James Webb Telescope

Norkie

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Hi guys, in relation to the earth, where will the James Webb Telescope be in the sky?

I'm guessing it will be above the North Pole?

And, for that matter, where is Hubble?

Many thanks if you can help :)
 
The HST is in low Earth orbit ie it orbits between the Earth and Moon. 570 km up, actually. JWST will be at Lagrange Point 2. A Lagrange point is where something sent up from Earth will stay put. There are 5 and they are where the gravitational effects of Sun and Earth balance the centripetal pull an object (spacecraft) needs to stay there. L1, 2 and 3 are considered unstable ie periodic corrections of a craft's [ositions are necessary. L2 and L3 have an uninterrupted view of space but 3 is the other side of the Sun. 4 and 5 are stable points but further away than 1 and 2, communication, access etc is more difficult. 1 is betwee Earth and Sun and is where SOHO is. Planck was at L2 along with others before it. From L2 much of the Sun's heat is blocked by Earth and since JWST will operate in the infrared it needs to be as cool as possible. It'll be 1.5 million km up, so just slightly further away than Hubble.......
So in answer to your 2nd question - no, not above the North Pole.
Hope that helps
Have a read about JWST on the NASA site. It explains it a lot better than I just did.
 
Many thanks Jan, you've explained to very well for me, fascinating stuff :)

Many years ago a shuttle service mission was launched to the HST, I suspect that would not be possible with JWST being so distant? (Even if we had a shuttle!)

I'm looking forward to the launch on Friday.
 
This launch and the new knowledge that will be forthcoming is fantastic. I found this aspect interesting. NASA has put the question of 'gods' and creation to 24 religious experts and included is Rev Dr Andrew Davison from the UK. He has a doctorate, from Oxford , in biochemistry.

I wondered why they would think it was something that they should be considering.https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-priest-advise-nasa-what-25769624

I've just posted this for information only. No replies re religion, please. I just find it intriguing.
 
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Fabulous to view the launch. I wonder if there is an on board camera on the JWST? Much like the views from ISS.
 
Interesting FAQs list. https://jwst.nasa.gov/content/about/faqs/faq.html

It will be 6 months before images and data will be received by scientists.


Norkie said:
Fabulous to view the launch. I wonder if there is an on board camera on the JWST? Much like the views from ISS.
Click to expand...

I read that no optical cameras are on board. The cameras on it will only collect infra-red light and reveal the beginings of the Universe 13.7 billion years ago. Hard to take in, really.

I just think we're really lucky to be living in this time . I wondered how long it will be operational . Hubble is still operating after the latest glitch for 31 years but this article states that for the JW telescope it will be about 10 years. This means that the oldies...:) on here will very likely get to know the answer to some of the age- old questions. Galileo Galilei was part of a group of astronomers who got together to develop a crude Dutch invention to produce the first 'proper' telescope in 1609, so that's just 412 years to what we have today in the James Webb telescope not to mention the quality land -based observatories around the world.

www.forbes.com

Why NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope Will Never Live As Long As Hubble

Hubble's still going strong after 31+ years. James Webb will never make it that long.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
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So many things to go wrong but at least it's up there now so the 'heavy lifting' is done.

I have a canvas print of the Hubble Deep Field on my wall here at home, I look at it and think -- if there were gods this where they would dwell.
 
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JohnC6 said:
This means that the oldies...:) on here will very likely get to know the answer to some of the age- old questions.
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Frankly, I doubt that.

It strikes me as hubris to think that we "know" much about the universe. We don't even know that much about the world we inhabit. Someone on the BBC World Service recently claimed that less than 5% of the ocean floors have been charted.

:tumbleweed:
 
Countless trillions spent on space exploration yet the global leaders can't agree on saving the only habitable planet :thinking:
 
F1.2 said:
Countless trillions spent on space exploration yet the global leaders can't agree on saving the only habitable planet :thinking:
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It only takes a few people to decide on a space project, it takes the whole world to decide to save itself and many people and countries have little interest except more power and money. While there are people in charge that have no regard for the planet we might as well spend our time before global annihilation looking at the stars.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Frankly, I doubt that.

It strikes me as hubris to think that we "know" much about the universe. We don't even know that much about the world we inhabit. Someone on the BBC World Service recently claimed that less than 5% of the ocean floors have been charted.

:tumbleweed:
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I'm not quite sure why you've written that first sentence. I suspect I've misunderstood you. Who is saying that 'we think we know much' about the Universe ? You've put 'know' in parentheses .What are you conveying by doing that ? The JW telescope was designed to add to our very limited knowledge. It's addressing some of the issues that Hubble was/is unable to . I read that we know only about 5% of the Universe but I can't see how anyone can claim that when we don't know the sum of knowledge there is to be learnt. I don't doubt that scientists will have some hitherto 'facts' turned on their heads and text books will have to be re-written..

