 1Ds MkII gave better resolution at 3200 ISO than the 5D II and others I looked at (or could afford)

I shoot with in camera NR turned off and the sharpness turned to 0 to minimise noise.

I also shoot with contrast turned down and saturation set to mid,low.

I find that with those parameters I can produce pictures with almost no noise using Neat Image.

And unlike many people assert on here it IS possible to adjust many of the parameters of JPEG including sharpness, WB, contrast, colour saturation on my computer.

And JPEG also takes up less space and permits many more shots on continuous shooting than RAW.

.