This article sets out what Hubble discovered and what answers to particular questions it provided and also what questions it can't answer. It goes on to set out what of those unanswered question and more besides that the JW telescope will provide answers to.


www.forbes.com

How NASA's James Webb Space Telescope Will Answer Astronomy's Biggest Questions

A live event with an expert live-blog commentary, NASA's new space telescope will tell us where we came from, how we got here, and even whether we're not alone!
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

I take your point re our limited knowledge of Earth and I'm aware of that 5% of unexplored ocean floors.
 
:plus1: Distance is a problem in space but given time and technology we may be able to get more information in person than we can now. The major difference between space and the ocean is of course is that in space we are only dealing with holding in one atmosphere of air whereas under the ocean we are trying to keep out a thousand atmospheres of water -- bit more of a job I'm afraid.
 
My concern is that one of the deployments fails and the JWST is unable to work. That would be such a shame.
It's such a complicated piece of equipment, fingers crossed all goes well, I as well as millions of others will be bitterly disappointed if it doesn't.
 
ShinySideUp said:
:plus1: Distance is a problem in space but given time and technology we may be able to get more information in person than we can now. The major difference between space and the ocean is of course is that in space we are only dealing with holding in one atmosphere of air whereas under the ocean we are trying to keep out a thousand atmospheres of water -- bit more of a job I'm afraid.
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The major difference between space and the ocean is of course is that in space we are only dealing with holding in one atmos

No, the major difference is we can’t destroy what’s ’up there’ before we study it whereas people are queuing up to destroy what’s on the sea bed before we can explore much of it :(.
 
Do we have any idea of when we will know if the deployment is a success or not? I looked on NASA TV earlier but didn’t see anything new.
 
Tulipone said:
Do we have any idea of when we will know if the deployment is a success or not? I looked on NASA TV earlier but didn’t see anything new.
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The whole deployment takes 30 days, but things happen enroute, anyone of those deployments could fail so we won't really know until it reaches L2 and is in stable orbit
 
This link may have already been posted so sorry if it has, but here is the progress of the JWST
www.jwst.nasa.gov

Where Is Webb? NASA/Webb

During Webb's launch, deployment and commissioning, 'WhereIsWebb' tracked Webb's 'flight' to L2 orbit, its state and progress during its deployment and commissioning process, and finally the release of its first images. This process is now complete. During this process, the page constantly...
www.jwst.nasa.gov
 
JohnC6 said:
This launch and the new knowledge that will be forthcoming is fantastic. I found this aspect interesting. NASA has put the question of 'gods' and creation to 24 religious experts and included is Rev Dr Andrew Davison from the UK. He has a doctorate, from Oxford , in biochemistry.

I wondered why they would think it was something that they should be considering.https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-priest-advise-nasa-what-25769624

I've just posted this for information only. No replies re religion, please. I just find it intriguing.
Click to expand...

Well, they hope to be looking back to the beginning of the universe, so it might throw up some interesting philosophical questions. I sometimes think that science and religion are more related than we care to admit.
 
Tulipone said:
Do we have any idea of when we will know if the deployment is a success or not? I looked on NASA TV earlier but didn’t see anything new.
Click to expand...

You might have to wait a while. It's going to take months before they unpack it. Getting there is one thing, but all the work starts then and every system has to be started up one by one.
 
Plain Nev said:
Well, they hope to be looking back to the beginning of the universe
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Perhaps not.

They intend to record images from a distance such that the light left its source at the time when, some theories claim, the Big Bang occurred. I wouldn't be surprised if they found that there were lots of further light sources on their images.
 
Over 20% of the distance to L2 covered already, Over 180700 miles up now which puts the distance to Hubble into context
Despite the distance to L2 I'm sure there will be scientists & engineers working on options to refuel the telescope - Not a cheap option, but a robotic mission will be only a fraction of the cost of the telescope, so if results are good there may be a case for spending a billion to keep it going for a few more decades.
 
sphexx said:
The major difference between space and the ocean is of course is that in space we are only dealing with holding in one atmos

No, the major difference is we can’t destroy what’s ’up there’ before we study it whereas people are queuing up to destroy what’s on the sea bed before we can explore much of it :(.
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If Elon Musk has his way, we'll have destroyed the view of the stars in just a few years after his launch of the last of his 42,000 Starlink satellites and this is before Jeff Bezos' Project Kuiper puts up another 3,236. We can't destroy the Universe but we are having a pretty good attempt at making it invisible and even more inaccessible than it is now. However, if we keep destroying the ocean and the rest of the planet, there will be no one to see it anyway. Assuming Earth doesn't turn into another Venus there may well be something, somewhere that will have a view of the Cosmos in the far future, I just doubt it will be humans.

Earlier today I was looking at the Worldometer website and their portrayal of the increasing population and did a few back of an envelope calculations. As at this moment, there are 7,916,245,700 people on the planet and this number is increasing by around 178 people per minute which means that the population will reach 8 billion in just over one year. It is also interesting to note that the 5.4 million or so people who have died of COVID will have delayed the reaching of that momentous figure by just 21 days, a sobering thought.

Go to space/don't go to space, save the oceans/don't save the oceans, in the end (which may be sooner than we think and hope) it doesn't really matter.
 
ShinySideUp said:
As at this moment, there are 7,916,245,700 people on the planet and this number is increasing by around 178 people per minute which means that the population will reach 8 billion in just over one year.
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Though last time I read anything about this, the rate of increase has slowed very considerably everywhere :).
 
sphexx said:
Though last time I read anything about this, the rate of increase has slowed very considerably everywhere :).
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The more wealth we can spread around, the fewer babies will be born. Current figures suggest that, as distributed wealth increased in the 20th century, the rate of increase in population dropped. It reached its high point of 2.2% per year at the end of the 1960s and had dropped to 1.2% per year by 2010. If the trend continues, the rate of increase will have dropped to 0.4% per year by 2050.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The more wealth we can spread around, the fewer babies will be born. Current figures suggest that, as distributed wealth increased in the 20th century, the rate of increase in population dropped. It reached its high point of 2.2% per year at the end of the 1960s and had dropped to 1.2% per year by 2010. If the trend continues, the rate of increase will have dropped to 0.4% per year by 2050.
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True, & more ‘freedom’ to women in some societies.

OT but I was very impressed some years ago to read that the best way to cut down child labour in Asia was to provide free school meals — fairly obvious once you know!
 
wornish said:
This thread seems to be going off-topic a bit IMHO.
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It might be appropriate — do we know if the rocket is still on course? :LOL:
 
sphexx said:
It might be appropriate — do we know if the rocket is still on course? :LOL:
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Sorry but I don't think this is a "let's fix the world's problems" thread that's all I am saying.

This is a Night Time and Astro Photo thread and the link posted above gives a great real-time updates on progress.
Everything so far seems to be on track.

James Webb NASA
 
wornish said:
Sorry but I don't think this is a "let's fix the world's problems" thread that's all I am saying.

This is a Night Time and Astro Photo thread and the link posted above gives a great real-time updates on progress.
Everything so far seems to be on track.

James Webb NASA
Click to expand...

Just about crossing the Moon's orbit now.

I was really confused at first as the velocity indication said [I thought] 0.73m/s; at just over half a mile an hour it is going to take rather a long time!
Anyway, I've caught up and still find myself baffled with the American measurement system as I was expecting Kms per second or per hour. The launch video on Youtube was shown in Kms/s because it is a French rocket and yet now the NASA site shows the speed in miles per second. The fuel load was indicated in tonnes but some American sites put it it in pounds. It's a wonder anything fits together in the first place let alone get off the ground. Fortunately the scientific community seems to agree on a pure metric system and let's the PR people do what they feel necessary.

I do hope all the deployments go to plan, there is so much to go wrong.
 
Yes, we are approaching the sun shield deployment now, fingers crossed!
You can switch between imperial and metric on the JWST website by the way. :)
 
wornish said:
Sorry but I don't think this is a "let's fix the world's problems" thread that's all I am saying.
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Hey, I’m agreeing with you! ;)
 
Not sure if already mentioned or covered.

I was, before the launch, listening to BBC world service program about the JWST and the person being interviewed was asked "is it a replacement for Hubble....".

She made the point that, no it was not a replacement but in addition, as Hubble covers the visible to UV but the Webb is an IR telescope. So in effect completes the gap, in space borne telescopes, light spectrum covered.

However, in regard to other bulletins, I keep hearing that it does replace Hubble :thinking: :banghead:

PS as per @Jannyfox says it's destination is Langrange Point 2, the program I mentioned stated that is 1m miles from earth!
 
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Box Brownie said:
Not sure if already mentioned or covered.

I was, before the launch, listening to BBC world service program about the JWST and the person being interviewed was asked "is it a replacement for Hubble....".

She made the point that, no it was not a replacement but in addition, as Hubble covers the visible to UV but the Webb is an IR telescope. So in effect completes the gap, in space borne telescopes, light spectrum covered.

However, in regard to other bulletins, I keep hearing that it does replace Hubble :thinking: :banghead:

PS as per @Jannyfox says it's destination is Langrange Point 2, the program I mentioned stated that is 1m miles from earth!
Click to expand...

L2 IS about 1 million miles from the Earth (a little under 900, 000 actually). Hubble orbits at about 340 miles. JWST has to be a long way away from any source of infrared radiation hence one of the reasons for the L2 position.

It isn't a replacement for Hubble as they do different jobs. Hubble is expected to continue until the late 2020's in some form (things have already gone wrong) with date of destruction estimated to be some time in the mid to late 2030's when the Earth's atmospheric drag will eventually bring it down. It is possible that a private space organisation might be able to nudge it back up again but don't hold your breath on that one.


This is a very informative video on the telescope Smarter Every Day
 
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Glad to see the temperatures are finally being shown, for some reason the pop-up box on the where is webb page said they'd start displaying 1-2 days after launch, but we got nothing till 5 days in. (They do make far more sense once the sun shield starts to deploy.

Interesting to see its about 45% of the distance in under 1/5 of the time, but I guess climbing out of a gravity well does involve constant decleration & it's vital the JWST doesn't over shoot (it has no breaking rockets).
 
Last stage of the unfurling today, and it’s televised, although that is a simulation, fingers crossed :)
 
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